Trump agreed to pay Kim Jong Un 2 million for torturing American prisoner

[FPP]

North Korea issued $2 million bill for comatose Otto Warmbier’s care

BEIJING — North Korea issued a $2 million bill for the hospital care of
comatose American Otto Warmbier, insisting that a U.S. official sign a
pledge to pay it before being allowed to fly the University of Virginia
student home from Pyongyang in 2017.

The presentation of the invoice — not previously disclosed by U.S. or
North Korean officials — was extraordinarily brazen even for a regime
known for its aggressive tactics.

But the main U.S. envoy sent to retrieve Warmbier signed an agreement to
pay the medical bill on instructions passed down from President Trump,
according to two people familiar with the situation.

Fred Warmbier, Otto’s father, said he was never told about the hospital
bill. He said it sounded like a “ransom” for his son.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/north-korea-issued-2-million-bill-for-comatose-otto-warmbiers-care/2019/04/25/0e8022a0-66ad-11e9-a698-2a8f808c9cfb_story.html?utm_term=.dd5d68cc21fd

So Trump agreed to pay a murderous dictator $2,000,000 for the return of
the broken, maimed comatose American, whose father thinks it was
"ransom" disguised as a "hospital bill".

I seem to remember when Obama returned money to Iran for what they
already paid for (but never received), that was called a "bribe" and
"ransom" by the right wing.

Funny how times change!
--
Trump: "I'm rich." (* but you can't see my taxes.)
"I'm smart." (* but you can't see my grades.)
"I'm totally exonerated." (* but you can't see the report.)

[moviePig]

On 4/26/2019 2:13 AM, FPP wrote:
> North Korea issued $2 million bill for comatose Otto Warmbier’s care
>
> BEIJING — North Korea issued a $2 million bill for the hospital care of
> comatose American Otto Warmbier, insisting that a U.S. official sign a
> pledge to pay it before being allowed to fly the University of Virginia
> student home from Pyongyang in 2017.
>
> The presentation of the invoice — not previously disclosed by U.S. or
> North Korean officials — was extraordinarily brazen even for a regime
> known for its aggressive tactics.
>
> But the main U.S. envoy sent to retrieve Warmbier signed an agreement to
> pay the medical bill on instructions passed down from President Trump,
> according to two people familiar with the situation.
>
> Fred Warmbier, Otto’s father, said he was never told about the hospital
> bill. He said it sounded like a “ransom” for his son.
>
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/north-korea-issued-2-million-bill-for-comatose-otto-warmbiers-care/2019/04/25/0e8022a0-66ad-11e9-a698-2a8f808c9cfb_story.html?utm_term=.dd5d68cc21fd
>
>
> So Trump agreed to pay a murderous dictator $2,000,000 for the return of
> the broken, maimed comatose American, whose father thinks it was
> "ransom" disguised as a "hospital bill".
>
> I seem to remember when Obama returned money to Iran for what they
> already paid for (but never received), that was called a "bribe" and
> "ransom" by the right wing.
>
> Funny how times change!

Sorry, that dilemma seems like a no-winner for anybody, even Trump.

--

- - - - - - - -
YOUR taste at work...
http://www.moviepig.com

[mog...@hotmail.com]

Unless... the media jump all over his opponent. Again.

[Ed Stasiak]

> FPP

>
> So Trump agreed to pay a murderous dictator $2,000,000 for the return
> of the broken, maimed comatose American, whose father thinks it was
> ”ransom" disguised as a "hospital bill".

While Otto Warmbier was an idiot for stealing commie propaganda posters
from a hotel, (which I’m sure the Norks would have given them to him for
free) are you really suggesting he should have been left to die in N.Korea?

> I seem to remember when Obama returned money to Iran for what they
> already paid for (but never received),

Because Iran had become America’s sworn enemy (by their own admission)
after a coup by fundie religious kooks, who then sacked our embassy
and took our people hostage.

> that was called a "bribe" and ”ransom" by the right wing.

I supported the bribe/ransom at the time (which is what it was) but it didn’t
do what Obama had hoped for (lead to an opening of Iranian society) and
instead, was used by government apparatchiks to enrich themselves and
buy weapons while continue to oppress the Iranian people.

[kensi]

On 4/26/2019 2:13 AM, FPP wrote:

> So Trump agreed to pay a murderous dictator $2,000,000 for the return of
> the broken, maimed comatose American, whose father thinks it was
> "ransom" disguised as a "hospital bill".
>
> I seem to remember when Obama returned money to Iran for what they
> already paid for (but never received), that was called a "bribe" and
> "ransom" by the right wing.

And Jimmy Carter did something similar, to similar howls of outrage.
(And the voters limiting him to one term.) I think it was even Iran
again that time.

> Funny how times change!

Scratch a rightard, find a hypocrite. Every single time.

--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate

[thinbl...@gmail.com]

Official US Narrative: Methodist choirboy murdered for defacing communist poster.

Closer to truth: Jewboy with ties to CIA arrested in restricted area suffers brain death after swallowing cyanide pill.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Warmbier#Arrest

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Gross

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Allen_Davis_incident#Diplomatic_status

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ershdb/emergencyresponsecard_29750037.html

[The Horny Goat]

On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 06:18:39 +0200, kensi
<kkensi...@gmail.nospam.invalid> wrote:

>> I seem to remember when Obama returned money to Iran for what they
>> already paid for (but never received), that was called a "bribe" and
>> "ransom" by the right wing.
>
>And Jimmy Carter did something similar, to similar howls of outrage.
>(And the voters limiting him to one term.) I think it was even Iran
>again that time.

Actually Carter was doing fine in the polls during the hostage crisis
until the failure of the rescue attempt.

I never forgave Michelle Obama for promoting Argo at the Academy
awards - Argo was the flick that stole the glory of Ken Taylor and the
Canadian embassy staff who gave sanctuary to American diplomats and
eventually got them safely out of Iran.

While the CIA definitely had a role to play in supporting Taylor and
staff they DIDN'T play a major role which is what Argo falsely
claimed. Shame on the Academy for giving the award to such a piece of
history falsification.

[A Friend]

In article <26kccet234l9qh9jv...@4ax.com>, The Horny Goat

<lcr...@home.ca> wrote:

> On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 06:18:39 +0200, kensi
> <kkensi...@gmail.nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> >> I seem to remember when Obama returned money to Iran for what they
> >> already paid for (but never received), that was called a "bribe" and
> >> "ransom" by the right wing.
> >
> >And Jimmy Carter did something similar, to similar howls of outrage.
> >(And the voters limiting him to one term.) I think it was even Iran
> >again that time.
>
> Actually Carter was doing fine in the polls during the hostage crisis
> until the failure of the rescue attempt.

I think the main reason Carter lost in 1980 was Walter Cronkite's
nightly count of how many days the hostages had been held. He closed
every broadcast with it.

[The Horny Goat]

Well bear in mind that Carter had only won in 1976 52-48 despite the
fact he was facing a Ford who had pardoned Richard Nixon. It would not
have taken much to throw the election to Ford.

In 1980 Carter lost 50-41 (with a third party candidacy from Anderson
- I would argue that nearly all over Anderson's voters would have gone
for Carter if he hadn't run)

However in my opinion the two things that killed Carter were (1) the
failed rescue and (2) the ridicule he got after the Moral Equivalent
of War speech (which was actually quite a good speech but it had the
most unfortunate acronym ever)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tPePpMxJaA

[A Friend]

In article <7f0dced1rcc0946n6...@4ax.com>, The Horny Goat

<lcr...@home.ca> wrote:

> On Sun, 28 Apr 2019 23:13:16 -0400, A Friend <no...@noway.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <26kccet234l9qh9jv...@4ax.com>, The Horny Goat
> ><lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
> >> >And Jimmy Carter did something similar, to similar howls of outrage.
> >> >(And the voters limiting him to one term.) I think it was even Iran
> >> >again that time.
> >>
> >> Actually Carter was doing fine in the polls during the hostage crisis
> >> until the failure of the rescue attempt.
> >
> >I think the main reason Carter lost in 1980 was Walter Cronkite's
> >nightly count of how many days the hostages had been held. He closed
> >every broadcast with it.
>
> Well bear in mind that Carter had only won in 1976 52-48 despite the
> fact he was facing a Ford who had pardoned Richard Nixon. It would not
> have taken much to throw the election to Ford.

The 1976 election was held on November 2, as early as it could possibly
have been, and Ford had been trending strongly upward toward the end.
Another few days might have done it for him.

> In 1980 Carter lost 50-41 (with a third party candidacy from Anderson
> - I would argue that nearly all over Anderson's voters would have gone
> for Carter if he hadn't run)

Even if all of Anderson's voters had come out to vote for Carter
instead, that would have put Carter at only 47.6%. Carter won only DC
and the states of Georgia, Minnesota, West Virginia, Maryland, Rhode
Island and Hawaii. Carter had no path to victory, even with Anderson's
votes.

> However in my opinion the two things that killed Carter were (1) the
> failed rescue and (2) the ridicule he got after the Moral Equivalent
> of War speech (which was actually quite a good speech but it had the
> most unfortunate acronym ever)
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tPePpMxJaA

The failed rescue was bad for Carter, and there was that
hostage-related nonsense about the Christmas tree lighting two years
running, but I still think it was Cronkite's count-up more than
anything else.

[Adam H. Kerman]

You don't think that Carter was just a bad president and incompetant at
politics and was trying to murder anim and others with peanut allergies
had something to do with it?

In foreign relations, Carter fired Cyrus Vance, who was responsible for
the greatest political achievement of Carter's career, peace in the
Middle East between Egypt and Israel, the Camp David Accords in 1978. He
began listening to the evil Zbigniew Brzezinski, who of course created
the conditions in which the Mujahideen that we eventually supported
during the Russian invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 were radicalized by
both the Pakistani and Saudi clerics and would eventually become the
Taliban. Voters in 1980 were not to know that.

Domestically, Carter hated big cities with a passion and eliminated lots
of federal aid that, well, weren't generous, but did help under Ford,
especially aid to public transportation. Carter also tried to kill
Amtrak.

Between reducing aid to cities and the massive recession (which truly
wasn't Carter's fault, probably triggered in part by all that Viet Nam
War debt coming due), the late '70s were a period of both high
unemployment and high inflation, with lots of businesses laying people
off or just going bankrupt.

This created the so-called "Reagan Democrats" who found Reagan's
rhetoric quite appealing, similar to the rhetoric Trump would use
decades later to appeal to disaffected middle class workers. It created
a split in traditional Democratic coalitions, what with a lot of members
of labor unions voting for Reagan and splitting with big city voters.
Hell, I'm surprised Reagan couldn't find a way to appeal to urban black
voters.

Carter also lost support from Southern Baptists, both at the leadership
level and at the level of congregation members. They wrongly assumed
that Carter would allow his religious convictions to guide his legal
support of social policies, but Carter's social policies were largely
secular. It's one of the few things that's admirable about him.

This led to Jerry Falwell endorsing Reagan and very religious Christian
Protestants in the South leaving the Democratic coalition and joining
the Republican coalition. These types that weren't Dixiecrats remained
Democrats after Johnson-era civil rights legislation was passed, or
calmed down after a decade and had voted Democratic again in the 1970s.

There just wasn't too much that Carter did right.

I remember liking John Anderson, who ran as an independent.

[The Horny Goat]

On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 16:07:01 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<a...@chinet.com> wrote:

>This created the so-called "Reagan Democrats" who found Reagan's
>rhetoric quite appealing, similar to the rhetoric Trump would use
>decades later to appeal to disaffected middle class workers. It created
>a split in traditional Democratic coalitions, what with a lot of members
>of labor unions voting for Reagan and splitting with big city voters.
>Hell, I'm surprised Reagan couldn't find a way to appeal to urban black
>voters.

Was wondering when someone was going to mention Reagan in the context
of the genesis of the ideas that led to Trump

>Carter also lost support from Southern Baptists, both at the leadership
>level and at the level of congregation members. They wrongly assumed
>that Carter would allow his religious convictions to guide his legal
>support of social policies, but Carter's social policies were largely
>secular. It's one of the few things that's admirable about him.

He's far from the only religious political leader who kept his
personal views far from his politics - Paul Martin and Stephen Harper
of Canada, Tony Blair of the UK just for starters.

Had Obama kept his views more separate he would have banned Wright who
other than being a long time Obama friend had little to commend him at
all.

>This led to Jerry Falwell endorsing Reagan and very religious Christian
>Protestants in the South leaving the Democratic coalition and joining
>the Republican coalition. These types that weren't Dixiecrats remained
>Democrats after Johnson-era civil rights legislation was passed, or
>calmed down after a decade and had voted Democratic again in the 1970s.

Falwell discredited himself with no help from Carter

>There just wasn't too much that Carter did right.
>
>I remember liking John Anderson, who ran as an independent.

My memory of Anderson pretty much combines the best features of
Sanders and McCain. (I freely admit there is much NOT to like about
those two gentlemen!) Obviously that's a gross over-simplification but
that'll do for a start.

[Adam H. Kerman]

The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:

>Mon, 29 Apr 2019 16:07:01 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com>:

>>This created the so-called "Reagan Democrats" who found Reagan's
>>rhetoric quite appealing, similar to the rhetoric Trump would use
>>decades later to appeal to disaffected middle class workers. It created
>>a split in traditional Democratic coalitions, what with a lot of members
>>of labor unions voting for Reagan and splitting with big city voters.
>>Hell, I'm surprised Reagan couldn't find a way to appeal to urban black
>>voters.

>Was wondering when someone was going to mention Reagan in the context
>of the genesis of the ideas that led to Trump

There's no conenction between Reagan and Trump. Furthermore, Reagan
didn't pioneer that rhetoric. Politicians often use it under the right
circumstances to appeal to certain voters because it works.

>>Carter also lost support from Southern Baptists, both at the leadership
>>level and at the level of congregation members. They wrongly assumed
>>that Carter would allow his religious convictions to guide his legal
>>support of social policies, but Carter's social policies were largely
>>secular. It's one of the few things that's admirable about him.

>He's far from the only religious political leader who kept his
>personal views far from his politics - Paul Martin and Stephen Harper
>of Canada, Tony Blair of the UK just for starters.

That's not the point. In 1976, Carter emphasized his religious beliefs
to appeal to Southern voters with similar religious beliefs. "Hey! I'm
one of you!" When he failed to put any of his religious beliefs into
policy or support legislation, they felt betrayed and left the
Democratic coalition.

Tony Blair didn't do that. I don't recall anything about Martin or
Harper when they first ran for office.

>Had Obama kept his views more separate he would have banned Wright who
>other than being a long time Obama friend had little to commend him at
>all.

Lots of people have suggested that; I never agreed with that position.
Obama himself became a Christian in Chicago as he was told he had to
choose a congregation to join to make political connections, given how
black politics worked. Carter was a true believer. There's just no way
to make an equivalence with Obama.

Furthermore, the the very crap that Wright said which would later come
to embarass Obama was said from the pulpit but was NOT religious in any
way, just prejudiced.

>>This led to Jerry Falwell endorsing Reagan and very religious Christian
>>Protestants in the South leaving the Democratic coalition and joining
>>the Republican coalition. These types that weren't Dixiecrats remained
>>Democrats after Johnson-era civil rights legislation was passed, or
>>calmed down after a decade and had voted Democratic again in the 1970s.

>Falwell discredited himself with no help from Carter

By the late 1970s? I dont' recall that, but I didn't care enough to pay
any attention as a kid.

>>There just wasn't too much that Carter did right.

>>I remember liking John Anderson, who ran as an independent.

>My memory of Anderson pretty much combines the best features of
>Sanders and McCain. (I freely admit there is much NOT to like about
>those two gentlemen!) Obviously that's a gross over-simplification but
>that'll do for a start.

Goodness. I don't see how I could disagree with you more. Sanders has a
bizarre charisma that his followers like; he's evoking Howard Beale.
Anderson was extremely low key.

I both loved and hated McCain at the same time. He could be both
honorable and exceedingly petty in his politics. McCain-Feingold is an
example of his pettiness, and it led to the over-the-top Supreme Court
decision in Citizens United that wouldn't have occurred otherwise. The
problem never was money in politics, but disclosure. The bill grew out
of anonymous spending attacking McCain. Instead of amending existing
campaign financial disclsure laws which had survived constitutional
scrutiny largely intact, McCain attempted to ban the spending entirely.

McCain had also gone after nonprofits before McCain-Feingold and a lot
of the pointless crap in tax law that gives me so much more work to do
was largely due to McCain.

Also, McCain always went after Amtrak, which was like the second
smallest government spending program, so that signalled that his alleged
concern for excessive government spending was limited to programs he
didn't like.

He was also super-hawkish, probably would have supported war with Iran.

[Checkmate]

Warning! Always wear ANSI approved safety goggles when reading posts by
Checkmate! In article <qa0l75$1094$3...@gioia.aioe.org>, kkensington01
@gmail.nospam.invalid says...

> Scratch a rightard, find a hypocrite. Every single time.
>

And an EMP from The Kensitard just blew out every "irony meter" on half of
the planet.

--
Checkmate ®
Copyright © 2019
all rights reserved

AUK Hammer of Thor award, Feb. 2012 (Pre-Burnore)
Destroyer of the AUK Ko0k Awards (Post-Burnore)
Co-winner Pierre Salinger Hook, Line & Sinker
award May 2001, (Brethern of Beelzebub troll)
Pierre Salinger Hook, Line & Sinker award, Feb 2012

Author, Humorist, Cynic
Philosopher, Humanitarian
Poet, Elektrishun to the Stars
Usenet Shot-Caller

In loving memory of The Battle Kitten
May 2010-February 12, 2017

[thinbl...@gmail.com]

"Upon learning that this article did not support claims that Otto was beaten, and included the theory that he may have attempted suicide—a possibility that the family, through their lawyer, dismissed categorically—the Warmbiers withdrew a statement that they had previously provided. Ultimately, they declined to comment for this story."

https://www.gq.com

[thinbl...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, May 4, 2019 at 2:11:23 AM UTC-4, thinbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, April 27, 2019 at 1:04:42 AM UTC-4, thinbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, April 26, 2019 at 2:14:01 AM UTC-4, FPP wrote:
> > > North Korea issued $2 million bill for comatose Otto Warmbier’s care
> > >
> > > BEIJING — North Korea issued a $2 million bill for the hospital care of
> > > comatose American Otto Warmbier, insisting that a U.S. official sign a
> > > pledge to pay it before being allowed to fly the University of Virginia
> > > student home from Pyongyang in 2017.
> > >
> > > The presentation of the invoice — not previously disclosed by U.S. or
> > > North Korean officials — was extraordinarily brazen even for a regime
> > > known for its aggressive tactics.
> > >
> > > But the main U.S. envoy sent to retrieve Warmbier signed an agreement to
> > > pay the medical bill on instructions passed down from President Trump,
> > > according to two people familiar with the situation.
> > >
> > > Fred Warmbier, Otto’s father, said he was never told about the hospital
> > > bill. He said it sounded like a “ransom” for his son.
> > >
> > > https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/north-korea-issued-2-million-bill-for-comatose-otto-warmbiers-care/2019/04/25/0e8022a0-66ad-11e9-a698-2a8f808c9cfb_story.html?utm_term=.dd5d68cc21fd
> > >
> > > So Trump agreed to pay a murderous dictator $2,000,000 for the return of
> > > the broken, maimed comatose American, whose father thinks it was
> > > "ransom" disguised as a "hospital bill".

> > Official US Narrative: Methodist choirboy murdered for defacing communist poster.
> >
> > Closer to truth: Jewboy with ties to CIA arrested in restricted area suffers brain death after swallowing cyanide pill.
>
>
> "Upon learning that this article did not support claims that Otto was beaten, and included the theory that he may have attempted suicide—a possibility that the family, through their lawyer, dismissed categorically—the Warmbiers withdrew a statement that they had previously provided. Ultimately, they declined to comment for this story."
>
> https://www.gq.com

After Otto Warmbier, It’s Time To Say ‘Never Again’ About North Korea

"With the death of one of our own, American Jews can no longer claim ignorance of the atrocities taking place in North Korea."

https://forward.com

[thinbl...@gmail.com]

"To get real answers, someone would have to go to Pyongyang. So with the Obama White House’s blessing, Richardson and Bergman negotiated a visit by promising to discuss private humanitarian aid for North Korean flood victims, along with Otto’s release."

"Bergman, a former Israeli paratrooper with a therapist’s sensitive demeanour, was chosen as the emissary, as Richardson would draw too much attention."

https://www.scmp.com

[thinbl...@gmail.com]

"Mickey Bergman, who was involved in backchannel negotiations with North Korea during the Obama administration, told GQ that he approached the Trump transition team but never heard back."

"Bergman, a former Israeli paratrooper, said he was inspired by the Iran hostage crisis ending just minutes after Ronald Reagan's inauguration, and felt there was a similar opportunity to bring Warmbier home in a blaze of glory on the Trump plane between the 2016 election and Trump's inauguration."

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/07/28/04/4EA2DEF200000578-0-image-a-2_1532747769908.jpg







-----------

Crnpr Abg Ncnegurvq Cerfvqrag ybfrf ryrpgvba orsber svefg Oynpx Cerfvqrag trgf xvpxrq bss Wrjvfu tbys pbhefr sbe HA ibgr pbaqrzavat vyyrtny frggyrzragf. Vena if Xbern

[thinbl...@gmail.com]

"Rabbi Jake Rubin, executive director of the Brody Jewish Center at the University of Virginia, called Warmbier “one of the most intellectually curious people I’ve ever met” during the service"

"Warmbier, whose mother is Jewish, became active in the Hillel after a Birthright trip to Israel, during which he received a Hebrew name."

"A spokesman for the family said this week that they chose not to disclose his Judaism during negotiations for his release so as not to antagonize North Korea."

https://www.jta.org

[thinbl...@gmail.com]

"The Interview is a 2014 American action comedy film produced and directed by Seth Rogen and Evan Goldberg."

"The film stars Rogen and James Franco as journalists who set up an interview with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un, but are recruited by the CIA to assassinate him."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seth_Rogen#Early_life

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evan_Goldberg#Personal_life

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Franco#Early_life

[thinbl...@gmail.com]

"Early on in Pyongyang, Otto and the other Young Pioneers were led aboard the U.S.S. Pueblo, an American Navy spy ship that had been seized by the North Koreans in 1968 and today serves as an odd tourist attraction."

"Stepping from the boat, Otto “was a little bit shocked,” said Danny Gratton"

https://www.gq.com

[thinbl...@gmail.com]

Emails Reveal US State Department Influenced Sony’s “The Interview” so as to Encourage Assassination and Regime Change in North Korea

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.arts.tv/KJcy-X3MAnE/NW68a5ND3V8J

[thinbl...@gmail.com]

"You guys, they blew my cover. The CIA is going to be so pissed." - Seth Rogen

https://twitter.com/Sethrogen/status/905604728603545600

[thinbl...@gmail.com]

"Otto was one of those special young people who are praised as “all-American”. At highly ranked Wyoming High School, in Ohio, he boasted the second-best grades in his year group. He was a maths whizz"

"Otto’s best days seemed ahead: he attended the University of Virginia with a scholarship in 2014"

https://www.scmp.com



“Most if not all spy services view universities as a prime recruiting ground,” “People are most pliable in their late teens and early twenties, when they’re young and inexperienced."

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/tradition/a12814064/spy-school-daniel-golden-fbi-cia-recruit-at-american-colleges/

https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2018/03/26/594909193/cia-recruiting-the-rare-topic-the-spy-agency-likes-to-talk-about

[thinbl...@gmail.com]

"Otto was Jewish by matrilineal descent. Like many fellow millennial Jews of his generation he joined the Birthright to Israel trip in 2014. It was on that trip that he was given a Hebrew name and it was on that visit to the Kotel – the Western Wall – that he sensed a powerful personal connection with his past and his people. He movingly wrote a blog post about his experience: “The Western Wall was a truly incredible experience for me,” he said. “Just being at a spot that has been so central to Judaism for thousands of years was completely surreal. The power that emanated from the wall showed on the faces of all those who were near it. When I was forced to step away to avoid holding up the group for the third time, it honestly felt like saying goodbye to a loved one,” he went on. “It was difficult to wrap my mind around the concept of such a pinnacle – I had done what so many Jews wish to do. Each year at Chanukah, my family finishes the prayer by saying ‘next year in Jerusalem.’ For me, it was this year in Jerusalem. And this day at the Western Wall.”"

"A spark had been lit within him. In spite of his secular background and lack of formal religious education, he was sufficiently inspired to become involved in and active with the Hillel group at his University of Virginia. Otto was a Jew. And that is why there was no autopsy."

https://www.aish.com

[bruce2...@gmail.com]

On Friday, April 26, 2019 at 3:10:14 PM UTC-4, Ed Stasiak wrote:
> > FPP
> >
> > So Trump agreed to pay a murderous dictator $2,000,000 for the return
> > of the broken, maimed comatose American, whose father thinks it was
> > ”ransom" disguised as a "hospital bill".
>
> While Otto Warmbier was an idiot for stealing commie propaganda posters
> from a hotel, (which I’m sure the Norks would have given them to him for
> free) are you really suggesting he should have been left to die in N.Korea?

As opposed to the repubs being CAUGHT paying ransom money to terrorists? Huh, 'Ed' ?

[FPP]

If you pay someone ransom money, all you do is encourage them to take
another "hostage".

[thinbl...@gmail.com]

Continued in this thread:

Average Malls, Western Walls and Warm Beer
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.arts.tv/GKiy7roCQL8/9Vairw3WAwAJ

[thinbl...@gmail.com]

On Friday, April 26, 2019 at 2:14:01 AM UTC-4, FPP wrote:
> North Korea issued $2 million bill for comatose Otto Warmbier’s care
>
> BEIJING — North Korea issued a $2 million bill for the hospital care of
> comatose American Otto Warmbier, insisting that a U.S. official sign a
> pledge to pay it before being allowed to fly the University of Virginia
> student home from Pyongyang in 2017.
>
> The presentation of the invoice — not previously disclosed by U.S. or
> North Korean officials — was extraordinarily brazen even for a regime
> known for its aggressive tactics.
>
> But the main U.S. envoy sent to retrieve Warmbier signed an agreement to
> pay the medical bill on instructions passed down from President Trump,
> according to two people familiar with the situation.
>
> Fred Warmbier, Otto’s father, said he was never told about the hospital
> bill. He said it sounded like a “ransom” for his son.
>
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/north-korea-issued-2-million-bill-for-comatose-otto-warmbiers-care/2019/04/25/0e8022a0-66ad-11e9-a698-2a8f808c9cfb_story.html?utm_term=.dd5d68cc21fd
>
> So Trump agreed to pay a murderous dictator $2,000,000 for the return of
> the broken, maimed comatose American, whose father thinks it was
> "ransom" disguised as a "hospital bill".

ENGEL & MENENDEZ CALL FOR ANSWERS ON PAYMENT TO NORTH KOREA FOR OTTO WARMBIER RELEASE
05/03/19
ENGEL & MENENDEZ CALL FOR ANSWERS ON PAYMENT TO NORTH KOREA FOR OTTO WARMBIER RELEASE

WASHINGTON—Representative Eliot L. Engel, Chairman of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs, and Senator Bob Menendez, Ranking Member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, today called for answers from the Trump Administration regarding reports that the U.S. government committed to paying $2 million to North Korea to secure the release of Otto Warmbier.

In a letter to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, they wrote, “While we of course share a belief that every effort should be made to secure the release of American citizens being held hostage by foreign entities, we are also concerned that the way in which this matter was handled may have created additional complications for U.S. national security interests, both in our diplomacy with North Korea and on other matters where the lives and livelihood of U.S. citizens are at stake.”

Full text of the letter can be found here and below:



Dear Mr. Secretary:

We write with regard to recent press reports that the United States government allegedly committed in writing to pay $2 million to the Democratic Republic of North Korea to secure the release of Otto Warmbier in June 2017. We understand that Ambassador Bolton confirmed on Fox News Sunday on April 28, 2019 that the United States did indeed make a commitment to pay for Mr. Warmbier’s medical expenses, but that “no money was paid.”

The arrest, imprisonment, and death of Otto Warmbier are a clear indication of the cruel and depraved nature of the North Korean regime. While we of course share a belief that every effort should be made to secure the release of American citizens being held hostage by foreign entities, we are also concerned that the way in which this matter was handled may have created additional complications for U.S. national security interests, both in our diplomacy with North Korea and on other matters where the lives and livelihood of U.S. citizens are at stake.

While some information about this incident has now been released to the press, we still have a number of questions on which we would appreciate your prompt response by May 17, 2019.

• Did officials at the Department of State, the CIA, or the White House anticipate or have any awareness prior to Ambassador Yun’s trip in June of 2017that such a demand for medical payment or any other form of payment for Mr. Warmbier’s release would be made? If so, did the Department produce any analysis on the impact of such a payment or options for how to respond to such a demand?

• Who was the highest-ranking U.S. government official to authorize Ambassador Yun to sign for the payment, and through whom was this authorization transmitted to him?

• In the Department’s view, would such a payment be allowed under current US and UNSC sanctions?

• At the time Ambassador Yun was authorized to sign for the payment, had or did OFAC issue a license or other authorization, approval, or acknowledgment related to the signing the agreement for $2 million? If not, why not?

• Did the written commitment to, or negotiations with, North Korea regarding the promised payment contain a timeline for when payment was expected, or any other conditions for either payment or non-payment?

• Does the Administration believe that Kim Jong Un was aware of Mr. Warmbier’s arrest, trial, and imprisonment and condition? Does the Administration believe that Kim Jong Un was responsible for the decision not to allow Otto Warmbier to come home until he was near death?

• What was the Department’s assessment of the likely effects of signing this written commitment on North Korea policy and strategy as it stood in June 2017? Was this assessment provided to the White House or interagency?

• However outrageous the North Korean demand for payment, what is your assessment of effect of the U.S. government not following through on its commitment to pay on subsequent negotiations and diplomacy with North Korea? What consideration was given to that dynamic in making the decision to sign the written commitment?

• Are there any circumstances in which the United States was or is still considering making good on its commitment to pay $2 million to North Korea for Mr. Warmbier’s “medical bills” as a condition of his release?

Given the sensitive nature of the issue as well as on-going diplomacy with North Korea we are happy to take your response in either classified or unclassified format.

https://engel.house.gov/latest-news/engel-menendez-call-for-answers-on-payment-to-north-korea-for-otto-warmbier-release/

[Ed Stasiak]

> thinbl...@gmail.com

>
> ENGEL & MENENDEZ CALL FOR ANSWERS ON PAYMENT TO NORTH KOREA FOR OTTO WARMBIER RELEASE
> 05/03/19
> ENGEL & MENENDEZ CALL FOR ANSWERS ON PAYMENT TO NORTH KOREA FOR OTTO WARMBIER RELEASE

You seem to be ignoring that;

A. the Norks are assholes
B. they literally tortured the guy to death

But even if he was a double-secret Jewish super agent, should have just left the guy there to die?

[thinbl...@gmail.com]

Warmbier's short life and death are tragic. But the North Koreans, despite Trump's claim and early media reports, didn't torture Otto, as confirmed by his primary American doctor and the physicians in the coroners department who did the post mortem exam. Nope, NO torture. In fact, he was treated very well, again as reported by American doctors who would know, without the hysterics of a grieving mother.

And Warmbier was alive when released by DPRK, he died in the USA after his parents OK'd removal of feeding tubes.

Best I can tell, Warmbier shortly after his televised public confession, attempted suicide that was unsuccessful, but debilitating, and resulted in brain death, probably from self inflicted hanging, which cut off O2 and blood to the brain, without any sign of bone fractures or other trauma.


The single best report I have been able to find is here:

https://www.gq.com/story/otto-warmbier-north-korea-american-hostage-true-story


I know this 22 year old was under tremendous stress during his public confession, but it still bothers me that an avowed Zionist who had made birthright trip to Israel, blamed Christians for his actions. Saddest of all is the North Koreans claimed Otto (who was a Jew), had a bad reaction that precipitated his condition, after his last supper of spinach and pork.

Yep, I've spent the last several days trying my best to understand, and probably never will fully, unless there is more credible information released.

[Ed Stasiak]

> thinbl...@gmail.com

>
> Best I can tell, Warmbier shortly after his televised public confession,
> attempted suicide that was unsuccessful, but debilitating, and resulted
> in brain death, probably from self inflicted hanging, which cut off O2 and
> blood to the brain, without any sign of bone fractures or other trauma.

I think it’s more believable that the Norks strung him up to prevent him
from talking shit about N.Korea and how they treated him.

[thinbl...@gmail.com]

Not to me it's not. N. Korea treats westerners well, to use as political bargaining chips, usually in the best accommodations, not labor camps like the North Korean prisoners from DPRK. Trump was in midst of negotiations with DPRK, and a well fed, well nourished, healthy skin and able bodied Warmbier, as he was, even after a year and a half in a coma, would probably been released in months, not years, if Otto hadn't complicated the bargaining process with a suicide attempt.

The MSM by omission has lied to the American people, this time with President Trump at their side.

[Micky DuPree]

I blame Ted Koppel and the show that turned into _Nightline_ more than
Cronkite. ABC had a show devoted entirely or almost entirely to the
hostage crisis every single weeknight (and maybe on the weekends, too,
but I can't remember now), even on days when there wasn't anything new
to report, which was most days.

-Micky

[chromebook test]

Ex-North Korean Spy Reveals The Truth Behind Otto Warmbier’s Death
Asian Boss Mar 26, 2023
https://youtu.be/9DTBTTfhcU4?t=1184


We spoke to a Chul-eun Lee, a former high-ranking North Korean government official who defected to South Korea in 2016.



19:43 - 30:00 The Otto Warmbier case












tags: warmbier was not tortured.
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