Supernova E3 tail light opinions

[EricP]

Have had this tail light on my Sam Hillborne for the past year or so.
It's the only light that works with the E3 headlight without blowing
both up to smithereens. However, no matter how much I want to like
the light, am just not sure it is enough. Only three dots and no
reflector to amplify the light Am tempted to just pull it off, clip
the wiring and go with a regular battery flashing to be a pain in the
ol' patootie light.

Any opinions here? Also need to admit not a fan of the extra wiring
running along the top tube of the SH. Just clashes too much. Which
is funny as it works just fine on both my Surly bikes.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

[Steve Palincsar]

On Sun, 2012-01-22 at 05:29 -0800, EricP wrote:
> However, no matter how much I want to like
> the light, am just not sure it is enough.

Have you ever had anything happen that would lead you to believe it was
inadequate?

[islaysteve]

You mean like getting run over by a Hummer?  Sorry, couldn't resist.  To put in my 2 cents, both as an automobile driver during non-daylight hours, and the father of a bicycle commuter, I say the more light the better.  IMO if you feel that the taillight is inadequate,  it probably is.  The $17 Planet Bike blinky that my daughter uses is probably visible from a much greater distance than the light that you describe (without having seen yours, of course).  This light claims a visibility of 1 mile (again, not tested by me.)   A taillight is very important for visibility by cars.  I am aware bikes much sooner when I see the blinking red LEDs up ahead.  Better yet if the rider has a pretty good amount reflective material on their bike and person.   This will also solve the problem of wires, of course, and you can clip the light anywhere that it's convenient: on you, bike or luggage.  Or not clip it at all if you feel that it's not needed for visibility.  Sorry for stating the obvious and if I come across as Dad.  Be careful out there.  Steve

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

I have a few ideas for seizure-inducing high output taillights, and it probably makes sense to run several at a time, at different blink frequencies. Is it a good idea to induce seizures in approaching drivers? Yes, I think so.

[Steve Palincsar]

And what about cyclists riding behind you?

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

I happen to know that EricP doesn't do many after-dark group rides, so tailoring his lighting to other cyclists is probably not a priority. I rode for awhile behind a guy who had one of those slow flash frequency DiNotte taillights. I saw spots for days!

[jimD]

Seizures?
I've not noticed any seizuring when riding the 'Burning Reina' (a.k.a 'clown') bike.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rasterdogs/6541835389/in/photostream

It has drawn props from a number to the under 18 crowd in the past few dampish night rides.

Other bicyclers go by me so fast it doesn't seem to be a problem.

-JimD
…always serious about bicycling.

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[David T.]

Flashing lights: Getting the attention of drivers is important. But if
your lights and reflectors provide enough visibility to motorists, I
think it can detract from safety to have the rear or front lights
flashing. I know that when I am on my bike, or driving, I have a
harder time clearly seeing other bikes who have flashing lights. I
can’t tell how far away they are. In some cases I can’t tell exactly
what they are for a split second. So I just have two steady rear
lights and two steady headlights, and extensive reflectors, and I wear
a reflective vest. I think I am actually more visible at night than in
the day, at least from the way that vehicles respond when they see me.
I could be wrong about this, but that is my feeling.

I want to be seen, but I don’t want to alarm motorists. I want to be
seen as a slow moving vehicle, part of the normal traffic, not
something that provokes alarm. So immediately the motorist knows he is
dealing with a bicycle, and all he needs to do is pass when it is safe
to do so. It is easy to pass a bicycle, and it doesn’t slow down the
overall progress of cars, because they can quickly make up the time. A
bicycle causes much less disruption to traffic than a large slow
moving vehicle, and I think most motorists gradually learn that. For
the same reason, it helps to take the same route when you are
commuting, because you will encounter the same group of drivers to a
large extent, and they will get used to your presence. The last thing
I want is for the driver to be alarmed, for example if he slams on the
brakes or is taken out of his comfort zone and reacts. I definitely
don’t want them to be “blinded” or disoriented by flashing lights.
That would put me in danger.

Flashing lights are associated with emergency vehicles, pulling over,
stopping, danger. I don’t want those associations suddenly hitting the
semi-consciousness of drivers pulling up behind me. Most of them can
handle it, but there are enough poor drivers that the odd one will do
something stupid. I try to make life easier for the cars, only because
that makes my life easier. Just my two cents on flashing lights. ( or
about a quarter with inflation )

[Andrew]

I've been thinking about lights, and I bet a fairly simple switch (lightweight examples found on motorcycle switchgear) could be affixed to the rear cable housing stop that would activate when the brake is applied, and then power a bright red LED. It could work in conjunction with a steady-on or blinky light, but it would give me a greater degree of control in my communications with too-close cagers who might be crowding me.

- Andrew, Berkeley

[EricP]

Jim is correct, about one night group ride is all I've done. Rarely
out that late. More 5:30 a.m. commutes that caused this to come up.

Have I ever been hit on the Hillborne with the E3 light? No.
Numerous close calls. Hard to say if it's more than with a Planet
Bike Superflash or a Nite Rider flashing light.

My greatest area of concern is lack of visibility with the light.
Three LEDs just sitting there, no amplification.

Of course the other option would be to chuck the entire Supernova
system and just use a B&M system.

If nothing else, it's giving me something to think about changing over
the winter. So it might not just be bar tape that gets replaced in
the next month or so.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

On Jan 22, 11:12 am, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery

[Ginz]

I don't rely on my Supernova tailight alone but since I am already
pushing the Dyno hub I like to take advantage of the battery-free
taillight.

I always carry an extra battery-powered blinkie. The trouble is that
I don't have a place to put it. The fender-mounted Spinnegas don't
flash. My chainstays are blocked by the rack and fender so my
Princeton Tec Swerve is a no-go. Normally I clip a traditional square
light to the back of my pants or belt and put it on flash mode.

I must figure out another place to mount a light.

Ginz

[Tim McNamara]

This is a matter of some debate in some quarters, but I never use a light in flashing mode. In some places, for one thing, it is actually illegal as flashing lights are reserved for emergency vehicles and the like, except for turn signals. Another issue is that flashing lights just annoy me. A third is that if a flashing light is all that another road users has to go on in order to visually locate you and to estimate your direction and speed, a flashing light is harder for them to track. I set all my lights in non-flashing mode and this has always worked well. I have never been run into at night because of it. IMHO we are often harder to see in broad daylight than at night.

[dweendaddy]

If you do junk the (pricey) system and switch to B&M, I have loved my Toplight line plus in the rear. Really the best I have seen.
I am sure you can sell the E3 for not a huge loss.
As for flashing vs steady, didn't we just have a super long thread on that??

Edwin "livin' the dyno dream" Williamson

[Way Rebb]

You can also add a few more lights in back. I ride in the dark quite a
bit and I have three tail lights, all battery powered: An old Vista
Light 5 LEd mounted to the rack, one on the fender and the Soma Bullet
light down where the rack attaches to the stay. I also have one of
the reflective triangles Rivendell sells and the rack light makes a
nice glow through the mesh, especially in the fog.

Regards,
Ray

[Steve Palincsar]

On Mon, 2012-01-23 at 09:44 -0800, Way Rebb wrote:
> You can also add a few more lights in back. I ride in the dark quite a
> bit and I have three tail lights, all battery powered

A friend of mine has 5 or 6 on his brevet bike: a generator powered
steady light, a DiNotte, a blinking Planet Bike Superflash on each seat
stay, some kind of bright flasher and a tiny little red lantern hanging
off the seat bag.

I can't ride behind him with all of that going. It's absolutely
unbearable.

[Liesl]

Hi Eric,

I commute on Summit Avenue on the way home, and I find that when I
come up on other bikes, one of the great things that identifies it as
a bicycle is pedal reflectors. Their movement immediately says "bike"
and I'm surprised how well/far away they can be seen. Certainly
further than bad lights. On the flashing front, I do like the planet
bike blinky. I've seen one as I was crossing the Marshall Ave bridge
and the bike was up the hill just about at Cretin and it was a little
foggy that day. Really impressive. And ditto on the reflector vests
and triangles, etc. I think the best approach is to do whatever you
can that identifies you as a bicycle; e.g. pedal reflectors.

liesl

[PATRICK MOORE]

Or adding reflective tape to your cranks as I do when my pedals don't accept reflectors. I agree that the "bobbing up and down" or flashing (if the tape is installed at the bb axle junction) appearance signals "bike". 

Of course, you can always use ankle reflectors too.

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[EricP]

Good comments patrick and Liesl. Might cut some reflective tape for
the crankarms. Already have MKS sneaker pedals with reflectors. And
a foot or so silver reflective tape on the rear fender. Should maybe
hunt down my reflective triangle and install it on the Country Bag.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far. Looks like the ugly cable will
be sticking around. Unless I redo it down below the bike.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

> Patrick Moore, ACRWhttp://resumespecialties.com/index.html- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Eric Norris]

Lee Mitchell, a local bike person who has been driving sag support for literally hundreds of events here in NorCal, recommends reflective ankle bands as the most valuable piece of nighttime safety equipment. As Liesl notes, the movement instantly identifies you as a cyclist, and helps the motorist gauge speed and distance based on that knowledge.

--Eric N
Sent from my iPad2 

[PATRICK MOORE]

One more idea: a big reflective triangle attached to your bag, or a reflective vest (personally dislike these -- too much of a hassle to get on and off over all the other winter kit), Sam Browne or -- my favorite -- a reflective triangle attached to a reflective belt.

One more idea yet: Lightman strobe when you want to attach a blinkie to a bag that, unlike a frame or seatpost or rack mounting, does not hold the light in one position. The strobe does not suffer from the off-axis decline in visibility that LED blinkies seem to do. OTOH, the Lightman that I have runs only 2 hours on 2 alkaline or NMH AAs.

https://picasaweb.google.com/BERTIN753/BIKESMISCELLANEA#5663812088636007938

Don't try this with your two-wheeler:

https://picasaweb.google.com/BERTIN753/BIKESMISCELLANEA#5695750139888167026

[Zack]

I also have this taillight on my Sam.

I look at it as the baseline for the rest of my safety gear - no matter what, it's on the bike, i don't have to worry about the batteries wearing out, and i can't forget it.

I don't think that it is an awesome safety solution on it's own.

i add a planet bike blinky to the back of my saddlesack, wear ankle reflectors, have reflective stuff on my clothing, use a safety triangle, and have pedal reflectors at various different times depending on where I am going.

I always always use the triangle if I am going to be riding somewhere new that I don't know well, as I don't want to get caught out in bad traffic on a rough stretch of road without that added protection.  

[Ryan Ray]

This has been an extremely informative thread. I now feel completely unprepared for night riding and I'm completely torn between blinking and not blinking.

- Ryan

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Yup.  Comforting that there's obviously no wrong answer.

---

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Ray
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 3:41 PM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: Supernova E3 tail light opinions

This has been an extremely informative thread. I now feel completely unprepared for night riding and I'm completely torn between blinking and not blinking.

- Ryan

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[PATRICK MOORE]

Ryan: note that the standard roadwork barrier warning light is an amber blinkie (tho' I am old enough to remember the hand-bomb-shaped flaming flares used until the '60s or so). Of course, the fact that guvmint uses it is no proof of its reasonableness.

Me, I use: one blinkie; one steady; and reflectors on person (Sam Browne or waist triangle, ankle reflectors) and bike (cranks; fender; sometimes rim, triangle if not on person).

I think it's foolish to sweat this question too much -- as they say, it's not rocket science. Have a good headlight with backup; have a good blinkie with backup; have reflective gear on you and your bike; and ride with reasonable caution.

This blog post is wordy and somewhat confused, but the essential message -- "don't ride stupidly and cycling is not that dangerous" -- is worth reconsidering.

I personally discount the "moth effect" warnings and the "annoying to motorists" warnings; I want motorists to be alarmed if that's what it takes to be visible -- let them scrape the left curb in their panic if that means they see me (I refer to the idiots who feel they must give a cyclist 25 feet of clearance by passing entirely in the oncoming lane; tho' these are better than the brain-dead type who drive with right wheels 2' across the bike lane line). Of course, courtesy would dictate care in selecting your rear lights when riding with other cyclists.

Patrick "cut my cycling teeth in New Delhi urban traffic and survived six years of *extremely* stupid adolescent ego-motivated cycling on the deadly streets of greater Nairobi, Kenya" Moore

On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Ryan Ray <ryan...@gmail.com> wrote:

This has been an extremely informative thread. I now feel completely unprepared for night riding and I'm completely torn between blinking and not blinking.

- Ryan

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[PATRICK MOORE]

Dmit: forgot the URL: http://thelazyrando.wordpress.com/2011/03/24/the-safety-myth/

[Ryan Ray]

http://thelazyrando.wordpress.com/2011/03/24/the-safety-myth/

This ^

[jimD]

I too was consternated by this dilemma.

I run my Dinotte on low/no flash and my Planet Bike blinkeys blink'n.

The Dinotte on flashing is just totally over the top.

I've been using this set up for several years and haven't had any problems with seizures or appoplexy near as I can tell.

Of course I've got spots in front of my eyes so I may have been missing some things.

-JimD

On Jan 23, 2012, at 12:40 PM, Ryan Ray wrote:

This has been an extremely informative thread. I now feel completely unprepared for night riding and I'm completely torn between blinking and not blinking.

- Ryan

[charlie]

I use the new Toplight line steady tail light. The horizontal bar
helps drivers judge distance and it is as bright as any auto tail
light. I also use a Princeton Tec Swerve on my helmet ( the switch is
easy to manipulate when riding with winter gloves) that I turn on
when I suspect a driver is not aware. This high helmet mounted tail
light is good in hilly areas and when riding in traffic. I also have a
backup Planet bike tail light on my Carradice bag should the others
fail. My tires have reflective sidewalls and my Showers Pass jacket
has reflective areas on it. I also use a ankle reflector. On the front
is my new IQ Fly 24 and my helmet has the Serfas 150 lumen battery
light that I use on low (50 lumens and still bright) for seeing around
corners before turning or to blast drivers who high beam me. I also
have red reflector tape on my fenders and white reflector tape on the
head tube. I figure if I can't be seen at night with this set up the
driver is drunk, high or blind.

On Jan 22, 5:29 am, EricP <ericpl...@aol.com> wrote:
> Have had this tail light on my Sam Hillborne for the past year or so.
> It's the only light that works with the E3 headlight without blowing
> both up to smithereens.  However, no matter how much I want to like
> the light, am just not sure it is enough. Only three dots and no
> reflector to amplify the light  Am tempted to just pull it off, clip
> the wiring and go with a regular battery flashing to be a pain in the
> ol' patootie light.
>
> Any opinions here?  Also need to admit not a fan of the extra wiring
> running along the top tube of the SH.  Just clashes too much.  Which
> is funny as it works just fine on both my Surly bikes.