New Hunqapillar

[René Sterental]

I spent today afternoon building up the Hunqapillar and fine tuning its fit. Pictures of the initial build are here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/orthie251/sets/72157627319515196/

I put 40mm Marathon Extremes as I have a set of 2.25 Nobby Nics on order. They ride extremely nice on the pavement; can't really tell them apart from the 50mm Supremes.

Setup is as follows:

- 58cm Hunqapillar frame

- Mavic A719, 36 spoked, XT hubs wheelset built by Rich

- 12/36 9 speed cassette

- DuraAce 9 speed down tube shifters to try them out and make it easy to play with the cockpit to fine tune it.

- 200mm Bullmoose bars with Shimano brake levers and Specialized XC grips that I'm going to try to wrap with tape and shellac to see what happens...

- Polished Paul front Neo-Retro and rear Canti brakes

- Black Berthoud Touring saddle

- Front Nitto Mini Rack

- XT Low-normal rear derailer

- Microshift front derailer (only option at RBW)

- Phil BB

- Sugino XD2 crankset 24-34-46, 175mm

- Shimano A530 pedals

- Nitto S83 26.8 seatpost

- Tange headset

Initial comments:

The bike feels just great riding near my house. I feel a bit stretched out on the bars but as I've fine tuned the saddle angle everything seems to be getting better; I'll have to try it on longer and rougher rides and may even decide to try the shorter 150mm Bullmoose bars. I've been surprised by how great the bars feel. I tried the bike at first with the Nitto Touring bars but it felt just like my Atlantis (great but I wanted to try something different). I don't think the Touring (Butterfly) bars are very good to go mountain biking with, and after playing with them for a while in the normal and rotated forward 180 degrees just to see how that felt, I settled for the Bullmoose which I believe are going to stay on it for a very long time, at least while I keep it as a mountain bike. The frame feels significantly less flexy than the Atlantis when wiggling the bars, which was to be expected. I tried to ride it no hands to see if it would shimmy like the Atlantis, but there was no sign. I know, different tires, no rear rack and no load, but it's a great initial impression.

I'll try it on longer rides and commute on it to see how it behaves with the Nitto Big Rear Rack and the panniers. It might end up being my S240/touring bike (when I'm finally able to start touring...). It might be too redundant to have both the Atlantis and the Hunqapillar unless the Hunqa stays configured as a mountain/adventure bike and the Atlantis remains as my commuter and full fendered touring bike. We'll see, but I have to say I'm very happy with my bike stable right now.

I may also try the Extremes on the Atlantis to see if the shimmy changes in any way, the 50mm Supremes or Big Apples on the Hunqa, etc. 

I hope everyone is having a great weekend so far,

René

[PATRICK MOORE]

Please keep us informed of your off road ride experiences. I am still
tempted by a Hunqapillar to build up as a ss off road bike, to
complement the Fargo, but I want something that feels lighter and
nimbler (the Fargo is lovely but it is heavy at 33 lb with the fat
wheelset).

I am rather put off by the extra diagonal, but that may be overweighed
by the trademark Rivendell ride quality, so I am particularly
interested in how the H feels in cornering and acceleration.

Or I may just get a ti or -- gawd 'elp us -- crabon fibre frame.

Why the so-high bars? Not criticizing, just curious. I find that I
need a certain torso angle and forward reach, otherwise I feel as if I
can't get any power. I'm 56 so I'm no spring chicken, either.

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--
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW
patric...@resumespecialties.com

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But in you is the Presence that will be
When all the stars are dead.
(Rilke, Buddha in Glory)

[Geoff]

Hi René,

Congrats on your new Hunqapillar!  It looks great.  Nice buildup, with some nice upgrades from what would be a typical Riv 'standard' build kit.  I got my Hunq earlier this year, and Riv built it up for me pretty much standard, but with Rich-built wheels, 150mm Bullmoose bars, and Paul Thumbies bar mounts w/Ultegra 8spd bar end shifters.  I was originally going to get the 200mm Bullmoose bars, but wanted the greater 'reachback' of the 150's.  I'm glad I went that route, as it allows me to have a more upright position(comfort for my lower back).  Like you, I love how the Bullmoose bars feel in regards to wrist ergonomics...it feels very natural.  Your Paul Neo Retro/Canti brakes look great.  I have the Tektro high profile cantis and love them.  I got the Schwalbe 700 x 50 Big Apples and really like them.  I test rode an Atlantis with the Schwalbe Supremes, and it did feel a bit zippier than the Big Apples.  But Riv guy Vince, who helped me with my test rides and order, felt the zippier feeling was due more to the higher pressure given the Supremes, than anything else.  I definitely liked the cushier feel of the BA's.

Here's my Hunq: My 2011 Hunqapillar (I apologize to those who have already seen these pics.)

[erik jensen]

patrick,

the hunqapillar can be light and nimble. the second top tube feels natural to me anymore, and folks often comment on how light my bike is (and it's a 62). i notice the stiffness when i'm out of the saddle pulling on my bullmoose hbars, relative to my atlantis in similar conditions. for a beefy steel frame, it ain't bad.

what i like most is having a bike that handles like my other rivs, but is set up for offroad riding. i'm using 29x2.1" knobbies and having a blast. look at some of my photos, and you'll see that with 29" tires you end up with not too long of a wheelbase--an inch or so of clearance between the seatstay and the tire. if i get into a flow and let off my brakes on descents, i can carve into corners just as easily as with my old karate monkey--but the front end handles more like a road machine which is something i appreciate--feels more responsive if a bit dulled with a slightly longer wheelbase (hope that makes sense). i had to go to knobbies, as big apples slid too much in the loose stuff at speed--i know you like BAs, maybe that'll help you decide.

descending straighter lines, well, that's pretty damn magical--the riv stability surprising translates well onto pretty gnarly downhill lines.

i'm using light weight components, but nothing crazy (still got steel hbars, for instance). i love my bike, and feel like i'm riding the 29" equivalent of an early mtb. it's a lot of fun.

photos: http://www.flickr.com/groups/hunqapillar/ (i'm user cosmiccountry)

more generally: http://bikenoir.blogspot.com/

erik

"klunking is dusty in the summer, and muddy in the winter"

oakland, ca
bikenoir.blogspot.com

[PATRICK MOORE]

Erik: Thanks for the details. I am almost on the point of toppling
over on the Rivendell side of the fence. I'd probably ride a 54 -- the
smallest taking a 622 wheel and just my size anyway - and I see that
these do not have the extra tube. I'd use an upjutter stem to get the
drop bar flats about an inch above saddle center.

And, I notice that Riv states 55 as the largest tire, but I know
somone onlist spoke of using 60 mm Big Apples; measuring from inside
to inside of fork legs and stays at the 29" mark, what is the width? I
need room for at least 65 mm tires -- the width of 2.35 BAs on the 45
mm SnoCat SL rims.I can forgo fenders since this will be a -- believe
it or not -- gofast type of offroad bike; ie used for offroad riding
when I want to carry as little weight as possible. I have the Fargo
for everything else.

I would probably have the SnoCat SL rims rebuilt with an ENO rear and
a nice, sealed front and mount the 60 mm Exiwolfs that came stock on
the Monocog 29er I sold. I'd probaby use V brakes with the appropriate
drop levers something like Salsa Bell Laps or even perhaps 44 mm Nitto
185s. Oh, dream on, dream on. We'll see.

[brian tester]

I have been riding my 54cm Hunq about 30% of the time off road. It's
currently shod with 700x50 Duremes (which are pretty decent off road,
btw, at the correct psi.)

Hunq does make a great off roader. Cornering is pretty tight due to
the low bb, though you need to be aware of your pedals. I think it
climbs great as well, though YMMV according to your technique.
Not noodly, yet still comfy. I'm learning how nice 29er's can handle
climbing and trail-cruising in the dirt.

If you aren't planning on catching a lot of air, or doing dual-slalom
or all-mountain type riding, I can't see how the Hunqapillar wouldn't
suit your off-road needs. The ride is not a million miles away from
the mb-1s and mb-3 I used to ride.

-brian

> patrickmo...@resumespecialties.com

[Brian Hanson]

I'm actually surprised how good the Big Apples are in the dirt.  I'm in Whistler, BC this weekend, and took my old MTB up some blue trail single track with mud, rocks, roots, and even a few twisting bridge ramps, and only had one slight front wheel slip in in a gravelly switchback.  They were solid and I stayed quite a ways out front of my knobby shod friend on the ascents and descents.  

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stonehog/5996770108/in/photostream

Brian 

Seattle 

[René Sterental]

Patrick,

I took the initial pictures with the Bullmoose bars at their maximum height, but they didn't feel too good on my initial test rides; I felt too stretched out with a lot of pressure on my hands. I know what you mean about getting a good torso angle, but for me, 51 years old, 260 lbs, 5'11" and if I lean down too much, my left shoulder and neck start hurting. What I have found out is that when I'm riding slow, I want a much more upright position than when I'm riding at tempo where my body naturally leans forward more. Still, even when I'm feeling like I'm leaning forward quite a bit, I don't think I quite get to a 45 degree forward lean.

 

What I have found with the Riv bikes is that apparently the combination of higher handlebars with horizontal bars/grips significantly reduces or eliminates the discomfort I feel. I get some pressure on my hands but they don't hurt and as long as I have different position options which so far the Nitto Touring bars provide plenty of, I've been able to ride for 2 hours with no significant issues for the first time in years.

 

On Sunday morning, when I went for my first paved trail test ride with my son, I had the bars a bit lower and found that while still feeling a bit stretched out when riding slowly, riding at tempo felt quite all right. Today, on my first ever commute with the Hunqa (I had to carry my stuff on a backpack as I haven't yet decided on its final configuration), the fit and the handlebars felt much better and quite comfortable. I've also ordered a set of the 150mm Bullmoose bars to see if those feel any better, but I'm now starting to have some doubts about it when on Saturday, I was quite sure. We'll see... Pictures here: http://tinyurl.com/3gs54fu

I rode it with the 40mm Marathon Extremes to see how they felt. They feel great, but as expected due to the narrower width and higher pressure needed, they felt just a bit rougher on the gravel but not much more than the 50mm Supremes. However, they felt grippier as expected on the loose gravel sections. On pavement, they feel great and you don't feel the knobs at all. To the credit of the larger 50mm tires, the 40s felt faster when riding on pavement but speeds were pretty much comparable according to my computer.

 

Tomorrow I'm going to ride with the 50mm Big Apples to compare. I have a set of 60mm BAs but I only rode them once on the Bombadil and didn't like how they felt at the time. I want to sell them, but if you'd like to see the actual clearance, I could install them and take some photos later in the week. There is one of the demo Hunqas at RBW that is set with them, and the clearances are in milimiters. Quite tight, but still doable. You'd have to deflate the tires every time you were installing or removing the wheels.

 

The Hunqapillar in its current configuration doesn't shimmy at all. I went on my usual paved incline with no hands at 20 mph and there wasn't even a hint. It has a Tange headset so I cannot really say if the CK would have, but even on a section where there are some cracks on the road that throw the Atlantis on a shimmy tendency if I'm gripping the handlebars lightly, there was a hint of the same feeling on the Hunqa but instead of increasing, it queted down on its own right away, even with no hands on.

 

I haven't decided if I'm going to use a rear rack or not. Ideally, I would just put the medium Saddlesack when I needed it, but without a supporting rack its bottom touches the 40mm tire when loaded. I just got a green Carradice Longflap Camper and will try it on without a rack to see how it fits. If there is good clearance from the tire, this might actually be the largest bag to use on the Hunqa and keep it rear rackless for a more fun mountain biker configuration. Then again, with its increased rigidity it might become the bike I choose to use with loaded panniers. We'll see...

 

I'm going to try the 40mm Extremes on the Atlantis and see how its handling changes, if it does, with the narrower tires.

 

I think this bike would be a great single speeder. While I don't think I'll ever get one, with the down tube shifters, at least on the road, I find myself shifting a bit less and sort of pretending I only have one gear... until my knees hurt and I have to shift! LOL!!!

 

Overall, so far I have to say that the Hunqapillar is extremely nice to ride; responsive and stiff but not rigidly so, much stiffer than the Atlantis with this heavy rider on top. The handling with the Bullmoose bars is amazing. I'm quite impressed; I'm traveling to Chicago this weekend for a week, so it won't be until the following weekend when I get to fully try it off road on the mountain biking trails. I'll keep reporting... but I'd definitely think this bike has been a great choice. I was initially bothered by the diagonal tube and the color scheme, but no more. In person the color scheme looks great and more importantly, my wife, daughters and son love it. Esthetically, I really like it now and I think I like it much better than the full diagonal configuration of the Bombadil. The triangulation and additional firmness/rigidity it adds for heavy riders like me is amazing while preserving or even enhancing that magical Riv feeling. The 58cm is the perfect size for me.

René

[René Sterental]

Thanks Geoff!

 

As you can read from my reply to Patrick, I'm going to try the 150 Bullmoose bars but after today's morning commute, I'm thinking that for more active riding, perhaps I'll stick to the 200. The good thing is that whether I keep the downtube shifters or switch to bar thumbies, it'll be so easy to switch them based on the intended purpose of the ride that I may actually keep both.

 

I had seen your photos, great looking bike! Do you like the Imperial saddle a lot?

 

René

[René Sterental]

Brian,

 

That's the first time I see a hardtail with front suspension and drop bars! The BAs look good too. Glad to know that you like them on the dirt. May I ask why you have your bike configured like that?

 

René

[Brian Hanson]

It's a parts bike that I'm using to try things out on when I get a wild hair.  I've actually been planning on selling/donating it for a while, as it's a bit stiff. I've always wanted to replace it with a steel frame - perhaps a Hunqa or Bomba. 

I really liked the drops and had no real handicap in using them off road - the brake hoods were like the old bar-ends I used to have on my flat bar.  I did a lot of bouncing around on rocks, and never lost grip, and the brakes were fine from the hoods as far as power went.

The bar-end shifting was not ideal, but really only because shifting bar-ends on mtb trails is a bit slow for the rapid changes you can need.  I wound up realizing that for the most part, I only needed a low gear, as when I was going downhill, it was technical enough I could gain great speed by coasting until I got to another steep "up".  Could probably do most of the trail on a single speed - maybe a 32x21.  When I was too low, I put too much torque into the back wheel, and could spin it on the wood ramps.  

I guess the thing is that the setup actually worked quite well, and I really went into it expecting a major fail due to wrong equipment.  

Brian

[René Sterental]

Go for the Hunqa as there is a very long delay/wait fir the Bomba. I'm amazed at how nice the Hunqa is. It's exceeded all my expectations so far. 

Rene

Sent from my iPhone 4

[Philip Williamson]

Flared drops in the dirt work great, even with a front shock. I know
Grant disprefers them, but I think there's a market for Nitto-produced
Cunningham bars. And matching tall stems. I've got the vintage WTBs on
the Quickbeam, and they're different (better) than the Midge bars on
the Bontrager hardtail and the Woodchippers on the Gary Fisher
Utopia.

I like the hoods for climbing, and the ends for leverage, and I would
rather be tucked into the drops on a gravel descent than hanging onto
flat bars. Flat bars are fine, and I rode them for years, but I love
love love the drops in the dirt.

A Bombadil with a painted half-lugged stem and drops would be a real
treat.
And a two-tone Type II fork (http://stevepottsbicycles.blogspot.com/
2011/08/type-iis-for-29ers.html). Now we're dreamin'...

Newbaum's tape all around, but yet to be installed on the QB.
Quickbeam/WTB: http://www.flickr.com/photos/philipwilliamson/5591101079/
Bontrager/Midge: http://www.flickr.com/photos/philipwilliamson/5936237230/
Utopia/Woodchipper (ex-hybrid): http://www.flickr.com/photos/philipwilliamson/5911203722/

Philip

Philip Williamson
www.biketinker.com

On Aug 1, 10:06 pm, Brian Hanson <stone...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's a parts bike that I'm using to try things out on when I get a wild
> hair.  I've actually been planning on selling/donating it for a while, as
> it's a bit stiff. I've always wanted to replace it with a steel frame -
> perhaps a Hunqa or Bomba.
>
> I really liked the drops and had no real handicap in using them off road -
> the brake hoods were like the old bar-ends I used to have on my flat bar.  I
> did a lot of bouncing around on rocks, and never lost grip, and the brakes
> were fine from the hoods as far as power went.
>
> The bar-end shifting was not ideal, but really only because shifting
> bar-ends on mtb trails is a bit slow for the rapid changes you can need.  I
> wound up realizing that for the most part, I only needed a low gear, as when
> I was going downhill, it was technical enough I could gain great speed by
> coasting until I got to another steep "up".  Could probably do most of the
> trail on a single speed - maybe a 32x21.  When I was too low, I put too much
> torque into the back wheel, and could spin it on the wood ramps.
>
> I guess the thing is that the setup actually worked quite well, and I really
> went into it expecting a major fail due to wrong equipment.
>
> Brian
>

> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 1:18 PM, René Sterental <orthie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Brian,
>
> > That's the first time I see a hardtail with front suspension and drop bars!
> > The BAs look good too. Glad to know that you like them on the dirt. May I
> > ask why you have your bike configured like that?
>
> > René
>

> > On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 9:29 PM, Brian Hanson <stone...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> I'm actually surprised how good the Big Apples are in the dirt.  I'm in
> >> Whistler, BC this weekend, and took my old MTB up some blue trail single
> >> track with mud, rocks, roots, and even a few twisting bridge ramps, and only
> >> had one slight front wheel slip in in a gravelly switchback.  They were
> >> solid and I stayed quite a ways out front of my knobby shod friend on the
> >> ascents and descents.
>
> >>http://www.flickr.com/photos/stonehog/5996770108/in/photostream
>
> >> Brian
> >> Seattle
>

> >> On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 12:12 PM, erik jensen <bicyclen...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >>> patrick,
>
> >>> the hunqapillar can be light and nimble. the second top tube feels
> >>> natural to me anymore, and folks often comment on how light my bike is (and
> >>> it's a 62). i notice the stiffness when i'm out of the saddle pulling on my
> >>> bullmoose hbars, relative to my atlantis in similar conditions. for a beefy
> >>> steel frame, it ain't bad.
>
> >>> what i like most is having a bike that handles like my other rivs, but is
> >>> set up for offroad riding. i'm using 29x2.1" knobbies and having a blast.
> >>> look at some of my photos, and you'll see that with 29" tires you end up
> >>> with not too long of a wheelbase--an inch or so of clearance between the
> >>> seatstay and the tire. if i get into a flow and let off my brakes on
> >>> descents, i can carve into corners just as easily as with my old karate
> >>> monkey--but the front end handles more like a road machine which is
> >>> something i appreciate--feels more responsive if a bit dulled with a
> >>> slightly longer wheelbase (hope that makes sense). i had to go to knobbies,
> >>> as big apples slid too much in the loose stuff at speed--i know you like
> >>> BAs, maybe that'll help you decide.
>
> >>> descending straighter lines, well, that's pretty damn magical--the riv
> >>> stability surprising translates well onto pretty gnarly downhill lines.
>
> >>> i'm using light weight components, but nothing crazy (still got steel
> >>> hbars, for instance). i love my bike, and feel like i'm riding the 29"
> >>> equivalent of an early mtb. it's a lot of fun.
>

> >>> photos:http://www.flickr.com/groups/hunqapillar/(i'm user

> >>> cosmiccountry)
> >>> more generally:http://bikenoir.blogspot.com/
>
> >>> erik
>
> >>> "klunking is dusty in the summer, and muddy in the winter"
>

> >>> On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 6:20 AM, PATRICK MOORE <bertin...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >>>> Please keep us informed of your off road ride experiences. I am still
> >>>> tempted by a Hunqapillar to build up as a ss off road bike, to
> >>>> complement the Fargo, but I want something that feels lighter and
> >>>> nimbler (the Fargo is lovely but it is heavy at 33 lb with the fat
> >>>> wheelset).
>
> >>>> I am rather put off by the extra diagonal, but that may be overweighed
> >>>> by the trademark Rivendell ride quality, so I am particularly
> >>>> interested in how the H feels in cornering and acceleration.
>
> >>>> Or I may just get a ti or -- gawd 'elp us -- crabon fibre frame.
>
> >>>> Why the so-high bars? Not criticizing, just curious. I find that I
> >>>> need a certain torso angle and forward reach, otherwise I feel as if I
> >>>> can't get any power. I'm 56 so I'm no spring chicken, either.
>

> >>>> On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 10:32 PM, René Sterental <orthie...@gmail.com>

> >>>> patrickmo...@resumespecialties.com

> ...
>
> read more »

[Montclair BobbyB]

Rene:

FWIW I ride the 150s (making the choice for shorter reach)... I've
been super happy with the 150s, and have been comfortable riding long
distances on them.

In fact I get saddle fatigue before getting hand fatigue... tells me
my bars are probably correct for me.

Good luck!
BB

[Montclair BobbyB]

And BTW NICE BUILD!!!
BB

On Aug 2, 12:30 pm, Montclair BobbyB <montclairbob...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[René Sterental]

Thank you! I'm waiting for the 150 to come back in stock so for a couple of weeks, I'll be playing around with the 200. It almost feel perfect, but I feel my shoulder wanting to speak up... I'll test the 150 and decide. Glad to know you got them right for you!

 

René

[Geoff]

Hi René,

Thanks!

To answer your question, the Brooks Imperial is actually my very first Brooks saddle.  Before test riding bikes at Riv HQ, I also took my wife's Betty Foy around the block a few times to get a feel for her Brooks womens B17.  I know the saddle dimensions are a bit different than the mens B17, but at least riding on it gave me some idea as to how the saddle might "give" and feel to my sit bones after its break-in period.  I liked what I felt, both on her womens B17, as well as on the mens B17s on the Riv demo bikes.  

On my first couple of rides on the Hunq, the saddle did feel a bit hard but not objectionably so.  I rubbed one coat of Proofide on it after the second ride.  I'm happy to report that after about the sixth ride or so, the saddle began to "give" and I'm now feeling pretty comfortable.  I'm confident that after a few more rides, this saddle is going to be wonderful.  I can't really say whether the slot is doing the trick in keeping pressure off my perineum, or if it's more a function of the Brooks saddle design and shape.  All I know is that I'm not feeling the familiar numbing in the crotch area...so I'm very pleased.  =) 

[René Sterental]

That is always important!!!

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