What is the deal with the double top tubes?

[Kayakguy]

I haven't been to the Rivendell site for awhile and I see all these
double tubes. I looked for a post on here or on the site but found
nothing.

Is this standard now? I see pictures of the same model with double and
single tubes.

Thanks for filling me in.

[newenglandbike]

The double top-tube thing has been available on Rivendells for a long time I think, going way back to larger-sized customs, but first appearing on standard models with the AHH in larger sizes (67cm and up) if I'm not mistaken.     Then around 2009 the Bombadil came standard with it, to 're-triangulate' the frame due to the expanded geometry and tall head tube. 

[Kayakguy]

I knew about the Bombadil having a double, but I gues you are saying
all the "medium sizes like 58 or 60 would still be single? I hope
cause I don't much dig the double look.

[Peter Morgano]

Uhh, not to be a jerk but when was the last time you were on the site? I believe this has been the norm for at least the 4 years I have been poking around.  You could call RBW and see if they have your size in a singe TT, the old attic is full of surprises.

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[Kayakguy]

Well I guess it has been awhile since I have been there. I have been
enjoying riding my Rambouillet too much to feel the need to shop.
Probably should have spent less time riding and more time surfing.

Now I kind of want an Atlantis, or maybe a Hilborn or I don't know. A
light tourer I guess for commuting and dreaming about longer rides.
That way I can strip the rack off the Rambouillet and keep her slim.

> >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Seth Vidal]

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 11:16 AM, Kayakguy <beeh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Well I guess it has been awhile since I have been there. I have been
> enjoying riding my Rambouillet too much to feel the need to shop.
> Probably should have spent less time riding and more time surfing.
>
>  Now I kind of want an Atlantis, or maybe a Hilborn or I don't know. A
> light tourer I guess for commuting and dreaming about longer rides.
> That way I can strip the rack off the Rambouillet and keep her slim.
>

- Hilsens have optional double top tubes
- Atlantises don't have them at all
- Hillbornes in the larger sizes have them

If you don't like them you can get frames without them

If you do like them you're all set, too.

Riv gives you great options.

-sv

[robert zeidler]

Even rarer is the "diaga-tube" These will be collectors items one day.

[Peter Morgano]

Well I know there is no double TT on the Atlantis because it only goes so big, after that you are in Bomba/Hunqa country. The Sam's get double TT at what I would describe as a medium size, the 56 but the Hilsen doesnst go double TT until the huge sizes so depending on your size you might be stuck looking at the higher end stuff or hell go Yves Gomez and no TT!

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 11:16 AM, Kayakguy <beeh...@hotmail.com> wrote:

[robert zeidler]

I think that trying to apply logic to it is an exercise in futility. 

And I like that. 

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

Z-Man: the line about logic/futility gave me a good chuckle. As a bicycle professional, who frequently tries new bikes, new component setups, new accessories, etc, I often have people ask me "why did you do it THAT way?" as if they expect a sophisticated response that will be logically infallible and revolutionary to all cycling wisdom hereafter. "I just kinda like it", or "I like to try new things", are disappointing responses to those who prefer rigid categories of everything.

[Smitty]

Warning: Do not click this link... hideous double top tube inside.

[robert zeidler]

It's my fondest hope that, if asked, GP will say, "...because I felt like it". 

On Wednesday, May 9, 2012, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote:

Z-Man: the line about logic/futility gave me a good chuckle. As a bicycle professional, who frequently tries new bikes, new component setups, new accessories, etc, I often have people ask me "why did you do it THAT way?" as if they expect a sophisticated response that will be logically infallible and revolutionary to all cycling wisdom hereafter. "I just kinda like it", or "I like to try new things", are disappointing responses to those who prefer rigid categories of everything.

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[BSWP]

A great thing about a 2TT bike is how easily one can mount two pumps. Or, fit a trapezoidal bag in the space between the 2TT, for carrying cucumbers and salami.

- Andrew, Berkeley

[Smitty]

My last comment was kind of snarky, so in an effort to redeem myself... here's an actual sincere response... 

I went with 2TT on a whim. I was placing my order on the phone and Grant said something like "You can get 2tt on a 65 if you want." And I said something like "uuuuuuuhhhh... sure but only if I get a 2nd head badge too." He said sure and I think I heard him smile over the phone. 

2 things I've found about the under tube that I really like... it provides a place to rest the palm of my hand when I shift (DT shifters). And it gives a solid place to lift/shoulder the bike even with a pump under the upper top tube. 

This is sort of anecdotal and its just an "n" of 1 so it might just be wishful thinking on my part... I've heard hilsen owners talk about their bikes being flexy when carrying a load. I've had weekend size loads on my 2tt and it was solid. Mine got noticeably squirely when I had 60 pounds on the rear rack and 20 or so on the front but that was more me loading it up just to see what happened. Unloaded, I notice no stiffness difference between my 2tt and a friend's 1tt of the same size. But I buy into the idea that it adds stiffness when the bike is loaded.   

--Andy

On Wednesday, May 9, 2012 7:35:33 AM UTC-7, Kayakguy wrote:

[robert zeidler]

I already hold the patent on those functions. So if you mention them again, I'll have your legs broken. 

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[Kayakguy]

Well I did talk to Rivendell and the response was it is definately for
function in that Grant felt the bikes need to be a bit stiffer.

I don't know, it's growing on me. Being a vegetarian I am not sure I
could carry a salami there, but maybe I could get by with a cucumber
or Zuchinni!

[Leslie]

A fly rod. Every time I see a 2TT bike, I want to slip a fly rod in its tube in there. 

(Catch-n-release, since you're a vegetarian.)   (Well, I catch-n-release too, and am not.)

[Kelly]

Stop it Smitty .. every time I see that gorgeous AHH with the 2TT I think of buying one.. I don't need it.. and I don't have a 68 cm Atlantis yet.. damn that was pretty.

[William]

Why'd Grant do it?

A.  He felt like it

B.  It's functional

C.  He felt like it was functional

I'm sticking with C.  

[Kayakguy]

Haha...That's probably it to a T!

On May 9, 3:18 pm, William <tapebu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why'd Grant do it?
>
> A.  He felt like it
> B.  It's functional
> C.  He felt like it was functional
>
> I'm sticking with C.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, May 9, 2012 12:11:46 PM UTC-7, Kelly wrote:
>
> > Stop it Smitty .. every time I see that gorgeous AHH with the 2TT I think
> > of buying one.. I don't need it.. and I don't have a 68 cm Atlantis yet..
> > damn that was pretty.
>
> > On Wednesday, May 9, 2012 11:37:11 AM UTC-5, Smitty wrote:
>

> >> Warning: Do not click this link...<https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/32ZjPdesS2aeLkpWIS0SJtMTjNZETYm...>hideous double top tube inside.

>
> >> On Wednesday, May 9, 2012 7:35:33 AM UTC-7, Kayakguy wrote:
>
> >>> I haven't been to the Rivendell site for awhile and I see all these
> >>> double tubes. I looked for a post on here or on the site but found
> >>> nothing.
>
> >>> Is this standard now? I see pictures of the same model with double and
> >>> single tubes.
>

> >>> Thanks for filling me in.- Hide quoted text -

[dougP]

"Probably should have spent less time riding and more time surfing."

No, you've got your priorities straight. We've discussed the 2TT
subject ad nauseum here, & I doubt anyone changed their mind as a
result.

"Now I kind of want an Atlantis,..." The Atlantis is "...unchanged
since 1999.75...". There have been reports of additional rack
mounting eyelets on later versions but that's about it.

Get an Atlantis; you will not regret it. Grant hit the bullseye & is
unlikely to change his aim.

dougP

On May 9, 8:16 am, Kayakguy <beeho...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Well I guess it has been awhile since I have been there. I have been
> enjoying riding my Rambouillet too much to feel the need to shop.
> Probably should have spent less time riding and more time surfing.
>

>   or maybe a Hilborn or I don't know. A
> light tourer I guess for commuting and dreaming about longer rides.
> That way I can strip the rack off the Rambouillet and keep her slim.
>
> On May 9, 11:06 am, Peter Morgano <uscpeter11...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Uhh, not to be a jerk but when was the last time you were on the site? I
> > believe this has been the norm for at least the 4 years I have been poking
> > around.  You could call RBW and see if they have your size in a singe TT,
> > the old attic is full of surprises.
>
> > On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 10:56 AM, Kayakguy <beeho...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > I knew about the Bombadil having a double, but I gues you are saying
> > > all the "medium sizes like 58 or 60 would still be single? I hope
> > > cause I don't much dig the double look.
>
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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> > >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.-Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Darin G.]

Leslie, show me a Hunqa with some kind of Nitto or Nigel Smith device for securing a 4 piece rod and I will likely cash in my kid's college fund.  Saddlesack large in the back for the waders and boots, basket in front for the vest and you are definitely in business.

Oh, and it would have to be "Winston green."

D.G.

[Mike On A Bike]

It's OK to eat fish because they don't have any feelings.

[PATRICK MOORE]

Not true! My Beta fish would see me coming and rush up to the glass
and wave his fins at me.

He loved me.

More G-D feelings than the guinea pigs -- four legged chickens!

Riv content: must get daughter new gerbils to replace Clumsy who just died.

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Mike On A Bike <shalj...@guilford.edu> wrote:
> It's OK to eat fish because they don't have any feelings.
>

--

-------------------------
Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
-------------------------

A billion stars go spinning through the night
Blazing high above your head;
But in you is the Presence that will be
When all the stars are dead.

Rainer Maria Rilke, Buddha in Glory

[William]

was your fish named "Beta" of the genus Betta, by any chance?  Beta the Betta?

Mrs Botter put some bitter butter in the batter, but Mrs Botter's Betta Beta bet that better butter bought from a better Betta would make the batter better

[Peter Morgano]

My daughter named ours boy because he is blue.  I am sure their is some social construct commentary in there.

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[Montclair BobbyB]

Boffo banter, Bubba...

BTW dare we ignore all the variations-on-a-diagatube, including the
half-diagatube, full-diagatube, and the wild and crazy tentacular
diagatube??? I hope not....

Bobby "still diggin his straight TT Bomba" Birmingham

On May 10, 4:41 pm, William <tapebu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> was your fish named "Beta" of the genus *Betta*, by any chance?  Beta the

> Betta?
>
> Mrs Botter put some bitter butter in the batter, but Mrs Botter's Betta
> Beta bet that better butter bought from a better Betta would make the
> batter better
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, May 10, 2012 1:08:03 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> > Not true! My Beta fish would see me coming and rush up to the glass
> > and wave his fins at me.
>
> > He loved me.
>
> > More G-D feelings than the guinea pigs -- four legged chickens!
>
> > Riv content: must get daughter new gerbils to replace Clumsy who just
> > died.
>

> > On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Mike On A Bike <shaljia...@guilford.edu>

[Peter Morgano]

Bobby, I have been lusting over that old bomba for sale on the Riv site, but is the Bomba a real MTB or more of an all rounder? I am in between sizes on the Altantis so thought this would be a better fit for me but it will most likely be an urban explorer unless my dreams come true and I get to move out of NYC. I already have a MB2 that doesnt get ridden as much as my Hilsen because the fit is not as comfortable as i would like and I cant jack up the hbars anymore than I have now (I prefer hbars about an inch above seat level for urban riding).  Just wanting to pick you brain, if you dont want to answer on the list feel free to email me personally. Thanks.

 

Peter

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[Allingham II, Thomas J]

I have a Bombadil, too (although it's in a partially reassembled state right now), and the answer to your question depends on what you mean by a mountain bike.  It's a fabulous combination of stout and nimble and comfortable, and you can jam some big knobbies into it.  As someone said on this list early in the Bomba's existence, it goes exactly where you point it, at whatever speed.  I also have an MB-2, and the Bombadil does everything the MB-2 does, but better.  So if you think of the MB-2 as an MTB, the Bomba is definitely an MTB.  And that's exactly how Grant described it when the bike was announced.   

---

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Morgano
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 1:36 PM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: What is the deal with the double top tubes?

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[Peter Morgano]

Hmm, good point. I was looking at something more like an all rounder. I have a Hilsen but I am not getting any smaller I dont think so at 250lbs I am pretty much maxed out on that. My kid wants to go camping so was looking for something that was road comfy and could do some lugging. I know the Atlantis is the bike I am describing but I really dont want to go 26" wheels and dont think I would fit comfortably on the 58.  Also would like to re-use the 650b setup I am using on the Hilsen now if I do get a nother bike right now. I am not fortunate enough to have a wife who is understanding about needing multiple bikes so I have to keep it down to 2 unfortunately and she uses the MB2 as well because she feels more confident on the big tires. Anyone have an old 52cm Bomba sitting around? :) Cant hurt to ask.

[Kelly]

Peter,

I have a AHH as well. The Bombadil rides beautifully on the road. Road the west coast of Michigan last year on it. Wonderful is all I can say on 75 mile days. They carried our gear so this wasnt self contained either.. Just a testement to a great riding bike.

This photo is loaded for s240
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/6629313739/in/set-72157628701780997

Kellt

[Peter Morgano]

Trip looks epic, my daughter wants to go camping and loves being with me on the bike but it was not something we did as kids since my parents are city people so this will be a new adventure for us.  Of course she wants to bring her Ipad2, kinda missing the point of the whole thing but that is kids today, haha.  Was thinking of keeping the hetres and vo fenders to save some cash.  Unfortunately for me the Bomba is like the Atlantis, I only see them up for sale every now and then and not in 52 which is what I would need. I see there is a nice one on the bay but it has alot of extras I have already and wouldnt want to pay for again.  Also probably not best to buy myself a new bike on mothers day weekend, would definitley be dog house for me, haha.  That is unless someone has one for sale.....

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[ted]

I have a first gen 52 Bombadil, but its not just sitting around and
even if it were I wouldn't sell it cause before long I'd be riding it
again. I suspect you could wait forever for an inexpensive frame only
to show up for sale in the used market. If my experience is any guide
those of us who have em will be keeping em a long, long, long time. If
you can afford it and like the paint job perhaps you ought to grab the
silver and gold one in the riv web specials, or perhaps you could snag
that one off ebay and then part out the extra bits you don't use to
recoup some cash. With your weight, wanting to tote camping gear, and
preferring 650B over 26in wheels I think you would be very happy with
a Bombadil.

On May 11, 10:06 pm, Peter Morgano <uscpeter11...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Trip looks epic, my daughter wants to go camping and loves being with me on
> the bike but it was not something we did as kids since my parents are city
> people so this will be a new adventure for us.  Of course she wants to
> bring her Ipad2, kinda missing the point of the whole thing but that is
> kids today, haha.  Was thinking of keeping the hetres and vo fenders to
> save some cash.  Unfortunately for me the Bomba is like the Atlantis, I
> only see them up for sale every now and then and not in 52 which is what I
> would need. I see there is a nice one on the bay but it has alot of extras
> I have already and wouldnt want to pay for again.  Also probably not best
> to buy myself a new bike on mothers day weekend, would definitley be dog
> house for me, haha.  That is unless someone has one for sale.....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 12:30 AM, Kelly <tkslee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Peter,
>
> > I have a AHH as well.  The Bombadil rides beautifully on the road.  Road
> > the west coast of Michigan last year on it.  Wonderful is all I can say on
> > 75 mile days.  They carried our gear so this wasnt self contained either..
> > Just a testement to a great riding bike.
>
> > This photo is loaded for s240

> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/6629313739/in/set-721576287017...

[Peter Morgano]

All true points I believe.  I actually really dig the silver and gold on the web but the cheapo in me just cringes at paying full retail and have to wait on some back pay before I could justify it anyway. Maybe a call to Riv HQ is in order to put a deposit down though, would love to say I was the first owner of something in a way.  Maybe I would sell the MB2 then and get my wife a cute folder, shame she doesnt care about bikes at all so she doenst understand our obsession, haha.

[Montclair BobbyB]

Peter:

I regard my Bomba as a master of roads of all types and of moderate
offroad terrain... that's what I love about it. Everyone's definition
of mountain biking may be different. Based on my definition, I would
never take my Bomba on the same trails as I do my dedicated mountain
bike (which is also a steel-framed 29er, but much lighter, and set up
for rocky, rooty, twisty and steep terrain). To me the Bomba is as
mountain bikeish as it is roadish. And for the kind of riding you
describe it would be well-suited.

BTW as an urban assault bike it rules... Last year I rode my Bomba in
the Five Boro Tour... super comfy, even on the BQE and the Gowanus!!!

Peace,
Bobby

[Steve Palincsar]

On Sun, 2012-05-13 at 04:58 -0700, Montclair BobbyB wrote:
>
> BTW as an urban assault bike it rules... Last year I rode my Bomba in
> the Five Boro Tour... super comfy, even on the BQE and the Gowanus!!!

OK, I keep hearing that term, have no idea what YOU mean, but I'm pretty
sure you aren't thinking automatic weapons and RPGs as I am, and I'll
bet Stalingrad never even came into your mind. So what is "urban
assault" to you?

[Peter Morgano]

Haha,  for me it is more like urban survival and trying to not get run over out there.  I am so slow delivery guys and kids on xmart bikes blow by me.

[Steve Palincsar]

On Sun, 2012-05-13 at 18:20 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote:
> Haha, for me it is more like urban survival and trying to not get run
> over out there. I am so slow delivery guys and kids on xmart bikes
> blow by me.

so - that means armored tires and powerful flashing lights all over the
bike?

>
> On May 13, 2012 4:37 PM, "Steve Palincsar" <pali...@his.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 2012-05-13 at 04:58 -0700, Montclair BobbyB wrote:
> >
> > BTW as an urban assault bike it rules... Last year I rode my
> Bomba in
> > the Five Boro Tour... super comfy, even on the BQE and the
> Gowanus!!!
>
> OK, I keep hearing that term, have no idea what YOU mean, but
> I'm pretty
> sure you aren't thinking automatic weapons and RPGs as I am,
> and I'll
> bet Stalingrad never even came into your mind. So what is
> "urban
> assault" to you?
>
>
>
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[Peter Morgano]

Mad maxesque?  Haha,  no.  It's like my defensive driving instructor told me "assume everyone else on the road either doesn't see you or wants to kill you and you will live longer" not the most uplifting advice but on nyc streets it is a good mantra. Unfortunately there are not many  leisurely rides around here,  even the parks paths are filled with a mix of clueless morons and people going for that yellow jersey.  I miss riding in upstate ny,  trust me.

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[cyclotourist]

Blame Ivan Reitman for the confusion!

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[Peter Pesce]

That's the fact, Jack!

When I hear "Urban Assault Vehicle" I think of the Bill Murray / Harold Ramis classic "Stripes."

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[BSWP]

When I get money ahead, I'm going to add a second TT to my 66cm QuickBeam. I can feel a lateral flex when riding (fixed-gear, I'm always pedaling) and would not mind a stiffer ride.

- Andrew, Berkele