lights

[DON LYON]

I would appreciate a discussion of the various option of putting lights (front and rear) on my Sam H. I don't plan on doing much after dark riding but would like to have the illumination for dusk and dawn situation while touring. I am thinking of such things as: battery versus generator, brands, models, placement. Any insights would be appreciated. Benefitting from the experience of others will be a big help. Thanks Don

[PATRICK MOORE]

I used a very wide variety of battery lights and three types of generators, hub, bottle and bb. Here's my take:

If you ride just occasionally in the dark, battery lights -- if you choose well and IF you can remember to charge or replace the batteries as needed or bottles or bb dynamos are the best value.

If you ride a lot in the dark, hub dynamos are the best in that you get the worry free advantage of a dynamo with the almost complete absence of additional wheel resistance. That said, the best bottles and bb dynamos aren't *that" bad.

The LED headlights made by German companies seem to give more useful illumination than mega-candlepower non-shaped beams.

The brightest lights don't always give better useful illumination: I went from an early HID system with "XXX lumens" that blinded my distance vision by its excess of close-up brightness to 2 early "50 lumen" EO Tecs that let me see as well as the HID system.

The better Shimano hubs plus the IQ Cyo is the best combination of low drag, useful light, reliability, and cost.

Even cheap LED headlights -- the sub $40 kind -- are far, far FAR better now than they were 10 years ago.

On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 8:42 AM, DON LYON <don...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

I would appreciate a discussion of the various option of putting lights (front and rear) on my Sam H. I don't plan on doing much after dark riding but would like to have the illumination for dusk and dawn situation while touring. I am thinking of such things as: battery versus generator, brands, models, placement. Any insights would be appreciated. Benefitting from the experience of others will be a big help. Thanks Don

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[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

The expense of a dynamo system is considerable, and battery lights have gotten very good even at low price-points. Obviously, battery lights require more daily planning/conservation. It comes down to weighing the expense of the dynamo vs the inconvenience of keeping your batteries charged during your tours.

[Peter Pesce]

It's hard to beat a dynamo for reliability or convenience, but a full dyno set up is still a bit of an investment if you won't be using it regularly. However, you mention "touring" so it could be that even if you do most of your riding in daylight, not having to worry about batteries while you are out and about could make a dynamo system worthwhile for you. A decent headlight will eat batteries quickly, but if you only need "be seen" blinky lights then a set of batteries could last a whole tour with occasional use.

-Pete (dynamo powered as of this morning!) in CT

[Peter Morgano]

I do ride alot at night but not for hours at a time and have found my MiNewt 250 light with Gino mount to be a great fit. Even on the lowest setting it is bright enough to light up a dark bike path and will run for about 3 hours. Now take into consideration I am in NYC where it is rarely ever "pitch black".  on the brightest setting the light is crazy bright, which i only use in high traffic situations to make sure I am seen. It is defintely a "see and be seen light". Best part for me is tha it has a built in batter, which makes it kinda large but I dont have to run any wires or anything like that.  It was not a cheap light at 90 bucks but it charges in 5 hours, is sealed up tight to stop dirt and water and mounts securely.

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[Ron Mc]

I'm going to throw in a vote for Cygo lights for convenience - Expilion and Hot Shot combo.  They're inexpensive, lightweight, and go for hours and hours before needing a charge.  They plug into any USB, and a spare battery for the headlight is cheap enough if you want to carry a charged spare.  

Yes, you see them everywhere - it's for a reason.  Wouldn't claim they're the best lighting system for commuting, but a perfect choice for "in case I need a light"

[Kelly]

Don,

I would be of the camp that yells loudly for Dyno Hubs.  The cost of the lights and hub has gone down to fairly reasonable cost.   Great hubs can be had for 130 bucks, with headlights ranging from 50 to 150 covering a wide range of needs. 

In addition to always having light when needed, the hubs will offer the ability to charge phones, and other devices.   I bring this up as you mentioned touring.   We just got back from a tour through some very wet, muddy, very wet, very muddy, and beautiful conditions.   None of the 4 bikes with dynos had any issues.  Add to this the ability to charge our phones while riding came in very handy as we were in primitive camp grounds.   

Consider the rainy dark day when the lights are on for the entire day.  Batteries aren't going to cut it without access to power and the time to charge them.  It's not just about night time riding.   

In my opinion it's the best investment one can make for their bike when touring. 

Kelly

On Monday, October 8, 2012 9:42:32 AM UTC-5, Don wrote:

[PATRICK MOORE]

I'll reiterate again that, if you don't plan to ride in the rain a lot, a bottle dynamo is not a bad choice. I personally would have chosen a bb dynamo or even one of these:

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/dymotec.asp

Even old Soubitezes are not bad. And bb dynamos if you can find them (I had an old Sanyo on the Herse) are even better than bottles, IME.

PJW has wire rollers for use in the rain.

For my Fargo (which is not my principal nightime bike) except that I use both 35 mm and almost-65mm tires on the same bike. If I ever get another bike which sees only occasional night use, this is what I'd choose.

(The 12 volt dynamo, through the description of which you scrolled to get to the Dymotec6, is really wonderful but at the price why bother?)

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[Eric Norris]

I've been road testing a slightly different solution--the BikeCharge combination dynamo/light/USB charger.  My initial results are online here:

http://campyonlyguy.blogspot.com/2012/08/quick-bikecharge-impressions.html

I originally bought the BikeCharge to get the USB charging option, but I've been very pleased with the amount of light it throws.  It moves easily from bike to bike (within limits), and has worked very well on my primary bike.  The entire system is about $120 including shipping.

--Eric N

www.CampyOnly.com

CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com

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[PATRICK MOORE]

Whoops, I should make it clear that I'm not trying to contradict Kelly and only wish to say that, IME, bottles and bb dynamos are a very nice and relatively inexpensive option. 

[PATRICK MOORE]

I'll toss this one in, too: 

http://www.magniclight.com/magniclight/index.php/en/startseite/8-magnic-light-homepage-english

The claim that it puts out more light than any existing dynamo system is probably bogus, but the claim that (eventually) it will retrofit to your existing headlight is interesting.

Vapor at the moment, I think, and I guess it won't work with the carbon fiber rims on your Bombadil.

[IanA]

Dawn touring would be pretty hardcore.  Dusk touring, I understand, but is something to avoid, unless setting up camp in the dark is your aim (easier to hide!). Of course, if you're doing the B&B thing, a bit of dusk riding doesn't hurt, except you are much harder to see by other vehicles.  Normally best to tour in daylight.  Either way, all you should need is a good  head-light like a Petzl, a back up light (maybe a second headlight, like a Planet Bike headlight) and rear light (like a Planet Bike Superflash).  Rechargeable batteries and a smaller wall charger, depending on the length of the tour.

For commuting and randonneuring, it would be hard to beat a hub dynamo system.  As an example of component prices: - http://www.bike24.com/1.php?ontent=13&search=dynamo

A LX level Shimano dynamo with a Lumotec Cyo headlight is an economical combination.  I seem to remember Patrick Moore had a combo similar to this at one stage.  He might have some insights on this level of dynamo system.

[Kelly]

It's not hardcore to have a flat or mechanical and be riding in the dark.  During the last tour we road in total darkness two nights.  Lets add the nights that a bar or town is close enough to camp to go to for entertainment.  I see touring needing dyno's as much as randonneuring folks and more so than commuters who can charge batteries at night at home.   (Note my opinion based on how I tour)  Add in Summer tours with 100 degree days and night touring is the best bet to get some added miles without 

dealing with the extreme heat.  I've found nothing dangerous or wrong with night time riding on tour.  Once again my opinion.  

Kelly

[Anne Paulson]

Dawn touring makes tons of sense where it's very hot. Even non-hardcore tourists quickly learn the benefit of avoiding 100 degree heat in the full sun.

-- Anne

[Steve Palincsar]

On Mon, 2012-10-08 at 09:16 -0700, Don wrote:
> Thanks for the replies thus far they are helpful. I am seriously
> lacking in knowledge here so bear with me. If I convert to a hub
> dynamo then I will need to purchase the hub and have it installed in
> my wheel (read)?

Yes you will need to have a wheel built around a hub dynamo.



> And I will need to purchase a light or lights (front and rear) to go
> with it? Correct?

Correct.


> Given that option what brands and models are suggested and where can
> one purchase these so that I can begin to get some kind of a cost
> estimate to this.

http://peterwhitecycles.com is an excellent source of information. On
his site look under Products -> Lights

[Kenneth Stagg]

It also makes sense for morning people like me.  I'm already awake, I love sunrise, I love riding.  Put them all together....

-Ken

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[PATRICK MOORE]

I've got the dynohub ending in "71" with the Cyo -- have used this combo on several bikes -- and yes, it is a very good setup. Frankly, the only reason I have something better on my commuter Riv (SON 20 and Edeluxe) is vanity.

On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 12:47 PM, IanA <atte...@gmail.com> wrote:

 

A LX level Shimano dynamo with a Lumotec Cyo headlight is an economical combination.  I seem to remember Patrick Moore had a combo similar to this at one stage.  He might have some insights on this level of dynamo system.

I would appreciate a discussion of the various option of putting lights (front and rear) on my Sam H. I don't plan on doing much after dark riding but would like to have the illumination for dusk and dawn situation while touring. I am thinking of such things as: battery versus generator, brands, models, placement. Any insights would be appreciated. Benefitting from the experience of others will be a big help. Thanks Don

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[IanA]

Sure - don't get me wrong, I've toured round the clock and have ridden in the pitch black.  I still would maintain that basic lighting is enough unless you're making a habit of night riding.  But, riding in the dark on tour is not common.  Riding at dawn does make a lot of sense especially when hot or you've got lots of miles to cover, but it's not really a time when high efficiency lights are needed.  This is based only on personal experience (including one long tour of two years/32,000km) and there are as many opinions as tourers.   

[lungimsam]

I use a Nite Rider minewt.600 on my Bleriot and I commute after dark.

 

Wireless, small, and a powerful 600 lumens. I would not use less than 600 lumens for riding at night.

 

It comes with a mount for the helmet, and also with a clip on mount for the bars/stem.

 

Works fantastic for me.

 

 

 

 

 

On Monday, October 8, 2012 10:42:32 AM UTC-4, Don wrote:

[PATRICK MOORE]

Note that, beyond a certain surprisingly low minimum, it is less the gross output of a light that makes it desirable for commuting than the shape of the beam. I get much more usable illumination from a 2.4-3W LED in my Cyo or Edeluxe than from the insanely more bright HID light I had some years ago.

"The headlight that I use (a generator headlight called the IQ Cyo) is 60 Lux, but uses a LED that only puts out around 150 lumens (CREE XR-E). The lenses just do a good job of putting the light on the ground in front of the cyclist, and not wasting it lighting up trees that are over the road or trail. The MS has 6x the number of lumens, but puts less light onto the ground becuase the light is being distributed everywhere. A lot of that scattered light is going into the eyes of oncoming cyclists and driver's, blinding them."

Another big factor in the efficacy of a headlight: how well the close-up lighting is graduated compared to that in the distance. A very bright uniform beam giving very bright close-up illumination is self defeating since it dazzles you so that you can't see as well in the distance.

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[Will]

I bought my boys wheels with Shimano Alfine hubs last year. Harris sells them. They are great. There's so little drag you can run lights full time. Running lights during the day is worth it. You are very visible.  

Around the holidays, Harris usually offers a good shipping promotion.

http://harriscyclery.net/product/harris-cyclery-generator-front-wheel-sun-cr-18-rim-shimano-alfine-hub-36-dt-spokes-2982.htm

On Monday, October 8, 2012 9:42:32 AM UTC-5, Don wrote:

[Peter Morgano]

I got my rear 650b alfine wheel done by Harris and have bought wheels off them in the past. They were great. I was looking at longleaf for a 650b dyno front wheel maybe for xmas though. http://www.longleafbicycles.com/products/dynohubs-and-lighting/dynohubs/shimano-dh-3n72-dh-3d72/

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[charlie]

A generator front and rear light system is the best thing I have ever done for my bicycle. It turned my ride into a useful vehicle rather than a fair weather day rider. Lights on all the time is a good safety feature. I notice auto drivers see me sooner especially when I'm in the shadows, even on a sunny day. If you have a short (five mile or less) commute a high quality battery set up will suffice ( Phillips headlight 80 Lux and maybe a 
Planet bike super flash rear)

[Peter Pesce]

I have a 3 mile commute on lit city streets and battery lights will easily suffice. I used a PB Superflash rear and 2W Blaze in front for 2 years with no ptoblem. Even though the beam pattern of the Blaze wasn't ideal, I loved that it had a psycho flash mode for daytime riding.
Nonetheless I upgraded to a dynamo system and tonight was my first ride home with it. It's very nice to just ride and go, with no battery anxiety. I have an IQ Cyo up front and a Toplight Line Plus Brake in the rear. Love them both so far, along with the SP hub dyno that's powering them.

Pete in CT

[Kelly]

Pete

How has the SP hub treated you. I just put one in service on my quickbeam and love it so far.

Kelly

[charlie]

I have the SP hub from VO with the clutch on my Surly......and a B&M Daylight Running light Fly headlamp and Toplight line tail light....it is nice to just ride along and know I have a constant running tail light and adequate head light. It even comes in handy in the daylight, at dusk and in the fog and rain etc. My visibility to others is improved and that makes my wife happier.

[Peter Pesce]

Kelly
In the 9 miles I've ridden it so far it's very nice! I have the PD-8 so no clutch on mine. I have no previous experience with any other dyno hub to compare it to, but I was really surprised taking it out of the box how small and light it was. Its barely larger than the XT hub that was on the bike before. The finish quality seems good, but 9 dry miles is no test of durability!
Riding, I cannot sense any drag or vibration, on or off. It just disappears.
The buying experience was very smooth. It got here in a week from Taiwan via regular mail.

Pete in CT

[PATRICK MOORE]

Good point: I always have backup front and rear, a cheap LED 3 AAA lamp in front (eg, Planet Bike Blaze) and two LEDs in the rear one run steady, the other in blinkie. I generally turn my battery headlight on only at intersections because the standlights on the Cyo or Edeluxe dim quickly. I turn it off after the intersection. 

The QR front cheapie also serves as a flashlight if (God forbid) I have to stop and change a tube mid-ride.

Next question: what do y'all use for reflection? Me, generally an ankle strap reflector and a rear triangle like those Riv sells. I've used a Sam Browne but I find it annoying to put on. REI has a big reflective night cycling vest with built in blinkies; you only have to add the WHOOO-whooo-WHOOO-whooo siren and the little helmet propeller.

http://www.rei.com/product/842481/amphipod-xinglet-flash-led-reflective-vest

And these: 

http://www.amazon.com/Tacx-Dropbar-HeadLight-Taillight-Directional/dp/B009HSV1RM

Apparently you can use them as turn signals too.

Curious -- an idle curiosity: who has the most lights, blinkies and reflective gear on himerher and bike, of this list?

Me, I find things like that annoying overkill, but then I've not used them -- has anyone?

On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 8:38 PM, Jimmy Hutch <ji...@jimmyhutchinson.com> wrote:

 

I only use cheap battery lights for back-up purposes.

[Peter Morgano]

I say get a couple of rolls of 3M reflective tape from Rivendell and put it "tastefully" on your bike and helmet and you are doing good to at the very least be seen in a darkness situation where all light fails.  I can see mine shining off my fenders as I sit here "working."

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[Peter Pesce]

I buy DOT reflective tape at the auto parts store. It has alternating red and white sections so I can cut pieces of the proper color for front or rear reflectors. The adhesive is very tenacious, too. The white color blends very nicely with aluminum parts. I even found a spot on the back of my helmet for a red piece.

My schwalbes have reflective sidewall stripes. My new dynamo tail light has a big reflector built in. I wear a pant leg strap for sartorial reasons, as well as reflection, and I have a great, lightweight reflective sash I got from MEC that I can throw on over anything if I need added bling. The only downside is the sash uses the reflective printed cloth material which doesn't work very well wet, rather than the smooth, vinyl-y stuff that is not affected by water.

Patrick - I think this guy's trailer wins your contest: http://youtu.be/U6KnjN7WLyA  

Though he's not on the list AFAIK!

-Pete in CT

[charlie]

Reflective sidewalls on my Marathon Supremes, velcro ankle reflector to keep my pants out of the chain, red reflector tape on the rear fender and white tape on the front head tube. My rain jacket, helmet and Carradice bag have a bit of reflective material on them also and last but not least both front and rear light lenses have built in reflectors. I've often thought of stitching reflective fabric on the backs of my gloves shaped like arrowheads for when I signal......just haven't done it yet.

[Bruce Herbitter]

RUSA requires adequate reflective wear on rando rides, and it's better to be seen and not hit than the reverse. No propeller beanies yet though.  Sam Allen belts look cool, but vests are more visible.  The cheapie DOT spec ones work fine on a budget.

Here's one under $10 and there are many variants with other features to look at:

http://www.esafetystore.com/GroupInformation/GroupID/10774

On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 11:37 PM, charlie <cl_...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Reflective sidewalls on my Marathon Supremes, velcro ankle reflector to keep my pants out of the chain, red reflector tape on the rear fender and white tape on the front head tube. My rain jacket, helmet and Carradice bag have a bit of reflective material on them also and last but not least both front and rear light lenses have built in reflectors. I've often thought of stitching reflective fabric on the backs of my gloves shaped like arrowheads for when I signal......just haven't done it yet.n ankle strap reflector and a rear triangle like those Riv sells. I've used a Sam Browne but I find it annoying to put on. REI has a big reflective night cycling vest with built in blinkies; you only have to add the WHOOO-whooo-WHOOO-whooo siren and the little helmet propeller.

[Bruce Herbitter]

The cover of the current issue of American Randonneur has some typical reflective gear shown on some cyclists.

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 6:02 AM, Bruce Herbitter <bruce.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

RUSA requires adequate reflective wear on rando rides..

[jimD]

Kent Petersen suggests these:

http://www.gloglov.com

I've been using them for ~ 3 years now and have yet to be run over.

These were born as a kickstarter project, pricey but interesting:

http://revolights.com

-JimD

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[Lynne Fitz]

Love these very reflective mudflaps: http://www.rainydaybiking.com/
On Bleriot: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lynnefitz/6126432644/

[pam]

I have the MiNewt 600.  I tried a Cateye then the Princeton EOS but neither were bright enough.  Oddly, since I ride in semi lit areas, the dimmer lights did nothing and I needed a brighter light to see where I'm going.  It's the contrast of bright soccer field lights but I'm on the path that's not lit and I couldn't see.  If it's pitch black, dimmer lights are ok but if you have semi light then I actually need a brighter light to make any difference.  You won't be disappointed with a really bright light and you can ride anytime.  600 lumens on high w/1 1/2 hr run time; 400 lumens on med w/3 hrs run time; 275 lumens on low w/4 1/2 hrs run time; total charge time is 4 1/2 hrs; no wires to run; USB rechargeable.

Lezyne makes a pretty bright one but not as bright but nicer looking.

[PATRICK MOORE]

Leslie: different people have different eyes with different needs -- I for example have very bad night vision, explained by an ophthalmologist as the result of small pupils -- but many have claimed that very bright but unfocused lights can actually be counterproductive. I mentioned before my experience with an early HID system that was as bright, at least, as a car headlight: it was too bright close-up which made its distant beam much less effective. I found, even with my poor night vision, that less bright lights actually let me see better on an unlit bike path.

I have no experience riding off road with very powerful lights; some say that this is where they shine (so to speak).

That said, there is some merit to blindingly powerful lights when you ride atr night in the face of oncoming traffic, whose headlights tend to overwhelm all but the brightest bike lights. That said, in my own riding environment, there are only a couple of places where this is a real bother, and this is where I ride on a bike path adjacent to heavy traffic moving in the opposite direction. On other routes where I ride on the same side as auto traffic, thus separated from oncoming traffic by a lane, I don't have this problem -- this is the reason for auto low beams.

The best lamps I've used are focused beam German ones like the Edeluxe and Cyo, but even much inferior lamps have worked, such as a pair of 50 lumen EOSes (this was some 8 years ago, when the EOS claimed 50 lumens each).

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[Allingham II, Thomas J]

I have a Lezyne battery light (rechargeable) on my Mystery Bike, and it’s absolutely terrific.  I think the model is Super Drive something or other – 400 or 500 lumens, can’t remember, but it’s very bright and is a wonderful complement to a dynamo light (I have a Supernova on that bike), and I suspect would be great as a standalone light as well.   As Pam notes, it’s not the prettiest light, but it’s really excellent on functionality.

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