Brake Installation Experience

[Shaun Meehan]

Hi all!

It's been awhile since I've posted to the list. I recently decided to sell my Atlantis frame and fork, and I replaced it with a Long Haul Trucker. I had an experience when I was building up the LHT tonight that I wanted to share, because I know this list includes a lot of steadfast cantilever devotees. After I got the fenders, wheels, bar and stem installed; I went to install my Paul Touring Canti brakes. These are among the best and easiest-to-install cantilevers that I've ever used. Still there was considerable fiddling about getting them set up. I installed the levers and went to wire up the brakes when I realized I didn't have a font cable hanger for a 9/8" steerer tube. Ugh! Figured I'd have to pick one up sometime this week.

It then occurred to me that I had a perfectly good set of linear pulls along with a set of long-pull, Dia-Compe aero levers stashed away somewhere. If I use those, I don't need a hanger at all. This is a Surly not a Rivendell so I shouldn't be subject to too much ridicule for using linear pulls. So I somewhat reluctantly removed the Pauls and dug out the linear pulls (Avid Magnesium Single Digits) and long-pull levers. I was in the process of installing the front V-brake when I realized I was done! I literally laughed aloud! It's been a long time since I've used linear pulls and I forgot how easy they are to set up. I installed the lever and cable and did a "spin-and-grab" test and the brake felt solid with good power on the first try with no messing around. Now I remember why I felt like it was weird going back to (what I considered to be) archaic cantilevers when I got into the Rivendell world. I didn't see a single picture of a Riv with linear pulls when I bought the Atlantis, so I figured, "when in Rome...".

Anyway I've got a set of silver Paul Touring Cantis that I'm going to list for sale once I take a few pictures. Complete with straddle cables, mounting hardware, and I think some spare  o-rings. Although, I recommend that you don't buy them and that you get yourself a snappy set of linear pulls! I'll list the brakes in a separate post once I take some pictures. I've got some additional parts I'm going to sell too.

Cheers!
Shaun Meehan

[Peter Pesce]

Youll find many linear pul fans here!

I have mini-Vs on my road-I-fied Quickbeam and they are great. They work very nicely with the normal Tektro drop bar levers. Even better if you add a barrel adjuster noodle.
I have linear pull brakes on my LHT also and they work wonderfully for my commute and utility duties.

Pete in CT

[PATRICK MOORE]

1. Yes, one is amazed when one first sets up Vs -- so easy! Like
threadless stems in this regard. That said, the best (= wide profile)
cantis I've used, properly set up, match the Vs in power and modulate
better. Ditto compared to wire pulled disks. But they ain't as easy to
install!

2. Atlantis, considered the ne plus ultra of all rounders, for a
Surley? What gives? Why? Pray explain.

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[Shaun Meehan]

I'm also a fan of the threadless headset and stem set-up. I had the Atlantis repainted a couple of years ago and asked the painter (who is also a very proficient frame builder) to convert it to 1" threadless; but he wasn't able to find a long enough threadless steerer for the Atlantis (68cm). And I didn't want to spend the money to have one custom made.

The reason I sold the Atlantis is because, from my perspective, it was a little too "precious" and refined for the type of riding I've been doing the last several years. I've been riding a lot of gravel, often in adverse conditions. And I found I didn't deal well with such a gorgeous frame getting beat up by that type of riding. That, and this year Surly introduced the LHT in a 64cm, along with the Ogre, which is available in a 24" frame size. The sale of the Atlantis frame and fork funded the purchase of the LHT frameset plus a good portion of a complete Ogre (custom build).

I loved the Atlantis! It's a fantastic bike. I just couldn't deal with the beating it was taking. Especially after the repaint! And now I've got the Ogre for gravel riding and the LHT for commuting and pavement rides.

Shaun

[Eric Platt]

Have V brakes on my Sam Hillborne for the past couple years.  And your post today got me to order them for the SimpleOne.  I don't have an issue with modulation.

Now, Paul neo-retro might be the best I've used.  But for cost/benefit, my preference is now linear pull.  (And I used to be the biggest canti fan out there.)

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

Not to rehash old arguments, but cantilevers have a lot going against them compared to linear-pulls. Obviously, cantilevers have more history and have cemented a certain nostalgic/aesthetic following, and there's nothing wrong with favoring that if that's your position. IMO the "modulation" argument is overblown/nonsense and mostly thrown in as a function-based argument by those who really just prefer the nostalgia/aesthetics of cantilevers. To each his or her own, but whenever I ride or work on a bike with cantilevers, I feel that v-brakes would be an improvement in ease of set-up and adjustment, and in stopping power to hand-strength ratio.

Anecdote: after years with cantilevers, my first hard stop with v-brakes was a (slightly scary) revelation. THIS is what an adequately powerful brake feels like! The hard-stop potential may be what the modulation people are talking about. For me, modulating my grip strength and awareness of the stopping power was a quick and effortless process. I live in Minneapolis where curvy mountain passes are few and far between. Maybe modulation is less of an issue here than it is for skinny guys who do brevets in the Cascades and have a bias toward antique bike technology. Not that there's anything wrong with that! I live in a flatter place, and would put the latest abd greatest hydraulic disc brakes on all my bikes if it was possible.

[dougP]

I'll add an observation on the "ease of set-up of V-brakes" question.
I've recently converted my Atlantis to V-brakes after several years
with Tektro 720 cantis. These are quite simple Shimano V-brakes with
the only adjustment being a small screw for spring tension. While
everything does go together quickly & easily, the final adjustment to
get the pads within 1 mm of the rim per Shimano's instructions is
quite tedious and fiddly. Granted, my wheels are not new and probably
have at least 1 mm of wobble, but the cantis were a bit more forgiving
in this respect.

In the course of this adventure I did learn how many arm lengths are
available (well, on the various mfgs websites at least), from 80 mm to
107 mm. Working around rack struts requires a bit of thought,
regardless of the type of brake.

The end result is worth it both from all around better braking and
getting the brakes out of the way. The rear was interfering with
luggage.

dougP

On Jul 16, 9:24 am, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <thill....@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Michael_S]

for some reason, most  V brakes are very unattractive to me. The symmetry of a nice cantilever brake or a centerpull is much more pleasing to my eye.

Having ridden every type in my 30+ years I don't see much difference in braking power on any good quality brake with dual pivot mounts.   I don not own any bike with a single pivot caliper brake for that reason.

ansd those new Paul mini-moto's are the cat's pajamas...

~mike

[Brewster Fong]

On Monday, July 16, 2012 11:27:57 AM UTC-7, Michael_S wrote:

for some reason, most  V brakes are very unattractive to me. The symmetry of a nice cantilever brake or a centerpull is much more pleasing to my eye.

Having ridden every type in my 30+ years I don't see much difference in braking power on any good quality brake with dual pivot mounts.   I don not own any bike with a single pivot caliper brake for that reason.

ansd those new Paul mini-moto's are the cat's pajamas...

 

OK, let me get this straight, you don't like V-brakes because they're unattractive. However, you like Paul's mini-moto and consider them the "cat's pajamas?"  Since I've never heard that term, I presume you like the looks of the Paul's mini-moto. But, do you realized that Paul's mini-motos are V-brakes.....:) Good Luck!

[Peter Morgano]

Mini motos look good but it is hard to get any concrete answer on what kind of clearance they have for fenders and big tires. V-brakes always make me think of my mother in law's beach cruiser, which mind you does stop on a dime with her ahem "generous" body on it but they just have such an xmart quality to them.  Oh and BTW http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cat's_pyjamas 

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[William]

Peter, do NOT expect me to start using "The Dog's Bollocks" in polite conversation, despite what wiktionary tells me.  

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[Allingham II, Thomas J]

<My> dogs' bollocks are barkin'...

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From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of William
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:39 PM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Brake Installation Experience

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[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

It's true that major bike manufacturers put v-brakes on a lot of lower-end bikes. Oddly, however, in terms of pure function, the cheapie $15 Tektros work as well as (maybe better than) the $130 Pauls or the fancier Shimanos. As far as aesthetic preferences, I guess I tend to look at the bike in its totality as a smart, functional build, rather than focusing on the inherent loveliness of each component.

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[dougP]

Paul's mini-moto is a nice, clean looking brake, and the noodle/
connector piece looks a lot tidier than Shimano's. Surely they can
give you the dimension from the pivot to the cable clamp? That's
important around chubby tires, racks & fenders.

On my 58 cm Atlantis, an 80 mm BMX mini-V clears a 700c x 40 mm
Schwalbe Marathon Supreme but not a 45 mm Schwalbe Marathon Plus, no
fenders involved. Jim Thill probably has experience with Vs on
fendered bikes with big tires.

dougP

On Jul 16, 1:10 pm, Peter Morgano <uscpeter11...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mini motos look good but it is hard to get any concrete answer on what kind
> of clearance they have for fenders and big tires. V-brakes always make me
> think of my mother in law's beach cruiser, which mind you does stop on a
> dime with her ahem "generous" body on it but they just have such an xmart

> quality to them.  Oh and BTWhttp://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cat's_pyjamas

> >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Peter Pesce]

I was just barely able to get 80mm minis to clear a 35mm tire and fender on my QB. I eventually switched to 85's. Both seem to work fine with normal-pull brake levers.
Aesthetically, the styling of the v-brake arms themselves is a little too fussy, but I like the clean, tucked-in look better than the arms of wide-profile cantis sticking out in the breeze. I do like the symmetry of cantis, and thought the noodle would bother me, but it looks no different to my eye than the off-center cable on a sidepull brake.

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> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

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[ted]

Yes indeed they can, and when I asked previously they did.
me:
How long are the arms from the center of the pivot mount to the cable
clamp / quick release?
them:
That distance measures 83mm. Please let me know if you have any
questions.

Cheers,

Kate

Kate Carmichael
PAUL Component Engineering

> > >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.-Hide quoted text -

[ted]

"Not to rehash old arguments, but cantilevers, but ..."
Followed by, of course, said rehash.

On Jul 16, 9:24 am, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <thill....@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

I'll admit that I occasionally like to kick the ant-hill. :)

[Mark Chandler]

I can't speak to the Mini Motos' width, but the arms measure 83mm (center of mounting bolts to brake cable).

---

Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 16:10:24 -0400

Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Brake Installation Experience

From: uscpet...@gmail.com
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com