[RBW] Riv-riding motorcyclists?

[Andrew Johnson]

I was over at RBW today, getting some brake parts and Newbaum's, and had a chance to talk to a fellow Quickbeam owner, who happens also to be a fellow motorcyclist. He rides a late 70's Ducati, and I ride a BMW 1150 GS. I noted how easy it is to slip back and forth between cultures, one motorized, the other powered by ham 'n eggs, but both joined by strong commonalities: balance, traction, dodging cagers and potholes and deer...

Any other motorcyclists on this list? What's your bici/moto seat-time ratio? Mine has been about 1:20 over the past decade, but is quickly becoming 1:2 with a new commute.

- Andrew, Berkeley

[Scott Postlewait]

The commonalities are really wonderful.
Had a 1977 RD400 (fun, crazy moto!) that, along with my old Motobecane Grand touring, was my main transport for years. Then rescued and rebuilt a 1975 CB750. After kids, sold the motos but kept cycling.
However, 2 summers ago bought a used scooter - SYM HD200. I miss the motos, but this scooter makes me laugh almost every time I ride it, it's such a different experience I call it my George Jetson transporter.

Scooter has become my go-to commute on days when time is at a premium.

Scott, Seattle

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[William]

I know what a pothole is

I know what a deer is

but I don't know what a cager is

I've never driven a motorcycle, so that's maybe why?

[newenglandbike]

car = cage

:)

[newenglandbike]

I used to ride motorcycles.   Most of my buddies and I rode BMWs,  hondas, or Triumph bikes.    I had a suzuki (dirt bike) and a triumph street bike.      I used to love old airheads and k-bikes too.     In August 2005 two of my mates were killed, within 4 weeks of each other, riding bikes.    My one buddy had been riding since he could walk, and was about as safe and smart a rider as one could know.    He was clipped at about 30mph by a 87 year old woman in a sedan making a left hand turn in front of him, and died in the hospital.      My other buddy was killed by excessive speed late on a Thursday night on his way home after hanging out with a bunch of us.       The funerals were each attended by a deep lot of motorcycling friends, non-riding friends, and family.   I still rode for about 2 years afterward, but never was as into it.   I have always ridden bicycles, mainly bmx, and became motor free a couple of years ago.

[William]

I should have checked urbandictionary.com like normal people:

2.	cage	124 up, 22 down
	If you are motorcyclist, a car. It was snowing today so I left the Gixxer in the garage and drove my cage to work. buy cage mugs & shirts by eric Jan 11, 2005 share this add a video

[William]

1.	cager	520 up, 67 down
	a popular word among motorcyclists and bicyclists for four wheeled motor vehicle drivers. The term is often used in a derogative sense, because the car body effectively forms a cage, isolating the said driver from having to interact with other road users.  The term was coined by motorcyclists. Some ignorant cager nearly hit me while I was biking. Idiot obviously wants a U-lock to the face. buy cager mugs & shirts motorcyclist cyclist u-lock justice crackberry moron  by Falkon Nov 6, 2006 share this add a video

[PATRICK MOORE]

I'm an outsider looking in for this thread, but I've long been interested in getting a motorized two wheeler. Not that I need another project with the trike and Fargo (unless it sells) and the Herse all having plans, then the body of the Acadiane, but I like to ask this question of motorcyclists:

For someone who would use it mostly for urban and suburban riding, including 60 mph, six lane boulevards but (I think) not urban freeways, what sort of modestly priced bike would y'all advise a beginner to start with? I've been in scooters (nothing that couldn't easily reach and maintain 50 mph) and I have no interest in Harleys or clones or rice rockets -- was intrigued by the Ural sidecar combo I've seen here in town. Friends in high school (very early '70s) rode old British bikes; someone just told me today that old BMWs are fun and live forever; and a Jawa sounds neat. Or should I just save for something like the pristine original model Mini Cooper whose owner stopped to admire the Acadiane?

Helmets, yes? (I don't wear a bicycle helmet -- Dave Moulton has a reasonable and informative post today -- but I think motorcycle helmets are much more effective?)

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[Peter Pesce]

My ratio is infinity:1 these days. I used to ride motorcycles a lot, but haven't been on one in a few years. I did a number of summer tours with a buddy - one lap of Lake Superior, another to Nova Scotia and PEI, down to Deals Gap NC, but just kind of moved on. I still have a late 60's Ducati and a '72 Yamaha XS-2 (the "Oil-Tight Triumph" as it was called in its day) in the back of the garage waiting for me to get around to restoring them some day... If I add up what I spent on bicycles in the last couple of years I could easily have gotten one of them back on the road!

-Pete (pedal, previously petrol)

[Corwin]

It's been awhile since my last ride - but I rode a BMW K75S. Started
in grad school - '87. Eventually rode the bike to Colorado when we
moved east, and back to California when we moved west. Having watched
numerous "cagers" do incredibly unwise things directly in front of me
(often imperiling my life), I feel safer on a bicycle.

Corwin

[Liesl]

I rode motorbikes for about 20 years, mostly cross-country tours with
a lot of miles and a lot of fun. Also did the Reg Pridmore Motorcycle
Racing School course. My main ride was a 1973 BMW R75/5 Long
Wheelbase with a toaster tank like this only with a little S faring:

http://bmwdean.com/r75-5.html

She's still in the garage and in lovely shape. SInce I've retired from
the sport, I should bring myself to selling her.

I retired from motorcycling in about 2000 for the following reasons:
1) danger – I realized my good skills were not improving with age, had
friends killed or maimed, and I realized that I was mortal; 2) my body
– I began having neck and knee trouble and at 5'2" and 115 pounds
(during the height of my riding career; I'm plumper now) it was a
wrestle moving a loaded bike around under 5 mph; 3) happiness – I fell
in love, no longer was interested in spending 100's of miles alone,
and got two big dogs who can't go motorcycle camping with me; and 4)
the environment – I can't justify having a pastime that's about
burning fossil fuel, and 5) health – bicycling is so good for me!

I've also found that bicycling fulfills my 2-wheel jones both in
adventuring and in lovely gear. That's a big part of my love for
things Riv. Still have the dogs/camping problem though.

Patrick, it's wonderful when it's good, and deadly when it's bad. The
older you are, the more you increase your risk, especially if you're a
newcomer. I don't always wear my helmet on my bicycle. On a
motorcycle, I always *always* wore a full-face helmet, boots, gloves,
long pants, and a leather jacket if under 85 degrees. And take a
Motorcycle Foundation Safety course.

liesl

[Montclair BobbyB]

Motorcycles surround me... My brother owns a '49 Harley Knucklehead
with awesome leather bags and he also owns a custom mid-70s Triumph
(chopped).
Another owns a BSA project bike that actaully may one day be rideable.
One of my best friends has a serious woody for old BMWs and owns at
least 4 of them.
A handful of my neighbors are freshly recovering from their mid-life-
crisis-Harleys...
The influences have definitely been present... but somehow ...the
motorcycle bug has eluded me.. until now, that is.

By Spring I resolve to be riding a classic BMW of some kind... maybe a
1972-1978 Boxer Twin R-series,
or a late 70s Flying Brick... just for sheer enjoyment, not commuting,
not to ride cross-country. Just to own, to ride, and to love.
I simply haven't found the right one yet... (But it's out there and
make no mistake, it will be mine, oh yes)...

[RonaTD]

Moto Guzzi V7 Classic. Great all around bike. Easy loafer around town,
as much fun as I'll ever be able to handle out in the country. Not a
super slab mega miler, but I went out to the Twin Cities and back
(almost 800 miles) in a 2-day trip this fall and survived.

I haven't kept track of the seat time ratio. Might be about even, a
bit more on the bicycle. That 2-day trip was a lot of seat time, but
not as much as the 400k rando last June.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI

[benzzoy]

I used to ride motorcycles. My last one was a HD Sportster 1200
Sports with a nice solo seat and quiet Supertrapp exhaust. Yup, an
anti-HD exhaust that is probably quieter than stock. It went away
after I got married and especially when the little one came along, but
I still have my nice leather gear and helmets as keepsakes.

Back during those relatively carefree days, my bicycle mileage was
super-high, hitting 5-digits annually. So even though I ride my
motorcycle somewhat often, it was a fairly puny ratio in favor of the
bicycles.

Maybe when I retire...

[andrew hill]

Hi Peter,

I recommend a mid-power, mid weight, upright seated position, torquey bike.  e.g. i think the importance of upright riding position, fairly neutral foot/weight position and handling, are similar in the Rivendell rider and motorcycler world.  maybe that's just me.  and I'll stretch by equating a combo of torque and flickability to bottom bracket drop.  ;)

anyways, you get the most control of the bike with those details, and the most stability.  it's important to have a bike that's forgiving in it's handling and acceleration curve while you are learning, that gives you good visibility.

Eg. something like a Triumph, or Honda CB-style could be good to learn.  That Yamaha would be a great one to play with in terms of "learning" to do around-town handling, if it runs.... but might not be big enough for safe / secure feeling highway use.  

You could get a decent used new-generation 750-1000cc Triumph for 3-6K, depending on where you are.  And they don't leak oil anymore.   I've got a 2000 Triumph Thunderbird with 26K miles on it and very few problems, 900cc / 550lb bike / 6 gears ... Plenty big enough for anything.

-a

On Nov 7, 2011, at 2:46 PM, Peter Pesce wrote:

My ratio is infinity:1 these days. I used to ride motorcycles a lot, but haven't been on one in a few years. I did a number of summer tours with a buddy - one lap of Lake Superior, another to Nova Scotia and PEI, down to Deals Gap NC, but just kind of moved on. I still have a late 60's Ducati and a '72 Yamaha XS-2 (the "Oil-Tight Triumph" as it was called in its day) in the back of the garage waiting for me to get around to restoring them some day... If I add up what I spent on bicycles in the last couple of years I could easily have gotten one of them back on the road!

-Pete (pedal, previously petrol)

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[Stonehog]

Yes.  2000 Triumph Speed Triple. I generally ride the moto once a week year-round to keep the battery fresh.  The rest is by bike.  I still watch the GP series, but am way more into the bicycles these days. 

Mobile Brian Hanson

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[Peter Pesce]

Think you meant this for Patrick, but good advice nonetheless !

Pete

[Ray Shine]

Like many of you, I am also a decades riding motorcyclist, albeit no longer.  In 1976, July 4th, I had my photo taken at the top of the pass leading into Jackson, Wyoming. In the photo, I am posed beside my old 1969 Harley (what a piece of junk that ride was) in front of the elevation sign, in a blowing summer snowstorm. Immediately following that shot, I rode into Jackson and managed to grab one of the last available motel rooms, which I shared with two bicyclists who also got stranded in Jackson after the authorities closed all the passes in and out of town for a day and a half due to ice and snow!  Jackson was full of all sorts of two-wheel riding folks, as that was also the first year of the Bike-Centennial, later to become, I believe, the Trans-Am route.  What I wouldn't give to now take a second photo on the same pass, in a summer snowstorm, with me posed beside my Atlantis! (Also, what I wouldn't give to have those 35 years back, too!)

---

From: andrew hill <neur...@gmail.com>
To: Peter Pesce <pete...@gmail.com>; rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, November 7, 2011 9:35:08 PM
Subject: Re: [RBW] Riv-riding motorcyclists?

[robert zeidler]

Just rode through Beartooth Pass for the 4th time. Nice!

FWIW, I've mentioned the the values that are stated @
www.airheads.org. They seem very much comparable to the values of the
Riv group.

RGZ

[Mark R.]

I have been riding motorcycles since 1990. For a while, about seven
years, i did not have a car, just my bicycles and my moto. I needed a
small truck and got out of them in 97, then got back into motos in 04.

We had taken a road trip from Cali to Wqshington state, and while
there, I brought my bicycle and did a century in Redmund. Tired the
next day, we rented scooters on San Juan island, and had a blast. With
my daughter on the back. she told me that if I got a scooter, i could
take her to school everyday. done

It was a 150cc Vespa, and it was too slow for the hills around here,
so i sold it and bought a Honda Hawk Gt650. I was putting 10k a year
on my bicycle, about 6k a year on the moto, commuting. Then i got a
ninja 650, fuel injected, and at 10k miles, had an accident in which a
lady pulled out in front of me, and stopped. I had the skills to skid
and slide around the back of her, then she panicked and i was afraid
she was going to through in in reverse, had a tank slapper reversing
directions, went down.

I wear full gear. I rolled, my full face helmet was destroyed. Had i
not been wearing it, I would not be here, or i would not have a face.
I shattered my right arm into hundred of pieces. It was doubtful i
would regain use of it. I have a plate and 13 screws, and worked
really hard to get it back, and it is fine. My doc said most folks
don't come back from my injury like I did.

That said, i still ride. I restored another 650 Hawk (cult bike,
google it, or i can send you a link to my restoration). Then I found
one that was a collectors, almost no miles, and bought that one, sold
the other on CL. I ride it maybe once or twice a week. I love it, but
i could give it up. Mostly keep it around now as backup
transportation in case something happens to my car, since i now live
alone.

Just yesterday, i was thinking if I had to choose, it would be the
bicycle. I love things with two wheels. To the original question, i
prolly put 7k miles on my bicycle a year, and 3k miles on the moto.

Do love watching motogp, and one of my favorite racers was killed two
weeks ago at Sepang race. It gives me pause for riding.

Mark
Howtostretch.co,

[robert zeidler]

I own and ride several BMW motorcycles. My fave is an '04 GS Adv,
which I rode from CT to OR last summer ('10). The bicycle/mc ride
ratio varies, but it's all good. For the BMW GS series there is a
company (2x2 I think) that makes a mount to take a bicycle on a
motorcycle. best of all world's!

RGZ

[Chris A]

I like the modern Triumph recommendations, they're getting a great reputation for reliability, yet they can be as pretty as the classic examples. I regularly see an orange/white Bonneville T-100 in my neighborhood, and I always find myself looking at them online afterwards...

I just scanned in a photo of a Honda that I bought new in 1987 and rode it all over New England for a few years. It was a fantastic bike, I wish I still had it. https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-PDpGQNnEjws/TrkcPylrV4I/AAAAAAAACMI/bSghdE4OQVY/s800/magna.jpg


--
Chris A.
Davie, Florida

[Andrew Johnson]

Patrick,

I used to own a lovely BMW Airhead, an '87 R80. It had the smoothest motor you could imagine, with lightweight wrist pins and Cariillo rods... not as "vintage" as some Beemers, but still plenty of soul, and fairly easy maintenance. Yes, they do take maintenance, which you should lovingly embrace. My 2000 "oilhead" R1150GS needs much less fussing, has more torque and higher power, but most of all - it simply fits me better, a tall bike for a tall rider.

Not knowing your height, you have many rides to choose from. My simple suggestion? Take and pass the MSF course FIRST, and if you're still motivated, get a $2000 used motorcycle - any motorcycle - and learn to ride. Learn balance, throttle, learn to pick it up when you fall, learn about wet roads and staying on the gas. Get some scrapes and bruises, nicks and burns. Then, and only then, consider something more ex;pensive. As much as I like my beemer, I am awfully fond of Yamaha's WR250R/X. Simple, lightweight, superbe fuel consumption, great handling, easy maintenance.

- Andrew, Berkeley

[Andrew Letton]

It's all been pedal powered for me for a decade or so, since I sold my
CBR1000, but in the last three years I've been working for Zero
Motorcycles, so I've been able to ride company motorcycles. Perfect
timing to plug (pun intended) our 2012 model line which was introduced
at EICMA in Milan just this morning:
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/
Electric motorcycles are a practical reality, as of now!
(...but if I HAD to make a choice, I'd still choose my Riv.)
cheers,
Andrew, Santa Cruz

[Seth Vidal]

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 1:59 PM, Andrew Letton <let...@flash.net> wrote:
> It's all been pedal powered for me for a decade or so, since I sold my
> CBR1000, but in the last three years I've been working for Zero
> Motorcycles, so I've been able to ride company motorcycles.  Perfect
> timing to plug (pun intended) our 2012 model line which was introduced
> at EICMA in Milan just this morning:
> http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/
> Electric motorcycles are a practical reality, as of now!
> (...but if I HAD to make a choice, I'd still choose my Riv.)
> cheers,
> Andrew, Santa Cruz
>

Hi,
And with this final advertisement I think it fair to say this
discussion has drifted FAR afield and is no longer even remotely
riv-related.

thanks,
-sv

[David Carter]

I've been riding atop a BMW 1100GS for the past 7 years - usually every other day for commuting and then a big trip once a year with my friends.  It is the perfect (motor)bike for me and I love it.  Busy family life began taking its toll and I found myself exercising less and less the past few years.  In late spring of this year I pulled out my 20 year old bicycle which I bought for myself as a teenager and began riding it, for fun, and then also once every week or two to get to work.  There is something special moving about on ones own power and I find myself enjoying (bi)cycling more and more (funny how I forgot until now how much I liked to bike when I was younger...). 

On the downside, my commute takes a good 25 minutes via bicycle (versus 12 on my GS) and oddly enough I actually feel safer on my motorcycle - perhaps because I move with the speed of traffic but also I think bicyclist receive even less respect than motorcyclists.

I'll stick to my heated vest and motorbike on chilly days this winter, but am looking forward to using my brand new Hillborne on nicer days :)

I'm really looking forward to the Spring and spending more time on my Riv.  Just bought a tandem tag-along bike so I can bring the little ones on my adventures.

-David

Fairfield, IA

[singlecross]

I've owned and ridden motorcycles since the day I graduated High
School (Mom said that once I graduated I was free to do what I would).
I probably put more miles on the motorcycle but more days on the
bicycle. Evens out I guess. BMW motorcycles would equate well to
Rivendell bicycles while the Suzuki V-Strom is the iBob cheaper
version. I love my V-Strom and yes, I've ridden lots of BMW's... 90%
of the performance at half the price.

singlecross
DownEast

[robert zeidler]

Do not get an Oilhead BMW unless you've got some leg length.

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[Philip Williamson]

Until it becomes the subject of a Reader interview, I guess you're
right. FWIW, my dad's a motorcycle guy, I'm a bike guy. I like the
quiet, especially out in the woods, so the electric motorcycles do
appeal to me.

Philip

[Andrew Johnson]

After scoring a Nitto Racing cage at the RBW garage sale today, I took off for a couple laps on the mountain. It was hecka breezy out, and lots of downed debris from the trees near Rock City, making for slippery road surface. Something I noticed was that, after a few weeks riding the fixed-gear Quickbeam, my motorcycling technique has gotten better in the turns.

On the QB, I can't coast, and have to pedal through turns. Maybe not quite *powering* through turns, but not coasting or braking, either - I keep the momentum going and tension on the chain. Anything else, and I'll screw up the turn.

It's the same on the motorcycle - the best technique is to roll on throttle through the turn. I wasn't thinking about this so much, but once on the curves of North Gate road, I realized I was taking them just a hair faster than last time, but more accurately, without coasting or chopping the throttle. Another example of how the two practices compliment each other.

- Andrew, Berkeley