New Drivetrain for my Atlantis

[sanjoser]

hello everyone

I've had a mix of components on my atlantis for it's life, these 10 years or so.

different shifters, hubs, gears, drivetrain, etc. 

I've got the urge to do an upgrade, and I'd really like to go campy. I've been

advised that my chris king hubs are fine, so long as they get serviced every 

six months, so I guess I'll keep those, but everything else is up for change.

This is my goto bike for commuting and tours. I guess I don't have to explain that 

to this group. 

So, what 's the consensus?

best regards

tom

[Seth Vidal]

You have to service your hubs every 6 months??

that seems... excessive.
-sv

[newenglandbike]

I was thinking the same thing... unless I'm riding 60 miles every day, I don't want to be servicing hubs that often.      But back on the drivetrain question-   I'm sorry I can't make a recommendation if you want to get Campagnolo-   but I've had really good experience with shimano XT, 8-speed cassettes and KMC chains on my Bombadil.

[William]

What is it about campy that you like or want?  The brifters?  the 11-speeds?  

[eddi...@gmail.com]

Tom, I've got Campagnolo setups on my Rambouillet and my Ritchey racing bike, and like it, but it's not all that Riv-ish.

The best reason to use Campy (my opinion only) is to use Ergolevers, if you really want integrated levers. I like the 9-speed stuff a lot and have adapted 10-speed levers to 9-speed cassettes with a Shiftmate pulley.

Campy has not appealed to me in recent years -- 11-speed, discontinuing their nice silver Centaur, Chorus and Record hubs, and the astronomical prices. I've adapted Ergolevers to Shimano drivetrains, using the Shiftmate and/or info from the web, which would be my approach if starting out today.

I really like their triple front derailleurs with all non-STI setups.

Ed Felker
Washington, DC

[Steve Palincsar]

On Wed, 2012-03-21 at 15:36 -0700, eddi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I really like their triple front derailleurs with all non-STI setups.
>

Let me echo this. The Campagnolo Racing T front derailleur is the best
thing I've ever used on 24/36/46 and 26/36/48 compact triples shifted
with Shimano bar end shifters. It continues to amaze me, because
Campagnolo has never had the slightest interest in this sort of gearing;
but the derailleurs are simply fantastic.

[Bruce Herbitter]

I've got over 4k miles on a set of white industries hubs and they still font need service

Sent from my Kindle Fire

---

From: Seth Vidal <skv...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wed Mar 21 16:26:57 CDT 2012
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] New Drivetrain for my Atlantis

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[dailyrandonneur]

Campy sold a 30-40-50 chainring option on their non-Record/Chorus triple cranksets. I like those cranks too, despite the 135 BCD and requirement to use a Campy-compatible square taper bottom bracket. Tough chainrings in the Centaur/Racing T level.

Unfortunately Campy turned fully toward the racing/carbon market around 2009, but there's lots of older stuff around and Campy has the Comp triple group in their lineup with that chainring combo if you want to buy new.

Ed

On Wednesday, March 21, 2012 6:45:32 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:

On Wed, 2012-03-21 at 15:36 -0700
>

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

Somewhat unorthodox suggestion, but the smoothest shifting drivetrain I've ever owned or even heard about has been the SRAM X.9 2x10 kit recently installed on my Curt Goodrich (formerly I had the same group on a Redline mountain bike). The way the chainrings are ramped on the x.9 crank is a thing of beauty, but forget about swapping out other rings. My crank is a 42/28, but a 39/26 is also available. I have an 11-36 cassette, which makes for a near perfect gear range. You'll probably maybe have to use a non-SRAM front derailleur for tire/fender clearance reasons. Of course the SRAM stuff is all black, smoky gray, or maybe white, which is what makes it unorthodox for a Riv. But if you can get over the color issue, it's awesome.

[PATRICK MOORE]

11K on a set of Phils and they feel like new. 10K and 7 K in two
(titanium!) bb assemblies, ditto. Heck, the --what, 30? 40? -- year
old 3 piece Phils on the old Herse I briefly owned were as smooth as
the newer ones.

--
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html

[benzzoy]

On Mar 21, 2:26 pm, Seth Vidal <skvi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 5:25 PM, sanjoser <thomas.savar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I've been advised that my chris king hubs are fine, so long as they get serviced
> > every six months, so I guess I'll keep those, but everything else is up for
> > change.
>

> You have to service your hubs every 6 months??
>
> that seems... excessive.

For those not familiar with Chris King hubs, that "service" refers to
relubricating the RingDrive freewheeling mechanism every 6 to 12
months. This isn't at all hard and all one needs are normal hand tools
and a bottle of Chris King RingDrive lubricant. OK, so you do need
that proprietary Chris King hub preload adjustment tool that's about
$25, but this is a 5-minute job and is distinctively not like
servicing a classic loose-ball hub.

[newenglandbike]

I have at least 10K on a set of shimano deores (6K continental tour +2.5 years commuting), re-laced them twice but didn't even clean them off, and they still spin silky smooth.  

On Wednesday, March 21, 2012 8:47:00 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:

11K on a set of Phils and they feel like new. 10K and 7 K in two
(titanium!) bb assemblies, ditto. Heck, the --what, 30? 40? -- year
old 3 piece Phils on the old Herse I briefly owned were as smooth as
the newer ones.

On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 4:48 PM, Bruce Herbitter
<bruce.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've got over 4k miles on a set of white industries hubs and they still font
> need service
>
> Sent from my Kindle Fire
>
> ________________________________
> From: Seth Vidal <skv...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Wed Mar 21 16:26:57 CDT 2012

> To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com

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[newenglandbike]

PS I'm not proud of that level of neglect of my hubs---  but life gets in the way and usually something else is up with my bike/wheels (new england road salt eats rims for breakfast).    I'm tempted to go clean those hubs up right now just b/c they are damn good hubs.

[Philip Williamson]

Huh. My 1999 King-built "Bontrager" Hubs have been adjusted once, early in their life. Am I 23 services behind, or do the older hubs not need this? I did look up the King service guidelines a while ago, and they recommend either their own oil ($9 for 1.2 ounces), or synthetic motor oil ($7/quart - good for 320 overhauls).

 Philip

[William]

Service it 27 times today, and then you can blow it off for another two years.

[Philip Williamson]

That's an excellent plan. Good thing I've got a quart of synthetic oil!

 Philip

[Mojo]

Tom,

 

Campagnolo, the name that illicits a response form all cyclists. The company dipped in mystique and tradition.

 

My Campy response is blech! In the 70s I bought a Record groupo to go on my new frame for racing. the bits were oh so pretty and prestigous and expensive. But then I found out the hard way that the Record headset would pit if you tightened it just slightly too much. And that Record cranks had a built in stress riser and were prone to break. I ended up breaking two of them before I replaced it with a 1986 era Dura-Ace crank that i am using to this day. At some point around 1980, I rode a friends bike with Suntour components and realized the rear derailer worked much better (slant parallelogram design copied by Campy & everyone else today) and the Suntour brakes actually stopped the bike! Then there was the 110bcd Campy crank that offset one of the arms just a tad so you would have to buy Campy chainrings.

 

Today I have long since sold off all my racing wheels, cleats, and Campy bits for Shimano/Suntour/TA parts that cost a fraction and work as well or much better. 

 

Campy will always have that glorious history, and still has prestige for some reason. And Campy certainly has some impressive prices! oh and the 11 cogs!  I will say their brifters are nice and the Athena 11 speed brifter will shift a 9 speed Shimano drivetrain nicely.

 

But in my mind's eye putting Campy parts on an Atlantis is like putting a designer spoiler on a Jeep.

Not that there is anything wrong with that!

[Steve Palincsar]

On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 10:01 -0700, Mojo wrote:
> Campy will always have that glorious history, and still has prestige
> for some reason. And Campy certainly has some impressive prices! oh
> and the 11 cogs! I will say their brifters are nice and the Athena 11
> speed brifter will shift a 9 speed Shimano drivetrain nicely. But in
> my mind's eye putting Campy parts on an Atlantis is like putting a
> designer spoiler on a Jeep. Not that there is anything wrong with
> that!

You can keep your brifters and your eleven speeds, but trust me, the
Campagnolo Racing T is the best front derailleur ever made for typical
Riv-style compact triple wide range drive trains, the sort of thing you
would expect to find on an Atlantis.

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

Well, modern-ish Campy will generally be made for road bikes with 130 mm dropout spacing. The Atlantis is 135 mm, so you'll have to squish the frame a little, modify a hub. Or maybe you already have CK hubs with a Campy freehub? When you've figured that out, you'll have to reconcile yourself to Campy's race-oriented gearing. If you want a cog bigger than 29t, no stock Campy cassette will work. And if you re-space a Shimano cassette with bigger cogs, will a Campy derailleur handle the bigger cog? Will any of the Campy cranks clear the bowed-out Atlantis chainstays?

IMO, Campy is a quick road to frustration, heartache, and lots of money spent. Every Campy bike I've ever worked on has been a pain in the ass. Trying to find parts for older series drivetrains is often frustrating and expensive, if not impossible. We have a buddy at a nearby shop. Everytime we call him with one of our Campy compatibility questions, he usually laughs for a few minutes before delivering the bad news.

On Wednesday, March 21, 2012 4:25:06 PM UTC-5, sanjoser wrote:

[dougP]

"This is my goto bike for commuting and tours."

Maybe not very creative but an Atlantis in a standard Rivendell build
is unbeatable for versatility. If you're changing the entire
drivetrain, why not just go with the Sugino / Shimano / Tektro / etc.
components? Reasonably priced, bolts on with no fuss & away you go.
Cyclofiend's Atlantis page has gobs of bikes with build details so
lots of choices to look at and they've all been proven to work.

I inherited a bunch of Campy stuff a few years back & fiddled around
for a bit, then found a guy who needed pretty much all of it for some
roadie type build he was doing. Glad I never started screwing around
mixing'n'mathcing Campy & Shimano; the way I play with this stuff I
would still be at it.

OTH, Eric is "campyonlyguy" and has an entirely opposite view. So it
can work.

dougP

[RJM]

If I was going to upgrade to more modern componentry on an Atlantis, I would be more apt to go with something like Sram Apex.  Plenty of gear range, modern style brifters, and still lightweight enough.

 

On Wednesday, March 21, 2012 4:25:06 PM UTC-5, sanjoser wrote:

[reynoldslugs]

If, after this discussion, you are still interested in Campagnolo, I
would cast a supporting vote. Years ago, Grant said "Every bike
should have a bit of Campagnolo," and I still sort of feel that way.
It's something that comes from riding in the 70's.

You can get a 135mm hub from White Industries that is splined for
Campagnolo. I used that set up on a Davidson custom, built around the
notion of a Campagnolo groupset on 135 mm hubs. It is beautiful and
worked fine.

YMMV, as they say in the vernacular.

Good luck,

Max

[reynoldslugs]

p.s., Campagnolo doesn't look half bad on some Rivendell models.
Here's my Roadeo with Record 10:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41563482@N06/sets/72157625470080748/

The carbon crank is regarded in some circles as the ultimate heresy,
but overall it looks fine with the color scheme of the bike.

[Michael_S]

the Campy ergoshifters are much nicer than shimaNos. Many drop bar mountain bikers ( and me on my tandem) use 10 speed Campy ergo levers with an 8 speed shimaNo rear derailleur and cassette... shifts like they were made for each other.

~mike

On Wednesday, March 21, 2012 2:25:06 PM UTC-7, sanjoser wrote:

[cyclotourist]

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Redlands, CA

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the America I love.”

[cyclotourist]

And 11 speed Campy is confirmed to shift Shimano 9 just as 10 speed
shifts Shimano 8. So Campy Brifters which everyone seems to love and
Shimano 9 speed drivetrain which everyone begrudgingly admits is
pretty bulletproof. And yeah, White hubs would be just that much
better!

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

We did a 10-->8 "Shimergo" conversion recently. If we set it up to shift in the middle of the cassette, indexing was suboptimal at the top and bottom of the range. The customer brought it back to us several times for fine-tuning before giving up on the idea. Maybe I missed some subtle nuance to making it work flawlessly, but in my experience it only kinda works. Probably voids any warranty.

[Shaun Meehan]

I guess I can see why one might not want to put the 2X10 SRAM drivetrain on a Riv for aesthetic reasons. But from a purely functional standpoint, I concur with Jim's assessment of this set-up. I recently bought a Surly Ogre from Jim (Hiawatha Cyclery) and went with the 2X10 set-up on Jim's recommendation after seeing it on his Goodrich at the shop. The gear range is great and it shifts perfectly. I love it!

Shaun Meehan

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[Patrick in VT]

On Mar 24, 8:34 am, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <thill....@gmail.com>
wrote:

> We did a 10-->8 "Shimergo" conversion recently. If we set it up to shift in the middle of the cassette, indexing was suboptimal at the top and bottom of the range. The customer brought it back to us several times for fine-tuning before giving up on the idea. Maybe I missed some subtle nuance to making it work flawlessly, but in my experience it only kinda works. Probably voids any warranty.

What kind of cassette/derailer, Jim? Just curious. I have the best
results with a short-cage (Ultegra), currently shifting a 12-30t on a
single ring set-up. I also get really smooth precise shifting with a
medium cage XTR rapid-rise (which I actually like for the ergo levers
- lets me shift to higher gears from the drops, and sweep up to lower
gears with a single big push of the thumb). anyway, just wondering if
longer cages are more finicky for shimergo.

[Michael_S]

On my tandem, I'm using a older (M952) XTR long cage derailleur and XTR 12-32 cassette. shifts like a dream.

~mike

[Ablejack]

There is a very easy way to tell if you have a proper crankset for your bike. 

Look at the photo. 

Do your chainrings match those on either of these Salukis? 

If so you have chosen well.

[Chris]

I just picked one up on eBay.  Thanks for the recommendation!  

I read somewhere that for 8/9 speed front derailers Chorus is of the same quality as Racing T.  Is that right?  Chorus components seem to be more available than Racing T.  

On Wednesday, March 21, 2012 6:45:32 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:

[Randall Rupp]

I'm using it on two bikes, both with Shimano LX long cage rapid rise rear derailleurs.  Works fine.  For the front I found that the Powershift (not Ultrashift) worked ok.  It can make your head hurt trying to figure out what Campy is doing year to year with PowerShift, UltraShift, and even group to group.  But Ergos are nice, that's the only reason I did it.

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[John Speare]

It’s worth getting the Ultrashift versions, which are harder to find now in 10sp, which makes the 11spd/9spd option perhaps a better choice if you’re not a hunter and seeker type.

 

Ultra shift gives you the ability to sweep multiple shifts on the rear derailleur in one operation – powershift makes you step through it.

 

But probably more importantly is that ultra-shift gives you trim on the FD…

 

IMO, it’s worth seeking out the ultra-shift stuff for 10 spd. All 11 speed is ultrashift, so you’re ok there.

 

I have 10sp ergo set up on three bikes: two with old XTR derailleurs and one with a 9 spd Dura-Ace… works great in all cases with zero fussery.

 

Seems to me the best option for brifter set ups – you get super nice shifting and easy/cheap replacement parts along the drive train.

 

 

 

John Speare

Spokane, WA

http://cyclingspokane.blogspot.com

 

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Randall Rupp

Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:41 AM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com

[RonLau]

Jim,

This is the reason why Campy 10s Ergo with Shimano 8 issue.

10s Campy pulls are 2.5mm five times, 3mm twice and 3.5mm twice.

IMO, one is better off using Ergo 9s with Shiftmate for Shimano 9.

I am a Campy Ergo user, they are nice, easy to work with for me.  Just replace the g & e springs on a set of 10 years old shifter, good as new now in terms of shifting.  Their chain are pain but I use KMC and it works just fine.  If you use Veloce cassette, they are steel cog, they last a good long time, and you can swap out one at the time, namely 16-17-18-29 usually.  My cassette of choice still 13-26 and 13-29 for long climbs.

I have another friend Chorus group works well without issue after 10 years, just replace the springs and keep an eye on the chain wear. 

You do want to use all 10s parts, mix and match doesn't make happy marriage with Campy.

Just my 2c.

Ron

[RonLau]

Steve is correct, those Racing T FD are super at 48-38-28 DT or Barend shifting for me as well.


I bought a Campy FD from Rivendell before, it works very well and looks like my Racing T.

http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/d10.htm

I will double check it tomorrow and make sure they are the same shape.

[Bill M.]

CK hubs are nice but they may not play nicely with a Campy group.
See:

http://chrisking.com/node/40

Modern Campy parts may not give you the gearing range you want for
touring, they are pretty much focused on the sport/racing end of
cycling. 34/29 is as low as a current Campy group will handle. I
have that setup on my go-fast and it's fine for unloaded riding in
hilly territory, but I wouldn't tour with it.

You might consider using SRAM parts instead, which would work with
your current wheels. You'd be limited to a double crank, but I have a
bike with Apex derailleurs and a 46/30 crankset without issue. Apex
will handle a 32 tooth cog in back, and you could sub a SRAM mountain
derailleur to swing a 36 if need be.

Bill