Ram/Roadeo/other roady build lists and photos?

[PATRICK MOORE]

I am in the very fortunate situation of anticipating the present
(adverbial) arrival of a 58X57 cm Ram, offered rather unexpectedly and
very graciously at poor-boy's terms by listmember Tim Whalen (thanks,
Tim). I have been offered, very graciously, discount and even free
parts by listmembers, but I'd like to see photos and build lists of
others' Rams.

I've followed the recent post on the Ram build of course but the OP's
ideas are rather different from mine.

I plan (at the moment; no one can hold me to resolution) to build mine
as a comfortable multispeed gofast to fill the now empty "derailleur
road" category, meaning drops, modest load carrying capacity, and
relatively uncomplicated gearing -- perhaps a 5 speed half step 46/42
(I have plenty of 14-28s) for me nice close gaps between 88" and 40"
with cruising gears in the second cog, and a 5 speed fw hub would not
have to be dished. (I may have a NNP 30 t Pro 5 Vis ring to trade for
a decent ditto 42, if anyone is interested.)

Or, a 46/30 with, say, a 14-15-16-18-18-19-21-23 cassette for a
slightly lower bottom end.

No rack, but a Carradice Junior; possibly a dyno hub in the future, dt
shifters (shit, sold the last pair of Retrofrictions earlier this
year), original issue Flite, older Keo Pluses, and, I hope, Maes
Parallels and Grand Bois Cerf blue or green. Don't need fenders here
in NM except a few weeks a year. I want to find old stock Dura Ace
brake levers -- may have a pair.

Am still debating whether I want to try tubulars (with Stans).

Here is what I have in my box right now, from memory:

Flite
Keos
Pro 5 Vis crankset, 170
44, 46 and 30 t rings
FWs
Campy Record hs

Need (with preferred specifics, understanding that I may not get them):

Stem (8 cm Pearl)
Bar (37 or 38 cm Grand Bois Maes Parallel copy)
Tape: Lizard Skins DSP
Levers (pre STI Dura Ace aero)
Calipers (nice, forged, silver, normal reach single pivots: RGC, 600,
S Pro/Cyclone)
BB (Phil 115)
Seat post (silver, lots of setback -- I like the old Dura Ace from 20 years ago)
Rims (particularly interested in advice for silver, lightish, 32 or 36
hole rims)
Hubs (Phil would be nice)
Skewers (allen bolts or skewers)
Tires (GB Cerf)
Chain
Shifters (Simplex; wish I hadn't sold)
Derailleurs (Dura Ace 7200, 7400; Superbe Pro)

This will be a longish term project, tho' I will start out with what I
can get and replace as I can afford.







--

-------------------------
Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
-------------------------

[Leslie]

Patrick,

The description on this photo has my original build list. 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/leslie_bright/4407972696/

I've now swapped out my Tekros for almost the same but longer-reach caliper versions, swapped my stem from the DuraAce to a Nitto Tallux, switched from 48 Noodles to 46 Sobas.  I've built a wheelset using the A23 650b rims, light Hetres, a 105 rear and a Shimano dynohub for the front, added a Marks rack to the front with an Acorn bag and a Edelux light... also stuck a Pixeo on the rear...   I need to take some new photos after I get it back out to ride now.....

[Toshi Takeuchi]

Hey Leslie,

I hope you love the 650b ride! I want to build up an A23 wheelset
too--maybe next year's long term project. Let me know how the light
Hetres work out--I'm curious to hear how easy they will be to mount on
the A23--whether you need tire levers or not.

Thanks,
Toshi

[David Yu Greenblatt]

Patrick,

As you live in goathead country trying to run tubular tires (which, as you know, have tubes) with or without Stan's sealant may be an expensive and frustrating experiment. 

I am curious about how tubeless Hetres (with Stan's) would perform in your area.

- David G in SF

On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 10:34 AM, PATRICK MOORE <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

Am still debating whether I want to try tubulars (with Stans).

<snip>

 

 

[Leslie]

On Tuesday, December 18, 2012 2:39:07 PM UTC-5, ttoshi wrote:

I hope you love the 650b ride! I want to build up an A23 wheelset
too--maybe next year's long term project. Let me know how the light
Hetres work out--I'm curious to hear how easy they will be to mount on
the A23--whether you need tire levers or not.

Toshi,

Haven't ridden yet, w/ this set and tires;  I'd pulled my Synergy/Conti combo over from the Bomba to check it all out before buying the bits and building up the wheelset.  I built the wheels this past weekend, then mounted the Hetres the other night.  Mounting NeoMotos on the Synergies was easy, mounting the Contis wasn't.   So, I was hopeful that the A23 and Hetres would be at least easier than the Conti/Synergy combo.

Hate to say, nope... it wasn't.   I managed it with only one lever, but, it took a good while and some wrangling.   Someone w/ more skill than me, maybe it wouldn't have been so hard/taken so long, but... 

However, end result:  I think the rims are nice, and I think I'll like the tires.   Will be trying it out soon. Will report back.

  

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I mounted Grand Bois Cypres on 700c A23 rims and it definitely
required a tire lever for me. The rim is tubeless ready and has a lip
inside and was told to use the Velocity veloplugs to avoid friction
with rim tape. The bead did pop out when inflated as it cleared the
lip. The rim seems pretty nice so far.

Toshi

[PATRICK MOORE]

I'm getting mixed signals on this -- partly scuttlebutt, partly via
Google. If Stans can work off road, why not on road?

In any event, if I do try tubs, it will be on the cheap with a
scavenged or at least used wheelset.

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[Jim Mather]

You are confusing the terminology: Stan's is tubeless, not tubular.
Tubular, aka sew-ups, are a tire sewn around a tube.

Stan's has road tubular, but it's expensive and tire choice is
limited. It is intended for racers who will run high psi. You can read
about it here: http://www.notubes.com/Road-Tubeless-C78.aspx

If you're setting up a fairly fat tire with with lower pressures, you
have more flexibility. For example, a Big Apple would probably make a
great tubeless set up, but a Ram won't fit that. Run a 40mm tire at
less than 60 psi, and it might work but I don't know for sure. But to
run a 40 on a Ram, I imagine you need to do the 650B conversion.

jim m
wc ca

[PATRICK MOORE]

Leslie: very nice build. I think I have the same pump, at least, and I
do want your bag.

Hoozis this? http://www.flickr.com/photos/leslie_bright/4407972696/in/photostream/

Thatsa niceone too!

On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Leslie <leslie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/leslie_bright/

[PATRICK MOORE]

Thanks. But really, no terminological inexactitude at all; I've read
about using Stans (and other new-tech sealants) in Tubs (tubulars, sew
ups) with good results.

Also, I have no desire to run anything bigger than say 28 on this Ram,
at least according to my current programming. I've got Fat on the
Fargo.

There was a thread on the CR list recently about sub $50 tubs that
were (per the posters) decent. My idea is to find a CL or eB or swap
meet tub wheelset, spend $150 on 3 Thailand tubs and $10 on Stans, and
give it a whirl. Note that my 650CX23 Michelin Pro Races puncture no
more than my Kojaks, at least on the roads I generally ride them; no
more than 2-3 flats a week over the three bikes, which is not to bad
by my frames of reference.

[PATRICK MOORE]

Jim -- I guess that your implicit point remains (so all chime in):
that sealants in low pressure tires might work much better than same
sealants in HP tires. OTOH, the scuttlebutt/googlebutt I've read leads
me to think that these sealants might work well in HP tubs, too. I
solicit comments from tub riders.

[PATRICK MOORE]

*One* more remark here: someone -- Stans? Vittoria? -- actually makes
a "per dose" sealant for tubular (sewup) flats. Stop, add to flatted
tube thru removeable valve, pump, ride (so they claim).

[David Yu Greenblatt]

I have used tubeless MTB and 650B tires with sealant, and tubular cyclocross tires with sealant. My impression is that tubular cyclocross tires with sealant are more resistant to pinprick-style punctures compared to sealant-less tubulars, but are nowhere near as flatproof as true tubeless tires. In my experience, once a cyclocross tubular has a legitimate puncture (not some tiny leak), no amount of additional Stan's sealant or Vittoria Pit Stop latex foam will revive it. 

The key variable regarding sealant performance is tube vs. no tube, not high vs. low pressure. Once a thin-walled inner tube suffers a significant puncture or laceration, the sealant can't repair the defect. In contrast, punctures in a relatively thick-walled tubeless tire can be plugged by the latex particles in the sealant before a flat ensues. That is my theory, anyway. 

By all means, give it a try, but if you are currently getting 2-3 flats per week on standard tubed clincher tires I would be surprised if you can go 2 weeks without a flat with tubulars plus sealant. And remember, while you can repair a punctured clincher inner tube at the road side in a few minutes, repairing a punctured tubular is a major ordeal. 

- David G in SF

[Michael Hechmer]

Perhaps I missed something.  You are not planning a 650 conversion so i'm not sure why all the input around that.  I run my Ram with open pro rims, which have been very good to me for many years.  I bought the Grand Bois Cerf Green  tires this year and they have been fabulous.  They fit nicely under my hammered honjo rims, and didn't flat once all summer, but ural VT may be more forgiving on rubber than NM.  Consider the White hubs.  They're  a hundred buck less than PW, lighter and plenty durable for the useage  you are writing about.  Some people accuse them of being noisy, but that is mostly an in-shop phenomenon.  Above 15 mph the wind in your ears creates more noise than coasting on the hub and, in any case it is a very smooth, consistent sound that is easy to adjust to when coasting at 10 mph.

I'm a big fan of the Conex 908 chain which gives great performance with friction 9 spd. Well worth the extra $10-15.

One of these days i'd love to bring my Ram to NM.  Good luck with the build.

Michael

Westford, VT

On Tuesday, December 18, 2012 1:34:54 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:

[Jim Mather]

On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 3:05 PM, David Yu Greenblatt
<david.yu....@gmail.com> wrote:
> The key variable regarding sealant performance is tube vs. no tube, not high
> vs. low pressure. Once a thin-walled inner tube suffers a significant
> puncture or laceration, the sealant can't repair the defect. In contrast,
> punctures in a relatively thick-walled tubeless tire can be plugged by the
> latex particles in the sealant before a flat ensues. That is my theory,
> anyway.
>

That coincides with my experience. Stan's sealant is pretty good at
stopping leaks in a thick rubber tire, but I haven't seen a sealant
that will stop a leak in a tube without needing to be re-inflated.

jim m
wc ca

[PATRICK MOORE]

Thanks, David. The punctures I have in mind are pinprick goathead
holes. I understand that bigger ones will entail the usual tubular
flat hassle.

On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 4:05 PM, David Yu Greenblatt

[PATRICK MOORE]

I see that we (y'all and I) have completely different universes as are
points of reference.

Here, flats are a way of life: a flat per ride, at least if it is a
slow leak due to a goathead, is acceptable to me (better that than
some of the "flat proof" alternatives I've ridden). Given that
tolerance, I expect to pump up tires many times in a week and,
especially, after a puncture. The question remaining is, what happens
after I pump? Does the tire re-inflate and stay hard, or does it
remain limp?

So: tubular tire, pinprick (goathead) puncture, the usual
stop-and-fix-and-inflate scenario.

Thanks.

[PATRICK MOORE]

"Our", not "are", of course. Sheesh!

[Jim Mather]

On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 3:48 PM, PATRICK MOORE <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The question remaining is, what happens
> after I pump? Does the tire re-inflate and stay hard, or does it
> remain limp?
>

I haven't used Stan's in a tube so I don't know what it does. I have
used Slime, and after you re-inflate (sometimes twice), it will stay
hard.

jim m

[Leslie]

On Tuesday, December 18, 2012 6:30:02 PM UTC-5, Michael Hechmer wrote:

Perhaps I missed something.  You are not planning a 650 conversion so i'm not sure why all the input around that.

Didn't mean to start a tangent;  I was simply addressing my Ram's current build...  

[Jay in Tel Aviv]

I used sealant in a tube - Joe's, which is more available than Stan's
here for some reason.
No flats for many months, then a big surprise when I did flat.
The sealant glued the tube is to the tire - a year old 32 Supreme with
plenty of life left otherwise.
Not sure is that means the sealant did its job, or if I was just
sloppy with it. I found it pretty impossible to get it in the tube
neatly. Removable core presta.
I replaced the tire with a 35 Supreme and have prefilled Slime tubes
on order.
I have no tolerance for flats when I'm trying to get to work, or home.

Jay

[Patrick in VT]

On Tuesday, December 18, 2012 6:05:17 PM UTC-5, David G wrote:

I have used tubeless MTB and 650B tires with sealant, and tubular cyclocross tires with sealant. My impression is that tubular cyclocross tires with sealant are more resistant to pinprick-style punctures compared to sealant-less tubulars, but are nowhere near as flatproof as true tubeless tires. In my experience, once a cyclocross tubular has a legitimate puncture (not some tiny leak), no amount of additional Stan's sealant or Vittoria Pit Stop latex foam will revive it. 

- David G in SF

pretty much my experience as well.  but, one tip to increase the effectiveness of sealant in tubulars is to add some glitter - it helps "clotting" and will seal up the puncture better than just the sealant on its own.   also, keep in mind that Stans uses ammonia (as an anticoagulant) - conventional wisdom says that will degrade latex tubes/tubulars over time.  Caffelatex doesn't use ammonia, so is the better sealant for latex tubulars.  Stans works well with tubulars using butyl inner-tubes.

[Jeremy Till]

back to the original topic...in terms of lightish silver 32 hole rims, I have the H Plus Son TB 14 rims on my Quickbeam and they'd probably suit your build well.  They're light, 32 hole, polished silver, double eyeletted, box section, 22mm wide and have no branding aside from some almost imperceptible logos around the valve hole.   

Dirty pictures here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/85709120@N07/8003630591/in/set-72157631575326772

[Peter Morgano]

Nice wheels but not the dirty pictures that term brings to mind, Haha.

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[steel lugs]

Patrick, have you considered going with a 1x drivetrain, since you have plenty of 14-28s and a 44t already?  I did something similar with my Rambouillet and discovered I actually preferred having less gears:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/38991087@N05/4482258007/in/photostream/

Now if only White Industries would come out with 5-speed freewheels!

Cheers.

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[PATRICK MOORE]

Thanks -- that's an idea. In fact, I've got a boxful of close ratio
Reginas and Shimanos (including a corncob 16-22 six!). I do like
closely spread gears between (for this type of bike and riding) say
65" and 75", though, and the halfstep arrangement gives me that along
with a downhill gear or two and some climbing gears.

46 42
14 89 81
17 73 67
20 62 57
24 52 47
28 44 41

This might work"

40
13 83
14 77
15 72
17 64
19 57
21 51

Or this!

48
16 81
17 76
18 72
19 68
20 65
21 62
22 59

I even have a Sachs 8 sp fw, but that is pushing things too far.

On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 12:20 PM, steel lugs <stee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Patrick, have you considered going with a 1x drivetrain, since you have
> plenty of 14-28s and a 44t already? I did something similar with my
> Rambouillet and discovered I actually preferred having less gears:
>
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/38991087@N05/4482258007/in/photostream/
>
>
> Now if only White Industries would come out with 5-speed freewheels!
>
>
> Cheers.

[Noah Deuce]

A friend described my Hilsen setup as the "full Grant," and that's basically true in the cockpit: Nitto Technomic Deluxe stem, Nitto Mustache handlebars, a two-bolt Nitto seatpost, and a Rivet Cycles Pearl saddle (which is awesome, by the way). Tektro/Silver brakes.

Wheels are 32h Chris King hubs laced to DT-Swiss double eyelet 1.1 rims. Fantastic wheelset, built for me by Dave Chase at Redstone Cyclery in Lyons, CO.

Drivetrain is a little different. 46 tooth single front ring, 11-32 9spd cassette, with a short cage SRAM X9 Type 2 rear derailleur shifted by a Silver friction shifter.

I took a chance on the derailleur-shifter combo, since Riv says the Silver shifters don't work with the SRAM mountain derailleurs. And this works awesome! Absolutely no shifting problems, and I love love love that I never have chain slap - the roller clutch in the derailleur controls things even on the gnarliest of gravel roads/railroad crossings/uneven pavement.

[PATRICK MOORE]

I must thin more closely about a 1XN drivetrain. Tell me: does the Ram
have dt shifter bosses, or just housing stops? (I would have to
saw/file/dremel/and twist the left stop off.)

(Juuust kidding, Steve.)

In other news: talked at length yestiddy to a roadie employed by local
high end shop Fat Tire here on our westside. He told me he had ridden
some shop blowouts (no pun intended) of very high end and delicate
("800 miles") racing tubs all around town for 6-8 months and that the
Stan's had made this trouble free. Except! That Stan's will within 3-4
months coagulate and clump into little golf balls at one place in the
tire, thus causing a weight imbalance. Add more Stan's as required by
instructions and you gradually get larger golf balls. Still, I think
my plan, to go sew up if I can do so on the cheap, is a reasonable
one. Shop has "good" Vittorias for $35 and high end ones for $60.

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[Michael]

Why do you want sew ups?

More troublesome to fix, and more dangerous on descents due to heating up if the glue.

[PATRICK MOORE]

Sheer perversity. Seriously, I don't want to go to my grave without
having experienced what experienced cyclists have claimed to be the ne
plus ultra of tires. Am checking into a cheap package of used wheels
and tires even as we speak. We'll see.

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[Steve Palincsar]

On Thu, 2012-12-20 at 12:35 -0700, PATRICK MOORE wrote:
> I must thin more closely about a 1XN drivetrain. Tell me: does the Ram
> have dt shifter bosses, or just housing stops? (I would have to
> saw/file/dremel/and twist the left stop off.)
>
> (Juuust kidding, Steve.)

Mine had downtube shifter bosses.

[Peter Morgano]

I have a set of sew up wheels, dura ace hubs with a corn cob cluster. Free for the price of shipping if you want them. They have been in the basement for a couple years. Probably late 80s vintage.

[PATRICK MOORE]

Peter, I love you. (Properly.) That is just what I've been looking
for: free wheels.

How do you want to do this: I will happily pay shipping up front.

Many, many thanks! If and when I jetison them, I will be sure to pass
them on gratis to another user.

PAM

[Peter Morgano]

No problem, it won't be until next week though, if that's okay. Let's talk offline about shipping, it's unfortunately Greek to me.

[Bertin753]

Yes, alas, so does mine. Will have to use a double. Can' have that left boss empty.

Patrick Moore
iPhone

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[PATRICK MOORE]

That is very generous. Let me see what the other listmember has in his stash; otherwise, I'll be very happy to take you up on your offer.

Many thanks!

Patrick

On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 2:26 PM, Rambouilleting Utahn <gla...@gmail.com> wrote:

If your brake offer falls through I have a pair of the original calipers that came with my Ram just gathering dust. I would be glad to give them to you.

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[steel lugs]

No reason to leave it empty: http://www.flickr.com/photos/38991087@N05/8300578699/in/photostream