Crank puller help

[Zack]

hey all -

i need some counsel.  

i wrote last week about a front derailler problem (i smashed it into the outer chainring by accident, bending the FD and the chainring).

I have my new chainrings, and am attempting to use my Park Tool CCP 22 crank puller to get the driveside crank off.  i have it threaded into the crank (sugino xd2) and followed the directions for the tool, but i can't get the puller to budge.  I am a pretty strong dude and am putting my might into it, to no avail.  Holding non-driveside crank with my right arm, pushing down on crank puller with left.

Any ideas?

Is it usually pretty easy to get the crank off?

[Eric Norris]

Did you make sure to remove the washer under the crank bolt? If that's still there, the crank won't come off.

--Eric N

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[Peter Morgano]

Sorry to ask obvious questions but did you thread the nut all the way into your crank then screw the puller into that? I have found with older removals you need to really bottom out that first part of the assembly to get second part to give you the leverage you need.  Also you will notice puller has a small nipple at the top you can unscrew a bit to give you a bit more leverage. Sorry if this has all been tried. Good luck!

--

[William]

grease the bajeezus out of the threads between the two parts of the park tool.  

[David Yu Greenblatt]

Zack, if it is not coming off with that kind of effort something is wrong. As Eric said, make sure there is no washer between your crank and tool. Review these instructions:

http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/crank-installation-and-removal-square-spindle-type

Good luck,

David G, Madison WI

[Zack]

Eric -

I don't see a washer, I took off the dust cover, 

first part of the assembly was not screwed all the way into crank first time.

greasing it up and giving it a shot again.

[Kenneth Stagg]

On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Zack <zac...@gmail.com> wrote:

They can be a bit tough but not too bad. The washer that others have
mentioned is the most frequent problem - with that in there all you
could succeed in doing is ruining the threads. I've found that
instead of trying to get leverage through the frame (using the
off-side crank) I do better if I can line the crank puller's lever
just off-line with the crank I'm trying to remove so squeezing them
together works to pull the crank.

-Ken

[Zack]

nope.  

i can't get the first part of the assembly all the way into the crank, there is about 1/3" of threaded stuff left, even if i tighten with a wrench.

greasing didn't help.

is there something that could happen that would cause it to be particularly tough to get off?

also, i think that i have a different crank puller, i don't see a way to get more leverage with this thing.  (park tool ccp 22)

[Kenneth Stagg]

If you can only get two thirds of it in then something is still in
there - a bolt, a stack of washers or something similar. That or the
threads are already fragged. Maybe a picture of what they look like
would be useful.

The Park should provide plenty of leverage but lining it up near
parallel to the crank arm allows you to use a squeezing motion that
doesn't cause much rotation of the rest of the assembly that you need
to fight.

-Ken

[Andy Smitty Schmidt]

remove the handle part of the puller and confirm the plug part is ALL the way in with a big crescent wrench

thread the handle/bolt part back in until it bottoms out. 

then 

TAP it with a hammer... emphasis on TAP... do not swing and whack it... think finesse with force... not "I need a bigger hammer"

... it should come free with muscle though. 

--Andy

[Andy Smitty Schmidt]

on second thought a set of pics is a better idea

[Scott Postlewait]

On May 21, 2012, at 11:42 AM, Zack wrote:
> nope.
> i can't get the first part of the assembly all the way into the crank, there is about 1/3" of threaded stuff left, even if i tighten with a wrench.
> greasing didn't help.
> is there something that could happen that would cause it to be particularly tough to get off?

This is a good time to exercise one of the best pieces of advice I ever received from my father - when you encounter something that just won't give, step away from it for a while. Just step away. I tend to get so fixated on the problem that I don't immediately see the solution. (My guess is there's a washer in there that, for whatever reason, you aren't seeing right now).

Best,
Scott Postlewait
Seattle, WA

[Kenneth Stagg]

On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 1:55 PM, Scott Postlewait <chs...@drizzle.com> wrote:
> My guess is there's a washer in there that, for whatever reason, you aren't seeing right now.

Stopping to think about it the washer may not be obvious if you
haven't done this before. If you look in there and don't see the
_square_ hole of the crank arm where it mates with the spindle then
you've got something still in there.

-Ken

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

You removed the crank bolt first, right? And just to confirm, you have the tool specifically for square taper cranks (it has a blue handle, not a black handle)?

Often if it's not budging for some reason, you run the risk of stripping the dust cap threads if you apply that much force. If there are no bolts or washers in the way, then it should come off without so much effort.

You can probably replace the middle and big ring without removing the crank.

[Zack]

Ok, closing the loop -

I rode it over to the LBS, as I wasn't getting anywhere.

Sugino XD doesn't have one of the bolts inside, just FYI.  Has the dust cap cover thing, but that's it.

Took some penetrating oil and a few minutes of using a crank pulling tool that allowed for a long wrench handle.  Must have been on really tight, it was seized up a little bit.  I don't think there is any way I could have gotten it off w/ the little park tool, and neither did LBS mechanic dude.

So it's off now.  A follow-up question -

do you guys grease the threads of the bottom bracket taper thing?  LBS guy said never to do that, could be why it was on so tight.  wondering what the riv approach is with this one.  i haven't messed with the crank until now (it came installed by riv when I got the Sam).  

any tips for putting the crank back on?

[Andy Smitty Schmidt]

grease the taper?  YES. http://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/04/16/to-grease-or-not-to-grease/ 

[PATRICK MOORE]

Grease the taper and use a torque wrench. Note that Phil and Topline
(to name just two off the top of my head) both recommend/ed a bit o'
grease.

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[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

I'm a taper greaser.

(a little confused that you say there's no bolt holding the crank on, but it sounds like it worked out)

[Kenneth Stagg]

Auto-extractors?

-Ken

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[Michael Hechmer]

OMG, Zach, not the grease or don't grease the spindle question!  Your heads will spin before everyone is done weighing in on this.  For years I didn't, now I do, and I use a torque wrench to finish the job off.  Glad you got the old one off.

Michael

[Scott Henry]

One vote for me for NO GREASE, but I do recommend a torque wrench for reinstalling the arms.

Scott

[Scott Postlewait]

On May 21, 2012, at 1:00 PM, Zack wrote:

> do you guys grease the threads of the bottom bracket taper thing? LBS guy said never to do that, could be why it was on so tight. wondering what the riv approach is with this one. i haven't messed with the crank until now (it came installed by riv when I got the Sam).

I grease (usually wearing a helmet and thinking about what type of chain lube to use)

Scott "couldn't resist" Postlewait
Seattle, WA

[Zack]

ahah.  didn't know i was going to step into controversy the likes of helmet/no helmet with the whole grease thing.

the dust cover is also the bolt on the sugino crank.  

[Zack]

also, thanks for the help, much appreciated.

i don't have a torque wrench, so I most likely will get the bolt on as tight as i can and ride back to LBS.

[Eric Norris]

OK, I'll weigh in on this ... Not sure where I learned this, but I was taught not to grease square tapers, but to grease ISIS/splined setups. That's always worked for me.

--Eric N

[Seth Vidal]

Zack,
You said you were a strong guy? Don't put it on as tight as you can.
Snug it down - make sure it doesn't move - then go get the torque
wrench to finish it off.

A torque wrench takes all the guess work out of it and it makes me
feel much better about getting things installed properly.

-sv

[tarik saleh]

On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 2:22 PM, Zack <zac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ahah. didn't know i was going to step into controversy the likes of
> helmet/no helmet with the whole grease thing

I love the grease or no grease thread. If you want meaningful torque
numbers and if you want to be able to get your crank off one day, you
should grease the tapers. If you want to have your crank more or less
sieze on there, just go ahead and install the cranks on clean dry
tapers. Jan Heine has a typically good post on his blog about this
with some more reasoning on why campy may have said do not grease, but
I have never installed a crank with no grease and found it satisfying
mechanically or on removal, they go on like crap and come off worse.
Check out Jans post:
http://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/04/16/to-grease-or-not-to-grease/

I think Scott already mentioned this, but he is wrong - I want to
point out that I NEVER wear a helmet when installing tapers, otherwise
you are doing it wrong. A jaunty bandana around your neck is worse,
you may end up having to hacksaw your bottom bracket off the new bike
to finish your build.

Tarik



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Tarik Saleh
tas at tariksaleh dot com
in los alamos, po box 208, 87544
http://tariksaleh.com
all sorts of bikes blog: http://tsaleh.blogspot.com

[jimD]

I don't grease, I use chain lube. Very special chain lube.
Have found that it's crucial to do this operation only at sunrise while facing east.
The helmet is optional contingent on your willingness to accept risk.
Good luck,
JimD