"Just riding" in cold weather; also Silk Dikie, fin, and cold weather riding garb: how much is just right?, and Post Ride Drinks.

[PATRICK MOORE]

I've not felt like riding over the last few days -- we've had lows in the teens and highs just below freezing (29F just now at 2:45 pm MST); and winds, tho' today has been pretty calm; AND sunny for a change. But I've forced myself to just get out and ride and, once on the bike, I've managed to put in a couple of 13 mile detours over the last two days for 3 mile rt errands to post office and grocery store -- one let of the detour being a 2 mile out-and-back hill descent and climb. I say, thank God for short rides!

Neck warmth, silk dickie as earlier discussed, evaluation: too thin. I shall return (them). OTOH, I had a sacrificial merino turtleneck, that had already offered up its arms as arm warmers, give up the rest of its life to make a nice wool dickie with long, foldable turtleneck collar. I used this today (again, 28-29*F) over a ss wool jersey tucked into MUSA pants and under a Wabi Woolen ls jersey: just right, and better than the thick, fleece neck gaiters I have been using in such weather. 

The MUSAs (I've got the old style, which I like for their trim fit) are quite warm and certainly good down to the upper 20s, even with wind. Are the new model the same very densely woven, medium weight nylon? I have been surprised at how warm mine are -- certainly warmer than most nylon fabric over bare skin.

Adding to the insulation are a pair of thickish wool socks under my Euxstar leather SPD shoes -- today's pair being a Rivendell pair, but I actually find the 3 pair/$15 Costco ones warmer -- and they climb higher up your calf. (It's  nice to be able to slip out of boots into cycling shoes without bothering with tights, knicker socks, or booties.)

Hat is a custom wool cycling cap with earflaps by Little Package dot com, but 29F is pushing the limits of that one and it really is time to use my $12 Target, recycled wool faux Peruvian hat. (Below mid 20s I favor a balaclava under a hat of some sort.)

Lastly: one post-ride pleasure is a strong, hot drink. Me, I often make a toddy, usually bourbon + lemon juice + sugar + 2 additional parts of hot water. I take my cue from the grog given to British sailors: 8 oz rum/day in two servings diluted with 3 additional parts of water, with lime juice and sugar. But being American, I use Evan Williams. Today's however is a Mule using Russian Standard.

--

-------------------------
Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
-------------------------

[Mike]

Patrick, you know what Manny says... pictures proved it happened....

--mike

[Garth]

FWIW Patrick .... I ride in about the same temps as you.  I rather error on the side of too warm and vent as opposed to too cold and suffer that way .... lol.   I've been wearing these for 3-4 years now when it's below 40 .... I have 3 of them :)  http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3651739   

They're sweet because they are not tight fitting, yet have a elastic drawcord around the top that you can adjust to your liking ... great for venting.  The front is the longer part ... and the small black front top portion you see in the blue version is for breathing if you pull it up over your mouth, it's regular fleece. I buy only the black ones.

I tried an experiment on Christmas . It was about 32 and breezy.  Craft baselayer, Pearl Izumi Kodiak Jersey and a Patagonia Down Sweater Vest. I thought man .... will I roast in this ?  Actually .. No. It's a super lightweight 800-fill down vest and it allows for just enough natural airflow and of course, I unzip some as needed.  But oh what a surprise how I felt "just right" for the whole ride, as usually it's a battle between too cold and too hot wearing shell jackets and vests.

[PATRICK MOORE]

Oh, the ride was too short and, to anyone but the rider, rather uninteresting -- suburban feeder roads and residential streets. The hills were the best part.

On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 7:30 PM, Mike <mjaw...@gmail.com> wrote:

Patrick, you know what Manny says... pictures proved it happened....

--mike

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[PATRICK MOORE]

Garth -- what is that "Down sweater vest" you mention? I like vests for cycling (if the tail is long enough and the collar high enough) and can always think about getting another one.

Doesn't the mouth cover on that neck gaiter get in the way when you don't need it?

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[PATRICK MOORE]

Aha, found it. It does look warm, but does it breathe? I am a convinced fan of thin breathable layers -- only use a shell in the very coldest weather (for me, sub 20 F and windy).

[Garth]

With the neck gaiter, the "mouth" portion is part of the pattern, it's unnoticeable with flat seams except for that it is regular fleece, which blocks zero wind.  Here's a pic of the inside: https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-PUPU6Pp6Wlc/UOBsBqX9RCI/AAAAAAAABlY/0FU73AdhKFI/s1024/2012-12-30_11-29-12_847.jpg

This gaiter is not snug fitting ! Measures 11" across, 22' dia.  This is where the elastic drawcord comes into play.... you can close it to seal in the warmth, open it to vent . It's not a supple or flexible as thinner pure non wind resistant fleece is, but if I don't need it I just take it off for a thinner one. No Windstopper fabric is as flexible as regular fleece.

The number one issue in the cold is the evaporative cooling effect.  Whereas lots of airflow is great in summer, it is less so in winter as perspiration and cold air = massive cooling. Not desired in winter when trying to stay warm, and dry !  So the key is to always find the right balance of warmth, perspiration and airflow to balance .  



 The vest is not cycling specific. It's fine for my 75 inch height. I'm usually a stickler for longer backs, but in this case it doesn't matter as my core is warm.  That's probably why I thought a longer vest is "always needed" to stay warm, they were not warm enough to start with !!! So no extra length is going to make it any warmer . The collar is average also, not high, not low. But that is what the neck gaiter is for , as no collar goes high enough for me , NONE !  I dig the European high cut ones, but rare in America.  The vest is not windproof, and the insulation on the light side for a insulated vest. That what makes it great for cycling, it's a balance between insulating and breathable !  .. for me at least. Everyone is so different in comfort levels you really can't compare one to another.  Like you ... I always experiment to find my own suitable method as I'm the one residing in this body so who else is there to decide what works !! ?  I have tended to chill easily .. and sweat easily .  Not an ideal combo for winter. The real solution for me is to move to more mild climate :)

You might also think of other vests Patrick. Maybe a light fleece best would work for you if you need the airflow.  Patagonia makes an R1 vest which is light fleece and super breathable . http://www.patagonia.com/us/product/patagonia-mens-regulator-r1-vest?p=40140-1-175
as does Ibex if you want wool:  http://shop.ibex.com/Apparel/Mens-Vests-Jackets

I also use Pearl Izumi vest that has a mesh back that I use in milder conditions, I'm not sure if they make it anymore.

Vests are like the bees knees for versatility.

[Mojo]

Below about 15F I wear: on head- helmet cover, ear bags, a thin balaclava, and ski goggles; on top- light wool tshirt, Ibex breakaway jacket, zipable shell; on bottom- wool underwear, nylon overpants; feet- thick wool socks under a hiking leather shoe (with platform pedals, spd cleats transfer cold into the foot very quickly); hands- thin gloves under lobster mitts. Zipper and  balaclava adjustments seem to regulate temps pretty well.

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200384226227506&set=a.1108937722913.2018076.1210921748&type=1&theater

[Bill Gibson]

"Just riding" partially means wearing non-bicycle racer clothes to ride bikes. I've always done this, especially when the temperature goes below 65 F. Everything Patrick notes sounds great, what I do, too, even if I currently live where it almost never cools to point I need my vast store of experience. My three favorite pieces of wisdom for the cold weather are:

Dress a little lighter than you think you need, you'll warm up. 

Protect the hands and feet more than usual on a bicycle (including a thin produce bag vapor barrier in the shoe, over a thin liner sock). Wear a light, fuzzy Balaclava under the helmet; my favorite is a very breathable stretchy synthetic pile- a little unusual as I usually favor wool. Maybe that Aussie one on the rivbike.com. 

I am amused and pleased by Grant's inventions in the range of cool weather armour that is really very cycling specific, and yet no racing cyclist would be seen dead in: half-mitts, splats, a bib to block wind when descending. 

I'm lucky to have a good range of clothes, so "there's no bad weather, just bad clothes" for me. (No that's not true, there's bad weather=black ice.)

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[PATRICK MOORE]

Garth -- thanks for the further information on the gaiter and vest -- I'll have to look for them so I can examine them in person.

I like vests a lot myself, and in fact have at latest count four for cycling (Canondale and -- IIRC -- Performance shells, Cannondale fleece, and Ibex wool + lycra; and three for street wear -- Cahart padded and two thick woven wool ones, on a Filson, the other odd and rare French. Oh, and another dressy cotton one -- oh, and another thicker nylon one that, alas, is too short in the rear -- I am Medium in width but Large in torso length. 

My problem with "too short in back" -- and that goes in spades for pants: very rare are the cycling pants that come up high enough. It's not that skin is exposed, it's that I don't like the feeling of a waistband too low in back. I don't wear cycling shorts, so this is more of an issue for me.

I heat up pretty well in the cold -- rode to church this am at about 25*F in ss wool jersey with wool arm warmers under Riv heavy sweater jersey, with the new home made wool dicky; thin tights under Nashbar knickers and knicker socks; and light booties over my Euxstars, and Thinsulate-lined gloves. Oh, and Peruvian hat, which I heartily recommend as the best thing in winter cycling for earx (I don't like balaclavas unless it is really cold).

I was ready to put on my Lake winter boots but with the neoprene lining it looked like such a hassle that I just went with booties. I'll save the Lakes for extended rides and colder weather.

I can't wear house clothes to bike in at least in winter, as they usualy involve jeans or shorts. Jeans just don't work with my cycling setups -- and I do not at all want to ride 12 or 17 or 22 miles (typical weekday rides) in a sit up and beg position: I've tried it and hate it hugely -- it would make me give up cycling -- and, as always, YMMV. So I happily get kitted up.

Odd, I find that if my torso is warm, I can cut my extremities some slack. 36F on the way home with the two wool layers minus the dicky and my feet were fine without the booties.

I do agree that it is wise to start out a little bit cold -- it has always worked for me. Better than starting out warm end arriving soaked in sweat.

One last thing about riding in cold weather: man, I often feel sluggish! As if all the bearings were packed with glue and overtightened, with the brake rubbing too boot. I just take it easy and that seems to work. Oddly, I suffer more on the flats (72" gear) than on the inclines where I often stand. (FWIW: often I feel as if I am bogging down when seated, so I use the "pull the pedal round and up" technique to get a little extra torque, and it seems to work enough to get over a small rise or meet a momentary headwind.)

I think I may have to swap out the 16 t for a 17 -- we'll see.

[PATRICK MOORE]

I know, it amuses me too -- particularly expensive, special shoes for flat pedals. If you have to wear special clothes to cycle in -- as I prefer to do -- then why not use what is tried and true?

[Garth]

Hey ... whatever works Patrick !  Cycling specific-non cycling specific .... it's all good :)   It only matters to those with whom it matters.

I like wearing different clothes cycling or being outside. It's fun !   I don't wear jeans or leather or wool , and I would never wear any clothing Riv sells.   The "just ride" rouse works both ways ... a 2 way street.  For many wearing plastic clothing IS "just riding" .. for them !  So really ... who are any of us to question anyone about what they wear ... let alone much else !

How about ... Just BE "ME" !

Yeah ... I AM what I AM ... and it's ALL I AM !!!!

[Steve Palincsar]

On Sun, 2012-12-30 at 13:39 -0800, Garth wrote:
>
> Hey ... whatever works Patrick ! Cycling specific-non cycling
> specific .... it's all good :) It only matters to those with whom it
> matters.

Sometimes it's not equally all good. The way some clothes are cut, a
leaning-forward cycling position can be distinctly uncomfortable. Tops
may not be long enough in back, leaving exposed areas at the belt line,
or may pull and bunch up at the shoulders, for example. There are
plenty of winter jackets that are fine for walking, but turn into
straight-jackets when you ride, as well as pulling up enough to leave
several inches above the waist bare.

The more forward-leaning and extended your riding position is, the worse
these things become. If you're sitting upright riding a Raleigh Superbe
3-speed, you'd do just fine with a suit jacket and a long top coat, but
you probably couldn't even get started on a Raleigh Professional road
racer made in the same year.

Also, plenty of winter clothing is far too hot for riding. If the
clothing is made to be comfortable standing and waiting at a bus stop
(and you'd think they pick bus stop locations based on the coldest,
windiest places they can find, and then design the shelters so as to
accelerate the wind inside the shelter) it'll probably be unwearable
after 2 or 3 minutes riding because of the body heat you generate.

[PATRICK MOORE]

One last remark on this thread lest I become tedious and y'all shun me:

One great pleasure, for me, in the physical activity of riding a bike, is feeling how a particular body position on the bike translates into (1) muscular effort and (2) forward movement in (3) given riding conditions -- I mean incline, wind, suface. For me, having my butt back on a saddle slammed all the way back (73* seat tube angle) with arms gently resting on bar ramps, hoods, or in hooks, and feeling the resulting muscular effort translated into easy-feeling motion on an incline, say, is a huge pleasure -- augmented if you ride fixed because you must adapt your pedaling and cadence to the conditions, rather than adapt the latter to your pedaling by multiple gear ratios. This feeling of fitting perfectly, in this way, to the bike is particularly strong on a few bikes I've owned, notably my two remaining Rivs and the erstwhile Herse; less so but still so on the Fargo; less yet on the erstwhile Sam; etc. When I sit up straight, I lose that feeling entirely.

Note: when I build beaters to ride 1/2 mile to the store, they are sit-uppers. But they are horrible to ride with any energy -- for me.

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[Garth]

On Sunday, December 30, 2012 4:57:25 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:

On Sun, 2012-12-30 at 13:39 -0800, Garth wrote:

Well Steve .... I am someone who doesn't wear such clothing that is restrictive in any way :-)    I see all sorts of people wearing all sorts of clothing and they're enjoying themselves.  As children .... did we concern ourselves ever about what we wearing outside or in ?   We grow into these perspectives where we buy into needing or wanting this or that for infinite reasons .... but at the heart of it all is the feeling of satisfaction ...... release and relief .  It's never about the "stuff" .... it's forever about the feeling of being and the stuff is like "props" and we the actors of very own play ... called "my life"  :)

[Steve Palincsar]

On Mon, 2012-12-31 at 05:27 -0800, Garth wrote:
>
> Well Steve .... I am someone who doesn't wear such clothing that is
> restrictive in any way :-)

And I spent five years riding to work every day wearing sports jackets,
blazers and suits. When I changed jobs and moved to a new location, the
feeble braking of the DL-1 and the steep hill with a traffic light at an
intersection with one of the busiest streets in downtown Washington DC
necessitated a change of bikes; and although the clothing I wore at work
hadn't changed, the new bike and its different riding position meant I
could no longer wear work clothes while riding, so I switched to
carrying work clothes in panniers.

I'd been a recreational rider for many years by then, and had a large
supply of used cycling clothing, mostly worn out and not quite fit for
long weekend duty. So I wore that, adding Army surplus: sweaters, wool
field trousers and work gloves for the cold weather.

> I see all sorts of people wearing all sorts of clothing and they're
> enjoying themselves.

I don't go swimming much, but every time I have done I've always seen
people wearing bathing suits, not jeans and t shirts.

Similarly, although you don't need a baseball glove when you're playing
stick ball, you definitely do need one when you switch to hardball. You
pretty much need a baseball cap, too, otherwise you can't see anything
when you're looking into the sun.

So, is that stuff "clothing" or is it "specialized sporting equipment"?

> As children .... did we concern ourselves ever about what we wearing
> outside or in ?

Yes, of course. Perhaps your parents did not dress you in a winter coat
that was so heavy and stiff it left you with your arms sticking out
straight to the sides like a gingerbread man, unable to bend down, to
move your arms or do much other than stand around posing.

When I was a kid, it was common for parents to send their children out
to play with last year's outgrown shoes as their "play shoes." Ever try
to play baseball in a pair of leather soled dress shoes? It was
absolutely fabulous when I got a pair of high top sneakers!

> We grow into these perspectives where we buy into needing or
> wanting this or that for infinite reasons .... but at the heart of it
> all is the feeling of satisfaction ...... release and relief . It's
> never about the "stuff" .... it's forever about the feeling of being
> and the stuff is like "props" and we the actors of very own play ...
> called "my life" :)
>

I'm not talking about play acting and props. I'm talking about
function. I've tried to ride a century wearing soft soled sneakers, Y
fronts and cut off denim jeans made into shorts. My mind still has the
scars, and every time I hear Johnny Cash singing "Ring of Fire" I think
of that abortive attempt.

[justin...@gmail.com]

I woe jeans swimming most of my childhood. Jean shorts at least!

There's a marked difference between the swim suit you probably wear and the one Michael Phelps wears, including the hat, goggles, hairless body, etc. to lump things into two categories is silly and reductive. There's a gradient of clothes, gear, cycles, destinations/purpose of ride, etc. Hopefully you fit all of them together into a combination that works for you. These combinations obviously change when one or more aspects change and you can go from a morning commuter on a drop bar bike who changes in the office bathroom to a late night bar hopper in casual clothes heading to the bar. Maybe the same person who outs on their spandex on the weekend rides their Raleigh 3 speed in a suit and tie come Monday. Seasons and weather are just another part of the equation to consider. Getting into the weeds of classification is divisive and fairly pointless.

-J, in PHL

[Steven Frederick]

I'm not Patrick but I did get a shot of a snow ride I did just before
the new year--MUSA pants are indeed great in the winter. Wool
(Smartwool, mostly) under them and on top, too...not the most Rivish
bike but a fun time...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/40738390@N08/8322712653/

Steve

On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 9:30 PM, Mike <mjaw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Patrick, you know what Manny says... pictures proved it happened....
>
> --mike
>
>
>

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[Bruce Herbitter]

Yes, Wooly Warm tights under MUSA pants is an excellent winter combo. Layering up top works well too in the cold and damp. Spot Cycles (Vancouver) made some really nice heavy wool jerseys for when it gets seriously cold.  

Nice pic