What's the shortest stem that you would use?

[Solomander]

I have an 8 cm stem on my AHH (started with a 10 cm) and still feel a little bit stretched out when I ride on the hoods.  This leads me to believe that I would be more comfy on a slightly smaller frame, but that's neither here nor there.  I have started to think about a 6 cm stem, but recall that some people think that a short stem has an adverse effect on handling.  Any opinions on this?

Joel

[newenglandbike]

I say go for it.   There's a reason why they make them in 6 and even 5cm lengths after all.    If you look at bicycles throughout history, 6 or even down to 4cm stems are not uncommon, even among racing machines of former eras.   There are even zero offset stems.    I call bullshit on so-called "short" stems adversely affecting handling.    First of all, I doubt you'll notice any difference, other than perhaps being more comfortable.   Secondly, you can get used to almost any change in handling, even if you *do* feel a difference (you won't).


Matt

[Seth Vidal]

Is the stem at it's max height?

If not - think about raising it before shortening it.

Remember as the bars go UP your arms get LONGER b/c they don't have to
go out and DOWN at the same time.

Get dem bars up!

-sv

[Solomander]

Seth-  The bars are at the same height as the seat.  They're comfy in that regard and I can ride in the drops, which I can't do for long on my regular road bike.  I was also thinking about getting shorter reach handlebars.  I am running Noodles.  Mark's bars have a 1.5 cm shorter reach, which might do the trick too.  I will raise the bars a bit for tomorrow's ride and see how it goes.

Joel

[Seth Vidal]

You don't have to go up much. go up a centimeter, go up two centimeters and see what the difference is.

-sv

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[Bill M.]

What brake levers do you use?

I have come to believe that traditional bend bars like the Noodle were
designed for the brake levers that were is use a decade or two ago.
Modern brake levers (be they Ergo, STI or Tektro) fit differently.
They allow a hand position that's a good couple of cm further forward
than older levers. I find I'm happier with a bar with less reach to
compensate for that. I really like the current crop of short reach,
shallow drop 'compact' bend bars. Unfortunately there aren't many
that will fit a 26 mm clamp.

Shortening the stem or raising the bar will change the location of the
tops. If you're comfortable on the tops and too stretched out on the
hoods, the only way to change that relationship is with a different
bar.

Bill

[Ryan J]

I use a 7cm stem on my Hillborne and a dirt drop on my Jamis Aurora, which is effectively quite short and don't notice a decrease in stability at all from the longer stems I have used previously.  It has been my experience that the width of your handlebars has more to do with perceived front end stability than stem length. 

[Kevin M]

Yea, If you're using Tektros with the noodles, that's a long combination.  Try a traditional Shimano lever with a Nitto Randonneur or B115; I find those combinations very comfortable

[PATRICK MOORE]

You might also consider narrower bars. I use 46 cm Noodles on my Fargo
(3 cm above saddle) and 37 or 38 cm Belleris and GB Maes clones on the
road bikes (3 cm below saddle): same reach to hood tips and hooks,
roughly. TTs are all within 5 mm of each other. I find it even easier
to adapt between the vastly different bar widths and heights than I do
between the 160 mm Q of the Fargo and the roughly 130 of the Rivendell
fixies.

Patrick Moore, finding a cheap Moscato surprisingly refreshing after a
21 mile fixed ride in 95F heat with the humidity at an unconscionable
21% in "monsoon season" -- hah! -- ABQ, NM. (I chose it to go with
freshly made Spring Rolls. Burritos and beer -- yah!)

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(Rilke, Buddha in Glory)

[Solomander]

It is the reach of the bars.  I am using Campy Ergos and am comfortable on the tops of my Noodles.  I was originally thinking about bars with a shorter reach, but as Bill mentioned, there aren't many short reach options in 26mm.  I have raised the bars and will see how things sort out on tomorrow's ride.  Plan B should probably be a set of Mark's bars.  Thanks for all of your advice.

Joel

[Jay LePree]

Hi all,

I will address two points, and I acknowledge my findings are
empirical.

My Redline Monocog 29er has a very short stem, perhaps only 5 to 6 cm
with, essentially a straight bar. I have no problems steering it
through single track, over roots, stones, logs etc.

I have noticed the Noodles have a long reach. I have two sets of bars
that I swap out on my Carrera Andromeda. One is Bontrager VR that
uses a 10 cm stem. The other set is a Noodle that I use a 8 CM stem
to get the same reach. I have not experienced differences in handling
either way.

You could try new compact handlebar as recommended already, or you
could switch the stem to a shorter version. Neither of which should
effect handling in a way that you could not adapt to. As already
discussed a 1 cm raise on the bars would bring them closer to you. It
could be a cheaper and fast alternative.

Jay
Demarest, NJ

[Doug Van Cleve]

I would try the shorter reach bars if raising the stem doesn't cut it.  I personally think 8-9cm is as short as a stem should get.  Most (all?) of the Nitto drop bars are fairly long reach compared to truly short reach bars.  Bontrager has a black 26.0 modern compact bar.  I suppose somebody industrious could de-black the center section that shows...

Doug

[PATRICK MOORE]

FWIW, I have three pairs of short reach Nitto 185s for sale: 90 mm
reach, 140 m drop (per the published specs). 2 are groove-less and 42
cm, t'other is groovy and 44 cm. $20 each plus shipping.

FWIW again, I use 8 cm (Nitto style) stems and, compared to longer
stems, I can find no real defect compared to the longer ones I've used
(I've used up to 14 cm).

Patrick Moore, who has just switched from lower, nearer bars to
higher, further bars on his road bikes.

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[Solomander]

Pat,

The Noodles have a 95 mm reach, so I need something shorter than that.  The only possible Nitto would be Mark's bars, which are 82.  There seem to be some Salsa, Ritchey and Bontrager bars that have a reach of 75 mm, but they're all black.  At least they're relatively inexpensive.  Wonder if a 13 mm decrease in drop would be enough.

Joel

[Bertin753]

Hmm .. I thought the Mark was a lighter, nicer 185 -- I may well be wrong. In any event, good luck and please post your solution.

Sent from my iPhone

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[Solomander]

So I raised the bars a bit.  It definitely helped to make me feel less stretched out.  I also noticed that my center of gravity was shifted back on the bike and that I had less weight on the bars and more on the seat.  Didn't make a noticeable difference in speed- I'm still a slug.  I'm going to live with the bike for a few weeks before doing anything else.

I am also thinking about rechecking my fore-aft saddle position.  I have a road bike that I feel very comfortable on.  The distance from the nose of the saddle to the center of the bars is the same on my Litespeed and my AHH.  The Litespeed has a straight seatpost and the AHH has a set back seatpost.  This makes me wonder if I am in the right place over the pedals.  Lots of variables!

Joel

[PATRICK MOORE]

Be sure to gauge the saddle setback independently of reach to saddle
IOW, don't try to adjust reach by setback -- setback is a starting
point because it determines your power and comfort wrt the immovable
bb.

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[stevef]

If you think about it, a 2cm shorter stem with the noodles would move the hoods back only a bit more than switching to the shorter reach Mark's bars.  So I don't think there'd be any difference in handling there, especially if you're talking about handling while your hands are on the hoods or drops.  If raising the bars doesn't offer sufficient improvement, Id go by this:  if you like the long flat ramp of the Noodles for resting your hands on, get a shorter stem and maybe narrower Noodles.  If you usually ride on the hoods anyway, maybe try the Mark's bars.  (which will not have as flat a ramp nor will the hooks be nearly parallel to the ramps, so they would feel quite different...)

[Solomander]

Just went out to the garage with a plumb line.  The seat seems to be right on the money, in the same relative position as on my Litespeed. I am going to wait a week or two before doing anything else.  I keep waffling about whether to change the bars or the stem.  The tops of my Noodles are in the same relative position as the anatomic bars on my Litespeed.  On the one hand, Mark's bars will likely move the hoods back far enough.  OTOH, I like the Noodles and doubt that moving the tops back an inch will make that much of a difference.  I may wind up flipping a coin  :)

Joel

[René Sterental]

Current mountain biking setup advice for stem length and handlebar width:

Always couple a shorter stem with wider bars or a longer stem with shorter bars. 

On my dual suspension bike, I went with a larger frame (longer top tube by about 1") so I could run a 9 cm stem with very wide bars and maintain the reach I had on my previous smaller frame with a 110/120 stem. The handling improved tremendously on technical terrain. 

On my 61 AHH, where I still have 48 Noodles, I'm running a 6cm stem. I was doing the same on the Atlantis before switching to the Touring bar. I'm not riding the AHH that much right now but when I do, I love how it handles. Actually, that happens every time I switch to ride another of my bikes after not having ridden it for a while. 

So, if going to a shorter stem, go with wider bars to slow the handling down a bit and keep it from becoming twitchy. I'd think that the same would apply to shorter reach bars, especially if you're doing both. For a cm it so it's probably not worth it, but keep it in mind for larger changes. 

Rene

Sent from my iPhone 4

On Aug 7, 2011, at 6:08 PM, Solomander <Solom...@aol.com> wrote:

Just went out to the garage with a plumb line.  The seat seems to be right on the money, in the same relative position as on my Litespeed. I am going to wait a week or two before doing anything else.  I keep waffling about whether to change the bars or the stem.  The tops of my Noodles are in the same relative position as the anatomic bars on my Litespeed.  On the one hand, Mark's bars will likely move the hoods back far enough.  OTOH, I like the Noodles and doubt that moving the tops back an inch will make that much of a difference.  I may wind up flipping a coin  :)

Joel

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[Solomander]

Rene,

Your point is well taken.  I'm giving the bike one more weekend as is, then will see.  I am leaning towards a 6 cm stem.  My 46 cm bars are wider than they are on my other bike.  

Joel

[Zack]

Thought this explanation may be helpful for you: http://www.rivbike.com/assets/payloads/270/original_Excerpt_Top_Tube_Ruse_Layout_1.pdf

I would echo the posters that suggest you get the bars up higher to solve your problem of feeling stretched out. (so would mutton chop marv)

[Solomander]

Zack,

 

Thanks for the link - got it and understand. At my new, higher handlebar height, there is an improvement in reach, but it's accompanied by a change in my center of gravity.  I'm still adjusting to it, but am not sure if I like the change in my fore-aft balance on the bike.  If I don't, I will go for a shorter stem.

 

Best,

 

Joel

[Solomander]

OK, did a 24 mile ride this morning and raising the bars seems to have done the trick.  I am reasonably comfortable on the hoods for long periods.  When on the hoods, the tops are just about lined up with the front hub, which is another positioning indicator that seems to work for me.  Now it's time to put on some mileage. Thanks for everyone's input.

Joel