So Torn, Cannot Decide

[Peter M]

So finally have the funds and approval from the wife to go ahead and
buy a new riv frameset only really cannot decide which one. I was
leaning towards the Hillborne but now looking at the Atlantis I really
like the finish and the fact I could go to huge tires if I wanted to
one day. I currently live in NYC but am moving back upstate soon so
need something I can take on gravel roads and not wipe out. IThe
question is, is the Atlantis overkill? I know it is twice the price
but that is not really a concern (well it is but I am willing to spend
the extra if it means having the best bike out there). I was also
looking at the Hunqapillar but it seems to be more of MTB with a short
headtube and I really want to get the bars nice and high for my
Albatross bars. Also can someone who owns a 58cm Atlantis let me know
how it fits? I am 5'11" with a PBH of 85.5, most definitely not a
racer at 250lbs. The geometry at Riv is currently down so not sure how
the 58 would fit but would really like to stick with 700c wheels since
I already have an MB-2 with 26ers. Thanks for any words of wisdom out
there on the group.

[Leslie]

A) Cyclofiend's site makes a great backup when looking for sizes, etc.:  http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/atlantis/index.html

B) The Hunq is a Riv, you'll be able to get the bars high w/ an Albatross, too, I'd expect;  no worries there, I don't think.

C) You can't go wrong w/ an Atlantis.

D) Either would be great.  I'd lean towards the Atlantis, I think, maybe, but, either will work, and well.

E) Actually, I think the Hilborne would work well too, and the Hilsen.  And a Bombadil. 


I know, not much help.   I just think, any of them will be fine, you should be able to set any of them up in a suitable fashion for your needs.   It's not like you're trying to put 50's on a Ram (something that wouldn't happen), but the Atlantis is *the* versatile bike, but the Hillborne and the Hilsen are both right there with it; the Hunq is more of a MTB, but it's not like suspension bike, it'd be fine for your use, as would the Bomba...  

You can't make a 'bad' choice here.  

Good luck...

[Leslie]

Okay, thinkin' a little more, scratch the Bombadil off your list if you're wanting to stick w/ 700c wheels, as it'd be getting a bit tall.  But for your PBH, the others would work.   I suppose, maybe the quote off the bottom of the models page might summarize it:

"All of our bikes ride the same way. Nicely neutral. They all allow you to raise the handlebar good & high. The biggest difference is tire capacity and brake type. If you ride mostly huge tires, get a bike like the Hunqapillar or Atlantis or Bombadil, made for V-brakes or cantilevers. If you ride 32s to 40s almost always, get one of the others."

So, how big of a tire are you really wanting to ride?   The Hunq or the Atlantis if BIG, the Hilborne or the Hilsen if not quite huge but still comfy. 

FWIW....

[Joe Bernard]

Leslie makes some excellent points. You also may want to talk to Grant/Mark/John, et al, about weight limits for each bike. I know the Atlantis is built a little stouter than the Sam, but I doubt you exceed the limits of either. Other than that and Leslie's advice about tire preference, I say, pick the one you like staring at the longest.

[dougP]

Peter:

That's a pleasant problem to have: which Rivendell? I'll encourage
the Atlantis idea, since I have over 8 years & well over 30,000 miles
experience with mine.

I'm 5'11" with a PBH of 85 cm, and a seat height of 77 cm, and ride a
58 cm Atlantis with 10 cm stem. It's the most comfortable bike I've
owned. There's a chart of sizes, PBHs & saddle heights. According to
that, I could ride either a 58 or 61 but IMHO the 58 is perfect. I
wouldn't want anything larger. I know stand-over height is a bit
controversial but I like being able to plant both feet flat and not
worry about clearance.

The versatility was one of the main attractions. When I bought mine
in '03, my intended primary use was loaded touring but since then it's
become the bike I ride 96% of the time. It was a standard Riv build,
including 35 mm Pasela tires. I've gradually gone to heavier duty and
wider tires and currently use 40 mm Schwalbe Marathon Supremes. They
are noticably better in soft dirt than 35s and are decent on gravel.
I've fitted 50 mm and it has lots of clearance but for now the 40s are
fine for what I do (mostly paved). 50s would be better for riding a
lot of gravel, soft dirt, etc.

You can't go wrong with an Atlantis.....heck, with any Rivendell!
Hope this helps, & let us know what you decide.

dougP

[René Sterental]

Forth utmost versatility, today I'd tell you to go for the Hinqapillar. You cannot go wrong with the Atlantis either, but for higher bars, greater loads and do it all, I just love my Hunqapillar a tiny bit more than I love my Atlantis... Especially with Bullmoose bars...

I'm 5'11" and ride a 61 Atlantis/Homer and a 58 Hunqapillar. 

René

Sent from my iPhone 4

On Oct 4, 2011, at 9:31 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Leslie makes some excellent points. You also may want to talk to Grant/Mark/John, et al, about weight limits for each bike. I know the Atlantis is built a little stouter than the Sam, but I doubt you exceed the limits of either. Other than that and Leslie's advice about tire preference, I say, pick the one you like staring at the longest.

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[Tim McNamara]

Make it simple.

I'd say make the choice based on tires. What are the widest tires you are likely to use? If it's 2" tires, go with an Atlantis or a Hunq. If it's 45 mm you can go with any of them except maybe the Hunq.

Then consider purpose. If you're going to load up and go on tour, probably go with the Atlantis. If you're riding across the Pamir Highway, maybe the Hunq although I've have no doubt about the Atlantis. For loads up to (pulling a number out of thin air) 25 lbs then any of them will do fine.

[Kelly Sleeper]

Recheck size though. My wife is 5' 10" and has a 61 Atlantis.. Rides great ..looks great...but then they all do.

Kelly

[Thomas Lynn Skean]

Hi!

In your case, the 54 Hunq and the 58 Atlantis seem like they'd both fit really well. The geo chart I have suggests the contact points on those are super close. Between those two, it looks like aesthetics would rule. Unless you contemplate mountain biking (not just normal trail riding), then the Hunq might have the edge.

For the record, @245 I'm in your weight class and have been so completely thrilled with my 60 Hillborne that I'm getting another. The 56 might work well for you. I've never felt like having anything fatter that a 40 tire under my fenders, riding marginal roads and decent trails all of 6,000 miles.

Yours,
Thomas Lynn Skean

[Forrest]

dougP wrote:  "I'm 5'11" with a PBH of 85 cm, and a seat height of 77 cm, and ride a 
58 cm Atlantis . . ."  

Same for me, Peter.  If you have the budget, I'd go Atlantis, just for larger tire options/versatility -- and because you might regret it if you don't get it when you have the chance. The Hillborne (which I used to own in a 56) is a very fine frame, too, of course. If I ever was going to do lots and lots of rough-stuff riding verging on mountain-bikey-type stuff, I'd look at the Hunquapillar (sp?), but I think the Atlantis will be up for anything I'm really likely to do much.  -- Forrest (Iowa City)

[Michael Hechmer]

Peter, I live in a town in VT with virtually no paved roads so a lot of my riding is on dirt roads and nearly all of them, at the least, begin and end with a couple of miles of dirt roads.  Tire size capacity is certainly a big variable in choosing a frame.  I ride  35's (actual) when I will be on dirt roads most of the time and really like the combination of comfort, grip, and  responsiveness.  I don't think you necessarily need anything bigger than that, but there are times, like winter, when having the ability to put a big studded tire on is nice.

If I were in your place, and could afford it, I would leap at the Atlantis.  You can run Jack Browns for cruising around the many great paved roads in the Adirondack Park and go bigger if you want to ride dirt.  Upstate NY soils are noticeably sandier than VT, so bigger may be a help.

Also, Don't let brake choice drive the decision.  I rode side pull almost exclusively for 25 years but have gradually switched over entirely to cantis and center pulls because they work so well and give better fender clearance.  If you spring for the Atlantis, also go for a nice set of Paul's Neo Retros. They are very easy to set up, at least the second time you do it, and will last as long as the bike.

Sometimes life doesn't present us with any good choices, this is one of those times when there isn't a bad choice!

Enjoy,

michael

[Ginz]

The max tire on the Hillborne with fenders, 38-40mm, would not satisfy
me on a gravel road. I would go Atlantis for that reason. But, I
like my big tires -- 26 x 1.75" minimum!

If you were going after the sidepull/centerpull Hillborne, that might
make the decision more difficult. But, I don't see going for a
Hillborne with canti's when one can get an Atlantis. If the $500
difference bothers you, go Hunqapillar! Sorry to add to the
confusion.

Ginz

[Garth]

Peter, Getting a wider tired bike is never overkill!  Like others have said.... do consider the Hunqapillar.  Personally, though I have a Bombadil only. ... I would only consider a Hunq because the ability to ride higher bars than the Atlantis, and the extra tube does add stiffness to the front end which adds to the stability. This is an overlooked and subtle thing, but it is noticeable to me in a 60cm. Bombadil vs. my custom 62cm.Reynolds 531ST frame.

If color is consideration, you can always get the Hunq frame painted any color you wish. I asked Keven how much for a single color repaint, no fancy pin stripes, just a basic color, he told be about $100 from their painter. That is more than reasonable :)

[Minh]

I think that these two models 'ride' similiar enough that you can make
the decision based on the details.
* Atlantis has nicer paint, fancier lugs
* Atlantis is US built (unless you need the larger size Hillborne)
* Atlantis will take a bigger tire (fendered or unfendered)
* side-pulls vs cantis
* cost (depends on which Hillborne you need)

are any of those important to you?

I have a SH, and run 37mm tires (fendered), sometimes i would like a
fatter tire, but i only ride groomed/hard gravel.

[Larry Powers]

I am 6'1" and ride a 61 Atlantis and feel it is one of my best fitting bikes.  Depends on how you like it to fit.

Larry Powers
 
Get a bicycle.  You will not regret it if you live. - Mark Twain

 

> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 22:47:50 -0700
> From: tksl...@gmail.com
> To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: So Torn, Cannot Decide

>
> Recheck size though. My wife is 5' 10" and has a 61 Atlantis.. Rides great ..looks great...but then they all do.
>
> Kelly
>

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> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

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[Liesl]

 I ride  35's (actual) when I will be on dirt
> roads most of the time and really like the combination of comfort, grip, and
>  responsiveness.  I don't think you necessarily need anything bigger than
> that, but there are times, like winter, when having the ability to put a big
> studded tire on is nice.

Yes, if you ever think you'll want studded tires with fenders for
winter riding, having oodles of room is vital.

liesl in soon-to-be-winter minneapolis
>

[William]

The Atlantis has those dreamy chainstays, too. 

[Peter M]

All great advice guys, I was leaning towards the Hunq for a while
because it doese look beautiful but from the pics the headtube looks
really small on the 54 (the one I would fit on) so I was worried it
would be flexy in the cockpit area if I had too much stem exposed,
even if it is a nitto stem and all. I think the smallest tires I would
ride would be 38s for around town and when going offroad upstate NY
probably 50s. I know either bike would suit me but it seems like for
someone with a PBH of 84ish like me the Hunq would allow me to run the
biggest tires available and still have some standover room, if I am
reading the geometry chart correctly that is. I can get used to cantis
but it will be some adjustment as I am coming from riding European 531
frames. My MB2 is actually my wife's new whip since she is 5'10"and
loves my IGH in the rear, triple up front set up so I havent gotten
alot of practice with the cantis. Anyone with the Hunq who likes to
sit upright have advice on how much stem I will need to have to get it
to fit right, assuming 72cm saddle height? (sorry if I double posted
this, still getting used to how the new groups features work)

[Jay]

The last RR had a page with pictures and profiles of all the current
models.
Probably doesn't add any new information but it might be helpful to
look at.

Jay

On Oct 5, 6:40 am, René Sterental <orthie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Forth utmost versatility, today I'd tell you to go for the Hinqapillar. You
> cannot go wrong with the Atlantis either, but for higher bars, greater loads
> and do it all, I just love my Hunqapillar a tiny bit more than I love my
> Atlantis... Especially with Bullmoose bars...
>
> I'm 5'11" and ride a 61 Atlantis/Homer and a 58 Hunqapillar.
>
> René
>
> Sent from my iPhone 4
>

> On Oct 4, 2011, at 9:31 PM, Joe Bernard <joerem...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Leslie makes some excellent points. You also may want to talk to
> Grant/Mark/John, et al, about weight limits for each bike. I know the
> Atlantis is built a little stouter than the Sam, but I doubt you exceed the
> limits of either. Other than that and Leslie's advice about tire preference,
> I say, pick the one you like staring at the longest.
>
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> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> To view this discussion on the web visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/CjlAe9S8GlcJ.

[Thomas Lynn Skean]

On Wednesday, October 5, 2011 9:07:31 AM UTC-5, Peter M wrote:

All great advice guys, I was leaning towards the Hunq for a while
because it doese look beautiful but from the pics the headtube looks
really small on the 54 (the one I would fit on) so I was worried it
would be flexy in the cockpit area  if I had too much stem exposed,
even if it is a nitto stem and all.

------

I haven't done the arithmetic. But I'd be surprised if the top of the head tube on the 58cm Atlantis was more than a millimeter or two higher than the top of the head tube on a 54cm Hunqapillar. The Atlantis might even be a tiny bit lower.

The standover on the Atlantis is 4 millimeters higher. But the Hunqapillar's top tube angles up more. It's gonna be really close either way.

In any event, I would really not expect flex to be more of an issue on one versus the other.

As a person who often rides with a maximally exposed Dirt Drop 100 stem, I notice no significant flex in any of my Nitto cockpits. I wouldn't even contemplate it as a distinguishing factor between these models. Now, I'm probably not the best test of flex tolerability, though... my butt virtually never leaves the saddle.

Yours,
Thomas Lynn Skean

[Joe Bernard]

Yeah, I wouldn't be too concerned about headtube height on a Hunqapillar. It's designed with Grant's newfound interest in steeply sloped-up toptubes. The Atlantis has a more traditional design, with a tall headtube.

[Kelly Sleeper]

It's all great discussion.. Call Rivendell for fit and talk about the bike and needs with them. It works very well that way.

Just saying. :)

Kelly

[Kelly Sleeper]

My statement was based on experience with Rivendell. From suggestions on build to fit to final product. There has never been pressure to buy or make a decision today.

I trust Rivendell more so than forum. Not to mention this as other forums is all over the map on every subject from tire width to weight which will give more confusion than clarity.

So if you want the right bike, and right fit, call Rivendell... Easy .. Straight forward and best bet in the long run. At least it's worked for many people I've talked to , my wife and I.

FYI above is not meant ad insult to anyone.

[Kelly Sleeper]

[charlie]

Get the 54cm Hunk.....it has thicker tubing and can fender the largest
tires. You'll have no problem getting the Albatross bar high enough on
that size frame, at your height, with those bars. If you are
traditional minded, want more of a road machine, get the Atlantis
especially if you don't mind running narrower rubber. The Sam is nice
for a road bike at your weight but you need a beefier frame for trail
riding and more rough stuff. Not that the Sam couldn't handle it but
the other two frames have more margin built in with the Hunk being at
the top of the list. I am 255-257 now at 5'11" 86.4 cm PBH 76cm SH ( I
would fit a 58cm Atlantis) and while the Atlantis is rated to 275
pounds more or less that doesn't give you as much room for a load.
Never seen a load limit on the Hunk but with decent wheels I expect it
to be high maybe 300+. Ya gotta think about those things. I do mostly
pavement riding and I am really careful but I would need a Hunk for
loaded touring, trail riding and versatility. Just sayin......

[robert zeidler]

Being fortunate enough to have one or more of each.....get the
Atlantis. After a while it will be the riding equivalent of your
favorite pair of jeans. Love may be too strong a word, but only just.

RGZ

On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Peter M <uscpet...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So finally have the funds and approval from the wife to go ahead and
> buy a new riv frameset only really cannot decide which one. I was
> leaning towards the Hillborne but now looking at the Atlantis I really
> like the finish and the fact I could go to huge tires if I wanted to
> one day. I currently live in NYC but am moving back upstate soon so
> need something I can take on gravel roads and not wipe out. IThe
> question is, is the Atlantis overkill? I know it is twice the price
> but that is not really a concern (well it is but I am willing to spend
> the extra if it means having the best bike out there).  I was also
> looking at the Hunqapillar but it seems to be more of MTB with a short
> headtube and I really want to get the bars nice and high for my
> Albatross bars. Also can someone who owns a 58cm Atlantis let me know
> how it fits? I am 5'11" with a PBH of 85.5, most definitely not a
> racer at 250lbs. The geometry at Riv is currently down so not sure how
> the 58 would fit but would really like to stick with 700c wheels since
> I already have an MB-2 with 26ers. Thanks for any words of wisdom out
> there on the group.
>

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[Mike]

Hey Peter, folks have shared a lot of great insight and experience on
this thread. I'll just be redundant and say, call up the folks at Riv,
talk to them and trust them. I own two Rivs, a Quickbeam I picked up
used and a Hilsen I've had for 3 years. I used to have a Rambouillet
but just didn't need it with the Hilsen and it was just a tad small.
Given your stated plans for the bike I say go with an Atlantis. I
purchased an LHT for touring earlier this year and just love it. LOVE
IT! Can't say enough good things about it. Given my experiences with
the various Rivs and my LHT, I say go for an Atlantis. I don't see how
you could go wrong.

--mike

[John Bennett]

Dear Joe,

I figure you mean internal pressure, not from us. In my 11 years here,
I've never heard anyone go even close to that on the phone or in
person. In fact, sort of the opposite!

Cheers,

John @ RBW HQ

On Oct 5, 3:26 pm, Joe Bernard <joerem...@gmail.com> wrote:
> That's good advice, Kelly, but if Peter is anything like me, he'd rather get
> some "outside" impressions on a forum before getting into a direct phone
> call. There's a certain "pressure" that comes with taking that next step
> which some of us find a little intimidating. Or maybe it's just me..

[Jim Mather]

Here's the Atlantis geometry on Cyclofiend's site:
http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/atlantis/rr21_pg18scr.jpg

[Peter M]

Oh I have called Riv a few times just to pester them with a million
questions and never had anyone ask me to buy something or made me feel
like I was wasting thier time. They are all really awesome guys. The
issue is that in the NYC area it is hard to find anyone who owns a
Rivendell to give it a test ride let alone a dealer to get to up close
and personal. I know Harris has some models but again that is a bit of
a Trek (4 hours in the car) for me from Brooklyn and since I have been
blissfully car free since 2004 I would have to bum a ride from
somebody which I hate having to do. I just would hate buying something
and then deciding its just not for me but realize I have to pull the
trigger on something. I wish someone had a 52cm Sam for sale so I
could see if it was indeed too small, at 84ish PBH I fall right in
that middle ground of alot of riv bikes but have never had the chance
to actually ride one to see on what side of the divide I fall. I might
just wind up buying the 56cm Sam to see how it fits since it is the
cheapest option and sell it this summer to pick up the Atlantis.
Losing a couple hundred on the Sam will hurt less than losing over 500
on the Atlantis if I decide to sell. Again if anyone has a 52cm Sam to
sell I would pick that up too, doesnt matter what color/brakes/etc.

> > which some of us find a little intimidating. Or maybe it's just me..- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[dougP]

Here's another vote for "talk to the guys at Rivendell". There is
zero pressure, and they ask a lot of questions about you & your
riding, etc., in order to get you onto the best bike for you. This
also makes you really think about what you want and what you're going
to do with the bike.

If anything, Rivendell staff errs on the side of caution in giving
advice, and I can understand that. Most of us have wandered into a
bike (or other retail) shop with only a vague idea of what we want,
and within 5 minutes someone is telling us "this is what you need".
It's refreshing to work with people who want to bring clarity to the
process. And you get to deal with nice people too.

dougP

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

+1. I've worked with 3 different guys on 4 different bike builds at Riv, and they were all stellar and absolutely pressure-free. And all 4 bikes were perfect captures of what I was looking for.

dougP

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[Joe Bernard]

Boy do I wish I hadn't said THAT. Yes, I meant "internal pressure", and I'm probably projecting my own Aspergers-related struggles with phone calls. I shouldn't have mentioned it. Sorry.

[Lisa]

If you really want to go, and have the time, you can make your trip to Harris Cyclery car-free.

Take Amtrak from NYC to Boston' s South Station.  You can take the Acela or the Northeast Regional train.

Then take the commuter rail (Worcester line) from South Station to West Newton station.  Harris Cyclery is less than a block away from the station.  For maps and schedules, see www.mbta.com.

-- Lisa

[islaysteve]

Do you have frequent flyer miles?  This is a lovely time of year to visit the San Francisco Bay Area!  (not quite kidding!)

[Jeff H]

I spent quite a bit of time deciding between models, the original
objective was a single bike to handle my varied style of riding, urban
to exploration.
Lots of research, looking at photos on the internet, 3 trips to RWBHQ,
reading the discussions on line etc. I narrowed it down to Atlantis,
Hillborne or Hunqapillar for
utility .. A H H for beauty.
A few more calls to RWB and I am now in possession of a 54
Hunqapillar. I am more than satisfied with my decision. The Hunq is
now winterized with fenders and Schwalbe Marathon Supremes in an
actual 42 (I believe). When late spring comes around, I will remove
the fenders and go to a larger knobbier off road tire. The Hunq is a
very versatile unit.

The head tube is not too short, I am running 48 Noodle drops with a
100 Dirt drop stem...it will adjust as high as you'd care to go. I
added brake interrupters and of course bar ends ( been using them for
over 40 years) Still messing with pedals, now on my third style in
less than 2 weeks.

If I were to choose just one bike (again), it would still be the
Hunqapillar, it will do it all. Were I doing less off road, I would
get the Atlantis... If I were doing less off road and going to carry
less, I'd get the AHH.
A major advantage of the Hunqapillar, aside from ultimate versatility,
is the lower frame price which allows some funds for the "add-ons"

Many thanks to everyone at Rivendell for their fine advise and service
and many thanks to all who ( unknowingly ) contributed to my decision
via postings on the discussion groups and contribution of images on
the internet.

Best of luck with your decision.... not a bad idea to try to get a
cheap flight to the Bay Area and spend some time at RBWHQ.

[cyclotourist]

GREAT!  The decision makes a lot of sense.  Need pix!

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Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

[William]

+1 on John's assertion that the if there's ever pressure from Riv, it's more likely to tell you what you don't need.  

I like having a bunch of bikes with slightly different 'personalities', and don't mind at all having bikes that overlap a lot in what they are good at.  When I was thinking about getting a Hunqapillar, kind of on a whim, Keven said "Dude, you don't need a Hunqapillar.  Look at the bikes you have, you don't need it."  Holding off on a Hunqa enabled me to get my Hilsen as a dedicated Rando bike, which might be my favorite bike in my life.  I just sold my Hillborne frameset, because I really want an Atlantis.  I went in to Riv HQ to ride the Atlantis, and Vince told me "Dude, you don't need an Atlantis.  You have a Bombadil for touring and trails, and a Hilsen for road rides.  You could S24O on either one."  I probably will still get an Atlantis, but it'll be because I choose to do it, in spite of Riv's correct assertion that I don't really need it.  

[Joe Bernard]

There have been several comments about "pressure" after I restated my original comment, which leads me to believe my clarification did not hold. To reiterate, Rivendell is the mellowest non-pressure phone experience you will ever have with a bike maker/seller.

 

I was referring to my own internal pressure with a direct phone call. I'm not good on the phone, and prefer forums and email for information. By the time I get to the phone, I'm a step closer to seriously considering dropping that credit card on the table. It didn't dawn on me "pressure" would be read as from them. Most certainly not. I hope that's clear.

 

Joe "let me be clear" Bernard

Fairfield, CA.

[René Sterental]

It's very clear Joe. Don't worry about it.

 

René