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Agree. Actually every people falls in love with play after they use it. Java community need such a thing to escape from heavy/slow J2EE and compete with RoR/Pythons.
But, the play2 turns not to be what people expected. Before it release, everyone looking forward it, but in turn, it shocks everyone, or at least Java developers...
Really hope there will be an evolution version of play1-java. Something like integrating good features of play2 such like akka, coffee/less assets compilation, no source code deployment. Maybe a rework of play1 core to put these cool features in, but keep it familiar as what it was...
Moreover, a concern is that, although play team guys say they are still maintain play1.2. But it obviously that it's not as active as before, people stop contributing new modules, new release slow... People hardly see a clear and healthy further of play1....
Currently play status is really confusing/misleading, and in danger... People, especially java developers love play so much! They really want it to be moving forward, as expected.
- It keeps improving everyday. When we started working on Scala it was
really slower than today.
- We are working on it. Especially the guys from the Scala compiler
and SBT are making it faster every release.
Most importantly:
We are building a framework for the future, not for the past. The
choice we make today are importants; if we want to have the best Web
framework in 2 years, ready for real-time Web applications, supporting
many JVM languages, able to scale to ten of thousands of concurrent
users, we have to start now.
Just don't expect us to release in 2012 a Web framework supporting
only Java (and backward compatible with Java 1.4 because you need it),
compatible with the Servlet 2.0 API (to be able to deploy your
applications on your "enterprise servlet" container), allowing only an
old school blocking model (allowing only basic CRUD and "dynamic" web
application of the 200x) and integrating natively with Spring (because
this is the new cool thing that will kill J2EE for sure).
If you are not an early adopter, or you have another focus now, I can
understand it. No one force you to use this new version released only
2 weeks ago. Just keep using the previous Play version, waiting for
the brand new one to become more mature.
> We have to be up to date in case 1.x is not supported anymore and still has bugs
So Play 2.0 is not the version after Play 1.2.4. If you have a bug in
1.2.4 it will be fixed in 1.2.5, not in 2.0. This is a completely
different code base.
If you are worried about support for Play 1.x, you have 2 choices:
- Ask for professional services.
- Involve yourself in the community, help the developer team (that are
volunteer community members, not paid for their work) to keep fixing
issues (instead of doing noise), and at one point, ask to join the
developer team.
We are doing Play 2.0 because today our clients ask us for a new kind
of modern, real-time, social, highly-distributed, mobile, web
application, like:
http://console-demo.typesafe.com/de...@typesafe.com/apps
You can try as hard as you can, you can't do this with Play 1.x of
with the Servlet API.
So we need anew tool for this. If it's not your case (yet), then you
don't have to use Play 2.0 (yet). But be sure that the Web evolving,
and that we enter in a new era of Web applications.
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 1:43 PM, tschundeee <b.ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1 I also thought about writing such a thread... Revive Play 1 and give it the attention it deserves. Play 2 is not what a Play 2 should be...
>
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Guillaume Bort
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I am not clear how many are working on that team (but certainly thank you Nicholas and Morten!). Do you guys need help? https://play.lighthouseapp.com/projects/57987/milestones/131471-125 The best thing people can do is support the parts of the project they love
Just don't expect us to release in 2012 a Web framework supporting
only Java (and backward compatible with Java 1.4 because you need it),
compatible with the Servlet 2.0 API (to be able to deploy your
applications on your "enterprise servlet" container), allowing only an
old school blocking model (allowing only basic CRUD and "dynamic" web
application of the 200x) and integrating natively with Spring (because
this is the new cool thing that will kill J2EE for sure).
with the Servlet API.
Sorry I don't talk about request/seconds here, or even about raw
performance. I talk about to be able to keep 10.000 connections opened
during 20 minutes, streaming data in real time. And without consuming
10.000 threads on the JVM. The whole point of the new Play 2.0
architecture is to be able to allow that.
> Play 2 allows better UI ? (the dynamic web interface 200x point) : I don't
> get how this is relevant to a server side framework.
Again I don't argue that Play allows for better UI. But that a new
kind of Web application (with Streams, WebSocket, Real-time
notification, etc.) are this new kind of Web applications.
> Play 2 should be rebranded
I know, Java itself is backward compatible, even if they rebranded
Java 1.5, 1.6, 1.7, to Java 5, Java 6, etc to let people think that
there are major versions of Java.
But for me a major version is a major version. Each project manages it
versioning its own way. We chosen this versioning (Calling Play 2 the
next generation of the Play framework) like for example Symfony 2
(which is the next generation of the Symfony Web framework not
backward compatible with Symfony 1), and not like Grails 2 (which is
just Grails 1 plus new features, so of course, backward compatible).
--
Guillaume Bort
> Play scales better - Play barely scales better than grails 2 in bench testsSorry I don't talk about request/seconds here, or even about raw
> (for instance, dummy rendering test - 12k r/s for play2 vs 11k req/s for
> grails2)
performance. I talk about to be able to keep 10.000 connections opened
during 20 minutes, streaming data in real time. And without consuming
10.000 threads on the JVM. The whole point of the new Play 2.0
architecture is to be able to allow that.
Again I don't argue that Play allows for better UI. But that a new
> Play 2 allows better UI ? (the dynamic web interface 200x point) : I don't
> get how this is relevant to a server side framework.
kind of Web application (with Streams, WebSocket, Real-time
notification, etc.) are this new kind of Web applications.
I know, Java itself is backward compatible, even if they rebranded
> Play 2 should be rebranded
Java 1.5, 1.6, 1.7, to Java 5, Java 6, etc to let people think that
there are major versions of Java.
But for me a major version is a major version. Each project manages it
versioning its own way. We chosen this versioning (Calling Play 2 the
next generation of the Play framework) like for example Symfony 2
(which is the next generation of the Symfony Web framework not
backward compatible with Symfony 1), and not like Grails 2 (which is
just Grails 1 plus new features, so of course, backward compatible).
30 марта 2012 г. 17:40 пользователь Guillaume Bort
<guillau...@gmail.com> написал:
- One big lie
- "The Play framework makes it easier to build web applications with Java & Scala."
- The truth would be: "The Play framework makes it easier to build web applications with Scala, but if you want to use Java.... then, well ok May The Force be with you!"
I'll speak about that later.
- Scala
- I am a Java developer. Why must I study Scala to make an elementary template? That is just a template! A means of formating an information output. That is fantastic that it can be compiled. But what do I need it for? If I spend a great deal of time on elaboration, especially on waiting.
- To fulfill the simpliest things I have to adress Google groups because there is no information.
I cannot set a variable in the template to use it later in the cycle.- What for do I need this sort of template engine that I have to “overcome”:
[error] /home/romka/projects/ponominalu/target/scala-2.9.1/src_managed/main/views/html/event.template.scala:156: '(' expected but ')' found.[error] """),_display_(Seq(/*123.14*/for)),format.raw/*123.17*/(""" ((sector,i) <-subevent.sectors.zipWithIndex) """),format.raw("""{"""),format.raw/*123.64*/("""[error] ^[error] /home/romka/projects/ponominalu/target/scala-2.9.1/src_managed/main/views/html/event.template.scala:421: illegal start of simple expression[error] """)))})),format.raw/*388.2*/("""[error] ^[error] two errors found
- Eh? Where should I look for a mistake in this output? Please don't say that in line 156...
How THIS can help me to find out what has happened? And it was just an extra space character.
Porting- That is great that you believe that Scala is the thing of the future ( while I doubt that with this compilation speed you mean the nearest future, but ok). Do add but don't substitute! You consider Ebean better than Hibernate – leave the choice to the ones who are used to it!
- Try opening a restaurant in Japan. Substitute sticks with forks ( because there exists a wide-spread opinion that forks are more progressive than sticks) and look if it works out.
Backward compatibility always was a basis of Java, that is why it was developing slowly, though there were no problems with launching old projects in new versions.
You have removed war creating – how should I deploy it on tomcat.
You have added processing of text output through org.apache.commons.lang.StringEscapeUtils.escapeHtml(text). Oh, that is nice! But it crumples all the text turning it into Сыновья
to turn it off I have to edit Templates.scala and somehow recompile (taking into account that I have no idea how it should be done manually). After a Play framewok version update – I will have to do it again.
- Conclusion
Now Play is a pain in the neck ! If in the beginning it was a very simple and very fast framework, now it has become just one of many.
You will probably attract Scala fans, but you will lose Java developers, because it is just impossible to avoid working with Scala while creating a product on Play.
Maybe Scala is not that bad, but I am a Java developer and can study another language only when I have time. But now I must do what I am to do, by the use of the means I know, and the knowledge of which was announced by framework developers.
- P.P.P.S If this idea of Scala belongs to the man who has made the website acid green than it is him who is the root of evil!) Get rid of him!)
- Dear friends!
One small truth
Scala sucks. Well, the language might be considered quite good but the fact that compilation really takes a lot of time is indisputable.
- Up to 13sec! And that's after slight changes made to the template (!)
Having allocated myself a separate server especially for compilation, I managed to increase the speed to 5 sec – butstill it remains a lot. We've tried it on different platforms.
- One big lie
- "The Play framework makes it easier to build web applications with Java & Scala."
- The truth would be: "The Play framework makes it easier to build web applications with Scala, but if you want to use Java.... then, well ok May The Force be with you!"
I'll speak about that later.
- My story
When I read about Play framework for the first time, I entered the website and watched the video about the 1.x. version. Oh my God! This is it! - I thought. I've installed it, repeated everything according to the example on the video,and quickly applying documentation I outlined a copy of the project that I'm working on.
A whole month I tried to convince my boss of using Play Framework in new projects, because it was much better than what we were using. And I did it. But you have played a trick – changed everything radically.
Now when we are realising a new project using Play framework 2, my colleagues give be black looks, but I can't make any excuses– explain that it is not what it used to be, that I cannot help them when I don't know the way it works.
Quick elaboration
What I liked in Play 1.x was the speed. Not the work speed (now everybody has it up-to-date), but the elaboration speed. Everything is quick and simple. In the 2.0 it's a torture.
Resistance to the current circumstances, efforts to find the way of doing what used to be done easily and in several modes.
- Scala
- I am a Java developer. Why must I study Scala to make an elementary template? That is just a template! A means of formating an information output. That is fantastic that
- it can be compiled. But what do I need it for? If I spend a great deal of time on elaboration, especially on waiting.
- Maybe in America you compile Scala code, but here in Russia Scala code compile you.
- It hurts!
To fulfill the simpliest things I have to adress Google groups because there is no information.
I cannot set a variable in the template to use
- it later in the cycle.
- What for do I need this sort of template engine that I have to “overcome”:
[error] /home/romka/projects/ponominalu/target/scala-2.9.1/src_managed/main/views/html/event.template.scala:156: '(' expected but ')' found.[error] """),_display_(Seq(/*123.14*/for)),format.raw/*123.17*/(""" ((sector,i) <-subevent.sectors.zipWithIndex) """),format.raw("""{"""),format.raw/*123.64*/("""[error] ^[error] /home/romka/projects/ponominalu/target/scala-2.9.1/src_managed/main/views/html/event.template.scala:421: illegal start of simple expression[error] """)))})),format.raw/*388.2*/("""[error] ^[error] two errors found
- Eh? Where should I look for a mistake in this output? Please don't say that in line 156...
How THIS can help me to find out what has happened? And it was just an extra space character.
- What about data transfer to the template?
Before I could transfer all the data to the template by use of @Before, for example menu that I have on every page. '
- Now I have to transfer menu data in every template call, and in each of them I should pass it through the base one. That's nonsense!
- Porting
- That is great that you believe that Scala is the thing of the future ( while I doubt that with this compilation speed you mean the nearest future, but ok). Do add but don't substitute! You consider Ebean better than Hibernate – leave the choice to the ones who are used to it!
- Try opening a restaurant in Japan. Substitute sticks with forks ( because there exists a wide-spread opinion that forks are more progressive than sticks) and look if it works out.
B
- ackward compatibility always was a basis of Java, that is why it was developing slowly, though there were no problems with launching old projects in new versions.
You have removed war creating – how should I deploy it on tomcat.
You have added
- processing of text output through org.apache.commons.lang.StringEscapeUtils.escapeHtml(text). Oh, that is nice! But it crumples all the text turning it into Сыновья
- to turn it off I have to edit Templates.scala and somehow recompile (taking into account that I have no idea how it should be done manually). After a Play framewok version update – I will have to do it again.
- Conclusion
Now Play is a pain in the neck ! If in the beginning it was a very simple and very fast framework, now it has become just one of many.
You will probably attract Scala fans, but you will lose Java developers, because it is just impossible to avoid working with Scala while creating a product on Play.
Maybe Scala is not that bad, but I am a Java developer and can study another language only when I have time. But now I must do what I am to do, by the use of the means I know, and the knowledge of which was announced by framework developers.
p.s. Remember Apple's goal which is “to create simple objects”. The user was deprived of everything unnecessary. It is true that he was bereft of some frills, but as it turned out to be a golden mean. Moreover he still can do everything he wants but at the same time an ordinary user is not distracted with all that additional stuff.
- p.p.s. Return ok (…) are you serious? If I'm ready to return something to the user it is already ok! Otherwise I throw exception.
- P.P.P.S If this idea of Scala belongs to the man who has made the website acid green than it is him who is the root of evil!) Get rid of him!)
- Dear friends!
One small truth
Scala sucks. Well, the language might be considered quite good but the fact that compilation really takes a lot of time is indisputable.
- Up to 13sec! And that's after slight changes made to the template (!)
Having allocated myself a separate server especially for compilation, I managed to increase the speed to 5 sec – butstill it remains a lot. We've tried it on different platforms.
- One big lie
- "The Play framework makes it easier to build web applications with Java & Scala."
- The truth would be: "The Play framework makes it easier to build web applications with Scala, but if you want to use Java.... then, well ok May The Force be with you!"
I'll speak about that later.
- My story
When I read about Play framework for the first time, I entered the website and watched the video about the 1.x. version. Oh my God! This is it! - I thought. I've installed it, repeated everything according to the example on the video,and quickly applying documentation I outlined a copy of the project that I'm working on.
A whole month I tried to convince my boss of using Play Framework in new projects, because it was much better than what we were using. And I did it. But you have played a trick – changed everything radically.
Now when we are realising a new project using Play framework 2, my colleagues give be black looks, but I can't make any excuses– explain that it is not what it used to be, that I cannot help them when I don't know the way it works.
Quick elaboration
What I liked in Play 1.x was the speed. Not the work speed (now everybody has it up-to-date), but the elaboration speed. Everything is quick and simple. In the 2.0 it's a torture.
Resistance to the current circumstances, efforts to find the way of doing what used to be done easily and in several modes.
- Scala
- I am a Java developer. Why must I study Scala to make an elementary template? That is just a template! A means of formating an information output. That is fantastic that
- it can be compiled. But what do I need it for? If I spend a great deal of time on elaboration, especially on waiting.
- Maybe in America you compile Scala code, but here in Russia Scala code compile you.
- It hurts!
To fulfill the simpliest things I have to adress Google groups because there is no information.
I cannot set a variable in the template to use
- it later in the cycle.
- What for do I need this sort of template engine that I have to “overcome”:
[error] /home/romka/projects/ponominalu/target/scala-2.9.1/src_managed/main/views/html/event.template.scala:156: '(' expected but ')' found.[error] """),_display_(Seq(/*123.14*/for)),format.raw/*123.17*/(""" ((sector,i) <-subevent.sectors.zipWithIndex) """),format.raw("""{"""),format.raw/*123.64*/("""[error] ^[error] /home/romka/projects/ponominalu/target/scala-2.9.1/src_managed/main/views/html/event.template.scala:421: illegal start of simple expression[error] """)))})),format.raw/*388.2*/("""[error] ^[error] two errors found
- Eh? Where should I look for a mistake in this output? Please don't say that in line 156...
How THIS can help me to find out what has happened? And it was just an extra space character.
- What about data transfer to the template?
Before I could transfer all the data to the template by use of @Before, for example menu that I have on every page. '
- Now I have to transfer menu data in every template call, and in each of them I should pass it through the base one. That's nonsense!
- Porting
- That is great that you believe that Scala is the thing of the future ( while I doubt that with this compilation speed you mean the nearest future, but ok). Do add but don't substitute! You consider Ebean better than Hibernate – leave the choice to the ones who are used to it!
- Try opening a restaurant in Japan. Substitute sticks with forks ( because there exists a wide-spread opinion that forks are more progressive than sticks) and look if it works out.
B
- ackward compatibility always was a basis of Java, that is why it was developing slowly, though there were no problems with launching old projects in new versions.
You have removed war creating – how should I deploy it on tomcat.
You have added
- processing of text output through org.apache.commons.lang.StringEscapeUtils.escapeHtml(text). Oh, that is nice! But it crumples all the text turning it into Сыновья
- to turn it off I have to edit Templates.scala and somehow recompile (taking into account that I have no idea how it should be done manually). After a Play framewok version update – I will have to do it again.
- Conclusion
Now Play is a pain in the neck ! If in the beginning it was a very simple and very fast framework, now it has become just one of many.
You will probably attract Scala fans, but you will lose Java developers, because it is just impossible to avoid working with Scala while creating a product on Play.
Maybe Scala is not that bad, but I am a Java developer and can study another language only when I have time. But now I must do what I am to do, by the use of the means I know, and the knowledge of which was announced by framework developers.
p.s. Remember Apple's goal which is “to create simple objects”. The user was deprived of everything unnecessary. It is true that he was bereft of some frills, but as it turned out to be a golden mean. Moreover he still can do everything he wants but at the same time an ordinary user is not distracted with all that additional stuff.
- p.p.s. Return ok (…) are you serious? If I'm ready to return something to the user it is already ok! Otherwise I throw exception.
You sacrifice type safety and runtime speed for development speed. I'd choose the first combo any day.
That said: compilation speed will only get better (there are many things happening in this area)
For our latest project, we were trying to use Play 2.0.
But after playing around with, we had to give up and decided to use
Flask framework. Slow compilation, Obscure error reporting, Learning
SBT (Its really bad), Difficulty in getting Scala resources all gave
us hard time.
Java is not a bad language after-all. It is here to stay, Oracle even
laid out plan for even Java 10 (2017).
It is much simpler to get
things done than Scala. Scala is difficult and those ASCII arts makes
people run away. One should not *fight" with a language to get
something done, they have much bigger/difficult problem to solve.
On Friday, March 30, 2012 4:56:25 PM UTC+2, peter hausel wrote:You sacrifice type safety and runtime speed for development speed. I'd choose the first combo any day.A lot of people feel different about that. Unless tested, compiled does not add much benefit besides proving correct use of syntax. You still have to test whether it does the right thing. This continuous process of validation is harmed by the lack of development speed. The success of product engineering is based on a free flow of ideas which requires very short feedback cycles.
Not having that will harm a typical project much much more than a lack of performance, which it wont need most of the time as not everything operates at web-scale.
If a feedback-loop of 10 second recompile cycles were acceptable for me (lots of others also), I d still work with Servlet-based frameworks.
That said: compilation speed will only get better (there are many things happening in this area)Really? I have heard that for many years now and it still has to materialize.
How? It goes from the box with only scala templates support. It's nice
to now how to install groovy (without any knowlege of scala)
> To summarize:
> 1) you do not need to learn or use scala if you do not want to.
For now - I can't. If you can explain me how to do this - it would be
great. Or better - add some scala-free stuff (like Groovy) to future
issues
> 2) The templating solution is optional. The amount of specific knowledge you
> need to acquire is about the same as with groovy or haml or dust or mustache
> etc.
It's not. There is everything is simple. For example to make counter
in loop takes >1 hour for me ..
> 3) There are fewer assumptions in Play 2 about your stack and you can just
> stop using API-s if you do not need/like some
I do not criticize. I'm just pointing at what you probably you can't see.
You started making a motorcycle, and then you made a car. Yes, it has
a roof and a stove, but we fell in love with Play because we wanted a
fast and easy ride instead of comfort traffic-time spending.
> * more type safety (routes and template compilation)
> * async goodies (akka, websockets, streaming, comet etc.)
it's really good!! But not enough documentation and examples for Java
>> P.P.P.S If this idea of Scala belongs to the man who has made the website
>> acid green than it is him who is the root of evil!) Get rid of him!)
>
> You are entitled to your opinions but please keep the discussion on topic
> and constructive. (Insulting people won't take you anywhere)
It was a joke to defuse the tension.
Play 2 > Play 1 is not true. Play 2 <> Play 1 is. 1 and 2 are just different.There are a lot of developers out there in the community who have invested largely in Play 1 and would like to keep on that branch and hope continued development on it.
> I am not sure what you are referring here. You do not need to write a single line of scala if you do not want to.How? It goes from the box with only scala templates support. It's nice
to now how to install groovy (without any knowlege of scala)
> To summarize:
> 1) you do not need to learn or use scala if you do not want to.For now - I can't. If you can explain me how to do this - it would be
great. Or better - add some scala-free stuff (like Groovy) to future
issues
> 2) The templating solution is optional. The amount of specific knowledge you
> need to acquire is about the same as with groovy or haml or dust or mustache
> etc.It's not. There is everything is simple. For example to make counter
in loop takes >1 hour for me ..
> 3) There are fewer assumptions in Play 2 about your stack and you can just
> stop using API-s if you do not need/like someI do not criticize. I'm just pointing at what you probably you can't see.
You started making a motorcycle, and then you made a car. Yes, it has
a roof and a stove, but we fell in love with Play because we wanted a
fast and easy ride instead of comfort traffic-time spending.> * more type safety (routes and template compilation)
> * async goodies (akka, websockets, streaming, comet etc.)it's really good!! But not enough documentation and examples for Java
>> P.P.P.S If this idea of Scala belongs to the man who has made the website
>> acid green than it is him who is the root of evil!) Get rid of him!)
>
> You are entitled to your opinions but please keep the discussion on topic
> and constructive. (Insulting people won't take you anywhere)It was a joke to defuse the tension.
I can stick with Play 1.x.x but as you said, you are not backed by a big company and nothing can guarantee that this will be maintained as efficiently as the Scala stack version. This is already not the case.Play 1.x.x made me create my little self-enterprise and find clients easily with short delays promises and easy maintenance. Play 2.0 made me ... evaluate Stripes, Wicket, JSF2 and a guitarist career too.
> Play 1 is entirely community driven. If you care about the project, then please participate! It's open source after all.
I agree, and it is my full intent, but you see, there are different levels of participation to a community driven project. One of them being a paid customer of the company who is the lead of that community driven project (I've actually pointed this out in my original reply).
But in order to be able to do that, I believe it is perfectly reasonable to expect a Play 1.x branch roadmap. Play 1.x currently looks like the predecessor of Play 2 rather than a branch on its own, and feels like it may soon be the "old" thing. Why would I invest in that if Zenexity is already diverging most of its development assets towards the 2.x branch?
But again in my original reply, I've referred to an option for Zenexity to clearly redefining the community structure for Play 1.x. In such a case, it will truly become a community project. Currently it feels more like an open sourced project rather than one that is embraced by the community. (Yes it is embraced as usage, but does not seemly like it in the development area, other than few contributers) If I missed something with this regard, please let me (and everybody else) know.
Thanks & regards,
Serkan
This is great news. Were this to happen, I'd have no doubt all issues covered in this topic should come to resolution. I for one am a fan of Canonical's open source strategy on Ubuntu and its derivatives.
They develop and maintain Ubuntu releases while allowing independently branched and vetted community driven derivatives, and promote/support them. What I especially adore is the 6-month release cycle and 1-year turnaround 5-year long term support strategy. The whole development and release plan is known and transparent at any given time. This assures customers to have no second thought in actually purchasing support contracts and revenue for making progress both as a company and community project lead.
In short, what I'd suggest would be:
* Play 2: zenexity/typesafe owned and managed open source project
* Play 1: An open source project that is "executed" by the community (yet still owned, "planned" and supported by zenexity (note the lack of typesafe))
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On Mar 30, 8:18 am, Guillaume Bort <guillaume.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We are building a framework for the future, not for the past. The
> choice we make today are importants; if we want to have the best Web
> framework in 2 years, ready for real-time Web applications, supporting
> many JVM languages, able to scale to ten of thousands of concurrent
> users, we have to start now.
>
> Just don't expect us to release in 2012 a Web framework supporting
> only Java (and backward compatible with Java 1.4 because you need it),
> compatible with the Servlet 2.0 API (to be able to deploy your
> applications on your "enterprise servlet" container), allowing only an
> old school blocking model (allowing only basic CRUD and "dynamic" web
> application of the 200x) and integrating natively with Spring (because
> this is the new cool thing that will kill J2EE for sure).
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying:
> compatible with the Servlet 2.0 API
Play 1 already has the option to deploy without servlet, so Play 2
doesn't really add anything here, does it?
> allowing only an old school blocking model
Play 1 supports async mode and continuations. So how is Play 2 any
better here?
> ready for real-time Web applications... able to scale to ten of thousands of concurrent users
Play 1 already supports real time web, websocket, and scale to tens of
thousands of concurrent users, no? So again how is Play 2 any better
here?
2012/3/31 Ben McCann <benjamin...@gmail.com>
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I have repeated many of the points of the original thread on this Google Group so I won't do so again.However, I keep coming back to one important point that several people in this thread have echoed: why is it called "Play 2.0" and not something entirely different? The fact of the matter is that when people want to check out an open-source framework, they are going to go with the latest version most of the time. Most people expect the the latest version to have more features, better support, more bug fixes, etc., etc. Why start with something that is already "old".
A new user is not going to understand that Play 2.0 is actually, in fact, a very different beast from Play 1.x. Unbeknownst to these individuals, they may never know that Play 1.x may be exactly what they have looking for. Instead, they will download Play 2.0 and may be completely put off.Also, can anyone elaborate on the "business decisions" behind using Scala in Play 2.0? Does this have to do with Typesafe?
What if you use client-side templating, Japid, or Groovy templates? Does this improve the compilation times? I would imagine it should as it would remove nearly all the Scala compilation. If it does not, then let's figure out why and make it work. It would seem that any of these solutions should be made able to compile quickly.
For one thing Play 1 requires the "play runtime" on the target machine (big difference)
I have made Japid to take <150 ms to fully reload a changed view consistently with Play2, measured end-to-end with Chrome's built-in network monitoring tool. Sure, the view does not do any db queries.
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That said, both codebases represent different trade-offs and t's dangerous to think in "play X is better than play Y" paradigm.Evaluate your own needs and make a decision that will work the best for you and your team.If people ask me which version they should use, I always ask about their project first.just my 2c.
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30 Mar 2012 22:27 tarihinde "Serkan Durusoy [DNA | encoding the future]" <serkan....@dna-tr.com> yazdı:
We can see that zenexity has not enough energy and motivation to support Play 1.x even without typesafe. I think a new organization should be constructed for our far best Java web framework. Zenexity should go on only as a contributor to the project.
>
>
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I'm liking Scala but I'm all for the Java side having Java templates and Java routes, and the Scala side having Scala templates and Scala routes(like it is now). It only makes sense.
just a minor point but play2's router is just an external DSL.
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Drew, thanks for the Rhythm link. I like it very much since it's syntax is so similar to the Scala templates. If it ever becomes available for Play 2 then it'd be very easy to convert my existing app to use it. I'd be very interested to know if that happens.just a minor point but play2's router is just an external DSL.True, but I believe it's then compiled to Scala and then compiled to bytecode, unless I'm mistaken, and this last step is very time consuming.
Hopefully the play 2.0 integration with sbt will make it a bit faster.
If not, well, I'll keep on having a really clean desk. :P
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(remember how long it took to rebuild a project and redeploy in a servlet container? yup)
My closing remark is that play 2.0 came out like 3 weeks ago. It's a young technology(hello early adapters!) and instead of folks jumping to conclusions, how about making it better together? See a performance issue? Please put together a ticket in lighthouse. See a way how to make things faster? We would certainly like to hear about it, so please bring it up on the mailing list etc. etc.
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(remember how long it took to rebuild a project and redeploy in a servlet container? yup)Yes, that experience from many years ago is awful and much worse. My point of comparison is the one I came from of running Jetty in embedded mode with pure Java. There are no redeploys and a page refresh is instantaneous as compared to multiple seconds. 2-3 seconds I can generally live with. However there are some changes which rigger larger recompilations and take much longer.
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OK, this is really the last one:-) I am sorry but you are comparing apples to oranges here. Changing a java class in play 2.0 is instantaneous (certainly sub second on my box). We talked about routes (which by the way are not compiler checked in most frameworks to begin with) or (compiled) template hot reload, outside of play. As for larger recompilations, please report issues like this in lighthouse. Thanks!
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I admit that currently the Scala compilation speed is slow. We are
aware of that, but:- It keeps improving everyday. When we started working on Scala it was
really slower than today.
- We are working on it. Especially the guys from the Scala compiler
and SBT are making it faster every release.Most importantly:
We are building a framework for the future, not for the past. The
choice we make today are importants; if we want to have the best Web
framework in 2 years, ready for real-time Web applications, supporting
many JVM languages, able to scale to ten of thousands of concurrent
users, we have to start now.Just don't expect us to release in 2012 a Web framework supporting
only Java (and backward compatible with Java 1.4 because you need it),
compatible with the Servlet 2.0 API (to be able to deploy your
applications on your "enterprise servlet" container), allowing only an
old school blocking model (allowing only basic CRUD and "dynamic" web
application of the 200x) and integrating natively with Spring (because
this is the new cool thing that will kill J2EE for sure).If you are not an early adopter, or you have another focus now, I can
understand it. No one force you to use this new version released only
2 weeks ago. Just keep using the previous Play version, waiting for
the brand new one to become more mature.> We have to be up to date in case 1.x is not supported anymore and still has bugs
So Play 2.0 is not the version after Play 1.2.4. If you have a bug in
1.2.4 it will be fixed in 1.2.5, not in 2.0. This is a completely
different code base.If you are worried about support for Play 1.x, you have 2 choices:
- Ask for professional services.
- Involve yourself in the community, help the developer team (that are
volunteer community members, not paid for their work) to keep fixing
issues (instead of doing noise), and at one point, ask to join the
developer team.We are doing Play 2.0 because today our clients ask us for a new kind
of modern, real-time, social, highly-distributed, mobile, web
application, like:http://console-demo.typesafe.com/de...@typesafe.com/apps
You can try as hard as you can, you can't do this with Play 1.x of
with the Servlet API.So we need anew tool for this. If it's not your case (yet), then you
don't have to use Play 2.0 (yet). But be sure that the Web evolving,
and that we enter in a new era of Web applications.
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 1:43 PM, tschundeee <b.ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1 I also thought about writing such a thread... Revive Play 1 and give it the attention it deserves. Play 2 is not what a Play 2 should be...
>
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We've been using Play for a few years now and we've been pretty happy with the 1.x releases, but for our most recent project we chose to go with Play 2/Scala even though we had already spent a good 3 months developing using Play 1/Java. That meant pretty much rewriting everything from scratch, but looking at the long term gains and the state where the project is now, I'd say it was well worth it. We use a lot of "modern" web features, so Play 2 is just a great fit.
As everyone already mentioned, Scala compilation is slow, but we were able to get around that by splitting up our app into many different modules and using "publish-local" to publish it into Play's repository. That way you're not compiling the whole project every time so compile times are much more bearable. Steve Chaloner has two nice posts on how to do this.
http://www.objectify.be/wordpress/?p=363
http://www.objectify.be/wordpress/?p=374
In the end for us the extra compile time is a small price to pay for the great type safety we get with Play/Scala. Gone are the days that the templates would break because of the controller/model/etc changes. Now everything gets compiled and you see the errors immediately.
Overall we are very thankful of the Play developers and all their efforts.
cheers,
Drew
- Dear friends!
One small truth
Scala sucks. Well, the language might be considered quite good but the fact that compilation really takes a lot of time is indisputable.- Up to 13sec! And that's after slight changes made to the template (!)
Having allocated myself a separate server especially for compilation, I managed to increase the speed to 5 sec – butstill it remains a lot. We've tried it on different platforms.
One big lie
- "The Play framework makes it easier to build web applications with Java & Scala."
- The truth would be: "The Play framework makes it easier to build web applications with Scala, but if you want to use Java.... then, well ok May The Force be with you!"
I'll speak about that later.
- My story
When I read about Play framework for the first time, I entered the website and watched the video about the 1.x. version. Oh my God! This is it! - I thought. I've installed it, repeated everything according to the example on the video,and quickly applying documentation I outlined a copy of the project that I'm working on.
A whole month I tried to convince my boss of using Play Framework in new projects, because it was much better than what we were using. And I did it. But you have played a trick – changed everything radically.
Now when we are realising a new project using Play framework 2, my colleagues give be black looks, but I can't make any excuses– explain that it is not what it used to be, that I cannot help them when I don't know the way it works.
Quick elaboration
What I liked in Play 1.x was the speed. Not the work speed (now everybody has it up-to-date), but the elaboration speed. Everything is quick and simple. In the 2.0 it's a torture.
Resistance to the current circumstances, efforts to find the way of doing what used to be done easily and in several modes.
- Scala
- I am a Java developer. Why must I study Scala to make an elementary template? That is just a template! A means of formating an information output. That is fantastic that
- it can be compiled. But what do I need it for? If I spend a great deal of time on elaboration, especially on waiting.
Maybe in America you compile Scala code, but here in Russia Scala code compile you.- It hurts!
To fulfill the simpliest things I have to adress Google groups because there is no information.
I cannot set a variable in the template to use it later in the cycle.- What for do I need this sort of template engine that I have to “overcome”:
[error] /home/romka/projects/ponominalu/target/scala-2.9.1/src_managed/main/views/html/event.template.scala:156: '(' expected but ')' found.[error] """),_display_(Seq(/*123.14*/for)),format.raw/*123.17*/(""" ((sector,i) <-subevent.sectors.zipWithIndex) """),format.raw("""{"""),format.raw/*123.64*/("""[error] ^[error] /home/romka/projects/ponominalu/target/scala-2.9.1/src_managed/main/views/html/event.template.scala:421: illegal start of simple expression[error] """)))})),format.raw/*388.2*/("""[error] ^[error] two errors found
- Eh? Where should I look for a mistake in this output? Please don't say that in line 156...
How THIS can help me to find out what has happened? And it was just an extra space character.
- What about data transfer to the template?
Before I could transfer all the data to the template by use of @Before, for example menu that I have on every page. '- Now I have to transfer menu data in every template call, and in each of them I should pass it through the base one. That's nonsense!
Porting
- That is great that you believe that Scala is the thing of the future ( while I doubt that with this compilation speed you mean the nearest future, but ok). Do add but don't substitute! You consider Ebean better than Hibernate – leave the choice to the ones who are used to it!
- Try opening a restaurant in Japan. Substitute sticks with forks ( because there exists a wide-spread opinion that forks are more progressive than sticks) and look if it works out.
B
- ackward compatibility always was a basis of Java, that is why it was developing slowly, though there were no problems with launching old projects in new versions.
You have removed war creating – how should I deploy it on tomcat.
You have added
- processing of text output through org.apache.commons.lang.StringEscapeUtils.escapeHtml(text). Oh, that is nice! But it crumples all the text turning it into Сыновья
- to turn it off I have to edit Templates.scala and somehow recompile (taking into account that I have no idea how it should be done manually). After a Play framewok version update – I will have to do it again.
- Conclusion
Now Play is a pain in the neck ! If in the beginning it was a very simple and very fast framework, now it has become just one of many.
You will probably attract Scala fans, but you will lose Java developers, because it is just impossible to avoid working with Scala while creating a product on Play.
Maybe Scala is not that bad, but I am a Java developer and can study another language only when I have time. But now I must do what I am to do, by the use of the means I know, and the knowledge of which was announced by framework developers.
p.s. Remember Apple's goal which is “to create simple objects”. The user was deprived of everything unnecessary. It is true that he was bereft of some frills, but as it turned out to be a golden mean. Moreover he still can do everything he wants but at the same time an ordinary user is not distracted with all that additional stuff.
p.p.s. Return ok (…) are you serious? If I'm ready to return something to the user it is already ok! Otherwise I throw exception.
- P.P.P.S If this idea of Scala belongs to the man who has made the website acid green than it is him who is the root of evil!) Get rid of him!)
- Dear friends!
One small truth
Scala sucks. Well, the language might be considered quite good but the fact that compilation really takes a lot of time is indisputable.- Up to 13sec! And that's after slight changes made to the template (!)
Having allocated myself a separate server especially for compilation, I managed to increase the speed to 5 sec – butstill it remains a lot. We've tried it on different platforms.
One big lie
- "The Play framework makes it easier to build web applications with Java & Scala."
- The truth would be: "The Play framework makes it easier to build web applications with Scala, but if you want to use Java.... then, well ok May The Force be with you!"
I'll speak about that later.
- My story
When I read about Play framework for the first time, I entered the website and watched the video about the 1.x. version. Oh my God! This is it! - I thought. I've installed it, repeated everything according to the example on the video,and quickly applying documentation I outlined a copy of the project that I'm working on.
A whole month I tried to convince my boss of using Play Framework in new projects, because it was much better than what we were using. And I did it. But you have played a trick – changed everything radically.
Now when we are realising a new project using Play framework 2, my colleagues give be black looks, but I can't make any excuses– explain that it is not what it used to be, that I cannot help them when I don't know the way it works.
Quick elaboration
What I liked in Play 1.x was the speed. Not the work speed (now everybody has it up-to-date), but the elaboration speed. Everything is quick and simple. In the 2.0 it's a torture.
Resistance to the current circumstances, efforts to find the way of doing what used to be done easily and in several modes.
- Scala
- I am a Java developer. Why must I study Scala to make an elementary template? That is just a template! A means of formating an information output. That is fantastic that
- it can be compiled. But what do I need it for? If I spend a great deal of time on elaboration, especially on waiting.
Maybe in America you compile Scala code, but here in Russia Scala code compile you.- It hurts!
To fulfill the simpliest things I have to adress Google groups because there is no information.
I cannot set a variable in the template to use it later in the cycle.- What for do I need this sort of template engine that I have to “overcome”:
[error] /home/romka/projects/ponominalu/target/scala-2.9.1/src_managed/main/views/html/event.template.scala:156: '(' expected but ')' found.[error] """),_display_(Seq(/*123.14*/for)),format.raw/*123.17*/(""" ((sector,i) <-subevent.sectors.zipWithIndex) """),format.raw("""{"""),format.raw/*123.64*/("""[error] ^[error] /home/romka/projects/ponominalu/target/scala-2.9.1/src_managed/main/views/html/event.template.scala:421: illegal start of simple expression[error] """)))})),format.raw/*388.2*/("""[error] ^[error] two errors found
- Eh? Where should I look for a mistake in this output? Please don't say that in line 156...
How THIS can help me to find out what has happened? And it was just an extra space character.
- What about data transfer to the template?
Before I could transfer all the data to the template by use of @Before, for example menu that I have on every page. '- Now I have to transfer menu data in every template call, and in each of them I should pass it through the base one. That's nonsense!
Porting
- That is great that you believe that Scala is the thing of the future ( while I doubt that with this compilation speed you mean the nearest future, but ok). Do add but don't substitute! You consider Ebean better than Hibernate – leave the choice to the ones who are used to it!
- Try opening a restaurant in Japan. Substitute sticks with forks ( because there exists a wide-spread opinion that forks are more progressive than sticks) and look if it works out.
B
- ackward compatibility always was a basis of Java, that is why it was developing slowly, though there were no problems with launching old projects in new versions.
You have removed war creating – how should I deploy it on tomcat.
You have added
- processing of text output through org.apache.commons.lang.StringEscapeUtils.escapeHtml(text). Oh, that is nice! But it crumples all the text turning it into Сыновья
- to turn it off I have to edit Templates.scala and somehow recompile (taking into account that I have no idea how it should be done manually). After a Play framewok version update – I will have to do it again.
- Conclusion
Now Play is a pain in the neck ! If in the beginning it was a very simple and very fast framework, now it has become just one of many.
You will probably attract Scala fans, but you will lose Java developers, because it is just impossible to avoid working with Scala while creating a product on Play.
Maybe Scala is not that bad, but I am a Java developer and can study another language only when I have time. But now I must do what I am to do, by the use of the means I know, and the knowledge of which was announced by framework developers.
p.s. Remember Apple's goal which is “to create simple objects”. The user was deprived of everything unnecessary. It is true that he was bereft of some frills, but as it turned out to be a golden mean. Moreover he still can do everything he wants but at the same time an ordinary user is not distracted with all that additional stuff.
p.p.s. Return ok (…) are you serious? If I'm ready to return something to the user it is already ok! Otherwise I throw exception.
- P.P.P.S If this idea of Scala belongs to the man who has made the website acid green than it is him who is the root of evil!) Get rid of him!)
- Dear friends!
One small truth
Scala sucks. Well, the language might be considered quite good but the fact that compilation really takes a lot of time is indisputable.- Up to 13sec! And that's after slight changes made to the template (!)
Having allocated myself a separate server especially for compilation, I managed to increase the speed to 5 sec – butstill it remains a lot. We've tried it on different platforms.
One big lie
- "The Play framework makes it easier to build web applications with Java & Scala."
- The truth would be: "The Play framework makes it easier to build web applications with Scala, but if you want to use Java.... then, well ok May The Force be with you!"
I'll speak about that later.
- My story
When I read about Play framework for the first time, I entered the website and watched the video about the 1.x. version. Oh my God! This is it! - I thought. I've installed it, repeated everything according to the example on the video,and quickly applying documentation I outlined a copy of the project that I'm working on.
A whole month I tried to convince my boss of using Play Framework in new projects, because it was much better than what we were using. And I did it. But you have played a trick – changed everything radically.
Now when we are realising a new project using Play framework 2, my colleagues give be black looks, but I can't make any excuses– explain that it is not what it used to be, that I cannot help them when I don't know the way it works.
Quick elaboration
What I liked in Play 1.x was the speed. Not the work speed (now everybody has it up-to-date), but the elaboration speed. Everything is quick and simple. In the 2.0 it's a torture.
Resistance to the current circumstances, efforts to find the way of doing what used to be done easily and in several modes.
- Scala
- I am a Java developer. Why must I study Scala to make an elementary template? That is just a template! A means of formating an information output. That is fantastic that
- it can be compiled. But what do I need it for? If I spend a great deal of time on elaboration, especially on waiting.
Maybe in America you compile Scala code, but here in Russia Scala code compile you.- It hurts!
To fulfill the simpliest things I have to adress Google groups because there is no information.
I cannot set a variable in the template to use it later in the cycle.- What for do I need this sort of template engine that I have to “overcome”:
[error] /home/romka/projects/ponominalu/target/scala-2.9.1/src_managed/main/views/html/event.template.scala:156: '(' expected but ')' found.[error] """),_display_(Seq(/*123.14*/for)),format.raw/*123.17*/(""" ((sector,i) <-subevent.sectors.zipWithIndex) """),format.raw("""{"""),format.raw/*123.64*/("""[error] ^[error] /home/romka/projects/ponominalu/target/scala-2.9.1/src_managed/main/views/html/event.template.scala:421: illegal start of simple expression[error] """)))})),format.raw/*388.2*/("""[error] ^[error] two errors found
- Eh? Where should I look for a mistake in this output? Please don't say that in line 156...
How THIS can help me to find out what has happened? And it was just an extra space character.
- What about data transfer to the template?
Before I could transfer all the data to the template by use of @Before, for example menu that I have on every page. '- Now I have to transfer menu data in every template call, and in each of them I should pass it through the base one. That's nonsense!
Porting
- That is great that you believe that Scala is the thing of the future ( while I doubt that with this compilation speed you mean the nearest future, but ok). Do add but don't substitute! You consider Ebean better than Hibernate – leave the choice to the ones who are used to it!
- Try opening a restaurant in Japan. Substitute sticks with forks ( because there exists a wide-spread opinion that forks are more progressive than sticks) and look if it works out.
B
- ackward compatibility always was a basis of Java, that is why it was developing slowly, though there were no problems with launching old projects in new versions.
You have removed war creating – how should I deploy it on tomcat.
You have added
- processing of text output through org.apache.commons.lang.StringEscapeUtils.escapeHtml(text). Oh, that is nice! But it crumples all the text turning it into Сыновья
- to turn it off I have to edit Templates.scala and somehow recompile (taking into account that I have no idea how it should be done manually). After a Play framewok version update – I will have to do it again.
- Conclusion
Now Play is a pain in the neck ! If in the beginning it was a very simple and very fast framework, now it has become just one of many.
You will probably attract Scala fans, but you will lose Java developers, because it is just impossible to avoid working with Scala while creating a product on Play.
Maybe Scala is not that bad, but I am a Java developer and can study another language only when I have time. But now I must do what I am to do, by the use of the means I know, and the knowledge of which was announced by framework developers.
p.s. Remember Apple's goal which is “to create simple objects”. The user was deprived of everything unnecessary. It is true that he was bereft of some frills, but as it turned out to be a golden mean. Moreover he still can do everything he wants but at the same time an ordinary user is not distracted with all that additional stuff.
p.p.s. Return ok (…) are you serious? If I'm ready to return something to the user it is already ok! Otherwise I throw exception.
- P.P.P.S If this idea of Scala belongs to the man who has made the website acid green than it is him who is the root of evil!) Get rid of him!)
- Dear friends!
One small truth
Scala sucks. Well, the language might be considered quite good but the fact that compilation really takes a lot of time is indisputable.- Up to 13sec! And that's after slight changes made to the template (!)
Having allocated myself a separate server especially for compilation, I managed to increase the speed to 5 sec – butstill it remains a lot. We've tried it on different platforms.
One big lie
- "The Play framework makes it easier to build web applications with Java & Scala."
- The truth would be: "The Play framework makes it easier to build web applications with Scala, but if you want to use Java.... then, well ok May The Force be with you!"
I'll speak about that later.
- My story
When I read about Play framework for the first time, I entered the website and watched the video about the 1.x. version. Oh my God! This is it! - I thought. I've installed it, repeated everything according to the example on the video,and quickly applying documentation I outlined a copy of the project that I'm working on.
A whole month I tried to convince my boss of using Play Framework in new projects, because it was much better than what we were using. And I did it. But you have played a trick – changed everything radically.
Now when we are realising a new project using Play framework 2, my colleagues give be black looks, but I can't make any excuses– explain that it is not what it used to be, that I cannot help them when I don't know the way it works.
Quick elaboration
What I liked in Play 1.x was the speed. Not the work speed (now everybody has it up-to-date), but the elaboration speed. Everything is quick and simple. In the 2.0 it's a torture.
Resistance to the current circumstances, efforts to find the way of doing what used to be done easily and in several modes.
- Scala
- I am a Java developer. Why must I study Scala to make an elementary template? That is just a template! A means of formating an information output. That is fantastic that
- it can be compiled. But what do I need it for? If I spend a great deal of time on elaboration, especially on waiting.
Maybe in America you compile Scala code, but here in Russia Scala code compile you.- It hurts!
To fulfill the simpliest things I have to adress Google groups because there is no information.
I cannot set a variable in the template to use it later in the cycle.- What for do I need this sort of template engine that I have to “overcome”:
[error] /home/romka/projects/ponominalu/target/scala-2.9.1/src_managed/main/views/html/event.template.scala:156: '(' expected but ')' found.[error] """),_display_(Seq(/*123.14*/for)),format.raw/*123.17*/(""" ((sector,i) <-subevent.sectors.zipWithIndex) """),format.raw("""{"""),format.raw/*123.64*/("""[error] ^[error] /home/romka/projects/ponominalu/target/scala-2.9.1/src_managed/main/views/html/event.template.scala:421: illegal start of simple expression[error] """)))})),format.raw/*388.2*/("""[error] ^[error] two errors found
- Eh? Where should I look for a mistake in this output? Please don't say that in line 156...
How THIS can help me to find out what has happened? And it was just an extra space character.
- What about data transfer to the template?
Before I could transfer all the data to the template by use of @Before, for example menu that I have on every page. '- Now I have to transfer menu data in every template call, and in each of them I should pass it through the base one. That's nonsense!
Porting
- That is great that you believe that Scala is the thing of the future ( while I doubt that with this compilation speed you mean the nearest future, but ok). Do add but don't substitute! You consider Ebean better than Hibernate – leave the choice to the ones who are used to it!
- Try opening a restaurant in Japan. Substitute sticks with forks ( because there exists a wide-spread opinion that forks are more progressive than sticks) and look if it works out.
B
- ackward compatibility always was a basis of Java, that is why it was developing slowly, though there were no problems with launching old projects in new versions.
You have removed war creating – how should I deploy it on tomcat.
You have added
- processing of text output through org.apache.commons.lang.StringEscapeUtils.escapeHtml(text). Oh, that is nice! But it crumples all the text turning it into Сыновья
- to turn it off I have to edit Templates.scala and somehow recompile (taking into account that I have no idea how it should be done manually). After a Play framewok version update – I will have to do it again.
- Conclusion
Now Play is a pain in the neck ! If in the beginning it was a very simple and very fast framework, now it has become just one of many.
You will probably attract Scala fans, but you will lose Java developers, because it is just impossible to avoid working with Scala while creating a product on Play.
Maybe Scala is not that bad, but I am a Java developer and can study another language only when I have time. But now I must do what I am to do, by the use of the means I know, and the knowledge of which was announced by framework developers.
p.s. Remember Apple's goal which is “to create simple objects”. The user was deprived of everything unnecessary. It is true that he was bereft of some frills, but as it turned out to be a golden mean. Moreover he still can do everything he wants but at the same time an ordinary user is not distracted with all that additional stuff.
p.p.s. Return ok (…) are you serious? If I'm ready to return something to the user it is already ok! Otherwise I throw exception.
- P.P.P.S If this idea of Scala belongs to the man who has made the website acid green than it is him who is the root of evil!) Get rid of him!)
- Dear friends!
One small truth
Scala sucks. Well, the language might be considered quite good but the fact that compilation really takes a lot of time is indisputable.- Up to 13sec! And that's after slight changes made to the template (!)
Having allocated myself a separate server especially for compilation, I managed to increase the speed to 5 sec – butstill it remains a lot. We've tried it on different platforms.
One big lie
- "The Play framework makes it easier to build web applications with Java & Scala."
- The truth would be: "The Play framework makes it easier to build web applications with Scala, but if you want to use Java.... then, well ok May The Force be with you!"
I'll speak about that later.
- My story
When I read about Play framework for the first time, I entered the website and watched the video about the 1.x. version. Oh my God! This is it! - I thought. I've installed it, repeated everything according to the example on the video,and quickly applying documentation I outlined a copy of the project that I'm working on.
A whole month I tried to convince my boss of using Play Framework in new projects, because it was much better than what we were using. And I did it. But you have played a trick – changed everything radically.
Now when we are realising a new project using Play framework 2, my colleagues give be black looks, but I can't make any excuses– explain that it is not what it used to be, that I cannot help them when I don't know the way it works.
Quick elaboration
What I liked in Play 1.x was the speed. Not the work speed (now everybody has it up-to-date), but the elaboration speed. Everything is quick and simple. In the 2.0 it's a torture.
Resistance to the current circumstances, efforts to find the way of doing what used to be done easily and in several modes.
- Scala
- I am a Java developer. Why must I study Scala to make an elementary template? That is just a template! A means of formating an information output. That is fantastic that
- it can be compiled. But what do I need it for? If I spend a great deal of time on elaboration, especially on waiting.
Maybe in America you compile Scala code, but here in Russia Scala code compile you.- It hurts!
To fulfill the simpliest things I have to adress Google groups because there is no information.
I cannot set a variable in the template to use it later in the cycle.- What for do I need this sort of template engine that I have to “overcome”:
[error] /home/romka/projects/ponominalu/target/scala-2.9.1/src_managed/main/views/html/event.template.scala:156: '(' expected but ')' found.[error] """),_display_(Seq(/*123.14*/for)),format.raw/*123.17*/(""" ((sector,i) <-subevent.sectors.zipWithIndex) """),format.raw("""{"""),format.raw/*123.64*/("""[error] ^[error] /home/romka/projects/ponominalu/target/scala-2.9.1/src_managed/main/views/html/event.template.scala:421: illegal start of simple expression[error] """)))})),format.raw/*388.2*/("""[error] ^[error] two errors found
- Eh? Where should I look for a mistake in this output? Please don't say that in line 156...
How THIS can help me to find out what has happened? And it was just an extra space character.
- What about data transfer to the template?
Before I could transfer all the data to the template by use of @Before, for example menu that I have on every page. '- Now I have to transfer menu data in every template call, and in each of them I should pass it through the base one. That's nonsense!
Porting
- That is great that you believe that Scala is the thing of the future ( while I doubt that with this compilation speed you mean the nearest future, but ok). Do add but don't substitute! You consider Ebean better than Hibernate – leave the choice to the ones who are used to it!
- Try opening a restaurant in Japan. Substitute sticks with forks ( because there exists a wide-spread opinion that forks are more progressive than sticks) and look if it works out.
B
- ackward compatibility always was a basis of Java, that is why it was developing slowly, though there were no problems with launching old projects in new versions.
You have removed war creating – how should I deploy it on tomcat.
You have added
- processing of text output through org.apache.commons.lang.StringEscapeUtils.escapeHtml(text). Oh, that is nice! But it crumples all the text turning it into Сыновья
- to turn it off I have to edit Templates.scala and somehow recompile (taking into account that I have no idea how it should be done manually). After a Play framewok version update – I will have to do it again.
- Conclusion
Now Play is a pain in the neck ! If in the beginning it was a very simple and very fast framework, now it has become just one of many.
You will probably attract Scala fans, but you will lose Java developers, because it is just impossible to avoid working with Scala while creating a product on Play.
Maybe Scala is not that bad, but I am a Java developer and can study another language only when I have time. But now I must do what I am to do, by the use of the means I know, and the knowledge of which was announced by framework developers.
p.s. Remember Apple's goal which is “to create simple objects”. The user was deprived of everything unnecessary. It is true that he was bereft of some frills, but as it turned out to be a golden mean. Moreover he still can do everything he wants but at the same time an ordinary user is not distracted with all that additional stuff.
p.p.s. Return ok (…) are you serious? If I'm ready to return something to the user it is already ok! Otherwise I throw exception.
- P.P.P.S If this idea of Scala belongs to the man who has made the website acid green than it is him who is the root of evil!) Get rid of him!)
- Dear friends!
One small truth
Scala sucks. Well, the language might be considered quite good but the fact that compilation really takes a lot of time is indisputable.- Up to 13sec! And that's after slight changes made to the template (!)
Having allocated myself a separate server especially for compilation, I managed to increase the speed to 5 sec – butstill it remains a lot. We've tried it on different platforms.
One big lie
- "The Play framework makes it easier to build web applications with Java & Scala."
- The truth would be: "The Play framework makes it easier to build web applications with Scala, but if you want to use Java.... then, well ok May The Force be with you!"
I'll speak about that later.
- My story
When I read about Play framework for the first time, I entered the website and watched the video about the 1.x. version. Oh my God! This is it! - I thought. I've installed it, repeated everything according to the example on the video,and quickly applying documentation I outlined a copy of the project that I'm working on.
A whole month I tried to convince my boss of using Play Framework in new projects, because it was much better than what we were using. And I did it. But you have played a trick – changed everything radically.
Now when we are realising a new project using Play framework 2, my colleagues give be black looks, but I can't make any excuses– explain that it is not what it used to be, that I cannot help them when I don't know the way it works.
Quick elaboration
What I liked in Play 1.x was the speed. Not the work speed (now everybody has it up-to-date), but the elaboration speed. Everything is quick and simple. In the 2.0 it's a torture.
Resistance to the current circumstances, efforts to find the way of doing what used to be done easily and in several modes.
- Scala
- I am a Java developer. Why must I study Scala to make an elementary template? That is just a template! A means of formating an information output. That is fantastic that
- it can be compiled. But what do I need it for? If I spend a great deal of time on elaboration, especially on waiting.
Maybe in America you compile Scala code, but here in Russia Scala code compile you.- It hurts!
To fulfill the simpliest things I have to adress Google groups because there is no information.
I cannot set a variable in the template to use it later in the cycle.- What for do I need this sort of template engine that I have to “overcome”:
[error] /home/romka/projects/ponominalu/target/scala-2.9.1/src_managed/main/views/html/event.template.scala:156: '(' expected but ')' found.[error] """),_display_(Seq(/*123.14*/for)),format.raw/*123.17*/(""" ((sector,i) <-subevent.sectors.zipWithIndex) """),format.raw("""{"""),format.raw/*123.64*/("""[error] ^[error] /home/romka/projects/ponominalu/target/scala-2.9.1/src_managed/main/views/html/event.template.scala:421: illegal start of simple expression[error] """)))})),format.raw/*388.2*/("""[error] ^[error] two errors found
- Eh? Where should I look for a mistake in this output? Please don't say that in line 156...
How THIS can help me to find out what has happened? And it was just an extra space character.
- What about data transfer to the template?
Before I could transfer all the data to the template by use of @Before, for example menu that I have on every page. '- Now I have to transfer menu data in every template call, and in each of them I should pass it through the base one. That's nonsense!
Porting
- That is great that you believe that Scala is the thing of the future ( while I doubt that with this compilation speed you mean the nearest future, but ok). Do add but don't substitute! You consider Ebean better than Hibernate – leave the choice to the ones who are used to it!
- Try opening a restaurant in Japan. Substitute sticks with forks ( because there exists a wide-spread opinion that forks are more progressive than sticks) and look if it works out.
B
- ackward compatibility always was a basis of Java, that is why it was developing slowly, though there were no problems with launching old projects in new versions.
You have removed war creating – how should I deploy it on tomcat.
You have added
- processing of text output through org.apache.commons.lang.StringEscapeUtils.escapeHtml(text). Oh, that is nice! But it crumples all the text turning it into Сыновья
- to turn it off I have to edit Templates.scala and somehow recompile (taking into account that I have no idea how it should be done manually). After a Play framewok version update – I will have to do it again.
- Conclusion
Now Play is a pain in the neck ! If in the beginning it was a very simple and very fast framework, now it has become just one of many.
You will probably attract Scala fans, but you will lose Java developers, because it is just impossible to avoid working with Scala while creating a product on Play.
Maybe Scala is not that bad, but I am a Java developer and can study another language only when I have time. But now I must do what I am to do, by the use of the means I know, and the knowledge of which was announced by framework developers.
p.s. Remember Apple's goal which is “to create simple objects”. The user was deprived of everything unnecessary. It is true that he was bereft of some frills, but as it turned out to be a golden mean. Moreover he still can do everything he wants but at the same time an ordinary user is not distracted with all that additional stuff.
p.p.s. Return ok (…) are you serious? If I'm ready to return something to the user it is already ok! Otherwise I throw exception.
- P.P.P.S If this idea of Scala belongs to the man who has made the website acid green than it is him who is the root of evil!) Get rid of him!)
- Dear friends!
One small truth
Scala sucks. Well, the language might be considered quite good but the fact that compilation really takes a lot of time is indisputable.- Up to 13sec! And that's after slight changes made to the template (!)
Having allocated myself a separate server especially for compilation, I managed to increase the speed to 5 sec – butstill it remains a lot. We've tried it on different platforms.
One big lie
- "The Play framework makes it easier to build web applications with Java & Scala."
- The truth would be: "The Play framework makes it easier to build web applications with Scala, but if you want to use Java.... then, well ok May The Force be with you!"
I'll speak about that later.
- My story
When I read about Play framework for the first time, I entered the website and watched the video about the 1.x. version. Oh my God! This is it! - I thought. I've installed it, repeated everything according to the example on the video,and quickly applying documentation I outlined a copy of the project that I'm working on.
A whole month I tried to convince my boss of using Play Framework in new projects, because it was much better than what we were using. And I did it. But you have played a trick – changed everything radically.
Now when we are realising a new project using Play framework 2, my colleagues give be black looks, but I can't make any excuses– explain that it is not what it used to be, that I cannot help them when I don't know the way it works.
Quick elaboration
What I liked in Play 1.x was the speed. Not the work speed (now everybody has it up-to-date), but the elaboration speed. Everything is quick and simple. In the 2.0 it's a torture.
Resistance to the current circumstances, efforts to find the way of doing what used to be done easily and in several modes.
- Scala
- I am a Java developer. Why must I study Scala to make an elementary template? That is just a template! A means of formating an information output. That is fantastic that
- it can be compiled. But what do I need it for? If I spend a great deal of time on elaboration, especially on waiting.
Maybe in America you compile Scala code, but here in Russia Scala code compile you.- It hurts!
To fulfill the simpliest things I have to adress Google groups because there is no information.
I cannot set a variable in the template to use it later in the cycle.- What for do I need this sort of template engine that I have to “overcome”:
[error] /home/romka/projects/ponominalu/target/scala-2.9.1/src_managed/main/views/html/event.template.scala:156: '(' expected but ')' found.[error] """),_display_(Seq(/*123.14*/for)),format.raw/*123.17*/(""" ((sector,i) <-subevent.sectors.zipWithIndex) """),format.raw("""{"""),format.raw/*123.64*/("""[error] ^[error] /home/romka/projects/ponominalu/target/scala-2.9.1/src_managed/main/views/html/event.template.scala:421: illegal start of simple expression[error] """)))})),format.raw/*388.2*/("""[error] ^[error] two errors found
- Eh? Where should I look for a mistake in this output? Please don't say that in line 156...
How THIS can help me to find out what has happened? And it was just an extra space character.
- What about data transfer to the template?
Before I could transfer all the data to the template by use of @Before, for example menu that I have on every page. '- Now I have to transfer menu data in every template call, and in each of them I should pass it through the base one. That's nonsense!
Porting
- That is great that you believe that Scala is the thing of the future ( while I doubt that with this compilation speed you mean the nearest future, but ok). Do add but don't substitute! You consider Ebean better than Hibernate – leave the choice to the ones who are used to it!
- Try opening a restaurant in Japan. Substitute sticks with forks ( because there exists a wide-spread opinion that forks are more progressive than sticks) and look if it works out.
B
- ackward compatibility always was a basis of Java, that is why it was developing slowly, though there were no problems with launching old projects in new versions.
You have removed war creating – how should I deploy it on tomcat.
You have added
- processing of text output through org.apache.commons.lang.StringEscapeUtils.escapeHtml(text). Oh, that is nice! But it crumples all the text turning it into Сыновья
- to turn it off I have to edit Templates.scala and somehow recompile (taking into account that I have no idea how it should be done manually). After a Play framewok version update – I will have to do it again.
- Conclusion
Now Play is a pain in the neck ! If in the beginning it was a very simple and very fast framework, now it has become just one of many.
You will probably attract Scala fans, but you will lose Java developers, because it is just impossible to avoid working with Scala while creating a product on Play.
Maybe Scala is not that bad, but I am a Java developer and can study another language only when I have time. But now I must do what I am to do, by the use of the means I know, and the knowledge of which was announced by framework developers.
p.s. Remember Apple's goal which is “to create simple objects”. The user was deprived of everything unnecessary. It is true that he was bereft of some frills, but as it turned out to be a golden mean. Moreover he still can do everything he wants but at the same time an ordinary user is not distracted with all that additional stuff.
p.p.s. Return ok (…) are you serious? If I'm ready to return something to the user it is already ok! Otherwise I throw exception.
- P.P.P.S If this idea of Scala belongs to the man who has made the website acid green than it is him who is the root of evil!) Get rid of him!)
- Dear friends!
One small truth
Scala sucks. Well, the language might be considered quite good but the fact that compilation really takes a lot of time is indisputable.- Up to 13sec! And that's after slight changes made to the template (!)
Having allocated myself a separate server especially for compilation, I managed to increase the speed to 5 sec – butstill it remains a lot. We've tried it on different platforms.
One big lie
- "The Play framework makes it easier to build web applications with Java & Scala."
- The truth would be: "The Play framework makes it easier to build web applications with Scala, but if you want to use Java.... then, well ok May The Force be with you!"
I'll speak about that later.
- My story
When I read about Play framework for the first time, I entered the website and watched the video about the 1.x. version. Oh my God! This is it! - I thought. I've installed it, repeated everything according to the example on the video,and quickly applying documentation I outlined a copy of the project that I'm working on.
A whole month I tried to convince my boss of using Play Framework in new projects, because it was much better than what we were using. And I did it. But you have played a trick – changed everything radically.
Now when we are realising a new project using Play framework 2, my colleagues give be black looks, but I can't make any excuses– explain that it is not what it used to be, that I cannot help them when I don't know the way it works.
Quick elaboration
What I liked in Play 1.x was the speed. Not the work speed (now everybody has it up-to-date), but the elaboration speed. Everything is quick and simple. In the 2.0 it's a torture.
Resistance to the current circumstances, efforts to find the way of doing what used to be done easily and in several modes.
- Scala
- I am a Java developer. Why must I study Scala to make an elementary template? That is just a template! A means of formating an information output. That is fantastic that
- it can be compiled. But what do I need it for? If I spend a great deal of time on elaboration, especially on waiting.
Maybe in America you compile Scala code, but here in Russia Scala code compile you.- It hurts!
To fulfill the simpliest things I have to adress Google groups because there is no information.
I cannot set a variable in the template to use it later in the cycle.- What for do I need this sort of template engine that I have to “overcome”:
[error] /home/romka/projects/ponominalu/target/scala-2.9.1/src_managed/main/views/html/event.template.scala:156: '(' expected but ')' found.[error] """),_display_(Seq(/*123.14*/for)),format.raw/*123.17*/(""" ((sector,i) <-subevent.sectors.zipWithIndex) """),format.raw("""{"""),format.raw/*123.64*/("""[error] ^[error] /home/romka/projects/ponominalu/target/scala-2.9.1/src_managed/main/views/html/event.template.scala:421: illegal start of simple expression[error] """)))})),format.raw/*388.2*/("""[error] ^[error] two errors found
- Eh? Where should I look for a mistake in this output? Please don't say that in line 156...
How THIS can help me to find out what has happened? And it was just an extra space character.
- What about data transfer to the template?
Before I could transfer all the data to the template by use of @Before, for example menu that I have on every page. '- Now I have to transfer menu data in every template call, and in each of them I should pass it through the base one. That's nonsense!
Porting
- That is great that you believe that Scala is the thing of the future ( while I doubt that with this compilation speed you mean the nearest future, but ok). Do add but don't substitute! You consider Ebean better than Hibernate – leave the choice to the ones who are used to it!
- Try opening a restaurant in Japan. Substitute sticks with forks ( because there exists a wide-spread opinion that forks are more progressive than sticks) and look if it works out.
B
- ackward compatibility always was a basis of Java, that is why it was developing slowly, though there were no problems with launching old projects in new versions.
You have removed war creating – how should I deploy it on tomcat.
You have added
- processing of text output through org.apache.commons.lang.StringEscapeUtils.escapeHtml(text). Oh, that is nice! But it crumples all the text turning it into Сыновья
- to turn it off I have to edit Templates.scala and somehow recompile (taking into account that I have no idea how it should be done manually). After a Play framewok version update – I will have to do it again.
- Conclusion
Now Play is a pain in the neck ! If in the beginning it was a very simple and very fast framework, now it has become just one of many.
You will probably attract Scala fans, but you will lose Java developers, because it is just impossible to avoid working with Scala while creating a product on Play.
Maybe Scala is not that bad, but I am a Java developer and can study another language only when I have time. But now I must do what I am to do, by the use of the means I know, and the knowledge of which was announced by framework developers.
p.s. Remember Apple's goal which is “to create simple objects”. The user was deprived of everything unnecessary. It is true that he was bereft of some frills, but as it turned out to be a golden mean. Moreover he still can do everything he wants but at the same time an ordinary user is not distracted with all that additional stuff.
p.p.s. Return ok (…) are you serious? If I'm ready to return something to the user it is already ok! Otherwise I throw exception.
- Dear friends!
One small truth
- Scala sucks. Well, the language might be considered quite good but the fact that compilation really takes a lot of time is indisputable.
- Up to 13sec! And that's after slight changes made to the template (!)
Having allocated myself a separate server especially for compilation, I managed to increase the speed to 5 sec – butstill it remains a lot. We've tried it on different platforms.
- One big lie
- "The Play framework makes it easier to build web applications with Java & Scala."
- The truth would be: "The Play framework makes it easier to build web applications with Scala, but if you want to use Java.... then, well ok May The Force be with you!"
I'll speak about that later.
- My story
When I read about Play framework for the first time, I entered the website and watched the video about the 1.x. version. Oh my God! This is it! - I thought. I've installed it, repeated everything according to the example on the video,and quickly applying documentation I outlined a copy of the project that I'm working on.
A whole month I tried to convince my boss of using Play Framework in new projects, because it was much better than what we were using. And I did it. But you have played a trick – changed everything radically.
Now when we are realising a new project using Play framework 2, my colleagues give be black looks, but I can't make any excuses– explain that it is not what it used to be, that I cannot help them when I don't know the way it works.
- Quick elaboration
What I liked in Play 1.x was the speed. Not the work speed (now everybody has it up-to-date), but the elaboration speed. Everything is quick and simple. In the 2.0 it's a torture.
- I am a Java developer. Why must I study Scala to make an elementary template? That is just a template! A means of formating an information output. That is fantastic that it can be compiled. But what do I need it for? If I spend a great deal of time on elaboration, especially on waiting.
Maybe in America you compile Scala code, but here in Russia Scala code compile you.- It hurts!
To fulfill the simpliest things I have to adress Google groups because there is no information.
I cannot set a variable in the template to use it later in the cycle.- What for do I need this sort of template engine that I have to “overcome”:
[error] /home/romka/projects/ponominalu/target/scala-2.9.1/src_managed/main/views/html/event.template.scala:156: '(' expected but ')' found.[error] """),_display_(Seq(/*123.14*/for)),format.raw/*123.17*/(""" ((sector,i) <-subevent.sectors.zipWithIndex) """),format.raw("""{"""),format.raw/*123.64*/("""[error] ^[error] /home/romka/projects/ponominalu/target/scala-2.9.1/src_managed/main/views/html/event.template.scala:421: illegal start of simple expression[error] """)))})),format.raw/*388.2*/("""[error] ^[error] two errors found
- Eh? Where should I look for a mistake in this output? Please don't say that in line 156...
How THIS can help me to find out what has happened? And it was just an extra space character.
What about data transfer to the template?
Before I could transfer all the data to the template by use of @Before, for example menu that I have on every page. '
- Now I have to transfer menu data in every template call, and in each of them I should pass it through the base one. That's nonsense!
- Porting
- That is great that you believe that Scala is the thing of the future ( while I doubt that with this compilation speed you mean the nearest future, but ok). Do add but don't substitute! You consider Ebean better than Hibernate – leave the choice to the ones who are used to it!
Try opening a restaurant in Japan. Substitute sticks with forks ( because there exists a wide-spread opinion that forks are more progressive than sticks) and look if it works out.
B
- ackward compatibility always was a basis of Java, that is why it was developing slowly, though there were no problems with launching old projects in new versions.
You have removed war creating – how should I deploy it on tomcat.
- You have added processing of text output through org.apache.commons.lang.StringEscapeUtils.escapeHtml(text). Oh, that is nice! But it crumples all the text turning it into Сыновья
- to turn it off I have to edit Templates.scala and somehow recompile (taking into account that I have no idea how it should be done manually). After a Play framewok version update – I will have to do it again.
- Conclusion
Now Play is a pain in the neck ! If in the beginning it was a very simple and very fast framework, now it has become just one of many.
You will probably
- attract Scala fans, but you will lose Java developers, because it is just impossible to avoid working with Scala while creating a product on Play.
Maybe Scala is not that bad, but I am a Java developer and can study another language only when I have time. But now I must do what I am to do, by the use of the means I know, and the knowledge of which was announced by framework developers.
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how can you tell developers "There are modules out there , try to integrate yourself" ...
It's such a difficult task...(for Scala/SBT-unfamiliar java developers)
That got a lot better. We also had 2-3 minutes reload time, which was
mostly due to the bytecode enhancements. Now we're down to about 5
sec, much better. This is the time it takes to start the application
up - it does quite a few things there, which probably isn't a too
common case so I'd expect reloading to be very fast in general.
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