P303 Fuel Tank Replacement

[Redondo Sailor]

Hi All. I have reason to believe that the fuel tank of my 1984 P303
needs replacement. In various posting on other sailing sites, I am led
to believe that the existing, original equipment, tank can be removed
through the lazarette. If anyone has experience with this issue, I
would be glad to hear about it. Further, what is the current thinking
about aluminum versus plastic diesel fuel tanks?

Thanks.

[Richard Usen]

Your tank may possibly be Monel and if so, should last forever. Why do you
think it needs to be replaced?

Diesel fuel can collect acid which would likely affect an aluminum tank,
which is why diesel tanks are usually steel.

Thanks.

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[Richard Tiernan]

I my removed my fuel tank through my lazarette to steam clean it when I
purchased my 303 about 20 years ago. It was manufactured by Florida Marine
Tanks. http://www.floridamarinetanks.com/ Hope that helps.

Richard Tiernan
Buccaneer
P303 #162
Shelter Island, NY

----- Original Message -----
From: "Redondo Sailor" <satin...@mypacks.net>
To: "pearson-boats" <pearso...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 2:49 AM
Subject: [pearson ] P303 Fuel Tank Replacement

[Dan LeBlond]

Your fuel tank is likely made of Monel, a good grade of high copper
nickel stainless, it probably is fouled with junk and bio organisms.
The tank is removable as you have learned. The 30 gal monel tank on my
P323 was badly fouled, I removed it through the Port cockpit seat
locker without much effort and sent it to a Canadian firm through my
local radiator and fuel tank repair shop. It came back polished and
epoxy coated. that was in may of 2001 and I've not needed to replace a
fuel filter during the regular season since. The radiator shop told me
that that tenk will outlast everything else on the boat and can be re-
cleaned many times. My marine surveyor did suggest replacing the
galvanized steel hold down hardware with 304 stainless. and stainless
steel straps.

[Redondo Sailor]

Hi Richard. I am almost certain the tank leaks in that I returned to
the boat and discovered about 10 gallons of pink diesel in the bilge.
As luck would have it, the bilge pump was not working because of a
dead battery. A close call there, but no overboard discharge of fuel.
Pumped 95% of fuel to containers and disposed of it in oil recycle
bin. Remainder was about 15 oil-absorb cloths. Inspection shows the
plywood framing for the tank supports saturated with fuel. Dipstick
into tank was completely dry.

[Richard Usen]

It sure sounds like you should remove the tank. Inspect it carefully before
you dispose of it tho if its Monel.

-----Original Message-----
From: pearso...@googlegroups.com [mailto:pearso...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Redondo Sailor

--

[Peter Ogilvie]

If the tank is Monel it's more than worthwhile to rehab. than replace.  There
are professional companies, as has been mentioned, who clean out the tank and
coat the interior with epoxy to stop leaks.  It's done all the time with old
motorcycles and cars and seems to last for a good long time.  It also could be
just a case of a small pinhole or seam leack that could be soldered to seal it
and the tank will be good as new.  Monel is forever in most cases and probably
way too expensive to have a tank built out of these days.  In any case, the
repair would probably be cheaper than replacing it unless you use one of the
premade plastic tanks.

Sympathise with you about the diesel in the bilge.  I over filled my tanks
before I left for Hawaii.  Everything was fine till a front went through and the
temp jumped up about 10 degrees.  Expansion of the fuel overflowed the vent and
the bilge pump sent what little diesel that had leaked out overboard.  Couldn't
have been more than a few cups of diesel but it made a nasty looking slick
around the bilge pump outlet.  Luckily it happened just before sunset on a
weekday so there was no one around to see it.  I was paniced fearing
the enviro-nazis would start slapping me with outrageous fines and clean up
costs for a very minor accident.  Ran the engine for a couple of hours to lower
the fuel level in the tank and soaked up all the liquid in the bilge and all was
well.
 Aloha
Peter Ogilvie
Pa'akai O'o, Pearson 35 #108
Too many Landrovers, some even run.

----- Original Message ----
> From: Redondo Sailor <satin...@mypacks.net>
> To: pearson-boats <pearso...@googlegroups.com>

> Sent: Sun, March 20, 2011 10:14:43 AM
> Subject: [pearson ] Re: P303 Fuel Tank Replacement
>

[Nathan Dimock]

There should be a builder's plate on the top of the tank.  If your tank is like the one in our 1984 P303, it is aluminum, not monel, and is subject to corrosion.  The original 22 gal. tank was built by Florida Marine Tank, which is still in business.  They may still have the original plans.  I contacted them last year to get a quote on a new tank based just on the dimensions, and it came out somewhere around $375 plus shipping.  Although that isn't too much in the marine world, I'm planning on replacing with a 19 gal. Moeller poly tank, which is currently on sale at West Marine for $136 (they actually beat Defender on this).  You will also need the diesel return kit that comes with a fuel level sender, which is available from several sources for under $40.  I like the idea of a smaller tank given that we don't even come close to using 22 gals. in a season.  Plus, the poly won't corrode and should be less inclined to cause condensation in the tank.  I believe another P303 owner has already done this replacement.  The Moeller tank is very close in dimensions to the original, so should be an easy fit (it is between 1-2 inches smaller in all dimensions).  As for getting the old tank out, I took measurements this weekend in preparation for our replacement and it SHOULD fit out the cockpit locker hatch.  If not, the other option is to remove the panel on the starboard side of the engine in the quarter berth.  That panel is held on with only four screws and allows great access to the engine compartment.  I know because that is how I just finished replacing our motor mounts and aligning the engine - much easier than trying to work in the locker.  If you pull that panel, you may also need to remove the battery compartment latch next to the base of the panel to get enough clearance to slide the panel out (three screws). 

 

Nathan

S/V Carolena

1984 P303

Washington, DC

[Nathan Dimock]

Here is the info I got from Florida Marine Tanks last year - I wouldn't be surprised if the price has gone up given the run on metals over the past year (we are going with poly for reasons I already stated):

 

A fuel tank with the provided specifications would be 22 gallons.  The tank will be manufactured from .125 aluminum at a cost of $350.00 each.

 

·         Tank is manufactured out of 5052-H32 Aluminum Alloy.

·         Terms are payment in full to issue drawings and initiate manufacture.

·         Lead-time: approximately 4 weeks after we receive full payment and drawing approval

·         Tanks are quoted FOB Henderson, NC.

·         Shipping is not included nor estimated by FMT.  Tanks are shipped freight collect.

·         This quote is based exclusively on the information contained on drawings.  Revisions and/or variations from this information may invalidate this quote.

·         Tanks are quoted with pickup (NPTF fitting welded), fill, vent, and electric sending unit.

·         We no longer stock or purchase Wema or Rochester Twin-Site senders (visual gauges).

·         To ensure the structural integrity and safety of our product, F.M.T. requires mounting information (via drawing, video, and/or written explanation).  F.M.T. engineering will assist in advising acceptable mounting modes should you require it.

·         FMT recommends tank to have a fully supported bottom with ¼” neoprene rubber strips separating tank with support, and tank to be strapped or bracketed down.

·         Tank is not designed for high performance use (application 55 MPH or greater)

·         Quote valid for 30 days.

 

 

[Richard Usen]

I was always told that the main issue w/ diesel tanks is sulfurous acid from the sulfur inherent in diesel fuel and the condensed water. This being the case, I’d be hesitant to use an aluminum tank. What does FMT say about this? I guess you don’t need to worry about the speed limit.

[Nathan Dimock]

That is an interesting point.  I wonder if the new ultra low sulphur diesel fuels that is now being sold in the US makes a difference?  I'd also note that our aluminum tank is going on 27 years and still doesn't leak.  From what I have heard, most of the corrosion issues with aluminum tanks come from exposure to water on the outside.  I know that our tank is showing corrosion where it comes in contact with the wooden frame it sits in.  It isn't leaking, yet, but when we decided our tank needed to be pulled to be cleaned after having several filters fouled last season, we decided that with the exterior corrosion and low price for a new poly tank, replacement makes sense for us.

[Richard Usen]

I had a boat years ago that had copper gas tanks. They corroded badly where they sat on an oak board. After I soldered them I fiberglassed the outside.  Maybe the new fuel doesn’t have enough sulfur to cause a problem but the potential of having to clean up a boat after a fuel spill would give me something to think several times about. It’s one of the reasons I sold a diesel I owned and kept the A-4. My stomach hates the smell of diesel on a boat.  

[Robert Franklin]

The tank must be professionally cleaned because no matter how much fuel you remove, which can be properly disposed, you'll never get the crud.  That needs to be washed by a professional that then has access to proper disposal.  It makes a big deal of a simple process, but the environment is at stake.
 Bob Franklin

On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 2:04 PM, Dan LeBlond <dleb...@maine.rr.com> wrote:

Your fuel tank is likely made of Monel, a good grade of high copper nickel stainless, it probably is fouled with junk and bio organisms. The tank is removable as you have learned. The 30 gal monel tank on my P323 was badly fouled, I removed it through the Port cockpit seat locker without much effort and sent it to a Canadian firm through my local radiator and fuel tank repair shop. It came back polished and epoxy coated. that was in may of 2001 and I've not needed to replace a fuel filter during the regular season since. The radiator shop told me that that tenk will outlast everything else on the boat and can be re-cleaned many times. My marine surveyor did suggest replacing the galvanized steel hold down hardware with 304 stainless. and stainless steel straps.

[Richard Usen]

I cleaned a dead gas tank many years ago by filling it w/ 2 gallons of spraygun cleaner, shook it well, let it sit for a few days and repeated as necessary. I eventually removed almost three gallons of stuff. I have no idea what I did w/ the goop but probably let it evaporate to dry cans which went to the dump. This was about 30 years ago when we didn’t worry about those things. Tho, My town says its ok to let the paint cans dry and then send them out w/ the trash. Their concern is the liquid.  

 

From: pearso...@googlegroups.com [mailto:pearso...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Franklin
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 6:08 PM
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pearson ] P303 Fuel Tank Replacement

 

The tank must be professionally cleaned because no matter how much fuel you remove, which can be properly disposed, you'll never get the crud.  That needs to be washed by a professional that then has access to proper disposal.  It makes a big deal of a simple process, but the environment is at stake.
 Bob Franklin

[Dan Pfeiffer]

My 10M had the OEM tank replaced with an aluminum tank before I bought it.  Probably around '99 or '00.  My boat sat in my driveway for three seasons and developed a leak in the bottom of the tank.  Pinholes.  My theory is that there was water in the bottom of the tank sitting undisturbed for three years and that lead to the corrosion.  I pulled the tank and sanded the bottom of it to 80 grit and applied several layers of fiberglass with epoxy.  I cleaned the inside as best I could using some solvent and a swab I made from a dowel and some of that oil absorbing mat they sell at West Marine.  That was very effective for the areas I could access which was most of the lower half of the tank.  And that's where most of the crud was.  I took off the filler neck barb and the fuel gauge fitting for access.  Those were 1-1/2" holes. 

 

Alunimum is supposed to be fine for diesel tanks if it is the right type.  Mine is 5052 and my surveyor back in 2001 said that was the correct type.  It is isolated from the wood cradle and the steel mounting straps with a rubber strip.  I think a better mounting would be to have ears welded onto the sides of the tank and mount it on engine mounts.   That's what I would do if fabricating a new aluminum tank.   I would also add a lower sump with a seperate pickup tube to pull water from the tank.  Maybe about 4x4" and 1" deep.    At the least I would have a seperate pickup tube routed to the very lowest part of the tank and a good inch lower than the main pickup tube.  But I think a sump would be better and it could be repaired more easilly if it corroded from water sitting in it. 

 

I thought about plastic while pondering how to deal with the leaks.  I was intersted in having two tanks.  One about 8 gallons for primary use when day sailing and one 20 gallons to be filled for cruising and otherwise left empty.  That would keep the fuel fresher and maybe make dealing with crud easier.  Make the day tank easy to access and pull out for service.  But I fixed the aluminum tank for a few dollars and shelved the idea of dual tanks.   The repair has held up for a few sweasons now so no real long term data.  There are issues with fiberglass tanks and fuels that have alcohol in them to beware of that if you're considering a new tank.  That might be an issue for poly resins and not epoxy.  Not sure about that.  I bet the engineers at West System  would know. 

 

I have also considered insulating the fuel tank to help reduce daily temperature cycling and perhaps reduce the potential for condensation in the tank.  That is just a thought and I have not looked into it in detail. 

 

Dan Pfeiffer

 

 

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Nathan Dimock

To: pearso...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 4:11 PM

Subject: Re: [pearson ] P303 Fuel Tank Replacement

[Peter Ogilvie]

one way to get the solids out of a tank is to suspend it from the ceiling of your garage with bungee cords.  Dump a two pound coffee can full of spare fasteners into the tank and then bounce the tank on the bungee cords till you get tired then blow out the tank with compressed air.
repeat as necessary till it meets your standards of cleanliness.

Aloha
Peter Ogilvie
Pa'akai O'o, Pearson 35 #108
Too many Landrovers, some even run.

[Peter Trunfio]

Dan,

Were you able to remove the tank from the 10M through the starboard cockpit locker?

I'd like to pull mine and take it to a radiator shop for steam cleaning...but not if it means pulling the engine out to do it.

Please advise.

Thank you.

Peter M. Trunfio
s/v Annandale
Pearson 10M
City Island, NY

---

From: "Dan Pfeiffer" <d...@pfeiffer.net>

Sender: pearso...@googlegroups.com

Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 22:42:54 -0400

To: <pearso...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: pearso...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [pearson ] P303 Fuel Tank Replacement

My 10M had the OEM tank replaced with an aluminum tank before I bought it.  Probably around '99 or '00.  My boat sat in my driveway for three seasons and developed a leak in the bottom of the tank.  Pinholes.  My theory is that there was water in the bottom of the tank sitting undisturbed for three years and that lead to the corrosion.  I pulled the tank and sanded the bottom of it to 80 grit and applied several layers of fiberglass with epoxy.  I cleaned the inside as best I could using some solvent and a swab I made from a dowel and some of that oil absorbing mat they sell at West Marine.  That was very effective for the areas I could access which was most of the lower half of the tank.  And that's where most of the crud was.  I took off the filler neck barb and the fuel gauge fitting for access.  Those were 1-1/2" holes. 

 

Alunimum is supposed to be fine for diesel tanks if it is the right type.  Mine is 5052 and my surveyor back in 2001 said that was the correct type.  It is isolated from the wood cradle and the steel mounting straps with a rubber strip.  I think a better mounting would be to have ears welded onto the sides of the tank and mount it on engine mounts.   That's what I would do if fabricating a new aluminum tank.   I would also add a lower sump with a seperate pickup tube to pull water from the tank.  Maybe about 4x4" and 1" deep.    At the least I would have a seperate pickup tube routed to the very lowest part of the tank and a good inch lower than the main pickup tube.  But I think a sump would be better and it could be repaired more easilly if it corroded from water sitting in it. 

 

I thought about plastic while pondering how to deal with the leaks.  I was intersted in having two tanks.  One about 8 gallons for primary use when day sailing and one 20 gallons to be filled for cruising and otherwise left empty.  That would keep the fuel fresher and maybe make dealing with crud easier.  Make the day tank easy to access and pull out for service.  But I fixed the aluminum tank for a few dollars and shelved the idea of dual tanks.   The repair has held up for a few sweasons now so no real long term data.  There are issues with fiberglass tanks and fuels that have alcohol in them to beware of that if you're considering a new tank.  That might be an issue for poly resins and not epoxy.  Not sure about that.  I bet the engineers at West System  would know. 

 

I have also considered insulating the fuel tank to help reduce daily temperature cycling and perhaps reduce the potential for condensation in the tank.  That is just a thought and I have not looked into it in detail. 

 

Dan Pfeiffer

 

 

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Nathan Dimock

To: pearso...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 4:11 PM

Subject: Re: [pearson ] P303 Fuel Tank Replacement

That is an interesting point.  I wonder if the new ultra low sulphur diesel fuels that is now being sold in the US makes a difference?  I'd also note that our aluminum tank is going on 27 years and still doesn't leak.  From what I have heard, most of the corrosion issues with aluminum tanks come from exposure to water on the outside.  I know that our tank is showing corrosion where it comes in contact with the wooden frame it sits in.  It isn't leaking, yet, but when we decided our tank needed to be pulled to be cleaned after having several filters fouled last season, we decided that with the exterior corrosion and low price for a new poly tank, replacement makes sense for us.

 

 

--

[Robert Franklin]

Didn't someone recently say on this site that a P30 was being broken up for parts?  It would have a nice monel tank, most likely.  From the sticker on my tank, I believe they were made nearby me, maybe Westboro, MA.  I seem to recall the company was still in the metal fabrication business but not Pearson tanks.  But there must be lots of tanks around that would fit the existing frame.

Bob Franklin

[Richard Usen]

Or sail from California to Hawaii??

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yes the tank fit through the starboard locker hatch.   It was a pretty easy job to remove.  Easier if it's close to empty.

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Peter Trunfio

To: pearso...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 6:47 AM

Subject: Re: [pearson ] P303 Fuel Tank Replacement

Dan,

Were you able to remove the tank from the 10M through the starboard cockpit locker?

I'd like to pull mine and take it to a radiator shop for steam cleaning...but not if it means pulling the engine out to do it.

Please advise.

Thank you.

Peter M. Trunfio
s/v Annandale
Pearson 10M
City Island, NY

---

From: "Dan Pfeiffer" <d...@pfeiffer.net>

Sender: pearso...@googlegroups.com

Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 22:42:54 -0400

To: <pearso...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: pearso...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [pearson ] P303 Fuel Tank Replacement

My 10M had the OEM tank replaced with an aluminum tank before I bought it.  Probably around '99 or '00.  My boat sat in my driveway for three seasons and developed a leak in the bottom of the tank.  Pinholes.  My theory is that there was water in the bottom of the tank sitting undisturbed for three years and that lead to the corrosion.  I pulled the tank and sanded the bottom of it to 80 grit and applied several layers of fiberglass with epoxy.  I cleaned the inside as best I could using some solvent and a swab I made from a dowel and some of that oil absorbing mat they sell at West Marine.  That was very effective for the areas I could access which was most of the lower half of the tank.  And that's where most of the crud was.  I took off the filler neck barb and the fuel gauge fitting for access.  Those were 1-1/2" holes. 

 

....

[Jeff Griglack]

Eastwood used to (and might still) sell a kit to epoxy the inside of fuel tanks on old, restored cars.  The same should work in this situation.  You might want to check it out at http://www.eastwood.com

| Jeff Griglack                  P30  # 182

[Guy Johnson]

Peter;
I don't know what kind of engine you have on your 10M, but I pulled our A4 out of the cave with about an hours work.
 
Guy
 

---

Subject: Re: [pearson ] P303 Fuel Tank Replacement

To: pearso...@googlegroups.com
From: peter....@earthlink.net
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 10:47:42 +0000

[Peter Trunfio]

Thanks Guy.

I've no doubt I could disconnect and remove the engine in about an hour.

It's the three weeks it would take me to get it all back together and running. ;-)

PMT

---

From: Guy Johnson <guy...@hotmail.com>

Sender: pearso...@googlegroups.com

Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 07:46:55 -0400

To: pearso...@googlegroups.com<pearso...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: pearso...@googlegroups.com

Subject: RE: [pearson ] P303 Fuel Tank Replacement

[Redondo Sailor]

Thanks for all the info about P303 fuel tanks. Turns out the original tank was 5052 Alum, made by Florida Marine as some had informed me. In the end, I decided on a Moeller 19 Gal Fuel Tank. The tank had to be fitted with a Moeller Universal Electric Sending Unit w/Diesel Return to replace the installed sending unit. The old tank came out in about five hours, taking all precautions not to break anything important. As informed, the old tank came out through the lazerette. You don't have to be a contortionist to do this job, but I suppose that it would help. An hour or so to replace the sending unit and the new tank was ready to go. Since I had a sending unit now, I also purchased the Moeller Dash Mount Electric Fuel Gauge. Finally after running new hoses (except the filler hose) and filters, I had the new tank installed in another five hours or so. I suppose a younger person could have done this sooner, but at sixty-nine I don't think I did too badly. I have all the part numbers for the Moeller parts in case someone would like them and the place where I found a decent internet price.

[Nathan Dimock]

Glad to hear it worked out well!  We are really enjoying our new tank and lines, which has meant not a single fouled filter this year!

On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 4:10 AM, Redondo Sailor <satin...@mypacks.net> wrote:

Thanks for all the info about P303 fuel tanks. Turns out the original tank was 5052 Alum, made by Florida Marine as some had informed me. In the end, I decided on a Moeller 19 Gal Fuel Tank. The tank had to be fitted with a Moeller Universal Electric Sending Unit w/Diesel Return to replace the installed sending unit. The old tank came out in about five hours, taking all precautions not to break anything important. As informed, the old tank came out through the lazerette. You don't have to be a contortionist to do this job, but I suppose that it would help. An hour or so to replace the sending unit and the new tank was ready to go. Since I had a sending unit now, I also purchased the Moeller Dash Mount Electric Fuel Gauge. Finally after running new hoses (except the filler hose) and filters, I had the new tank installed in another five hours or so. I suppose a younger person could have done this sooner, but at sixty-nine I don't think I did too badly. I have all the part numbers for the Moeller parts in case someone would like them and the place where I found a decent internet price.

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