Re: Attention!! NEW Nixie tube cheater at Ebay!!!

[Dieter Waechter]

Hi!
I must warn you of another seller who offers IN-18 Nixie tubes cheap but
does never ship!!!
Ebay ID: matveynaibay
All other data: unknown
DO NOT BUY FROM HIM!!!!
I guess he is part of the Ukrain Nixie cheater mafia!!
Dieter

PS: please also note the following warnings:



----- Original Message -----
From: "Dieter Waechter" <in...@nocrotec.com>
To: "Neonixies" <neoni...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 1:29 PM
Subject: Attention!! NEW Nixie tube cheater at Ebay!!!


> Hi!
> I must warn you of another seller who offers IN-18 Nixie tubes cheap but
> does never ship!!!
> Ebay ID: petrovpavel1009
> All other data: unknown
> DO NOT BUY FROM HIM!!!!
> I guess he is part of the Ukrain Nixie cheater mafia!!
> Dieter
>
> PS: please also note the following warnings:
>
>
> Hi!
> Be aware of the following Person who sells IN-18 tubes but does not
> ship!!!
>
> Ebay ID: gennadiy.yakimovsky
> Name: Gennadiy Yakimovskiy
> City: Perm
> Street: Tumakova 95
> Country: Russian Federation
> ZIP: 615315
>
> Of course these data are fake.
>
> It looks like he is part of the cheater gang from Ukrain.
> Dieter
>
>
> And this one:
>
> Attention! Be careful - Nixie tube cheaters!
>
>
>
> Hi Nixie Friends!
>
>
>
> I must warn you of the following persons who offered me IN-18 Nixie tubes,
> which I paid, but never received.
>
> They did not answer me, although I was waiting for more than one month.
>
> And more: I saw they sell further at ebay, but do not answer any requests
> from me also if asked over Ebay.
>
> One of the gangsters called me, but now that telephone numbers are dead.
>
>
>
> The data of the persons are:
>
> Ebay ID: vogavoga
>
>
>
> Email addresses they use:
>
> pbogdal (at) gmail.com
>
> voga_voga (at) yahoo.com
>
> raul_frey (at) yahoo.com
>
> pbogdal (at) googlemail.com
>
> sales (at) vogavoga.com
>
> aleksandrar (at) ukr.net
>
>
>
> Names & Adresses they use:
>
> Raul Frey, 45 Esquire Drv., 90245 CA, USA, Phone : +1-2069059585,
> +44(0)2069059585, Fax : +1 555 3653, Webpage: http://vogavoga.com
>
> Notes:
>
> Fax number is fake. 555 prefix is always on the movies as a fake phone
> number.
>
> Main number is 206, which is a Seattle, WA phone number
>
> google maps: There is no such address as: 45 Esquire Drive, El Segundo, CA
> 90245
>
> Actually, there is not even an Esquire Drive, Blvd, Street, Ave, or Court
> in El Segundo.
>
>
>
> Registrant:
>
> Aleksandra Manilova, Poliakova 3a, flat 111, Zaporozhye, Zaporizka obl
> 69098, Ukraine, aleksandrar (at) ukr.net, Phone: +380662733023
>
>
>
> Other Names and addresses they use:
>
> Kostyantyn Shugaylo, Lenina ave.149, flat.74, 69035 Zaporizhie, Ukraine
>
> owner of flat is:
>
> Артемова Н.В Ленина Пр., дом 149, кв. 74
>
> Artemova N.V., Lenina ave.149, flat. 74
>
> Phone: +380612348803
>
>
>
> Piotr Bogdal, unkown address, Poland
>
>
>
> Unona Oliynik, 12 aprelia, 69035 Zaporizhie, Ukraine
>
>
>
> Be careful! Do not buy from them!
>
> Dieter
>
>

[AAKA (Daniil)]

He has interesting username...

"matveynaibay"

Matvey it's a regular russian name, but naibay - not means "on ebay" or something. 

In russian "naibay" means - to cheat, to screw, to deceive.

Disgusting...

Daniil.

[Mich...@aol.com]

Wow,

 

His auction ended with a buy now and immediately relisted.  A couple of times.  So fast that it doesn't even show in his selling history.

 

At only $26.50 per tube, I am even tempted to get screwed on that one.  Ok, maybe not.

 

Michail

 

 

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[jb-electronics]

There are so many people around trying to make their own Nixie tubes, if I were you I would just wait a year or so and then benefit from the "Neonixie-family" discount...

Only kidding, but I am curious how far along you other guys are on making tubes.

Jens

[Mich...@aol.com]

Yes, because we all want Nixie tubes with a single element (Our Name).

 

So, I would like to purchase 1x Nixie - Michail

 

Those come with various fonts?

 

Michail

[marcin]

The 'matveynaibay' sells IN-18's on Ebay again. Again they are dirt
cheap. But how this scam works? I understand that Ebay/PayPal would
reimburse my purchase if I didn't get the item. They would simply take
the money back from his PayPal account. So, how their scam works?
Also, Dieter: On May 16 you have warned us about this seller. But they
started at Ebay only one day earlier on May 15! How comes? What am I
missing? I almost clicked 'buy it now'. I assumed this is a new seller
who wants to build up a reputation first and that's why sells so
cheap. Then recalled this discussion.
Marcin

[Mich...@aol.com]

Paypal will only be able to take the money back if it is still in the account.

 

So, such a scam works in that he sells item.  You pay for it.  He pulls money out.  A month later, you realize you aren't getting product, so you file a claim.  Judgement is in your favor, but unfortunately, there is no money to get back.   So, you win, but get nothing.

 

The only way to be sure is:

Transfer your money out or to your wifes account.  When you pay, have it pull from a credit card.  (Then your wife can refund the money back to you - Effectively purchasing the item with a CC instead of paypal balance.)  After the above happens (claim, win, get nothing), you then file a claim with your CC company and they do a chargeback against paypal and that is how you get your money back.

 

I am speaking from Experience (not with that ebay seller).  After getting screwed the first time several years ago, I do the above for any larger purchase.

 

This is not to say that the seller could get a tracking number on a shipment to you with an empty box.  I have had this happen a few times as well.  Paypal simply denied my claim, but at least I got a couple of pretty boxes which are empty.   Many possible scams.

 

Michail

[coggs]

matveynaibay has 0 feedbacks. That should be a BIG RED FLAG not to buy. I never  buy from anyone on ebay with less than 98 positive out of every 100 feedbacks

[Adam Jacobs]

.. and even then, I always have a look at those 2 negative feedbacks. If the seller has 99.995% feedback but the handful of negs in the past month look really crooked, I won't buy. Also, at this point, I pretty much won't buy anything from a seller that is in NJ. I don't know why, but NJ is quickly turning into the Nigeria of the US.

-Adam

On 5/17/2012 11:07 AM, coggs wrote:

matveynaibay has 0 feedbacks. That should be a BIG RED FLAG not to buy. I never  buy from anyone on ebay with less than 98 positive out of every 100 feedbacks

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[Dieter Waechter]

> Also, Dieter: On May 16 you have warned us about this seller. But they
> started at Ebay only one day earlier on May 15! How comes? What am I
> missing?

Well, you see I am well-informed about that very quickly.
The reason is that I have friends in Russia and Ukrain.
And I think I know all important tube sellers there.
All of those are honest people, and they know abut the new scam coming up
with Nixie tubes.
The sellers already know that this is poison for their business and they
claim it aswell.
One of these looks like he knows "more" about that - and he immediately
informs me about new actions of the gang.
I'm counting on all honest Ukrain sellers - and I hope they will help me
stopping the gang.
It must be done from there - not from "outside".
I can't tell you more about it, since I'm not sure who is listening here.
Dieter

[marcin]

I once bought six-pack ;) of IN-18s from an Ukrainian seller with
almost no feedback. They were cheaper than regular, but not THAT
cheap. All all went good and no problems. So, thanks even more for
this timely warning. BTW funny, but the only one time I was
successfully cheated on ebay it was an Israeli seller with an
excellent feedback. I have fallen for a return taking so long that
Ebay time for opening a case lapsed. Than the seller went silent. Now
I am more careful.

[Dieter Waechter]

Hi!

> Paypal will only be able to take the money back if it is still in the
> account.

Are you sure?
I think they can take the money back.
If there is no balance in the account, and Paypal decides to refund to the
buyer, the balance of the receiver will get negative.
Am I right?

> So, such a scam works in that he sells item. You pay for it. He pulls
> money out. A month later, you realize you aren't getting product, so you
> file a claim. Judgement is in your favor, but unfortunately, there is no
> money to get back. So, you win, but get nothing.

Can anyone confirm that?

> This is not to say that the seller could get a tracking number on a
> shipment to you with an empty box. I have had this happen a few times as
> well. Paypal simply denied my claim, but at least I got a couple of
> pretty boxes which are empty. Many possible scams.

I can also not confirm that.
I have had a broken Super high voltage power supply with a small defect. I
proofed it with a video, and got back half of the money of my own estimation
of what the unit is worth with the defect.
If an empty box would have been sent (never had that) - I think Paypal surey
would refund.

The trick of the gangsters is different (see my recent emails for the
explination)
Dieter

[Mich...@aol.com]

"Are you sure?"
- Yes

 

"If there is no balance in the account, and Paypal decides to refund to the
buyer, the balance of the receiver will get negative."

- You can't have a negative balance.  Paypal is not a credit system.  That's why it is a DEBIT account.  You must have money in the account to buy something (unless you sign up for the actual Credit Card).  Think of Paypal as a DEBIT card you can buy at a grocery store - like gift card.  You have no money means you can not spend any.

"Am I right?"
- No

 

Empty box:  You think paypal would give you money back simply saying the box was empty?  Heh.  Try it.  They are not fools either.  If they started that, then everyone would be claiming empty box.  Of course ebay will mark the sellers account, so that if several claims are made against a seller, they will then look into the seller as bad and possibly do something about it.

 

Another scam issue is proof of shipping.  If you don't ship with ONLINE trackable proof (UPS tracking, USPS delivery confirmation), then you as a seller will automatically lose any claim against you.  Again, speaking from experience.  (I sell a LOT on ebay - my ebay IDs have over 16000 feedback, so I have had to deal with MANY issues).

 

Another thing to note....If UPS or USPS loses a package, meaning I ship from Seattle to Sacramento, but UPS loses the package at the hub, then the person will win the claim.  Even though I have proof of shipping and tracking to the destination city, but it didn't arrive at the house - paypal will award the buyer the money (Even though the buyer refused shipping insurance).

- To make it worse... UPS (a month later) finds the package and delivers it (this time a keyboard to Los Angeles), paypal having already found in favor of the buyer will not give the funds back to the seller.  (So, seller is out the product and the money, while the buyer will get both. - Even worse, the seller has the negative feedback from they buyer that ebay will not remove even though the buyer got his money and product.

 

Yes, I got more.

Signed - NotBitterAtPaypal

 

PS. Sorry for the long post.

 

 

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[Dieter Waechter]

Thanks Michail, that was very informative!

----- Original Message -----
From: Mich...@aol.com
To: neoni...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 11:33 PM
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Attention!! NEW Nixie tube cheater at Ebay!!!

<snip>

[Dieter Waechter]

> - You can't have a negative balance.

Michail,
it looks loke you are wrong (not sure)... but many notes at the internet
tell that a negtive balance is possible.
Look one example here:
http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=585995
Dieter

[jb-electronics]

I can confirm that, happened to me some time ago:

I used a separate bank account for all my Ebay stuff (and this was the
bank account assigned to PayPal), and I forgot to wire money there. When
I paid with PayPal for some auction the money got sent but I got a
notification that my bank account (the one I used for PayPal) was not
covered, so I had a negative balance. PayPal gave me two weeks to wire
money to my account in order to even out the negative balance.

Jens

[Mich...@aol.com]

Dieter,

 

My point is that YOU (as a seller) will NOT get the money.

 

Really, the scammer now has a negative balance?  What matters is that you are scammed the money and will NOT get it back from the fake paypal account.  And, even after you won the claim which they have no money, it is done.  If they later add money to their account, paypal doesn't come back later and say, .... look what we got for you.

"I will find a couple of such paypal emails I have received about 'winning claim, but no funds available' and forward to you." - I will forward them directly to you.

 

I can create a second email account.  aol/yahoo/gmail, etc.  Use a stolen credit card, buy a clock from you. 2 months later, a charge back happens from the CC company to paypal.  Paypal then charges against the account.  The fake paypal account is then stopped, but you can't collect because it would have been from a stolen card (chargeback) - This is why bitcoin is being saught after.  Even dwolla payments now have chargebacks (they changed their TOS because they used to say no chargebacks).

 

Michail

[Mich...@aol.com]

Issue is we are comparing legit negative balance to scam negative balance.

A scammed negative doesn't matter.   The person scammed can't collect from a scammer.

Like Jens said.  He bought ebay stuff.  Now, if he didn't wire money into his account (if he was a scammer), he still would have received the stuff he bought on ebay, and not have paid anything.  Those people would have been scammed.  Paypal would have taken the money back from them.  They would not have the product or the money.

Michail

 

Your PayPal account can have a negative balance if:

• You tried to make a payment with your bank account, but the payment didn't go through.
• There wasn't enough money in your PayPal account to cover a purchase.
• An unauthorized payment was made from your PayPal account.
• We issued a refund from your account to cover a buyer complaint.
• We reversed a payment that wasn't eligible for PayPal Seller Protection.

[Dieter Waechter]

Hi!

> My point is that YOU (as a seller) will NOT get the money.

Well, but I am the buyer....

> I can create a second email account. aol/yahoo/gmail, etc. Use a stolen
> credit card, buy a clock from you. 2 months later, a charge back happens
> from the CC company to paypal. Paypal then charges against the account.
> The fake paypal account is then stopped, but you can't collect because it
> would have been from a stolen card (chargeback) - This is why bitcoin is
> being saught after. Even dwolla payments now have chargebacks (they
> changed their TOS because they used to say no chargebacks).

Hm. I had this case also (here as a seller), and the Paypal seller
protection gave me back the money, since I sent the package registered, to a
confirmed Address, within the given time period.
But I know - you are right - if one of these 3 things do not apply, Paypal
will not give you back the money.
Dieter

[Dieter Waechter]

OK, then we got it now: "We issued a refund from your account to cover a buyer complaint. "

That is what I meant first.

Dieter

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Mich...@aol.com

To: neoni...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 12:37 AM

Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Attention!! NEW Nixie tube cheater at Ebay!!!

--

[Mich...@aol.com]

Ok - not to drag it on, we can all agree that dealing with scammers and paypal go hand in hand.  Just be careful.  There is always an angle.

 

What's even more funny about this paypal stuff is that I just got an email from a friend in Germany.  She states that she is starting her new job at Paypal in June.   Uhhhhg.  

 

Well, now I might have an IN.  Ha!  :)

 

Michail
206-920-6312

[marcin]

To add some extra data. A fiend of my, from whom I sometimes buy, once
explained to me (I hope he doesn't mind me quoting him):
'E-Bay will not release any money to me until I provide a shipping
tracking number and then I must wait until 3 days after a buyer
receives the item and only then will they release the money. If I do
not provide a tracking number then I must wait 21 days for the money
to be released. This happens because sellers in the USA must have
sales in 3 consecutive months or this restriction is placed on them.'
Obviously I have no idea it the same restrictions apply to sellers in
other parts of the world.
From the buyer's perspective: I was always hopping that when I buy
with Ebay protection program I do not need to worry if the seller is
in Tennessee or Egypt. And if they already received the money or not.
Marcin

On 18 May, 05:06, Micha...@aol.com wrote:
> Ok - not to drag it on, we can all agree that dealing with scammers and
> paypal go hand in hand.  Just be careful.  There is always an  angle.
>
> What's even more funny about this paypal stuff is that I just got an email
> from a friend in Germany.  She states that she is starting her new job  at
> Paypal in June.   Uhhhhg.
>
> Well, now I might have an IN.  Ha!  :)
>
> Michail
> 206-920-6312
>
> In a message dated 5/17/2012 4:10:13 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
>

[Dieter Waechter]

Another scam happened:
http://snipurl.com/23l2d7o

Unbelieveable! Ebay.com DOES NOTHING!!! against it!
Dieter

[kay486]

Hi there, i just recieved this email, it looks really suspicious.

vital...@yandex.ua

Hi
I took your email from the nixies forums. Iam not a cheater you can check my reputation asking about me by Dieter Waechter or Juergen Grau.
I have a good stock so I need new customers
I am a supplier from Ukraine. I can offer you many tubes of IN and IV types for reasonable prices. ( I have IN-1, IN-2, IN-3, IN-4, IN-8, IN-8-2, IN-9, IN-12, IN-13, IN-14, IN-15, IN-16, IN-17, IN-19, and many types of IV-tubes like IV-1, IV-2, IV-3, IV-4, IV-18 and other. I work with companies like PV Electronics, Nocrotec, Juergen Grau, so I have clear reputation. If you have interest in please let me know.
Best regards
Vitaly

[Instrument Resources of America]

My first instinct would be to think not, as it is just too easy to do what he suggests and to check with Dieter and Juergen. I would certainly do that, and then proceed with caution. Order small quantities and or small monetary amounts first. See if he will list on Ebay where you will have buyer protection.  I've had to use the buyer protection myself perhaps fifteen times out of the 1500 or so purchases that I have bought on Ebay in the last twelve years, always with 100% success in getting my payment back.   Ira.

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[kay486]

Well, im not going to order anything from him. Just the fact that he didnt post here or tubeclockdb.com first is really suspicious.

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[Mich...@aol.com]

Actually, I have dealt with him before as well with great results.

 

I don't like to vouch for anyone, so can't for him, but I did not have an issue.

If you were thinking of ordering, then why not ask Dieter or Juergen.  If they say good, then you are pretty assured to have no issue.

 

Michail

 

 

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[Instrument Resources of America]

Yes, that is suspicious. You could ask him to post to both places and see if he will. I would NOT do business with him unless he is willing to list on Ebay.  Ira

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[Quixotic Nixotic]

On 21 May 2012, at 20:04, kay486 wrote:

Hi there, i just recieved this email, it looks really suspicious.

vital...@yandex.ua

I hade the same email last week and I wrote to Dieter. Dieter said he'd dealt with him. He's apparently OK, if a little expensive. 

As I said to Dieter, the bitter taste of a deal gone wrong lasts a lot longer than the sweet taste of a cheap price. 

So some of you may consider dealing with a trusted person might be worth the extra spondoolicks.

John S

[Dieter Waechter]

HI!

Vitaly is a honest man!

He is also listening here at Neonixie!

Dieter

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Mich...@aol.com

To: neoni...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 9:47 PM

Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Attention!! NEW Nixie tube cheater at Ebay!!!

[kay486]

On Tuesday, May 22, 2012 4:25:39 AM UTC+1, Nocrotec wrote:

HI!

Vitaly is a honest man!

He is also listening here at Neonixie!

Dieter

Ah ok, my bad. I dont want to ruin his reputation then. The reason i had dounbts about it, was that he contacted me directly.