Re: [neonixie-l] Digest for neonixie-l@googlegroups.com - 4 Messages in 2 Topics

[westdave]

ray you did do a ponzi scam you did try to cover your losses by running a two-fer sale of kits .i bet the money just poured in to buy two FLWC at a good price ,i fell for it , as you know I got nothing .. and i AM STILL HERE, I AM AROUND TO TALK TO !

if you were reachable to the USA you would have a class action law suit on you hands , so you have doged the bullet so far?poison pen ? i don't think so ,I hope you don't come sleezing around this fine group of fellows 

with all your blue jazz.and say,all of us ,other vendors never had your kind of BS

-----Original Message-----
From: neonixie-l <neoni...@googlegroups.com>
To: Digest Recipients <neoni...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:53 pm
Subject: [neonixie-l] Digest for neoni...@googlegroups.com - 4 Messages in 2 Topics

  Today's Topic Summary

Group: http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l/topics

• GeekKlok and FLW up for grabs [3 Updates]
• Wanted - a quantity of faulty B7971s [1 Update]

 GeekKlok and FLW up for grabs

Raymond Weisling <zetali...@gmail.com> Dec 04 07:09PM -0800  

I feel it is only reasonable that I defend myself from the poison pens that
gathered.
 
The history is that my company went bankrupt, or was forced to close its
doors. These nixie product were not al all the main business We did new
product design engineering for a US-client that made health care signal
systems and they were my client (before I formed a corporation) from 1990
to 1999, with one assistant working with me. In 1999 things with them were
looking better and I had some money to invest in forming a limited
liability corporation here in Indonesia. I then hired four engineers and we
kept this client in California happy until 2005 or 2006. Then they were
bought out by Tyco International, and for about a year we kept running but
suddenly they gave us notice that they were moving everything and merging
with Simplex Time Recorder in Massachusetts, where they already had 80+
engineers. My 4-man team meant nothing to their bottom line.
 
At that point we began working with a local company that made traffic
lights and took them on as a client. After about five months of work, they
were unable to pay close to $5000 in invoices, and we had to stop. I had to
take care of my staff during this time of promises from the other company,
but when it was clear that they were unable to pay (they were cheated out
of $40,000), my staff quit one by one, because I was forced to pay their
salaries late. This is where the whole thing unraveled. Several times I
tried to recover and eek out a living with the nixie products, but with too
little capital to invest and sudden expenses from some health emergencies,
we were in a spiral. Debts piled up. I'm paying interest of 30-40% oer year
on some debts, which makes it very hard to climb out of a slimy hole.
 
I'd love to pay everyone back and I never had any intention to cheat or
defraud anyone ever. (Someone said hundreds of customers who didn't get
products, but the total is probably about 50-70.)
 
As for loss of sales data and no loss of engineering materials, the
engineering materials were on two old Macintosh computers, one of which is
still working at age 12. The sales stuff was in a PC Windows machine that
got hit by lightning surge, in a different part of the house, quite removed
from the other. We had the old Zetalink office in a separate garage, and
that is where I put kits tohether, did assembly of units and packed orders
for shipping. That's where both telephone and electric power lines entered
the premises. The engineering files in my Mac were in a second floor
bedroom converted to an office, quite separated, and protected with a good
surge protector. (The adjoining room had some non-nixie things and that's
the room where a whole wall collapsed in the May 2006 earthquake, more ton
a ton of debris was all over the contents. That earthquake was only 5.9
magnitude, but killed about 6000 people (on my own Dwelling Unpreparedness
Index (DUI) it was the third worst worldwide earthquake since 1945).
 
I just want to see that these products continue on and can help pay off
some of my local debts where interest is so high. A hospital project coming
up may provide enough funds for refunds to people, but the banking details
for it have been delayed for six months or more. I just don't want to cheat
anyone, never did intentionally, and certainly have no interest in doing it
again. Bad Karma.
 
I hope that the bitter people can release their poison. They harbor ill
feelings, so they live with that poison. Learn to forgive, very powerful
medicine. I am very sorry for injuring so many through the mess I went
through.
 
Very Best Wishes....Ray

 

[Shane Ellis]

How many of you got an e-mail from Ray after you bought a kit or clock, telling you what happened?  Or that you weren't getting what you paid for?  He gladly took, and kept the money, and ran.  

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[Nick]

Well, I paid for and received (in about 4 weeks) the two kits I ordered.

However, since then I've built several of Pete's very nice kits and did the kit part ordering for some of the UK & European customers. Pete's clocks are far more functional and use modern components... I also have a GPS-disciplined Jeff Thomas/Pete Hand clock that SWMBO absolutely loves...

The world has demonstrably moved on...

[Jeff Thomas]

On Wednesday, December 5, 2012 8:50:08 AM UTC-7, Mimewar wrote:

How many of you got an e-mail from Ray after you bought a kit or clock, telling you what happened?  Or that you weren't getting what you paid for?  He gladly took, and kept the money, and ran.  

There's a few of us out there. I was surprised at Ray's admission to "50-70" orders undelivered.

It appears we have Ray's attention.

Hello Ray.

Hopefully I can help provide some insight into the damage to the members of the neonixie-L forum, and the (formerly) eager prospective customers of your products.

As the founder of the neonixie-L; you were held to a high standard. After all, it was you who put forth the effort to contact and attract many techs and tinkers, following your establishing the original Yahoo list. Your guidance and support of the group helped in developing many new ideas that eventually found their way to both hardware and software. Some in one-off projects, and others into volume commercial products.  Mine were influenced as well. You were highly respected.

So, these forum members and others were always eager whenever when you had something to offer.

Many of the members understood that you had some financial difficulties. An expat living in a place where even reliable internet was a challenge at times.

I'm certain that if you had put out a request for financial help, that many members of the forum would have generously helped. No questions/strings attached.

And so I thought I was helping to a degree when you'd approached me to sell a new variation on your designs.
I'd been busy with life and work, and was inactive with anything neonixie related.  And later discovered there were already some delivery problems brewing.

At the same time I'd sent you money for your products, I had an opportunity surface to purchase a *large* quantity of B7971 nixie tubes.  I thought, hey -perhaps I could help Ray move a few hundred of his kits by working as a US based distributor for the nixie tubes.  I'll approach him after I receive the clocks, and tell him the good news.
I was doing OK, it was a chunk of change, though eventually I'd recover it by selling them.

The clocks never arrived.  And now I was sitting on a few thousand B7971 tubes.   I was gutted.

Rumors circulated in the forum membership that you'd deleted some critical messages from members/customers who'd not received their kits.

Complaints began appearing on the forum. I posted one too.  One early member even defended you, who coincidentally, had not sent you any money.
It was almost unbelievable that Ray, of all folks, would intentionally accept money and not deliver. Some of the members considered you a trusted friend. Myself included.

Other members took it even worse. Some felt betrayed. And it wasn't the money.

And then you surfaced again in '08 to sell a few clocks on ebay.  Wow.
A few more complaints were posted to neonixie-L about these ebay sales. Even as an absentee owner, the neonixie-L forum membership had been rotting to some degree because of your actions. A new victim complaint would still surface now and then.

Later, the list was moved to Google under new ownership. Some of the early original members/victims joined. They'd all moved on, although some are not as trusting as they once were.

It appears you opened some old wounds by coming here to solicit bids to sell your FLW / GeekKlok IP. And stating that you had lost your undelivered customer list (indicating those funds will not be used to make the customers whole) tends to suppress any empathy from the remaining forum members who held you in high regard.

I see Pete Hand had posted. That's a rare event. It's nice to know you did eventually ship his kit.

It could be difficult to sell a tainted product, even with a historical value. The new owner might have some 'splainin' to do if they surface here.

Best of Luck to you Ray.

Jeff