Succcess with taulman3d nylon / Replicator 1

[BTHOON]

Just wanted to share this with you all.

My son uses a nebulizer for his meds.  After years of use, the nipple broke off.   The nipple can be subject to a lot of lateral force, and I really didn't think ABS (the plastic that broke in the first place) was a good choice.  I designed a part to replace it in Tinkercad (https://tinkercad.com/things/2UYPMyED7Ez-nebulizer-nipple) and printed a test in ABS.   After verifying the fit of the hose, I reprinted in the Taulman nylon  on some blue painters tape that I cleaned with alcohol.  

I printed 100% infill, 1 shell at 245C and had poor results.  There was a lot of extra nylon oozing out.   Dropping the temperature down to 238 solved the problem and the resulting print was fantastic.

There was a little warping on the bottom of the part, and I'm going to be very interested in a better solution than the painters tape that doesn't require a big change to the bed, but the painters tape did the trick for this small part.

The only issue with the print was that the interior hole was a bit narrowed by a little oozing.   The FANTASTIC (I was giddy) part was that I was able to VERY easily drill the part out, leaving a perfect hole in the middle and no mess whatsoever.

I cleaned out the depression where the nipple was inset, placed the new nipple in, and back filled with Sugru to ensure a good seal as the air pressure coming out of the device is enough to pop out many fixes rather easily.

I've attached photos of the result, and am VERY pleased with the Taulman nylon.   The nylon extruded easily, did not seem to tax the extruder at all, and makes parts so strong that it takes a lot of force to deform them even in a vice.

Hope this  interests someone!

[Darrell jan]

Cool! 

Looking forward to seeing more!

[Clinton Hoines]

Very nice print. What layer hieght and speed did you use? I have read it prints without warping on wood, at least that is what I read at one point. I just got my filament yesterday so haven't had time to play yet. :)

 

Clinton

[BTHOON]

I sliced at .2mm and 60mm/s using latest sailfish firmware.

I've heard that about the wood as well, but I'm trying to find something that will require the least time to swap out / re level. Im sure someone will find an awesome unusual solution soon!

[Clinton Hoines]

Yep lets hope. :)

 

Ok so about 1/2 the speed or a bit less than PLA or ABS then, good starting point thanks.

 

Clinton

[Adan Akerman]

Hi Taulman,

Quick question about the spool and how best to use it: I haven't been able to work with it much yet, but in my little test prints I'm finding the spool will, if left alone, soon come to a point where it binds and becomes much harder to feed.

I've tried it lying flat on the floor by the printer, then pierced with a dowel, free-spinning on the back of the Rep1 where spools usually go.

I do love the spool's design, assuming it can feed well. The small amount of material used and the resistance to accidental unspooling are great.

And wow, I love the nylon prints! What a great material, thanks for all your work to bring it to us.

Nice print, BTHOON. Keeping a nebulizer alive is an awesome tale for Taulman and Sugru both.

Adan

On Sunday, December 30, 2012, taulman3D wrote:

Congratulations, on an excellent print!  We’re getting all kinds of medical related calls from clinics to hospitals that want to use 618.  Along the same lines as you, we got a call from a hospital in Mexico that had a sterilizer with an aluminum multi-port manifold.  Long story short, the 1/8” gasket had long since given away and they were not sure of quality.  They wanted to have one printed to see if it would stand up to the temp and pressure, otherwise, they were shut down waiting on a CNC house …..Printed by a local 3D Shop, with a Rep 1 1.75mm @230c 618.  Printed to a small slat of bass wood.  Been in use now for a week and no concerns yet.  Again, excellent use of 618 and we wish the best for you and your son.

taulman

On Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:19:24 PM UTC-6, BTHOON wrote:

Just wanted to share this with you all.

My son uses a nebulizer for his meds.  After years of use, the nipple broke off.  

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[Adan Akerman]

taulman,

Thanks so much for the response. That is helpful, yes.

Best,

Adan 

On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 3:35 PM, taulman3D <taul...@gmail.com> wrote:

Adan, First thank you for your great comments about 618.  With the release of 1.75mm 618, we’ve gotten around 70+ emails from rep1 and a few rep2 users with lots of comments about materials and how easy 618 extrudes.  Most of these are business owned and run by technicians or CNC shop personnel.  With the release of the smaller 1.75mm, most shops are telling us they simply use either our hub or a design of their own and hang the spool on an axle over their printers rather than use the rear holders.  The line is progressively wound on a master spool and then offloaded to the container you see.  This insures a progressive de-spool.  About 5 shops and other customers have reported that their line arrived rather jumbled and we can only attribute this to vibration in shipping.  With these reports, we have started to package the line in the boxes with more packing material to try and “press” the spool shells a bit more to help eliminate the shipping vibration affects.   Hope this helps, and again, we thank you for your great comments on 618.
taulman

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[Carsten]

Congratulations, great print. Just ordered a pound to try it out once my Replicator2 arrives... hopefully this week.

On Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:19:24 PM UTC-6, BTHOON wrote:

[Cymon]

So cool I had to post about this: http://joesmakerbot.blogspot.com/2012/12/fixing-nebulizer-with-new-materials.html

[Lincoln K]

That's great!  One question though.  Do we know if after going through the parts of the 3d printer that melt it, is an item food safe?

If not, would it not be a good idea to use it for this or other medical applications?

[Clinton Hoines]

I finally got time to try printing nylon. :)

I found for me it prints really well at the speed and layer height you listed. I went down to 235 deg as I was getting a bit of stringing at 238deg and printed on my glass plate with hairspray at 75 deg. The 2 parts I printed were actually hard to remove from the bed so sticking is not an issue so far. Want to try a larger part and see if I get the same hold/no curling.

 

Clinton

On Sunday, 30 December 2012 17:54:14 UTC-7, BTHOON wrote:

[Adan Akerman]

Hi Clinton,

What make/model of hairspray did you use? I found that the Garnier Fructis Bamboo Nuclear Hold (thanks, Hammerhead :-) didn't seem to hold the nylon well at all. A sheet of beech worked well, though the wood fibers adhere to the print after removal. Also, a sheet of wood that starts flat becomes significantly less flat after a few heating and cooling cycles and extended time at temperature. I'd love to be able to print nylon on glass.

Many of the pictures taulman posted on Thingiverse show him printing on perfboard. I'm not super thrilled about that option but I'd take it over wood for many applications.

Adan

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[Adan Akerman]

Oh, also: I found I had to respool my nylon (from this first spool, at least) onto an empty MBI spool. Hopefully it was just a shipping anomaly, as taulman indicated. The packaging is pretty sweet, I'd love to be able to use it as-is.

[Clinton Hoines]

Using the same hairspray as Hammerhead is since I'm in Canada it's hard to find any of the other brands that seem to work.It is the #5 Ultra Strong hold and flex. Are you using enough? I found I had to use at least 3 coats to start and a coat every other print with any filament used. And how hot are you running the bed? Mine worked great at my first starting point which as 75 deg.

 

Clinton

[Adan Akerman]

That may be it: I've just been using one (thick) coat. It's more than enough with ABS. How long do you let it dry between coats?

I tried at 85, 95, 105, 115°C. I also used pretty serious "first layer squish," especially after I found that the nylon is very resistant to stripping out. Have you noticed that? You can pretty much obstruct it, with the nozzle dragging across the build platform, but it will still be ready to go as soon as it's clear of the obstruction. Definitely a different kind of material; with ABS that kind of thing would be insta-strip.

Thanks, that gives me something to try. 

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[Eric Cheung]

That's very encouraging news!

I just got my rep2, and my 3 spools of nylon will soon arrive (as soon as usps lets me :))

Like many, I'm looking to print practical/production parts with it.

I know I will be doing my fair share of testing. Is there a repository of results vs. settings for nylon 618? Would love to hear your experience and advice.

I will come back with results as soon as possible!

[Adan Akerman]

There are some gleanings to be had from the table here: http://taulman3d.com/testers.html  Also the links to the testers at the top.

A Master Wiki Of Maker Findings And Guidance will be nice when it arrives :-)

You'll be printing without a heated bed, I guess, but hopefully people will find substrates on which that's possible... or other workarounds that aren't too arduous. 

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[j.pickens]

I agree with this.  I'm not too worried about using the Nylon for various, even food-contact casual uses.

However, an inhalation nebulizer is a "worst case" scenario for testing this type of material.

If anything at all is wrong with the re-heated Nylon, using it to perform in contact with a system for human inhalation is asking for trouble.

Could be as simple as cat dander from the family pet being sandwiched into the Nylon during filament storage or extrusion and creating an alergic reaction.

Or even some component of the medicine in the nebulizer reacting with the Nylon.

I'm no big government supporter, but there are sometimes issues which something like an FDA is good for.

[Martin]

I've been playing around with the Taulman 618 nylon the last few days -- it really feels like the future, if we can get the warping issues solved.  Small objects print great on painters tape and really feel and look like injection molded parts.  The filament seems to be extremely consistent in diameter, so the finish is beautiful once you get your E-steps tuned and increase the retraction for the stringier filament.  

Even moderately sized items though, such as a large herringbone gear for a Wade's extruder, have huge warping forces.  Enough to actually peel blue tape up off the bed.  I've got an order of different substrates left to test, including nylon sheeting.  So far, the best has been some random plywood I had lying around and cut down to fit on top of the build platform.  By lowering the z height and smashing the first layer in, it sticks pretty well.  When you take the item off, there are even some small wood fibers stuck into the first layer.  The bad news is that ... it can still warp.  There really is a lot of force at play.  And with the thick wood, there doesn't seem to be much point to trying to use the heated base plate.  I'll try a nylon sheet next, but I suspect that might be limited use, given that the nylon filament may bond permanently to that. 

Beyond that, my only complaint is that I don't like the packaging.  The idea is that the package is the spool itself -- and it's a cool idea -- but the filament binds and has to be fixed every meter or so.  Not great for an unattended print with (relatively) expensive filament.

[Martin Galese]

So a day of fiddling around with this, and I think I found my favorite material to print the Taulman 618 nylon onto --- a sheet of Nylatron (nylon with a doping agent).  I'm using this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0070ZF8CI/ref=oh_details_o02_s01_i00.  Much like acrylic, it seems to stick but still release when you get the z height right.  Time will tell if there is degradation from multiple prints, but so far so good.  

And the best part is that I haven't had any warping, even on a cold bed.  I'm going to try a warp torture test later, but it is already much better than blue tape, or even wood, has been.

I might try a thicker sheet next (1/4"?), particularly if it looks like the material holds up to repeated prints.  Right now, I've got a thin sheet that I'm holding down with many clips, basically all the way around the plate.

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Martin Galese

[Michael Buffington]

Is this the same material sometimes known as Polyamide?

Here's an example: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000MAJ15S

I'd love finding a super easy solution to printing the 618 nylon without warping. I've tried blue tape, a heated bed with kapton tape, a sheet of bass wood, everything except some quality poplar or perfboard. A quarter inch slab of something that could be used every time with minimal issues seems ideal.

On related note - I'd placed an order from Taulman for the 1.75mm 618 went it went on sale last month. On Jan 1st I began to wonder when I'd be seeing it. I sent an email to Taulman asking if I needed to be concerned at all or if there was simply a backlog of orders.

I got a reply literally minutes later saying that my order had somehow fallen through the cracks and that they'd send it out right away. That alone would have been great to hear. But it gets better: because it hadn't shipped on time, they decided to triple the amount I'd ordered, for free. That's seriously impressive.

It arrived yesterday - fully a week before I was expecting it, three times as heavy at that.

[Eric Cheung]

Just got my 1.75mm 618 in the mail and tested it some. I have a Replicator 2, NO heated plate...

1. using default temperature of 230 leads to poor self-bonding -> delaminates -> now using 245

2. extremely difficult to have the base stick to the build plate (I only have the acrylic plate that came with the bot, tried with and without blue tape). The thermal warpage keeps peeling the base off. -> Trying super-large raft to alleviate the problem.

3. The cooling fan is cooling the printed plastics too fast, leading to a lot of warping. -> went into repg and turned off the cooling fan (under Cool).

Overall, it's a nice step forward with home-level 3d printing. Thermal warping and build-plate adhesive have been my biggest problem (I have no heated plate). I'm exploring ways to make it work without ultimately needing a heated plate mod.

Next will try perfboard for build plate.

:)

[Infinityplusplus]

I have had luck by mixing wood glue with water at a 50 50 ratio and painting it on a layer of blue tape. If its a real thin layer it will dry relatively quick and leave a sticky print surface. This is on my unheated bed. I have not had a lot of time to test so far but I did print  a spiral wheel without any warping, the biggest thing I have tried so far. Without the paste I had it unstuck from the bed and start a huge blob, luckily I was watching. 

[Adan Akerman]

That's very interesting, especially because wood glue is PVA! (or some of it, at least). There have been previous suggestions that nylon is a better match for co-printing with PVA as a water-soluble support than ABS is. We may be getting close to that promise of single-print-gearboxing.

I've still experienced warping, even with triple coats of the Nuclear Hold Garnier Fructis spray on heated glass. I printed an iPhone case that went super-warpy after the walls started building. I'm reprinting it now with an exaggerated raft (designed-in, solid material 0.4mm / 2 layers thick), so far so good.

I'll try the wood glue option next. I have a great foam roller for quickly and evenly distributing it (useful for veneering, see here: http://www.veneersupplies.com/products/Veneer-Glue-Roller.html). I know Titebond II (my go-to wood glue) will dry very quickly at that kind of thickness. Maybe even quicker than the hairspray.

Anyone tried the sugar water option yet?

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[Darrell jan]

I suppose worst case would be printing up syringes to use for insulin injections. Someday, though...

[Martin Galese]

The power of nylon to warp is very impressive.  I printed a longer piece onto 1/16 inch Nylatron the other night.  The good news is that it stuck very well, and yet popped off when I put a tool underneath it.  The bad news is that the warping forces were so strong that it stretched and distorted the Nylatron sheet!

I'm going to try again with a much thicker sheet and see how that works.

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Martin Galese

[Adan Akerman]

We're kind of fighting nature here, aren't we? As long as these materials have a hot bottom and a cold top there will be this desire to warp, right? 

If I understand correctly, the main reason for heating the build plate is to improve adhesion between plate and print. If we could adhere to the plate without the heating, wouldn't that help reduce warping? When a Stratasys machine has a heated chamber and unheated build plate, I can see the benefit of keeping the whole model at a more uniform temperature. 

Is it time for one of us to blow a hair dryer on a print as it progresses and see if it helps reduce warping? Has this been done long ago?

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[delsydsoftware]

Maybe the parts from a cheap food dehydrator could be used to keep the chamber warm enough. They have good thermostats and are relatively efficient. The one I have can reach 160F/ 71C. I'm not sure how hot the Stratasys chambers get, but that would probably help out a lot.

[Adan Akerman]

In a thread a few months ago someone stated 70C for the stratasys chamber temp: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/makerbot/hRo0BfABED4/US4IuMM3EtMJ Interestingly, in that we were also discussing the prosumer / fuss-free nature of the soon-to-come Rep2 based on the marketing materials we'd all just heard. Fun to look back on that.

Anyway, yes: sounds like a food dehydrator could be good for this. There was previous discussion of getting one for filament storage. I never pulled the trigger on it at that point, but now it sounds like there are a couple of good arguments for it. 

What make/model do you have? How loud is it?

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[delsydsoftware]

I have a Nesco FD-80, which is a pretty nice little unit. It's definitely not getting turned into a chamber heater.  :)

http://www.nesco.com/products/Dehydrators/Dehydrators/FD-80-Snackmaster-Square-Dehydrator-and-Jerky-Maker/session_620aa83f21a5/

But, it's pretty quiet. The fan doesn't get too loud on it, especially compared to the usual Replicator fan noise.

[Adan Akerman]

Looks very nice indeed. I'm thinking I'll go a little cheaper; this one has half the power but is a third the price (and ships free with Prime). http://www.amazon.com/Nesco-American-Harvest-FD-37-Dehydrator/dp/B003I4F7AS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1357575637&sr=8-1&keywords=dehydrator  

Hopefully has that same Nesco SilentDry technology you've described :-) My Replicator got a lot quieter after I put the Orion fans on there. But if a little more fan noise gets me warp-free printing, I'm all for it.

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[hellphish]

I've been using the 618 nylon in 3mm for a few weeks now in my modified TOM. I'll throw my observations into the mix.

The filament: measured exactly 3mm in several places across a 1.5ft strip. Perfectly round. Seriously impressive!

The packaging: No problems here with 3mm filament. I cut a hole in the middle, stuck it on my spool holder, then half-stuck a spool on the holder to "cap" it and prevent the 618 spool from slipping off. No tangling or binding.

Build Platform. I've tried blue tape, which peeled up with the 618. I tried hairspray on heated and unheated glass (Aquanet super extra hold unscented) and had no luck getting it to stick. I went to Michaels and got a piece of birch for less than two dollars. Clipped it on instead of glass, adjusted my Z offset and away I went. Got good adhesion, but terrible warping. I tried forming some volcano bags (similar to oven bags) to enclose the printer, but I don't think I did a good enough job sealing it in.

Temperature and speed: Easily extruded at 238, but I was getting poor layer lamination, squeezing the "grippy tumbler" resulted in lots of little bracelets instead of http://www.thingiverse.com/image:195869  I tried upping the temperature between 240 and 254 (my firmware's max I guess, also DONT DO THIS unless you know what you are doing. Many extruders can put out toxic gasses at those temps (if the extruder is ACTUALLY reaching those temps)) and slowing down to about 20mm/sec perimeters and am still struggling to get good lamination (well, struggling against delamination. I am expecting more from this than other plastics, mostly based on the pics I've seen.)

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[Steven Castoe]

Ive had good success gluing cheap multipurpose paper to my platform. I suspect inkjet 25% rag paper would work wonders as its more porous. I apply some abs acetone concoction to the paper with my preval sprayer then as my bed reaches 80deg the acetone vapors off and I squeegee out the excess. I keep a 2x2 page in the corner of my buildplate pretty easy to go between materials without retrofitting my platform and messing with z values.

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[Steven Castoe]

Regular multipurpose printer paper peels up pretty well and when im too lazy abs sticks nicely too

[Adan Akerman]

Eric, that sounds like a great idea. I agree, it might be a good balance of properties.

I tested wood glue (Titebond II) on glass last night and it worked okay. I'd rate it as slightly better than a triple coat of Garnier Fructis Nuclear Hold, but the part (iPhone case) still warped a little in the corners. I'm holding out hope for this food dehydrator idea. Should have it tomorrow.

On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 3:16 AM, Eric Brian Smith <xy3d...@gmail.com> wrote:

Has anyone tried printing on bamboo flooring instead of wood?  I have a Rep2 so no heated platform, but folks that have radiant floor heating can use bamboo flooring which will not warp or distort.  And it seems to me that the grain and strength is super strong and will not bind to the nylon upon removing it.

I hope it works!

Eric

On Sunday, December 30, 2012 10:19:24 AM UTC-8, BTHOON wrote:

Just wanted to share this with you all.

My son uses a nebulizer for his meds.  After years of use, the nipple broke off.   The nipple can be subject to a lot of lateral force, and I really didn't think ABS (the plastic that broke in the first place) was a good choice.  I designed a part to replace it in Tinkercad (https://tinkercad.com/things/2UYPMyED7Ez-nebulizer-nipple) and printed a test in ABS.   After verifying the fit of the hose, I reprinted in the Taulman nylon  on some blue painters tape that I cleaned with alcohol.  

I printed 100% infill, 1 shell at 245C and had poor results.  There was a lot of extra nylon oozing out.   Dropping the temperature down to 238 solved the problem and the resulting print was fantastic.

There was a little warping on the bottom of the part, and I'm going to be very interested in a better solution than the painters tape that doesn't require a big change to the bed, but the painters tape did the trick for this small part.

The only issue with the print was that the interior hole was a bit narrowed by a little oozing.   The FANTASTIC (I was giddy) part was that I was able to VERY easily drill the part out, leaving a perfect hole in the middle and no mess whatsoever.

I cleaned out the depression where the nipple was inset, placed the new nipple in, and back filled with Sugru to ensure a good seal as the air pressure coming out of the device is enough to pop out many fixes rather easily.

I've attached photos of the result, and am VERY pleased with the Taulman nylon.   The nylon extruded easily, did not seem to tax the extruder at all, and makes parts so strong that it takes a lot of force to deform them even in a vice.

Hope this  interests someone!

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[Eric Cheung]

Just as a quick update for my rep2 (turned off cooling fan):

I have been printing on blue tape using mega-rafts, a quarter-sized round solid base held on, and a large rim-like structure (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:34923) also held on. Zero warping on both.

Last night I tried to print a solid ellipse base about 50mm in the length direction. The raft held on, but the base of the part peeled the raft apart (the top of the raft stuck on the base, the bottom of the raft stuck on blue tap, the raft disintegrated).

I'm not sure if I'm at a dead end with the rafting approach. As the linear dimension gets bigger, the peeling moment gets higher. Even if the raft has enough adhesion to the build plate, eventually the strength of the raft itself became insufficient and disintegrates...

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--
Chi Ho Eric, Cheung
Aeronautics and Astronautics Engineering

[Eric Cheung]

Bought a perfboard from Radioshack. Tried printing on both sides (slightly different surfaces), both peeled off.

The holes are visibly filled with plastic, but apparently did not help with sticking...

[Adan Akerman]

That's disappointing to hear. I'd been holding that option in the back of my mind as, "well, the bottom will be ugly but at least it will hold." Or maybe not. I imagine there's a variety of perfboard constructions, using different resins for the matrix and different types of glass fiber? Maybe that influences results. Or maybe you can spray perfboard with hairspray. If in doubt, hairspray. Hmm.

My new dehydrator should arrive today. I'll be eager to see how it works if I use it to elevate the chamber temperature. I'm thinking I should heat the chamber to whatever temp is safe for the motors, then set the build platform to that same value. 

Anyone know off hand a safe maximum temperature for the motors? Is the 70°C they use for Stratasys machines overly hot? It seems like it. I've blocked the holes leading down to the control board (now drawing its cooling air from outside) so hopefully this won't increase risk of its burning out.

On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 8:54 AM, Eric Cheung <cch...@gmail.com> wrote:

Bought a perfboard from Radioshack. Tried printing on both sides (slightly different surfaces), both peeled off.

The holes are visibly filled with plastic, but apparently did not help with sticking...

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[Clinton Hoines]

The Stratasys machines place there motors outside the build/heated chamber for this very reason, no idea what the max temp is for them but I doubt they will last very long in a high temp enviroment.

 

Clinton

[Adan Akerman]

Some have reported to this group successful operation in super-hot locations. But no word on machine or component longevity. 

On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Clinton Hoines <c2ho...@gmail.com> wrote:

th

[funmakerBart]

Received today 1.75nylon.

After some quick test I decided to print with Nylon the PLA way: so with hairspray on the aluminium platform @55 degrees, the two fans redirected to cool the print, as well an extra 120mm fan to cool even more. The extrusion temp @ 220 degrees (was meant to be @230), but seems to be no problem.

Just printed the evil ducky in 25mm and 50mm. 

Sliced in Kisslicer @ 80mm/s 3 shells, no infill, no support and 0.1mm layer height. Because of no infill and support there are a few spots where the overhang was to big to connect extrusions. I tweaked the diameter to 1.7mm, so a little over-extrusion resulting

Nylon seems very forgiving when extruding. With this object I had absolutely no warping. With some test I had warping with a higher HPB temp, so I now try to cool the printed part as fast as possible to avoid temperature warping. It could be with other objects and 100% infill the result is different.

It seems to me it's quite nice to have a product added to print with. It's certain different in use as being flexible and strong and translucent.

I was planning to use Nylon for the minimal MK8 replacement, but I think it's to flexible for that.

I'm curious how it works with PLA or ABS as support material. Dissolve PLA with Caustic Soda and ABS with PUR-cleaner, chloroform or acetone.

I found it difficult to use PVA as support because of the little attaching resulting with PLA and ABS

The 25mm duck:

and in 50mm:

[Andy]

In one of the Stratasys patent diagrams , it showed a flexible accordion like material over the top of print volume.

It seems like it would be possible to attach something like this to the XY gantry beams, and fully enclose the print volume.  Hah, what if we print each of the 5 sides with Taulman nylon,   modeling in the accordion shape to each side so it collapses and expands without kinks.  One could attach long thin strips of ceramic insulation material (the stuff around the hot end heating block) to the inside or outside surface to prevent heat transfer.  Each strip would be the same width of each accordion rectangle so it can still expand/compress.  Our motors, endstops, and rubber belts would be outside of the heated chamber.

Might be difficult to monitor a print though :(

-Andy

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[Adan Akerman]

I like the idea of an accordion enclosure! That could be pretty sweet. And totally: taulman nylon would be a fine way to do that. I printed some tiny single-line cups, like little thimbles, and they were super flexible. Making an accordion that way would work great.

Maybe once things get more reliable we won't need to monitor prints quite so much...

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[John Driggers]

All of the Nema17's I've played with are rated for an 80c temperature rise, at ambient between -20c and 50c.  I don't know enough about your toy to know what else you are enclosing and therefore heating, but I suspect you could try 70c safely from a motor standpoint. 

I've got two spools of 618 just waiting for me to have time to sit down and play with 'em.  I'm thinking I'll make this time this weekend regardless!

[66tbird]

I agree, I've have other machines with 17's and 23's that I've worked the motors so hot you could spit and sizzle. You learn quickly not to touch. How long they would last in a long term high duty cycle environment I don't know but I've got probably 500 hours over a five year span on my mill and it the same as it was when I bought it used from a wood carving shop.

I'm one of the ones that runs my Rep1 in a hot shop. Last summer when I'd boot up the temps were basically 50C and my running temp on the unused extruder was 75C+.  I have no hesitations in tightening my covers seals and taking it up a few notches. The best prints I've even have were on the hottest days of the summer. That shop was 140F at the bot and 160+ at the ceiling. I've directed airflow over the transistor on the MB and so far all is well.

I'm looking to keep the printed object as equally hot as possible.   I'v seen the threads where others have had de-lamination and curl/lifting issues and until the cool weather I never had it while enclosed. So I'm putting this 618 away for awhile.

[BTHOON]

I am now getting my best results with Adan's glass, Aquanet, a 55c build plate and  237c extrusion.  I just had 5 consecutive prints come out perfectly with no warping AT ALL. 

So cool!

[Adan Akerman]

That's great to hear. Would you be willing to share images of the successes? I'm curious about the various geometries and how they impact warping.

Do you have any kind of venting down onto your print, or do you have a more or less stock setup on your Rep1 extruder fans?

--
 
 

[Eric Cheung]

Will try glass + hair spray next.

Update with perfboard:

First of all, they aren't flat.

Second, for the part to hold, I had to print a beefy raft with huge excessive flow so the first layer can have a good grip of the holes. That's pretty wasteful. Still, then, the base could peel off the raft.

[BTHOON]

I gave away all my prints at the Makerbot party last night in LV, but will print more asap for sharing!

[Adan Akerman]

Sounds like a worthy way to use 'em up :-) I'll look forward to future postings.

Is the original nebulizer mod still holding up?

--
 
 

[BTHOON]

Perfectly! 

[Adan Akerman]

Good to hear! I was worried about its build direction (layers perpendicular to long axis). But the nylon does seem to be very resistant to delamination.

--
 
 

[j.pickens]

Instead of heating the entire printer, what about mounting some small infrared heat bulbs to the sides of the print bed?

They could be directed to maintain higher temperatures above the platform of the thing as the layers build up.

[AdanA]

Right, food dehumidifier update: I got a chance to try it this afternoon.

I cut a piece of flat cardboard the same shape as my left side drandolph acrylic panel. I then cut a round hole with four notches matching the notches in the lid of my new dehydrator. Then I yanked the cap (where all the magic happens) out of the dehydrator and put it into the side panel. 

It's basically a hair dryer: it pulls air from the outside and shoots it out slots on the inside. I felt it with my hand over the slots and it was warm but not as hot as a hair dryer. I decided to give it a shot and see what happened. 

I was monitoring temperature with the thermometer recommended by garycrowell: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:25564 That's where I went wrong: I watched it like a hawk to be sure the internals didn't get too hot. It went up fast, then stopped at 46°C. I watched, watched... no change. Then I reached in to move the thermometer to a different location. My arm bumped one of the X axis shafts and I thought I'd burned myself. At 46?? Then I remembered I could also be looking at the inactive extruder's readout. 76!! Crap. Apparently the other thermometer is meant for human conditions and doesn't go above 46C. So I cut that print short and took all the panels off as fast as possible.

Annnnd... after all that, the print peeled. Worse, actually, than the previous one. This was a test piece (long and thin, 10x10x150mm, a good test for warping), nylon onto several coats of Garnier Fructis Nuclear 5 at 110C. I should also mention I applied thermal past between the heater board and the aluminum platform last weekend, so that's probably a hotter 110 than it used to be.

I think the hairspray and nylon both are too hot at that temperature to resist the print's separation from the build platform. Looking at the gap between I see a lot of tiny threads. I think it's the hairspray, softened with heat, melting and letting go.

After that I reduced platform temp drastically. Nearly complete test print at 60C was followed by a complete print at 55C. I'm printing a new iphone case now at 50C (extruding at 245C). Here's hoping.

Aha! I just saw your message, j.pickens. That's a good idea, would definitely help reduce the baking of the internals.

On Thursday, January 10, 2013 3:15:03 PM UTC-5, AdanA wrote:

Good to hear! I was worried about its build direction (layers perpendicular to long axis). But the nylon does seem to be very resistant to delamination.

On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 3:08 PM, BTHOON

Perfectly! 

[Andrew Russell]

I wonder if the peeling happened because of a large swing in air temperature when you removed the sides, or was it already peeling before you did that?

I use those same thermometers for watching my internal bot temp as well as the humidity in my filament storage bags.

I've noticed they never indicate lower than 16% humidity, even when I've freshly cooked the silica gel in the oven and its the only thing in the bag w/ the thermometer.  Looks like they have pretty small windows of measurement, damn.

-Andy

--
 
 

[Adan Akerman]

Alas, it was peeling well before I realized how freaking hot it was in there and shut it down. It made it about ten minutes into what, when it finally completed later, was a 45 minute print.

Yeah... boo, we should get more for the $9 investment we made in precision scientific equipment! 

My new iphone case just finished. Nearly two hour print, ~8mm "skirt" (designed-on, one layer thick perimeter), nearly zero peeling. Low HBP temp is where it's at. And tons of GF Nuclear Hold 5!

--
 
 

[BTHOON]

I've got an absurdly strong iphone 5 case that I printed with the nylon on your glass at 55c/237c 80mm/s. - Aquanet, 2 layers

no peeling at all!

[Adan Akerman]

It's okay, you paid for it... You can call it your glass now :-)

How do you apply the 'spray? Spray, set aside at room temp, re-spray? Or set back on the hbp to bake on? Or...?

My new phone case has a snap fit sidecar for a coast flashlight http://di1-1.shoppingshadow.com/images/pi/ea/3d/b6/28117724-260x260-0-0_Coast+Cutlery+Coast+Cutlery+Tek+Torches+LL7526+Led.jpg  You couldn't get a snap like this out of ABS.

--
 
 

[Elbot]

Hey, I was wondering, how did you take care of the toxic fumes from printing in nylon? I would like to print in nylon but was confused about how to deal with the fumes. How?

Thanks!

[Andy]

They are printing with Taulman 618 nylon, which according to the website is a custom material.  Here is the instructables site that tested for HCN emissions on multiple materials, including the Taulman 618:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Is-3D-Printing-Safe-or-DIY-Testing-for-HCN-from-/

Here's the Taulman 618 nylon filament site's FAQ:

http://www.taulman3d.com/specifications.html

I don't plan on sticking around my printer when I finally try printing with it, but these documents eased my concerns. 

-Andy

--
 
 

[Fastrack]

It's the formulation that they used.  Most other nylons required +300C to print, this one is only 250C.  It's explained on the website.

Ben

[Bartholomew]

Many thanks, O Wise One! I received my 1/4" thick Nylatron sheet from Amazon yesterday, and once I cut it to shape and re-leveled it as a base, it has been working flawlessly. The nylon sticks just fine and peels off easily with no blue paper or hairspray/glue/etc.Now if I could just get the nylon filament to feed reliably...

On Saturday, January 5, 2013 5:28:44 PM UTC-7, Martin wrote:

So a day of fiddling around with this, and I think I found my favorite material to print the Taulman 618 nylon onto --- a sheet of Nylatron (nylon with a doping agent).  I'm using this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0070ZF8CI/ref=oh_details_o02_s01_i00.  Much like acrylic, it seems to stick but still release when you get the z height right.  Time will tell if there is degradation from multiple prints, but so far so good.  

And the best part is that I haven't had any warping, even on a cold bed.  I'm going to try a warp torture test later, but it is already much better than blue tape, or even wood, has been.

I might try a thicker sheet next (1/4"?), particularly if it looks like the material holds up to repeated prints.  Right now, I've got a thin sheet that I'm holding down with many clips, basically all the way around the plate.

On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 7:18 AM, Martin <martin...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've been playing around with the Taulman 618 nylon the last few days -- it really feels like the future, if we can get the warping issues solved.  Small objects print great on painters tape and really feel and look like injection molded parts.  The filament seems to be extremely consistent in diameter, so the finish is beautiful once you get your E-steps tuned and increase the retraction for the stringier filament.  

Even moderately sized items though, such as a large herringbone gear for a Wade's extruder, have huge warping forces.  Enough to actually peel blue tape up off the bed.  I've got an order of different substrates left to test, including nylon sheeting.  So far, the best has been some random plywood I had lying around and cut down to fit on top of the build platform.  By lowering the z height and smashing the first layer in, it sticks pretty well.  When you take the item off, there are even some small wood fibers stuck into the first layer.  The bad news is that ... it can still warp.  There really is a lot of force at play.  And with the thick wood, there doesn't seem to be much point to trying to use the heated base plate.  I'll try a nylon sheet next, but I suspect that might be limited use, given that the nylon filament may bond permanently to that. 

Beyond that, my only complaint is that I don't like the packaging.  The idea is that the package is the spool itself -- and it's a cool idea -- but the filament binds and has to be fixed every meter or so.  Not great for an unattended print with (relatively) expensive filament.

 
On Friday, January 4, 2013 6:23:39 PM UTC-5, AdanA wrote:

There are some gleanings to be had from the table here: http://taulman3d.com/testers.html  Also the links to the testers at the top.

A Master Wiki Of Maker Findings And Guidance will be nice when it arrives :-)

You'll be printing without a heated bed, I guess, but hopefully people will find substrates on which that's possible... or other workarounds that aren't too arduous. 

On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Eric Cheung <cch...@gmail.com> wrote:

That's very encouraging news!

I just got my rep2, and my 3 spools of nylon will soon arrive (as soon as usps lets me :))

Like many, I'm looking to print practical/production parts with it.

I know I will be doing my fair share of testing. Is there a repository of results vs. settings for nylon 618? Would love to hear your experience and advice.

I will come back with results as soon as possible!

--
 
 

--
 
 

--
Martin Galese

[Eric Cheung]

Amazing stuff, works on cold build plate?! Could you link the mystic Nylatron sheet material please from amazon please? Does it wear out over repeated prints?

--
 
 

--
Chi Ho Eric, Cheung
Aeronautics and Astronautics Engineering

[Michael Buffington]

I took am using a Nylatron plate. The 618 filament sticks almost too well.

Here's a link to the sheet I purchased:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0070ZDAPU/ref=biss_dp_t_asn

1/8" is plenty stiff for what I've been printing - plate wide prints haven't peeled off the sheet, nor have they warped the sheet at all.

A 12x12" sheet gives you enough to make two plates. You'll probably want to cut it to size using a band saw or similar tool - I used an acrylic scoring tool and it was extremely difficult to snap along the score line. I needed a bench vise to hold one end and some 2x4"s clamped to the other end for leverage. When it finally broke in half it sounded like a gunshot. This material is incredibly strong.

You'll want to make sure it's level before printing, as usual, but without preheating the extruders. The Nylatron will melt if it touches a preheated head, and if it's too close when printing, the nozzle will drag through the material like a hot knife through butter.

[Bartholomew]

Well, I've made about a dozen prints with it. No sign of variation. Yes on a cold plate (Rep2). I got the 1/4" plate because I wanted to be able to just swap the plexi for this when I'm using nylon. I cut it with a band saw, which made cutting the guide notches easy.

[BTHOON]

I am using this
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:28241
and have no problems feeding at all!

[66tbird]

Thank you for the run down, I may go that route. I can hear the loud pop (gunshot) now.

[Eric Cheung]

Just ordered the Nylon plate from amazon, 1/4 inch. Results will come about in a week or so. Fingers crossed!

Really would like this thread to conclude with ultimate success!

[Fastrack]

This is amazing!  Does the printed Nylon leave any impression on the nylon sheet (assuming the nozzle does not touch the surface) ?  What does the bottom of the print look like?

I know this was just discovered, but shall we lean towards 1/4" or 1/8" thick?  It seems I can not find this in Canada either.  

I did a search for Nylon 6/6 and it's VERY common, but there are different compounds it seems, so it's just not the 6/6 we need to look for.  Should we be looking at the hardness rating of the material?

Ben

[Bartholomew]

I haven't seen any marring on my 1/4" base so far. I just unloaded the nylon and am going to try printing PLA on it. If it works, I may just stick (pardon) with the nylon base for everything.

[Fastrack]

This is great news.   I see this as the filament of the future.  I've printed some objects with black ABS and it's now faded (from being outside).   Unfortunately I have not been able to pick my spools up from my post office, so all I can do is read about others!   

Ben

On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 1:03:58 AM UTC-5, taulman3D wrote:

Eric,AdanA,BTHOON,Clinton Hoines,Cymon,Lincoln K,Eric Cheung , j.pickens, Martin, Michael, Buffington, Infinityplusplus, Darrell jan, delsydsoftware, hellphish, Sven, funmakerBart, Andrew, John , Driggers, Fastrack, Bartholomew and  66tbird.  My apologies for not dropping in sooner.  I wanted to take a moment and complement as well as thank all of you for your great posts and the sharing of information on 618.  I can tell you that this forum is heavily read by a lot of individual users as well as hi tech firms as I am contacted on occasion about information or tips that all of you provide.  Again, thank you.
    Next, I wanted to update you on how the clinical, medical, industrial and CNC related industries are using and or plan to use 618 now and into 2013.  As all of us now have the ability to print almost any component, structure, part, item or biomedical component, the high tech industry is moving very quickly.  And in some areas, they are already moving forward from the technologies we all use with our various machines.  While bringing 618 to the RepRap style community is very important, it’s also extremely important that those, like you that have been in the forefront be made aware of any new technologies that I can divulge.  My desire is that all of you have an equal shot at knowing the absolute latest information, how it will affect your efforts and designs, including your design abilities. 
      The decision has been made to explain the development of 618 on the RepRap site along with taulman3d dot com.  This will allow you and others to add comments and or ask questions at one location.  For now, I’ve already started on this at http://www.reprap.org/wiki/User:Taulman
    To give you a feel for how fast the technology is moving since the release of 618, keep this fact in mind……
   618 was released for sale/distribution less than 90 days ago! And in that short time span:
Use or evaluation by:

28 Universities, including
Hague University of applied sciences at the Department: Technology, Innovation & Society

Institute of Biotechnology, Cambridge

6 us clinics and 3 overseas clinics – Medical and Vet

3 Hospitals, 2 Domestic, 1 South American

18 Industrial Companies – From transportation to energy storage

25+ CNC shops – For quick turn and difficult to machine parts as well as provide overnight “POC” Proof of Concept.

The high tech community has taken information from all of us in our forums, online discussions, postings and submissions.  Their technical leaders have gleaned these resources, to make determinations as to what hardware is best, fastest, most accurate and best build volumes.
  I have had the privilege of seeing a Replicator 1 that was completely rebuilt by a CNC shop, replacing all parts with Hi strength Alum.  Stepper Motors replaced with servos/w optical FB, Zaxis replaced with a fine pitch threaded rod, literally bolted to a table where it ran at 220+mm/s printing veterinary bone replacement prototypes in 618.  An Ultimaker, again, totally rebuilt moving at what I consider to be unprintable speeds, printing harsh environment battery container/consolidators with 618.
A CNC shop in California where they use a converted CNC machine to print large multi angled damping components in 618.  They use a 1.5mm nozzle. 
However, make no mistake as again, they received their initial direction/design ideas from this very forum along with others just like it.
  I am already seeing some initial requests for new employees that know, understand and have proven 3D Printer capabilities from some of these firms.  We were able to point an East coast High Tech firm to a user here given their proven experience with 618.  But more importantly, we want to start sharing any new technologies that are coming from these new sources.
    Not everything is closed to them, and in a lot of cases, we get permission to write up investigations, issues or simple collaborations.  As an example, the CNC house in CA had to design a new nozzle type due to the huge quantity of 618 needed with fast printing and a 1.5mm nozzle.  We worked with them to develop a new Deep Well Nozzle and now they can extrude and print at high speed with a large nozzle without the material going cold.  We will add this design along with others to the site and the reprap site as we learn more. 
   We also know that printing in 618 not only provides extremely strong parts, but has it’s challenges with parts that have a large bottom surface area.  And we understand that while the spool works great with 3mm line, the ratchet slot is probably not the best for the 1.75mm line.  We will work to improve these as we also work to provide any new technical information made available to us.
      In summary, I am seeing things 3D Printed now that you will start seeing in 12-18 months that are very impressive, however I don’t want you to have to wait any longer than necessary to learn the latest information.  These facilities watch and read all of our posts and just like any one of us, they are not shy as to trying new solutions.  This community has been key in making a lot of great recommendations for printers and printing.  As this community has a proven record of problem solving, I also plan to bring problems to the site as well as new designs.
taulman

[Mark Durbin]

I've ordered Nylon 6, Nylon 6.6, UHMWPE, Acetal, Oilon, HDPE, PVC, Tufnol 1P/13 and Tufnol Whale to see which is best, I'll let you know how I get on with these.

MakeALot.

--
 
 

[Eric Cheung]

So... now that there is light at the end of the tunnel on the build plate front, I have a less critical question for yall:

I'm finding unloading Nylon from my Rep2 a lot more difficult than unloading PLA. For PLA, I hit the unload sequence, and the motor roll the filament out all by itself. For Nylon, I had to use a pair of pliers, lean against some wall/furniture, apply extreme force to yank it out, the horizontal beams of the gantry were bending out, the bot flopping around as my hands flew into the ceiling. (no exaggeration applied) I'm really worried that I'm damaging the bot, in structure and in the feeding motor/mechanism, during the unloading of the nylon filament. One thing is already sure, the process is leaving a lot of nylon in the feeding gear, making it slip often unless I clean it every time.

I'm wondering if you've had similar experience, and have a solution to my problem. Say, is there a way to crank up the temperature of the nozzle for unloading? (I'm default at 230, don't know how to change)

Thanks!!

--
 
 

[Fastrack]

I've had this issue with some of the cheap filament (with small diameters).  But since this nylon is slick... might be a similar situation.  What I do is "load" first... then do an "unload".  I have no idea what causes it.   But this seems to work!

I had pilers on some ABS once and it was doing the EXACT same thing you describe.   I hit load ... came out for a bit (about 5 sec), then did an unload and the machine popped out the filament itself.

Ben

[Clinton Hoines]

I found to unload the nylon easier I had to bump my temp up to about 245 or so, I print at 235. I think once it packs into the nozzle it needs a bit more convincing to get out. ;)

 

Clinton

[Jetty]

I get this problem pretty much most of the time where ABS has cooled in the nozzle.

I have a theory on this, what's happening is that the filament swells past the pinch wheel (likely if the extruder

has been running a while and the pinch wheel / stepper get hot).  When it cools, it goes solid and then when

you next use the extruder, it's too thick to fit between the pinch wheel and plunger.

I did open up the extruder once, and confirmed there was swelling.

The solution is pretty simple though, as pointed out here.  Load for a few seconds first and then unload.

Another thing I'll do is unload filament at the end of the print, which can also be done gently with

the machine off whilst the nozzle is still hot.  I've found if I let it cool 10/15 degrees first it will also pull out

junk inside the nozzle and makes color changes easier.  (Don't pull too fast).  Probably not a supported

way of doing things though. 

[whpthomas]

+1 This unload extruder jam only seems to happen to me after really long prints, short prints don't seem to exhibit this behaviour.

[lassikin]

if you're on rep1 then sailfish firmware allows you to quite easily change the temperature for a moment(have the temp override option on and just change the preheat settings).

However, I just got my taulman filament today. anyone have had success with printing it on the hbp with kapton? with what settings and tricks? I'm having trouble keeping it stuck to the platform.


-lassi

[BTHOON]

I know this is going to seem all too easy, but I simply cut the filament off right above the extruder assembly and extrude out what's left.   I follow it with 2 feet of PLA (for some reason, this seems to help purge things better!) and I'm done!

[Eric Cheung]

Thanks for the replies! I will keep note of the solution. 

It's interesting that ABS has similar issue, where PLA is basically trouble free regardless how long you let it cool in the extruder. This is consistent with the thermal swelling explanation, because both ABS and Nylon have much higher thermal expansion than PLA. :)

It's yet more interesting how printing ABS is very much like printing Nylon. I thought the Rep2 is going to be a pretty cool machine, turns out not quite so if you want to go Nylon!

Material advancement path:     ABS --> PLA --> Nylon

Bot Advancement path:           Rep1 --> Rep2 --> Rep1 or Rep2X

Man~~ Rep 2 is such a rip off@!#!@$ LOL

--
 
 

[Eric Cheung]

Final Report:

Printed on 1/4" Nylon Plate (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0070ZFAKI/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00)

Rep2 (no HBP), 240C, NO cooling, everything else default.

Achieved only very slight improvement in adhesion to build plate. The part, as small as 1"x1", still experience corner/edge peel off. Doesn't fall off or get pushed off as easily. 

I am quite disappointed, both because the nylon plate was $50, and that I ultimately couldn't find a solution to Nylon printing without HBP. Looks like the only way forward is to use that.

signing off,

Eric

[Shane Graber]

Eric: 

You might try Garolite LE: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:43634

Shane

--
 
 

--
Shane 

[hellphish]

I used a similar plate, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0070ZDAPU/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00

I had better luck with the perfboard

--
 
 

[Shane Graber]

FYI: FR-2 perfboard [1,2] is made from phenol formaldehyde resin impregnated paper, very similar to Garolite LE [3]. The main thing I see different is that Garolite LE uses cloth whereas FR-2 perfboard uses paper. Otherwise it uses the same phenol formaldehyde chemistry. Make sure to go with the FR-2 and not FR-4 as FR-4 is epoxy-based [4]. According to the Thingiverse page [5] where they discuss getting a good bond with Taulman 618 to the build platform, the phenol component is important. This may also explain why some people have luck with perfboard and others do not. The ones that have problems with perfboard may in fact have the FR-4 perf.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfboard

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_resin_bonded_paper

[3] http://www.professionalplastics.com/PHENOLICLINENGRADELE

[4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FR-4

[5] http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:43634

Shane

--
 
 

--
Shane 

[Eric Cheung]

I don't want to start a new thread for Rep2,

but does anybody know a definitive answer for UNHEATED bed?

I don't have unlimited resources to "you might try" this or "have better luck" with that.

It is okay that there is no solution to unheated bed.

Appreciate it.

* 50C bed is quite a bit warmer than my 10C home temp. I wouldn't extrapolate any success with 50C bed to unheated bed.

[Wingcommander whpthomas]

It is okay that there is no solution to unheated bed.

I thought the Garolite LE bed was unheated, and isn't this is what Taulman recommends.

[Mark Durbin]

Hi Eric,

I've used the UK equivalent to Garolite LE (Tufnol Whale)  I bulldog clipped a 1mm sheet of it (£3) to the build plate and printed a 150mm x 100mm x 30mm high case in Taulman618.

This was done on a Replicator 2 with no heated build platform and no curling.

Hope that helps.

Regards,

Mark

(MakeALot)

On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Wingcommander whpthomas <m...@henri.net> wrote:

It is okay that there is no solution to unheated bed.

I thought the Garolite LE bed was unheated, and isn't this is what Taulman recommends.

--
 
 

[laird]

Nylon on Garelite LE is awesome! This snowflake is my "thin" stress test, and the nylon printed evenly with only two small gaps. It was printed 220 degrees extrusion, 50 degrees print bed, 40 mm/sec extrusion speed (Skeinforge, 1/2 speed on 1st layer, 1/2 speed on perimeter), in a Replicator. It's 0.25mm layer height, so the snowflake is two layers for most of the snowflake (which is quite flexible) four layers for the center, which is fairly stiff. As you can see from the photos, I can bend the thin print area freely, and it flattens back out.

I sanded the Garolite LE, so it's a bit scuffed up, which seems to stick better - printing on it when slick didn't stick as well. I am using 1/32", held down with binder clips. The only problem I'm having is that for taller prints the nylon pulls the Garolite sheet up. I've ordered a quarter inch sheet, which I hope will resist warping. I've not had too much trouble releasing - a sharp knife cuts between the nylon and the Garolite pretty well for small areas, and for larger areas I can bend the Garolite sheet and the print pops loose. Not sure how the larger sheet will fare on that front.

Comparing to the Nylon sheet, I think the Garolite LE sticks better. I only got the nylon sheet to stick by scratching it up with a box cutter, which worked, but the prints come out looking scarred, which isn't aesthetically pleasing.

[Will Stone]

hmm partially sanded (used a wire brush) garolite LE adheres to the nylon too well. i needed to use a razor to remove the part, and there's a bit of garolite stuck to the bottom of my print.

using 2x 1/8" thick 6x6" garolite le from mcmasters (delivery was overnight??!) atop 8x10" .093" thick lexan polycarbonate which is atop a glass panel. lol. (removed the white spacers)

seeking a solution that works for PLA + nylon on both my replicators that produces that glass shiny finish and requires very little maintenance (aren't we all?)

any ideas? hairspray to reduce adhesion strength?