ReplicatorG 39 + Accelerated Thing-o-matic firmware from Jetty

[Alison]

There's a new version of ReplicatorG available, v0039 : http://code.google.com/p/replicatorg/downloads/list

ReplicatorG0039 features

* Added Replicator 2 Machine profile
* Added Profiles for Thing-o-matic with Skeinforge-50 and volumetric printing
* Added support for accelerated Thing-o-matic firmware.  MBI is hosting Jetty firmware v3.5
* bugfix for setting preheat on commit
* bugfix for commiting onboard preferences to Replicator(Single Extruder)
* bugfix for commiting oboard preferences to Thing-O-Matic

We're offering this to the makerbot operators a few days before posting it to general users.  If you try it out, feel free to provide feedback in this thread or to ali...@makerbot.com.

This version supports the Replicator2 and has built-in support for using skeinforge-50 with the TOM.  We're also excited to be hosting Jetty Firmware for the TOM.  Jetty Firmware implements acceleration and lots of nice features for users that have the interface kit.   We've also posted Jetty Firmware for cupcakes, which should be considered experimental.  Jetty Firmware is authored by MakerBot Operators jetty and dnewman. Their contact email is: jetty-firmware@googlegroups.com

Our docs manager melody put together some quick start instructions for updating your TOM firmware to v3.5 (Jetty Firmware) and running accelerated prints : 

1. How to prepare for the Jetty Thing-O-Matic Formware 3.5 Upgrade. 
In order to install Jetty Thing-O-Matic Firmware 3.5, you will need to do the following:
a.Have a MakerBot with either Gen 4 electronics or Gen 3 electronics and a
 3G5D Shield or "Ugly Cable Hack."  Keep in mind while this firmware is 
intended for both Thing-O-Matics and appropriately modified Cupcakes, 
use with the Cupcake should be considered experimental.
b. Know what kind of motherboard you have.
c. Update ReplicatorG to version 0039 : http://code.google.com/p/replicatorg/downloads/list 
If you're updating a bot with Gen 4 electronics, you'll also need to make 
sure your Extruder Controller firmware is updated to version 3.1[link]. 

2. How to update your bot.
a. Open ReplicatorG, go to the Machine menu, and select Upload new Firmware. 
b. Choose the type of motherboard you're updating and then select 3.5 from the list of available firmwares. 
c.When you come to the final screen of the upgrade process, press the 
reset button on your bot a fraction of a second before you hit the 
Upload button. It may take a couple of tries to get the timing right, 
but when you do you will see the debug light flash as the upload takes 
place. This is an ordinary firmware upgrade, so whatever method you have
 used to make firmware upgrades work in the past should work now.

3. How to get Jetty Firmware set up.
Once your bot is updated, go back to the Machine menu and select the correct
 Machine Type. This will be the machine type that best matches the 
description of your bot and how you will be using it.
Acceleration:
 If you are going to be printing at accelerated speeds, make sure to 
choose an accelerated machine type. Installing this firmware will add a 
new Acceleration checkbox in Onboard Preferences. If you want to print 
at accelerated speeds, check this box and choose an accelerated machine 
type. If you do not intend to print at accelerated speeds, leave this 
box unchecked, choose a non-accelerated machine type, and make sure to 
keep to the non-accelerated default speeds in Print-O-Matic.
Volumetric printing: If your bot is set up for volumetric printing, 
you will already be using the makerbot4g driver and Skeinforge 50 and 
your extruder direction will be reversed. Once you have updated to Jetty
 Thing-O-Matic Firmware 3.5, you will additionally have to go into the 
Miscellaneous tab in your Onboard Preferences and make sure that the 
Volumetric 5D Extruder checkbox is checked and the Clockwise Extruder 
checkbox is not. You will also want to choose a Volumetric machine type:
 these are already configured to use the makerbot4g driver.
If you are using a custom Skeinforge profile for volumetric 
printing, consider turning off the Dimension and Reversal plugins: Jetty
 firmware uses a feature called Deprime to accomplish the same goals, 
and the two alternative solutions don't work well together. We find that
 Deprime produces better results, but if you with to use Dimension and 
Reversal instead, it can be turned off in the Advanced Acceleration tab 
in Onboard Preferences.
Another change you may want to make to a custom Volumetric profile 
is to either set the perimeter rate multipliers in the Speed plugin to 
.5 or to turn on the Altshell plugin for a better surface finish on your
 prints. If you do turn on the Altshell plugin, make sure that the 
perimeter rate multipliers in the Speed plugin are set to 1.0.

For detailed instructions and configuration help, see : 
Install: http://wiki.makerbot.com/jetty-firmware-installation-guide
Setup: http://wiki.makerbot.com/jetty-firmware-setup-guide

[Gian Pablo]

I am confused about turning OFF Dimension when using Jetty, and a volumetric driver. Will this work? Does this mean you HAVE to use Print-O-Matic to get info about filament diameter to Skeinforge?

So basically if I'm using Jetty + Thing-O-Matic (accelerated volumetric) machine type, does Dimension have to be on or off?

I've been using Jetty firmware and Skeinforge 47, with Dimension turned on. Perhaps I have something wrong?

[Jetty]

> I am confused about turning OFF Dimension when using Jetty, and a
> volumetric driver. Will this work? Does this mean you HAVE to use
> Print-O-Matic to get info about filament diameter to Skeinforge?

I think that should be "Retraction Distance" which can be found in the
Dimension plugin (you set it to 0.0).
Reversal was for older versions of Skeinforge.

> So basically if I'm using Jetty + Thing-O-Matic (accelerated volumetric)
> machine type, does Dimension have to be on or off?

Either should work. There's also the driver you're using. makerbot4g
is for 5D, and
makerbot4ga is the original.

Personally I find better results with makerbot4ga.

But either can work. I put a guide a few days ago up on the Jetty
Forum on how
to use SF50 and 5D.

> I've been using Jetty firmware and Skeinforge 47, with Dimension turned on.
> Perhaps I have something wrong?

If you're printing, then likely not. When you have dimension
configured incorrectly, you
don't get prints generally.

[Cymon]

I'm very excited about this upgrade and it's awesome that you're supporting Thingomatic. Just awesome.

What about dual extruder replicators (1)? What's the risk.

[Dan Newman]

On 3 Oct 2012 , at 5:13 PM, Gian Pablo wrote:

> I am confused about turning OFF Dimension when using Jetty, and a
> volumetric driver. Will this work? Does this mean you HAVE to use
> Print-O-Matic to get info about filament diameter to Skeinforge?
>
> So basically if I'm using Jetty + Thing-O-Matic (accelerated volumetric)
> machine type, does Dimension have to be on or off?
>
> I've been using Jetty firmware and Skeinforge 47, with Dimension turned on.
> Perhaps I have something wrong?

My advice: upgrade to 3.5 and continue with your present configuration if it
is working to your satisfaction. No need to change your SF profile if you
are content with it. I don't think you have anything wrong.

Jetty did find a bug in RepG's Makerbot4GDriver (driver=makerbot4g) which
finally explains some of the surface imperfections we saw when we tried volumetric
5D on ToM's with SF-35, SF-47, and SF-50. The bug does not exist in RepG's
Makerbot4GAlternateDriver (driver=makerbot4ga) nor does it exist in the RepG's Replicator
driver. This RepG issue is not fixed in RepG 39 but may be fixed in a later release
of RepG -- that's up to MBI. The next release of the Jetty Firmware avoids the
issue entirely. (And the next release will be biased towards Volumetric 5D.)

Please note that there is a separate list for discussion of Jetty Firmware
issues, jetty-f...@googlegroups.com .

Regards,
Dan

[g. wygonik]

I was hoping this was just going to work, but after successful installation of 3.5 driver, and selecting "ToM/HBP/Mk6 (Accelerated)" I have the same problems that I have when I've tried this in the past:

- I get 4 gcode errors of "homing in the wrong direction" with proceed/cancel options
- If I proceed, I get axis moving inverted
- I then invert the axis in the onboard prefs, commit, then reset
- Then when I run it, I still get errors, but at least the axis move in the correct direction
- Then they hit the endstops and don't stop and make a horrible grinding
- I changed all the different endstop options in onboard pref, reset, retested and still not stopping

I haven't been able to get to the Z-axis or extrusion yet.

I did, of course, re-generate the gcode with SF50 (that is part of this upgrade). I also tried re-calibrating the machine, which resulted in all zeros for homing data. I'm going to try going back to non-accelerated, non-volumetric, SF35 now and make sure that at least still works.

Any advice I can try would be great! :-)

g.

On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 1:13:31 PM UTC-7, Alison wrote:

[g. wygonik]

I should point out this is a stock ToM, bought pre-built, with no mods other than leveling thumb-wheels.

And now when I went back to plain-jane settings, re-calibrated, re-sliced (SF37), and sent to printer, it works as expected BUT slows down to a crawl every time there's a big change in path; like it's trying to go extra close to the ends to fill in gaps. :-\

g.

[Dan Newman]

1. Please use the jetty firmware list for this discussion.
2. You need to turn off reversal/retraction (or tune it way down)

Dan

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[Jetty]

> I was hoping this was just going to work, but after successful installation
> of 3.5 driver, and selecting "ToM/HBP/Mk6 (Accelerated)" I have the same
> problems that I have when I've tried this in the past:
>
> - I get 4 gcode errors of "homing in the wrong direction" with
> proceed/cancel options

Highly likely that you're using the replicator start/end gcode not the
thingomatic one.

Try unchecking "default end/start.gcode" in Printomatic. If you
already have this unchecked, then
try checking it. Certain historical configurations that you've
brought forward seem to cause issues with the
way RepG handles picking the correct start/end.

The source of the issue is likely the bookends in the xml.

The only axis you need to invert from the way you had it before is
your "A / Extruder Axis".
And that's only if you're switching to Volumetric 5D.

[g. wygonik]

Oh holy crap - that's a beautiful thing!

Thanks, Jetty, for posting here. I wasn't using default start/stop due to the previous issues with the anchor. So checking that did the trick.

I'm guessing that the last issue I'm having is trying to feed to fast and I'm getting occasional clicking from the extruder stepper.

But that's an easy fix (i think) ;-)

Thanks much!
g.

[Jetty]

> I'm guessing that the last issue I'm having is trying to feed to fast and
> I'm getting occasional clicking from the extruder stepper.
>
> But that's an easy fix (i think) ;-)

Probably around 100mm/s max on a ToM with a standard MK7.

If you can keep the extruder clean and clean it frequently, probably
120mm/s
max.

Clicking might be the deprime (make sure you don't have deprime and
dimension / retract both on, either or).
And if the A max feed rate is too high, then you get clicking and
possibly stripping
whenever you have a travel move or layer change.

And the jetty forum is probably the place for these discussions:

http://groups.google.com/group/jetty-firmware

[Mark Cohen]

Maybe this is the first bug. I only tried this once so maybe it's me.
Generate GCODE button did not write out gcode, at least I could not
find it, repg39 could not find it and so the build to file .s3g button
was greyed out. GCODE tab was not visible.
Using Model to GCODE button worked fine.
This was on the first use of the new version.

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Alison <ali...@makerbot.com> wrote:
>
> There's a new version of ReplicatorG available, v0039 :
> http://code.google.com/p/replicatorg/downloads/list
>
> ReplicatorG0039 features
>
> * Added Replicator 2 Machine profile
> * Added Profiles for Thing-o-matic with Skeinforge-50 and volumetric
> printing
> * Added support for accelerated Thing-o-matic firmware. MBI is hosting
> Jetty firmware v3.5
> * bugfix for setting preheat on commit
> * bugfix for commiting onboard preferences to Replicator(Single Extruder)
> * bugfix for commiting oboard preferences to Thing-O-Matic
>
>
>
> We're offering this to the makerbot operators a few days before posting it
> to general users. If you try it out, feel free to provide feedback in this
> thread or to ali...@makerbot.com.
>
> This version supports the Replicator2 and has built-in support for using
> skeinforge-50 with the TOM. We're also excited to be hosting Jetty Firmware
> for the TOM. Jetty Firmware implements acceleration and lots of nice
> features for users that have the interface kit. We've also posted Jetty
> Firmware for cupcakes, which should be considered experimental. Jetty
> Firmware is authored by MakerBot Operators jetty and dnewman. Their contact

> email is: jetty-f...@googlegroups.com

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "MakerBot Operators" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit

> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/makerbot/-/iKDIWg_R_DsJ.

[Mark Cohen]

I have tried the new Jetty firmware with RepG39 and the new Replicator
firmware with RepG39. It seems like the Jetty firmware prints way
better on my TOM then the new replicator one. Without any adjustments
I am able to print a pretty nice piece with the Jetty, just about the
same look as unaccelerated, but with the Replicator I can see too much
wavyness patterns on the side of the piece. What adjustments do you
think I should try.

Thanks.

On Oct 3, 4:13 pm, Alison <ali...@makerbot.com> wrote:
> There's a new version of ReplicatorG available, v0039 :http://code.google.com/p/replicatorg/downloads/list
>
> ReplicatorG0039 features
>
> * Added Replicator 2 Machine profile
> * Added Profiles for Thing-o-matic with Skeinforge-50 and volumetric printing
> * Added support for accelerated Thing-o-matic firmware.  MBI is hosting Jetty firmware v3.5
> * bugfix for setting preheat on commit
> * bugfix for commiting onboard preferences to Replicator(Single Extruder)
> * bugfix for commiting oboard preferences to Thing-O-Matic
>
> We're offering this to the makerbot operators a few days before posting it
> to general users.  If you try it out, feel free to provide feedback in this
> thread or to ali...@makerbot.com.
>
> This version supports the Replicator2 and has built-in support for using
> skeinforge-50 with the TOM.  We're also excited to be hosting Jetty
> Firmware for the TOM.  Jetty Firmware implements acceleration and lots of
> nice features for users that have the interface kit.   We've also posted
> Jetty Firmware for cupcakes, which should be considered experimental.
> Jetty Firmware is authored by MakerBot Operators jetty and dnewman. Their

> contact email is: jetty-f...@googlegroups.com

>
> Our docs manager melody put together some quick start instructions for updating your TOM firmware to v3.5 (Jetty Firmware) and running accelerated prints :
>

> *1. How to prepare for the Jetty Thing-O-Matic Formware 3.5 Upgrade. *

>
> In order to install Jetty Thing-O-Matic Firmware 3.5, you will need to do the following:
>
> a.Have a MakerBot with either Gen 4 electronics or Gen 3 electronics and a
>  3G5D Shield or "Ugly Cable Hack."  Keep in mind while this firmware is
> intended for both Thing-O-Matics and appropriately modified Cupcakes,
> use with the Cupcake should be considered experimental.
>
> b. Know what kind of motherboard you have.
>
> c. Update ReplicatorG to version 0039 :http://code.google.com/p/replicatorg/downloads/list
>
> If you're updating a bot with Gen 4 electronics, you'll also need to make
> sure your Extruder Controller firmware is updated to version 3.1[link].
>

> *2. How to update your bot.*

>
> a. Open ReplicatorG, go to the Machine menu, and select Upload new Firmware.
>
> b. Choose the type of motherboard you're updating and then select 3.5 from the list of available firmwares.
>
> c.When you come to the final screen of the upgrade process, press the
> reset button on your bot a fraction of a second before you hit the
> Upload button. It may take a couple of tries to get the timing right,
> but when you do you will see the debug light flash as the upload takes
> place. This is an ordinary firmware upgrade, so whatever method you have
>  used to make firmware upgrades work in the past should work now.
>

> *3. How to get Jetty Firmware set up.*

>
> Once your bot is updated, go back to the Machine menu and select the correct
>  Machine Type. This will be the machine type that best matches the
> description of your bot and how you will be using it.
>

>    - Acceleration:

>     If you are going to be printing at accelerated speeds, make sure to
>    choose an accelerated machine type. Installing this firmware will add a
>    new Acceleration checkbox in Onboard Preferences. If you want to print
>    at accelerated speeds, check this box and choose an accelerated machine
>    type. If you do not intend to print at accelerated speeds, leave this
>    box unchecked, choose a non-accelerated machine type, and make sure to
>    keep to the non-accelerated default speeds in Print-O-Matic.

>    - Volumetric printing: If your bot is set up for volumetric printing,

>    you will already be using the makerbot4g driver and Skeinforge 50 and
>    your extruder direction will be reversed. Once you have updated to Jetty
>     Thing-O-Matic Firmware 3.5, you will additionally have to go into the
>    Miscellaneous tab in your Onboard Preferences and make sure that the
>    Volumetric 5D Extruder checkbox is checked and the Clockwise Extruder
>    checkbox is not. You will also want to choose a Volumetric machine type:
>     these are already configured to use the makerbot4g driver.

>    - If you are using a custom Skeinforge profile for volumetric

>    printing, consider turning off the Dimension and Reversal plugins: Jetty
>     firmware uses a feature called Deprime to accomplish the same goals,
>    and the two alternative solutions don't work well together. We find that
>     Deprime produces better results, but if you with to use Dimension and
>    Reversal instead, it can be turned off in the Advanced Acceleration tab
>    in Onboard Preferences.

>    - Another change you may want to make to a custom Volumetric profile

[Jetty]

Replicator 6.0, doesn't contain any of the Jetty acceleration code.

So you're talking different acceleration between the two. There are a
couple of reasons
that the quality is better on Jetty ToM:

1. Jetty on ToM has Yet Another Jerk, JKN Advance, Deprime, Variable
Interrupts,
Faster Calculations, Slowdown, all which improve the quality in
various ways.

2. Replicator's Heated Build Platform vibrates more than the ToM.
Some of this
can be offset by tuning down your speed / acceleration parameters.

[Dan Newman]

On 7 Oct 2012 , at 11:26 AM, Jetty wrote:

> Replicator 6.0, doesn't contain any of the Jetty acceleration code.
>
> So you're talking different acceleration between the two. There are a
> couple of reasons
> that the quality is better on Jetty ToM:
>
> 1. Jetty on ToM has Yet Another Jerk, JKN Advance, Deprime, Variable
> Interrupts,
> Faster Calculations, Slowdown, all which improve the quality in
> various ways.

Not to mention fixes to several Marlin bugs which impact print quality.
(Issues reported to the Marlin folks back in Spring.)

>
> 2. Replicator's Heated Build Platform vibrates more than the ToM.
> Some of this
> can be offset by tuning down your speed / acceleration parameters.

And printing towards the back of the cantilevered platform helps
as well.

Dan

[Mark Cohen]

Thanks for the info.
So then how would i turn it off on the replicator? Turn it off in firmware, turn off dimension in sf50? Go back to sf35?

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[Dan Newman]

On 7 Oct 2012 , at 2:17 PM, Mark Cohen wrote:

> Thanks for the info.
> So then how would i turn it off on the replicator? Turn it off in firmware,

You can disable acceleration in the firmware and go back to slower feedrates
You can leave acceleration on in the firmware and use tighter jerk control and see if that helps

> turn off dimension in sf50? Go back to sf35?

SF 50 + Volumetric 5D + Replicator is fine and works quite well actually

Dan

[Dan Newman]

On 8 Oct 2012 , at 1:30 AM, Dcweng wrote:

> I just load the firmware, and it looks good when I jog the machine. Got
> one question, what is the Extruder Fan Enable/Disable function for?

It enables/disabled the cooling fan mounted on the front of a Mk6+, Mk7, or Mk8
extruder.

> I tried, but nothing happen.

The fan may not be correctly wired?

However, what you really want to do is go into Machine > Onboard Preferences
Then select the Extruder 0 tab. Then from that tab check the "Enable regulated cooling fan"
and set a set point temperature of 50C. That way, the extruder controller will
automatically control the fan. Also, the fan on/off control will cease to appear
in the Machine > Control Panel (if I recall correctly -- it doesn't appear in mine).

Dan

[Dcweng]

Thank you for the tip.  The Extruder Fan Enable/Disable function only works when the "Enable regulated cooling fan" is unchecked.

[Mark Cohen]

I printed out the Hear Gears with Jetty on the TOM. All was good out
of the box except the end of each print is blobbing when it gets to
the final little details/points. I am going to check if cool was
turned off or something in SF50. Any other thoughts on this?
Thanks.

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[Jetty]

Make sure you don't have both deprime and retraction on.
If you're on SF50, make sure Volumetric 5D Inverter Extruder is
enabled,
if you're not, disable it.

Finally SF50 isn't recommended for 3.5, you'll get better print
results with no
Volumetric 5D due to a bug in RepG's 5D driver.

[Mark Cohen]

I was just using the accelerated TOM profile. Should I have been using
Accelerated Volumetric?

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[Mark Cohen]

I can't find deprime and retraction in SF50. Is it somewhere else?
Cool with orbit seems to blow up SF50.

On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Jetty <clell...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Doogiekr]

Retraction is in the "dimension" area (see pic)... I have never seen deprime, and I thought I remember reading somewhere that that was a setting in the firmware... hopefully Dan or Jetty will respond, I am sure both of them know exactly where it is.

[Jetty]

Retract is "Retraction Distance" in Dimension. Change it from 1.0 to
0.0 to disable.
Deprime you can find in the Accleration (Misc) tab in Onboard
Preferences in RepG0039, you
can also find it in Build Settings / Acceleration Settings if you have
an LCD screen.

A setup guide for SF50 and ToM can be found on the Jetty Forum.

And unless you're doing it for the exercise your print quality with be
worse with SF50 than SF35, guaranteed.

On Oct 9, 7:36 pm, Doogiekr <doogi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Retraction is in the "dimension" area (see pic)... I have never seen
> deprime, and I thought I remember reading somewhere that that was a setting
> in the firmware... hopefully Dan or Jetty will respond, I am sure both of
> them know exactly where it is.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 9:51:51 AM UTC+9, Mark Cohen wrote:
> > I can't find deprime and retraction in SF50. Is it somewhere else?
> > Cool with orbit seems to blow up SF50.
>

> > On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Jetty <clell...@gmail.com <javascript:>>

> > wrote:
> > > Make sure you don't have both deprime and retraction on.
> > > If you're on SF50, make sure Volumetric 5D Inverter Extruder is
> > > enabled,
> > > if you're not, disable it.
>
> > > Finally SF50 isn't recommended for 3.5, you'll get better print
> > > results with no
> > > Volumetric 5D due to a bug in RepG's 5D driver.
>
> > > On Oct 9, 8:49 am, Mark Cohen <markcoh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> I printed out the Hear Gears with Jetty on the TOM. All was good out
> > >> of the box except the end of each print is blobbing when it gets to
> > >> the final little details/points. I am going to check if cool was
> > >> turned off or something in SF50. Any other thoughts on this?
> > >> Thanks.
>
> > > --
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> > > To post to this group, send email to make...@googlegroups.com<javascript:>.

>
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> > makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.

> > > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/makerbot?hl=en.
>
>
>

>  Retraction.JPG
> 70KViewDownload

[Mark Cohen]

Oh well, back to SF35 then.
It's getting a bit awkward now. SF35 for the TOM, SF50 for the
Replicator. Definitely not the way I want to do this. I like standard
kinds of stuff.
Thanks.

> To post to this group, send email to make...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com.

[Dan Newman]

On 9 Oct 2012 , at 7:49 AM, Mark Cohen wrote:

> I printed out the Hear Gears with Jetty on the TOM. All was good out
> of the box except the end of each print is blobbing when it gets to
> the final little details/points. I am going to check if cool was
> turned off or something in SF50. Any other thoughts on this?

For the large heart gears, I use a cool of 20 seconds (or maybe it was even 30).
At any rate it was much larger than the default.

an

[Jetty]

There's a bug in RepG's makerbot4g driver that's needed for SF50
(SF35 uses makerbot4ga, which doesn't have the bug).

The bug creates worse print quality, but as the bug's been in there
for a while,
the released firmwares expect it to be there. This effects all
firmwares on ToM and
Cupcake (not just ours).

However watch this space, we do have something in testing which does
away with
this driver entirely and works well with SF50

[Mark Cohen]

Cool with orbit?

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[Aaron Double]

I would do cool with slow down, not orbit.

[Mark Cohen]

Thats good as it seems to be broken in SF50.

[Aaron Double]

:-(

that sucks.

[ddurant]

> Thats good as it seems to be broken in SF50.

 

I and many others have been using Cool/Slow Down since SF50 came out ~6 months ago. This is the first I've heard of it being broken.

 

It probably requires 5D. Maybe also volumetric 5D, though I wouldn't bet on it - can't see why it'd care about that.

[Luis E. Rodriguez]

Works fine for me on my Cupcake and ToM. I use the makerbot4g driver. Where is this bug documented Jetty? I don't remember but do you code for MBI too? I just don't remember. I assumed so since the replicator control panel is very familiar! I tried your earlt software on my ToM and it rocked. Why they don't roll that into ToM firmware is beyond me. Planned Obsolescence I guess. Glad I have an alternative to use yours.

Luis E. Rodriguez

Are you a Maker?

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 11:57 AM, ddurant <ddur...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thats good as it seems to be broken in SF50.

 

I and many others have been using Cool/Slow Down since SF50 came out ~6 months ago. This is the first I've heard of it being broken.

 

It probably requires 5D. Maybe also volumetric 5D, though I wouldn't bet on it - can't see why it'd care about that.

 
On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 12:42:32 PM UTC-4, Mark Cohen wrote:

Thats good as it seems to be broken in SF50.

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[Mark Cohen]

Cool orbit seems broken. It gives divide by zero errors.

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 12:57 PM, ddurant <ddur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thats good as it seems to be broken in SF50.
>
> I and many others have been using Cool/Slow Down since SF50 came out ~6
> months ago. This is the first I've heard of it being broken.
>
> It probably requires 5D. Maybe also volumetric 5D, though I wouldn't bet on
> it - can't see why it'd care about that.
>
> On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 12:42:32 PM UTC-4, Mark Cohen wrote:
>>
>> Thats good as it seems to be broken in SF50.
>

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> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/makerbot/-/DZt5VCqbdrgJ.

[ddurant]

Ok. I misunderstood and thought you meant Slow Down was busted.

 

Why do you want to use Orbit? The theory behind it is good but in reality it doesn't work very well. You need to have ooze VERY well controlled to use Orbit..

 
On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 1:09:15 PM UTC-4, Mark Cohen wrote:

Cool orbit seems broken. It gives divide by zero errors.

[Mark Cohen]

Because, I thought the head was too close to the plastic being laid
down on a pointy part of a print. But it seems that the issue may be
that I need to go back to SF35. I never really needed to worry about
cool before, as it just always worked with the defaults. I'll have to
give the prior version a try.

> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/makerbot/-/osJBIa0Nu0oJ.

[Jetty]

> Works fine for me on my Cupcake and ToM. I use the makerbot4g driver.

It'll work, infact we even have a guide on how to do it over at the
Jetty Forum.
But print quality will be worse. We tracked it down, did comparison
prints, and
print quality suffers noticably. So personally we wouldn't use SF50,
or more specifically the
makerbot4g driver on the current firmwares that are out there for
ToM / Cupcake.

> Where is this bug documented Jetty?

MBI have been made aware of it, but as theirs legacy firmwares out
there, fixing it isn't that
easy.

> I don't remember but do you code for MBI too?

No, I don't work for MBI.

> I just don't remember. I assumed so since the replicator control panel is
> very familiar! I tried your earlt software on my ToM and it rocked. Why
> they don't roll that into ToM firmware is beyond me. Planned Obsolescence I

They did. You can get an MBI sanctioned Jetty Firmware from MBI's
firmware
download. It's version 3.5, and it's the same as Jetty Firmware 3.4
with a few minor bug fixes.

But it works with RepG0039 and for non-lcd users, you can configure
settings
via the Onboard Preferences and no longer need to send mcodes.

> guess. Glad I have an alternative to use yours.
>
> Luis E. Rodriguez

> Are you a Maker? <http://www.makerfairekc.com/>

[Luis E. Rodriguez]

Cool stuff, I am on it! Thanks! I'll look out for the print quality issues. I have no doubt coding firmware is no small feat! Thanks to another open source contributor!

Luis E. Rodriguez

Are you a Maker?

[Dan Newman]

On 10 Oct 2012 , at 9:38 AM, Mark Cohen wrote:

> Cool with orbit?

No, just ordinary cool in which it slows the printing speed down to achieve
the target minimum per layer time.

Dan

[Dan Newman]

On 10 Oct 2012 , at 10:00 AM, Luis E. Rodriguez wrote:

> Works fine for me on my Cupcake and ToM.

Things work, it's just that the print quality suffers. The bug
is that distances are computed incorrectly which in turn causes
the speeds to be incorrectly computed. So, adjoining segments
can actually get printed at slightly different speeds. That in
turn causes some unwanted print defects. And, your mileage may
vary here: some models it may not be that apparent. However,
for some of the test models we use (e.g., squirrel) it's very
apparent when you compare it to squirrels printed with the
makerbot4ga or mightyboard drivers.

> I use the makerbot4g driver. Where
> is this bug documented Jetty?

It was reported directly to MBI. That the bug isn't in makerbot4ga
nor in mightyboard makes it fairly apparent that something is wrong:
both implementations cannot be correct. So, if it isn't a "bug"
in makerbot4g, one then has to explain why it's different (and works
better) in the other two drivers.

Dan

[Dan Newman]

On 10 Oct 2012 , at 10:51 AM, Luis E. Rodriguez wrote:

> Cool stuff, I am on it! Thanks! I'll look out for the print quality issues.
> I have no doubt coding firmware is no small feat! Thanks to another open
> source contributor!

There's the time we spend on coding firmware and then there's the time we
spend looking at very subtle differences in the prints and trying to understand
what causes them. Both are about equal time. Actually, maybe more time on the
understanding subtle issues in prints. However, the issue with the makerbot4g
driver in RepG wasn't that subtle. And that bug in the RepG driver turns out to
be why we historicallly made comments that Volumetric 5D just wasn't working well
for us on the ToM. It wasn't until we examples of things working well on the
Replicator, with its different RepG driver, that we then had strong evidence that
something was off somewhere. We just didn't know where that somewhere was.

Dan

[ddurant]

> But it seems that the issue may be that I need to go back to SF35

 

That's too bad. SF40+ was a *massive* change for the better for most people.

 

MBI would have done a much better favor for their customers if they'd gotten up to speed with the rest of the printing world instead of doing a spiffy new UI.. Instead, they're (still) 18+ months behind the rest of us. SF35 is almost 2 years old now.

 

If you can get volumetric 5D & SF50 working, it's worth the effort. If you can also get acceleration working well, that's also worth it.

 
On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 1:38:08 PM UTC-4, Mark Cohen wrote:

Because, I thought the head was too close to the plastic being laid
down on a pointy part of a print. But it seems that the issue may be
that I need to go back to SF35. I never really needed to worry about
cool before, as it just always worked with the defaults. I'll have to
give the prior version a try.

[Dan Newman]

On 18 Oct 2012 , at 8:43 AM, Andrew wrote:

>
> Hello
>
>
> First of all, thanks very much for providing this firmware for
> thingomatics.. It uploaded easily and I am using Replicatorg 39..
>
>
> My problem is this... Will an accelerated machine profile selected, and
> accelerated options all switched on (as per the instructions) my ToM with
> Stepstruder MK7 prints strange stretched objects…

You are using the Jetty 3.5 firmware, correct? (And not Sailfish.)

>
> Its like the x axis is stretched across the space.. When it begins a print
> the usually square outline is now oblong, and as I say, all prints are
> stretched in the x-axis... Ive replaced the firmware back to 3.1 but no
> luck..
>
> Im sure Im being daft - but I didnt think I would need to change other
> mechanical values as nothing has changed there..
>
> Any help is very gratefully received…


If you have a stock ToM
=======================
The bot has in EEPROM settings which tell it the steps per mm for each axis.
It may be that the memory location already had some value which was not 0xff
and also is not correct. You can, from RepG's Machine > Onboard Preferences
tell the bot to do a "Factory Reset". That will not lose your calibrations but
should set the steps per mm data to the correct, standard Thing-o-Matic
values.

It may also be that the DIP switches are set wrong on the X axis stepper driver
and ¼ microstepping has been selected instead of ⅛. Refer to the ToM assembly
directions for the electronics where it shows how to check this.

If you do not have a stock ToM
==============================

Did you used to use your own, custom machine profile (xml file) with
ReplicatorG beforehand?

When you switched to an accelerated profile, that profile had the default
steps per mm for each axis. It also sends that information to the bot.
The slicer (SF), RepG, and the bot thinks that your X axis has ~47 steps per mm.
So, to print 1mm along the X axis, the bot is executing 47 steps. However,
your X axis has LOWER resolution -- the steps per mm is a smaller number.
So, those 47 steps move the X platform farther than 1 mm producing a line
longer than 1 mm.

You will want to copy that machine .xml file and change the steps per mm
setting in it. Then, since you are using the 3.5 version of the Jetty Firmware,
you will need to send to the bot your new X axis resolution. If you have
a Gen 4 LCD interface, then you can do that using the LCD interface. Otherwise,
you will need to follow the directions at

http://wiki.makerbot.com/jetty-firmware-setting-parameters-without-a-gen4-interface

You only need to set this information once: the bot will save it in EEPROM.

(Note that for the Sailfish firmware, RepG will automatically send this
information to the bot for you.)

Dan

[Jwo Fox-Lee]

Are you printing from the SD card? When I switched to accelerated printing, I found my objects getting more and more oblong in one direction as the print went on, and printing from the SD card instead of the computer fixed this.

- Jwo

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 8:43 AM, Andrew <and...@greyworld.org> wrote:

Hello

First of all, thanks very much for providing this firmware for thingomatics.. It uploaded easily and I am using Replicatorg 39..

My problem is this... Will an accelerated machine profile selected, and accelerated options all switched on (as per the instructions) my ToM with Stepstruder MK7 prints strange stretched objects...

Its like the x axis is stretched across the space.. When it begins a print the usually square outline is now oblong, and as I say, all prints are stretched in the x-axis... Ive replaced the firmware back to 3.1 but no luck..

Im sure Im being daft - but I didnt think I would need to change other mechanical values as nothing has changed there..

Any help is very gratefully received...

Best wishes

Andrew

and...@greyworld.org

On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:13:31 PM UTC+1, Alison wrote:

There's a new version of ReplicatorG available, v0039 : http://code.google.com/p/replicatorg/downloads/list

ReplicatorG0039 features

* Added Replicator 2 Machine profile
* Added Profiles for Thing-o-matic with Skeinforge-50 and volumetric printing
* Added support for accelerated Thing-o-matic firmware.  MBI is hosting Jetty firmware v3.5
* bugfix for setting preheat on commit
* bugfix for commiting onboard preferences to Replicator(Single Extruder)
* bugfix for commiting oboard preferences to Thing-O-Matic

We're offering this to the makerbot operators a few days before posting it to general users.  If you try it out, feel free to provide feedback in this thread or to ali...@makerbot.com.

This version supports the Replicator2 and has built-in support for using skeinforge-50 with the TOM.  We're also excited to be hosting Jetty Firmware for the TOM.  Jetty Firmware implements acceleration and lots of nice features for users that have the interface kit.   We've also posted Jetty Firmware for cupcakes, which should be considered experimental.  Jetty Firmware is authored by MakerBot Operators jetty and dnewman. Their contact email is: jetty-firmware@googlegroups.com

Our docs manager melody put together some quick start instructions for updating your TOM firmware to v3.5 (Jetty Firmware) and running accelerated prints : 



1. How to prepare for the Jetty Thing-O-Matic Formware 3.5 Upgrade. 
In order to install Jetty Thing-O-Matic Firmware 3.5, you will need to do the following:
a.Have a MakerBot with either Gen 4 electronics or Gen 3 electronics and a
 3G5D Shield or "Ugly Cable Hack."  Keep in mind while this firmware is 
intended for both Thing-O-Matics and appropriately modified Cupcakes, 
use with the Cupcake should be considered experimental.
b. Know what kind of motherboard you have.
c. Update ReplicatorG to version 0039 : http://code.google.com/p/replicatorg/downloads/list 
If you're updating a bot with Gen 4 electronics, you'll also need to make 
sure your Extruder Controller firmware is updated to version 3.1[link]. 

2. How to update your bot.
a. Open ReplicatorG, go to the Machine menu, and select Upload new Firmware. 
b. Choose the type of motherboard you're updating and then select 3.5 from the list of available firmwares. 
c.When you come to the final screen of the upgrade process, press the 
reset button on your bot a fraction of a second before you hit the 
Upload button. It may take a couple of tries to get the timing right, 
but when you do you will see the debug light flash as the upload takes 
place. This is an ordinary firmware upgrade, so whatever method you have
 used to make firmware upgrades work in the past should work now.

3. How to get Jetty Firmware set up.
Once your bot is updated, go back to the Machine menu and select the correct
 Machine Type. This will be the machine type that best matches the 
description of your bot and how you will be using it.
Acceleration:
 If you are going to be printing at accelerated speeds, make sure to 
choose an accelerated machine type. Installing this firmware will add a 
new Acceleration checkbox in Onboard Preferences. If you want to print 
at accelerated speeds, check this box and choose an accelerated machine 
type. If you do not intend to print at accelerated speeds, leave this 
box unchecked, choose a non-accelerated machine type, and make sure to 
keep to the non-accelerated default speeds in Print-O-Matic.
Volumetric printing: If your bot is set up for volumetric printing, 
you will already be using the makerbot4g driver and Skeinforge 50 and 
your extruder direction will be reversed. Once you have updated to Jetty
 Thing-O-Matic Firmware 3.5, you will additionally have to go into the 
Miscellaneous tab in your Onboard Preferences and make sure that the 
Volumetric 5D Extruder checkbox is checked and the Clockwise Extruder 
checkbox is not. You will also want to choose a Volumetric machine type:
 these are already configured to use the makerbot4g driver.
If you are using a custom Skeinforge profile for volumetric 
printing, consider turning off the Dimension and Reversal plugins: Jetty
 firmware uses a feature called Deprime to accomplish the same goals, 
and the two alternative solutions don't work well together. We find that
 Deprime produces better results, but if you with to use Dimension and 
Reversal instead, it can be turned off in the Advanced Acceleration tab 
in Onboard Preferences.
Another change you may want to make to a custom Volumetric profile 
is to either set the perimeter rate multipliers in the Speed plugin to 
.5 or to turn on the Altshell plugin for a better surface finish on your
 prints. If you do turn on the Altshell plugin, make sure that the 
perimeter rate multipliers in the Speed plugin are set to 1.0.

For detailed instructions and configuration help, see : 
Install: http://wiki.makerbot.com/jetty-firmware-installation-guide
Setup: http://wiki.makerbot.com/jetty-firmware-setup-guide

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[Andrew Shoben]

hello

thanks very much for your help.

Im using a stock ToM, no sailfish and jetty 3.5

I did the factory reset and thing got quite a lot stranger.. Now, when moving the platform it bumps up against the end stops and will not stop, causing a terrible grinding noise - its like it forgot about the microswitches to tell it it had reached the limits of its motion...

Somehow, that factory reset has made it lose a whole lot more of its identity.. Is there a way to replace what was lost?

best wishes

Andrew

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[Andrew Plumb]

If you've been in the electronics bay, make sure the Z endstop is plugged into the correct socket.  More than once I accidentally plugged my own into the wrong one and observed that sort of behaviour.

Andrew.

--

"The future is already here.  It's just not very evenly distributed" -- William Gibson

Me: http://clothbot.com/wiki/

[Andrew Shoben]

hi

No, its not that  - not been anywhere near it.. just updated the firmware and replicatorg..

Its now behaving really oddly - i cant do a calibration, because the it grinds as soon as it wants to move in any direction..

Andrew Shoben
greyworld

http://greyworld.org
twitter: @greyworld
skype: greyworldskype

[Dan Newman]

On 18 Oct 2012 , at 10:12 AM, Andrew Shoben wrote:

> hello
>
> thanks very much for your help.
>
> Im using a stock ToM, no sailfish and jetty 3.5
>
> I did the factory reset and thing got quite a lot stranger.. Now, when
> moving the platform it bumps up against the end stops and will not stop,

Sounds like you sliced using a Replicator start gcode file. (Since the
Replicator homes in the opposite direction).

> causing a terrible grinding noise - its like it forgot about the
> microswitches to tell it it had reached the limits of its motion...
>
> Somehow, that factory reset has made it lose a whole lot more of its
> identity.. Is there a way to replace what was lost?

Did you do a factory reset (which leaves the axes offsets and axes inversions
unchanged), or did you do a reset eeprom which resets everything? The
behavior you're seeing could be that you had inverted one or more axes
intentionally in the past and having done a "reset eeprom" have now lost
those settings.

Dan

[Andrew Shoben]

hi

Ive never done any custom settings on the machine - always stock settings..

Did you do a factory reset (which leaves the axes offsets and axes inversions

unchanged), or did you do a reset eeprom which resets everything?

Ive now done both having panicked slightly..... How can I get the eeprom settings back to a default, untweaked ToM motherboard set?

 

 The
behavior you're seeing could be that you had inverted one or more axes
intentionally in the past and having done a "reset eeprom" have now lost
those settings.

Dan

[Andrew Shoben]

p.s Ive clicked the reset motherboard settings to factory defaults button, but it has not replaced what has been lost..

Andrew Shoben
greyworld

http://greyworld.org
twitter: @greyworld
skype: greyworldskype

[Andrew Shoben]

Im very grateful for your help - I do appreciate this.

What value should invert endstops / emergency stop be?

Andrew Shoben
greyworld

http://greyworld.org
twitter: @greyworld
skype: greyworldskype

[Dan Newman]

On 18 Oct 2012 , at 10:32 AM, Andrew Shoben wrote:

> hi
>
> Ive never done any custom settings on the machine - always stock settings..
> Did you do a factory reset (which leaves the axes offsets and axes
> inversions
>
>> unchanged), or did you do a reset eeprom which resets everything?
>
>
> Ive now done both having panicked slightly..... How can I get the eeprom
> settings back to a default, untweaked ToM motherboard set?

Having had done a reset, they are now literally in an untweaked, default ToM
state. You will need to now

1. Connect from RepG over USB. Open up Machine > Control Panel.

2. Then jog the different axes around to ensure that they move in the expected
directions. You will need to set or unset the axes invert settings in
Onboard Preferences to alter any incorrect direction. See the Testing Your
Axes section of http://wiki.makerbot.com/thingomatic-doc:testing-your-bot .

3. Run the calibration script to set you x, y, and z axes offsets. RepG's
File > Scripts > Calibration > Thing-o-Matic calibration.gcode

Dan

[Dan Newman]

On 18 Oct 2012 , at 10:36 AM, Andrew Shoben wrote:

> Im very grateful for your help - I do appreciate this.
>
> What value should invert endstops

Whichever values makes your bot move the correct direction. See
"Testing Your Axes" at http://wiki.makerbot.com/thingomatic-doc:testing-your-bot .
The reason there is no correct setting is because the stepper driver to stepper
motor cables are not polarized or keyed: depending upon which way you plugged
the wires in, the motor will go one direction or the other when given a step+
command.

> / emergency stop be?

Typically "No emergency stop installed"

The invert endstop setting is typically "no endstops installed".

Dan

[Andrew Shoben]

thanks. This is definately the problem.

My problem now (Im sorry to say) is that the x axis is inverted, but checking the invert box in the control panel does not change it. Ill keep looking

Andrew Shoben
greyworld

http://greyworld.org
twitter: @greyworld
skype: greyworldskype

Dan

[Dan Newman]

On 18 Oct 2012 , at 10:44 AM, Andrew Shoben wrote:

> thanks. This is definately the problem.
>
> My problem now (Im sorry to say) is that the x axis is inverted, but
> checking the invert box in the control panel does not change it. Ill keep
> looking

You do need to "commit" the setting so that it is transmitted to the bot.
that then causes the bot to reboot and you then need to reconnect from
RepG over USB.

Dan

[Andrew Shoben]

Hey

Its all good now - thanks to you, Im back where I should be. Thanks ever so much, its extremely good of you to help me.

During that process, I downgraded the firmware to 3.1 - maybe Ill feel brave enough to try that again after some fish and chips.

Best wishes

Andrew Shoben
greyworld

http://greyworld.org
twitter: @greyworld
skype: greyworldskype

Dan

[Andrew Shoben]

p.s just in case you have a brainwave..

When the jetty firmware went back on, and after the motherboard has been reset, we still get prints that are about 2x too wide...! Perhaps its something in the replicatorg machine profile - im using thingomatic w HBP MK7 (accelerated) one.. Without the jetty firmware /  replicatorg 39 all is good

Andrew Shoben
greyworld

http://greyworld.org
twitter: @greyworld
skype: greyworldskype

[Andrew Shoben]

its definitely replicatorg 39 - repg 37 doesnt cause the problem..

Andrew Shoben
greyworld

http://greyworld.org
twitter: @greyworld
skype: greyworldskype

[Andrew]

Hey

Just to say I got it fixed - it was a corruption in an xml file in repg 39 - weird, but fixed, and now Im printing like a superstar..

Is it worth slicing objects with anything newer that SF35? And should I print everything from the SD card?

best wishes and thanks for the firmware - the machine even sounds better!

Andrew

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[Alison Leonard]

Cool!

You can configure the 3.5 firmware to work with Skeinforge 50.  You'd use one of the Accelerated Volumetric Machine Types.  You also need to check 5D extruder and uncheck ClockWise Extruder in onboard Preferences.  Also, the filament direction is reversed with the 5D driver, so you'll need to reverse the A_AXIS direction in Onboard Preferences too.

Jetty has also released Sailfish firmware for TOM, which is specifically configured to work with skeinforge 50.  You may want to try that.  MBI will fully support Sailfish for TOMs in the near future.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/makerbot/-/p6H9JVt3cIkJ.

To post to this group, send email to make...@googlegroups.com.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/makerbot?hl=en.

--

Alison Leonard

Engineer
MakerBot Industries
87 3rd Avenue, FL #1
Brooklyn, NY. 11217

P:347-334-6800 x514


http://makerbot.com/blog

http://thingiverse.com

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[Andrew Shoben]

Thanks Alison - appreciated..

Can you explain what the volumetric bit means? What are its benefits?

best wishes

Andrew Shoben
greyworld

http://greyworld.org
twitter: @greyworld
skype: greyworldskype

[Alison Leonard]

Volumetric is 5D.  It means that Extruder axes are treated the same as XYZ axes rather than using RPM commands.  Skeinforge 50 uses 5D (Volumetric), so that's why you need to use a Volumetric machine type.

The terminology gets a bit confusing because there is more than one definition of 5D.  So we decided to use the term Volumetric, since it only has one definition wrt to printing.  

[Andrew Shoben]

Ah ha! Thanks for that..

one more teeny question!

Is there any advantage to using skeinforge 50 and a volumetric driver over skeinforge 35 and an accelerated driver?

Should I use the skeinforge 47 profile?

Andrew Shoben
greyworld

http://greyworld.org
twitter: @greyworld
skype: greyworldskype

[Alison Leonard]

skeinforge 50 is generally thought to be better than skeinforge 35 but if you're getting good prints with 35, Its completely fine to keep using it.  Skeinforge 50 has some fixes for known bugs and the Volumetric printing is considered more accurate.

If you want to switch over to skeinforge 50, you're probably going to get the best results if you upgrade to the Sailfish firmware.  Though 3.5 does work with the configurations discussed earlier.  Again, MBI will support Sailfish fully in the near future.  

[Dan Newman]

On 19 Oct 2012 , at 7:02 AM, Andrew wrote:

> Hey
>
> Just to say I got it fixed - it was a corruption in an xml file in repg 39
> - weird, but fixed, and now Im printing like a superstar..
>
> Is it worth slicing objects with anything newer that SF35? And should I
> print everything from the SD card?
>
> best wishes and thanks for the firmware - the machine even sounds better!

If you are using the Jetty Firmware (v3.5 or earlier), then you're better
off sticking to SF-35. The issue is subtle: if you move to a newer SF, then
you might as well go whole hog and move to SF-50. However, SF-50 really
focuses on Volumetric 5D. To use 5D with the Jetty Firmware, you must
used RepG's "makerbot4g" driver. That driver has a bug in it which leads
to slightly reduced print quality. (YMMV depending upon what the model
is.) So, with the Jetty Firmware you can do Volumetric 5D but you're
just as well off (arguably better off) if you stick to non-5D and hence
you're fine with SF-35. At least until MBI fixes the issue in RepG.
(It's been reported. Not hard to see it's a bug since the other drivers
in RepG don't have it in their equivalent code.)

BUT, if you want to jump to SF-50 and Volumetric 5D, you can upgrade to
Sailfish.

Dan

[Dan Newman]

> Cool!
>
> You can configure the 3.5 firmware to work with Skeinforge 50. You'd use
> one of the Accelerated Volumetric Machine Types. You also need to check 5D
> extruder and uncheck ClockWise Extruder in onboard Preferences. Also, the
> filament direction is reversed with the 5D driver, so you'll need to
> reverse the A_AXIS direction in Onboard Preferences too.

Yes, those are the steps (which I omitted from my e-mail). You may want
to try this before jumping to Sailfish. 'tis up to you. And the
subtle quality differences I mentioned may or may not be evident to you:
depends upon the model and then what sort of reference pieces you have.

> Jetty has also released Sailfish firmware for TOM, which is specifically
> configured to work with skeinforge 50. You may want to try that. MBI will
> fully support Sailfish for TOMs in the near future.

Awesome!

Dan

[Dan Newman]

On 19 Oct 2012 , at 7:51 AM, Andrew Shoben wrote:

> Ah ha! Thanks for that..
>
> one more teeny question!
>
> Is there any advantage to using skeinforge 50 and a volumetric driver over
> skeinforge 35 and an accelerated driver

To reinforce Alison's response, SF-50 with Volumetric 5D will generally give you better
results with the only caveat being those subtle, YMMV issues with the existing makerbot4g
driver in RepG 39 and earlier. (Don't know offhand if a fix is in the works.) With Sailfish,
you don't have to worry about the makerbot4g driver issue since "RepG 39 - Sailfish" side steps
the issue.

And when Vol 5D doesn't give better results than RPM on a stepper based extruder, it gives
as good as results (as far as I can tell).

Dan

[Andrew Shoben]

Dan and Alison

Thanks ever so much for that detail and summary - its great to finally understand it.

All of these things effect the gcode that is generated - so it makes no difference whether, once the code is created, it is printed direct from replicatorg or from the sd card, right?

Thanks again

Andrew Shoben
greyworld

http://greyworld.org
twitter: @greyworld
skype: greyworldskype

Dan

[Dan Newman]

On 19 Oct 2012 , at 8:58 AM, Andrew Shoben wrote:

> Dan and Alison
>
> Thanks ever so much for that detail and summary - its great to finally
> understand it.
>
> All of these things effect the gcode that is generated - so it makes no
> difference whether, once the code is created, it is printed direct from
> replicatorg or from the sd card, right?

It should make no difference. However, there can be problems when printing
over USB: laptop goes to sleep; you run some program which consumes a lot
of CPU, pages a lot, or similar and then RepG starts being slow to send new
commands to the bot; etc. So do what works for you.

Dan

[ddurant]

> Can you explain what the volumetric bit means?

 

Volumetric 5D is 5D but 5D is not necessarily Volumetric.

 

5D was introduced to SF around version 12 - it's been around for a long time. SF changed from straight, old-school 5D to volumetric 5D at version 40.

 

The original 5D was a good step forward in that it put almost everything the firmware needed to be doing on each line of gcode: the destination x/y/z points (3 dimensions) plus a time component (feed rate; 4th dimension) plus the length of plastic that should come out of the nozzle (5th dimension).

 

This was good but the gcode E component (extrusion length) of the original 5D was too fuzzy - the length of plastic coming out of the nozzle will vary based on things like nozzle size and the plastic being used and temperature and how quickly you're extruding and etc, etc.. Even using the same plastic at the same temperature on the same nozzle, things like die swell will cause the length to change (same volume but different length/width) at different flow rates.

 

Volumetric 5D fixed this by changing what the E component means from the fuzzy 'noodle length out of the nozzle' to 'length of raw filament into the extruder drive.' This is a better way to do things because if the slicer knows your filament diameter, it can do some pretty simple math to figure out the volume of the thread it wants and what length of raw filament is needed to get that volume out of the nozzle.

 

In other words, Volumetric 5D changed 5D so that each line of gcode now specifies the volume of plastic needed do draw that line in an unambiguous way. A gcode file that was generated for a machine with, say, a 0.5mm nozzle and very slow acceleration settings will (within reason) work on a machine with a 0.25mm nozzle and very agressive acceleration settings.

 

It's not a perfect solution but it was a pretty big step forward.

 

It's also not at all experimental tech. 5D has been around for 2 1/2 years and Volumetric 5D has been around for over 1 1/2 years.. Except for one company, everybody switched to using this stuff a long time ago.