Why is this print's surface so terrible?

[Lincoln K]

I've never had a print come out like this before.  Any thoughts?

[Doogiekr]

looks like WAY too much plastic to me... but there might be another reason...

[Fastrack]

Looks like the slicer forgot the perimeter? Fire up repeater host and see what it looks like layer by layer.... Either way cool effect looks like mould.. Lol. If you do figure out the issue let us know.. Could be handy for certain objects:)

Ben

[JohnA.]

I had the same problem ages ago:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jabella/7615987398/in/photostream/

Rumor / consensus at that point was that it was a firmware bug related to acceleration.

JohnA.

[Dan Newman]

On 15 Nov 2012 , at 8:18 PM, Lincoln K wrote:

> I've never had a print come out like this before. Any thoughts?

Is this your roll of filament whose diameter was varying a lot (which you
mentioned on 8 Nov 2012)? Also, the top surface to the right of the photo
looks like way to much plastic. And that's consistent with what the sides
look like. When there's way too much plastic, the bottom starts out
more or less fine and then things start getting worse and worse and worse
the higher up the print you go. This has that look.

Dan

[Jetty]

Which printer? Which firmware?

[Lincoln K]

Thanks for the thoughts everyone.

I am using a replicator 1 with the Jetty firmware.  I haven't updated to the newest one, I am using 6.2  It was working fine until now.

I am not using the filament that varies in size that I had talked about before.  I am trying to print the extruder upgrade so I can use the wonky filament, but that is what is in the picture.  It isn't printing well, and therefore not lining up right when installing it on the extruder motor.

I tried reducing the filament size in the setting when slicing it, but that didn't help.

[Joseph Chiu]

You need to go the other direction -- to use a larger filament size when slicing -- so that it thinks a higher amount of plastic per revolution is being extruded.  If you have too much plastic, telling the slicer that the filament is thinner will result in the output trying to push even more plastic than before.

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[Dan Newman]

Reducing the filament size causes *more* filament to be extruded, not less.
You need to increase the declared filament size so that the slicer thinks
that it needs to feed less filament for the same amount of output.

Dan

[Jetty]

My guess is that it's something settings related.  Go back to skein forge defaults, sailfish firmware defaults.

Double check that the extruder pinch wheel has it's grub screw screwed in enough to grip the stepper shaft.

Tune steps per mm.

Reslice your items.

[Lincoln K]

I originally printed it (the one in the photo) at 1.78 because I forgot to measure the filament before slicing it.  When I measured it after the first print, it was 1.75

So, since 1.78 seemed to put out too much plastic, what number should I try next?

It's a piece that is supposed to be printed at 100% fill, so I hate to waist so much plastic and time if it keeps printing wrong.

I've also, the second attempt was made using the left extruder instead of the right (which was used for the one in the picture).

The first print was sliced using tweaked settings that had been working great for other prints.  The second was done using the replicator default settings.  Same problem.

I love when my makerbot is working correctly, but I have had it for a few months now, and have spent way more time trying to get it to work, than actually printing with it.  :(

[Dan Newman]

Lincoln K wrote:
> I originally printed it (the one in the photo) at 1.78 because I
> forgot to measure the filament before slicing it. When I measured it
> after the first print, it was 1.75
>
> So, since 1.78 seemed to put out too much plastic, what number should
> I try next?
>
> It's a piece that is supposed to be printed at 100% fill, so I hate to
> waist so much plastic and time if it keeps printing wrong.

Try 20 x 20 x 10 mm calibration cubes first. I'd try declaring a
filament diameter of 1.9. (I had some white
ABS from MBI for which I was doing the equivalent of declaring around
1.94 mm.)

And, if doing 100% fill, do NOT use hexagonal fill since there's a bug
in SF-50 when you select 100% fill
and the Fill plugin has hexagonal fill selected.

Dan

[Fastrack]

What type of infill are using?   Hex has a bug with 100% (too much plastic), Rect seems to work fine, which is what I use all the time now, Line is the best for 100% from what I've read.

Ben

[Lincoln K]

I am not using the hex fill, I am using rectangular.

Here's an image of another model using a different filament also from MBI.

This one was done with 10% fill, and as you can see in the photo, the surface doesn't look good here either.  The oddest thing to me is first few layers look fatter than the rest.  In the model, it of course doesn't look like that.

I understand the suggestion to put in a much larger size for the filament perimeter, but shouldn't the number be based on the actual size of the filament?  That method used to work ok. 

Thanks again for all the help everyone.  If you guys weren't here to help in these situations, I'd have to give up on trying to get my Makerbot working since this whole process is too confusing for me to figure out on my own.

[RocketSled]

Check all your belts and pulleys to make sure the Belts and pulley Grub Screws are tight.  If any are loose, be sure the pulley hasn't moved before you tighten it down.  Don't forget that there are grub screws inside the filament feeder, on the pinch wheel.

If nothing appears to be loose (I'd be surprised if that's the case unless you've been doing PM and snugging things down regularly.  I've had at least 6 different grubs loosen up on my Rep1 in the first 2 months of ownership and I'm not that heavy a user), then this looks similar to a  problem I was having after upgrading my Rep1 to MBI 6.whatever FW.  The first few layers were good and the rest were crappy, or the first few were crappy and the rest were good.  When I subsequently updated to Sailfish, the problem went away.

[Fastrack]

Hey now after seeing your second picture... it actually reminds me of a really bad printing surface I had... I dried my filament in the oven.  I set it to the lowest setting (170F).  The first time I put the filament spools directly on the rack and the spool holders warped like crazy.  Second time I did it I put the spools on a block of marble (a piece of wood would probably work too) with no warping of the spools.  Leave the door open a crack so the moisture can escape.  I left it for 4hrs.  The print quality was perfect after that.

Ben

[Lincoln K]

Thanks Ben, but I don't think that would work here since the filament used in the photo was brand new out of the box.  Also, it tested at 1.75 on the width, so I don't think it has excess moisture in it.

Rocketsled, I'll check the screws.  I did tighten them not that long ago, but it's worth double checking.

[Lincoln K]

Checked all the screws, and they were as tight as could be already.  

Any other thoughts?

[Clinton Hoines]

Up your filiment to at least 1.86. I have a roll of white ABS form Makerbot as well and I have to run it at 1.89 to look proper, run the black at 1.84. Must be the white melts and rund different.

I would at least just try a small print at a high dia just to see what you get.

 

Clinton

[Dan Newman]

Well, if you had MBI firmware installed, I'd say you were seeing their bug
in which the print quality goes south after 10mm of Z height. But I believe
you've indicated otherwise.

Dan

[Lincoln K]

Yes Dan, I am using Sailfish not MBI firmware.  I just printed the 20mm calibration cube, and the size was 19.90 by 19.99.  Is that considered OK, or not?  The worse part was that the bottom 1mm sticks out another .5mm more than the rest of the walls, and has the odd tiny blobs along the edges that can also be seen in the round blue model in my other post.

[Dan Newman]

On 17 Nov 2012 , at 2:58 PM, Lincoln K wrote:

> Yes Dan, I am using Sailfish not MBI firmware. I just printed the 20mm
> calibration cube, and the size was 19.90 by 19.99. Is that considered OK,

If your personal requirements are +/- 0.1 mm, then it's okay. If you
need tighter tolerances, then you need to calibrate your x and/or y axis
steps per mm.

> The worse part was that the bottom 1mm sticks out another .5mm
> more than the rest of the walls,

That's normal if you print raftless. Also not unusual with a fairly hot HBP.

> and has the odd tiny blobs along the edges
> that can also be seen in the round blue model in my other post.

Printing over USB or SD card? Also, the odd behavior up higher reminds
me of Andrew Plumb's prints when he found his spool of plastic was having
variable friction as the spool unwound (there were times it resisted
unwinding).

Dan

[Andrew Plumb]

For reference, here's what it my prints looked like with the sticky filament spool:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aplumb/8131558800/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aplumb/8146185951/

Andrew.

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[Lincoln K]

Thanks for the info guys.

I am printing over sd card.

I think even though it's more than an hour drive away, I probably should go to the LA makerbot meetup tomorrow.  Maybe someone looking at this stuff in person could help me get it taken care of.