Messing around at 50 and 10 micron :)

[Clinton Hoines]

SO just for fun thought I would try a print at 50 microns last night before I turned in. Put this on (the squirrel) right after I printed a .27mm layer part didn't re level the bed or anything just hit print and let er go. :)

Replicator (1) running sailfish

Fill 15%  Layer H .05  shell 1  feedrate  80mm/s  travel 160  temp 185

Print is 41mm high which is 820 layers.

 

Also tried a print this morning at 10 microns just beofre heading to work. Same as before just poped off the squirrel and started printing. Didn't stick after the first 4-5 layers so I put down some blue painters tape with 1/4 trun on the plate screws and worked great. (stuck)

fill 10%  layer H .01 shell  2  feedrate 80mm/s  travel 160 temp 185

Print is 22.3mm high which is 2230 layers.

 

This one printed pretty good but as you can see has artifacts on the outter shell here and there, I was happy it actually printed. :)

Anyone have any idea on what I would tune to make these go away or at least less noticable?

Few more pics here if anyone is interested.

 

 

 

 

[Tyler Pope]

Wow. Nice work.

Have you found that your programs get too big when slicing an object at 50 microns? I had problems in RepG when I tried it.

[Dan Newman]

On 10 Nov 2012 , at 8:04 PM, Clinton Hoines wrote:

> SO just for fun thought I would try a print at 50 microns last night before I turned in. Put this on (the squirrel) right after I printed a .27mm layer part didn't re level the bed or anything just hit print and let er go. :)
> Replicator (1) running sailfish
> Fill 15% Layer H .05 shell 1 feedrate 80mm/s travel 160 temp 185
> Print is 41mm high which is 820 layers.

Nice.

> Also tried a print this morning at 10 microns just beofre heading to work. Same as before just poped off the squirrel and started printing. Didn't stick after the first 4-5 layers so I put down some blue painters tape with 1/4 trun on the plate screws and worked great. (stuck)
> fill 10% layer H .01 shell 2 feedrate 80mm/s travel 160 temp 185
> Print is 22.3mm high which is 2230 layers.

Set deprime = 0 and see if you get better results. There's so little plastic being put out
at those layer heights that deprime is of little value. Also, for something that small you don't want
too large of a time set in the Cool plugin (e.g., 5 seconds at most, maybe lower).

Dan

[Clinton Hoines]

No actually not this time I'm guessing they are small enough that it wasn't an issue. The 10 micron file size is actually  a fair bit bigger file is  18.MB the 50 micron squirrel is 6.4mb.

[Clinton Hoines]

Oh and thanks guys bot s working fantastic since the Firmware upgrade, it's magic. :)

 

Forgot to put those in actually figured those would be the ones to adjust first. The deprime has been set at zero since upgradeing to sailfish.  The cool plugin is set to .5 right now as I was having issues printing anything small and that seemed to be the issue it would sit and put a big ball of plastic on the top layer (how ever many I put for fill)

Anything else? :)

 

Clinton

[Shawn]

Have you tried adjusting your steps per mm value(s)? I had problems
with the heart gears putting out too much plastic and not pieces not
fitting. After adjusting the steps per mm, it worked much better. I
can see how this might be a factor when printing very low layer heights.
(see this thread if this seems a possibility for you:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/jetty-firmware/Gzxb7GQYJFc)
Just a thought.

Oh, also with the lower layer heights, you probably need to indicate
more layers for the top/bottom to get something meaningful. (at 0.01,
the standard three layers for the bottom is still only 0.03mm thick -
likely not enough for most things...)

Shawn

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[Clinton Hoines]

Ok not quite sure how to tune the steps per mm values. I found that my filament is nowhere a constant size, jammed up on the last 3 prints so I checked it out. It varies from 1.70 all the way to bumps that are 2.27mm  O-O so I can't even begin to think it is the machine at this point. I'll order some new filament and see what it does at that point. :)

 

Clinton

[Dan Newman]

On 11 Nov 2012 , at 11:59 AM, Clinton Hoines wrote:

> Ok not quite sure how to tune the steps per mm values. I found that my
> filament is nowhere a constant size, jammed up on the last 3 prints so I
> checked it out. It varies from 1.70 all the way to bumps that are 2.27mm
> O-O so I can't even begin to think it is the machine at this point. I'll
> order some new filament and see what it does at that point. :)

Where did that filament come from? That's quite a large variation.

Dan

[Clinton Hoines]

It came from http://www.voxelfactory.com/  Since I'm in Canada and they are a really good price. I sent them a email about this since I was ready to order another 6 rolls tomorrow morning. :/

The first roll went smooth the whole way never had an issue at all, this one is just junk and I can't seem to use it at all. Every few meters has bumps that jam up the extruder gear.

 

[Clinton Hoines]

Hmm only one pic went through.

 

[Dan Newman]

On 11 Nov 2012 , at 1:53 PM, Clinton Hoines wrote:

> It came from http://www.voxelfactory.com/ Since I'm in Canada and they are
> a really good price. I sent them a email about this since I was ready to
> order another 6 rolls tomorrow morning. :/
> The first roll went smooth the whole way never had an issue at all, this
> one is just junk and I can't seem to use it at all. Every few meters has
> bumps that jam up the extruder gear.
>

> <https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-nYXVZVU0JUw/UKAdfr2e2BI/AAAAAAAAABs/Fo0k7flGRyE/s1600/IMG_1021.JPG>

Wow…. That's not good. And was that the filament you used for your 0.01 mm layer height
print? Sure would explain some of the issues you saw.

Dan

[Clinton Hoines]

Yes sir it was the filament for both the .05 and .01 print. Amazing they actually printed at all.

I hope this was just a bad roll and they make it right, would like to be able to order more through them as they were great to deal with first time round.

 

Clinton

[Nathan Ryan]

Please update re: voxel when you find out more. Im also in canada and was thinking of ordering from them, but not if the qc is bad.

Also, nice prints.

[Andrew Plumb]

I've been printing fine with Voxel Factory filament for a while now.  There is a reason it's significantly cheaper - there is a larger variation in filament diameter and shape than the more expensive options.  They publish the filament diameter variation as 1.75+/-0.1mm which is consistent with the measurements I've taken (currently 1.70mm) and the stock plunger-based design isn't able to accommodate it.  You really do need to upgrade your extruders with a spring-loaded mod (e.g. http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:28241) to ride over the filament variation.

The only issue I've run into was of my own doing.  The spool wasn't rotating freely enough on spool holder, resulting in some binding and fragile builds at low speed-points in the acceleration curve.  Once I modified my spool holder the problems went away.

Andrew. 

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[Clinton Hoines]

Yes get there would be a variation of sorts for sure, but did you look at my caliper readings? It varies from 1.6mm to  2.26mm Not the .1mm they advertise. ;)

 

And yes been running the simplistic mod for quite awhile now it is for sure the only way to go that plunger based setup is very shoddy to say the least.

 

Clinton

[Andrew Plumb]

I'd definitely ping Francois about that 2.26mm reading.  I'm not seeing anywhere near that much variation on the three spools I've used to date. I have another three I haven't unpacked yet.

Is that with the PLA or ABS?  Mine is all PLA.

Andrew.

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[Clinton Hoines]

PLA is 99% of what I print still have the white ABS the machine came with in the bag sealed and the black was used for 2 prints.

 

He did replay it is easier for me to just quote the email here.

 

"The plastic is cheap and it sometimes happen.

I can refund it if you send it back to me so that I can see by myself.
I trust you it as some bump from what I see.

However 2.27mm is very high, I think the caliper and plastic has angle when the picture was taken.

I am selling more than 100 Kg a month and might have refund 1 spool a month so far.
We also make many workshop and for ourself and most customers, our plastic is fair enough."

 

That is great that he will refund and has done so but if that is a regular thing than I would rather buy higher qualitly filament.

 

I was going to just order form  RobotShop since they are actually cheaper, but have decided to just order the Makerbot filament since it worked without issue and it was within the .1mm they claim. It's almost twice the price but if you can't finish a print with every second roll of  the cheap plastic it'll be cheaper and less wasted time. :)

 

Clinton

 

You could go with a better plastic to avoid sometimes having a bad spool or keep ordering from me and if there is a bad spool, I refund both way shipping and plastic if I confirm it is defective.

[Andrew Plumb]

Definitely return the bad filament if you're confident with your measurements.  It will give him something concrete he can show his supplier(s) and hopefully tighten up.

And yes, I use the MakerBot filament when precision matters more to me than quantity. I'm not expecting to see real-time filament diameter measurement built into the extruders any time soon, to allow for tighter closed-loop control of the extruded filament volume.

Andrew.

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[Andrew Plumb]

I get my bearings via http://www.vxb.com/

If you can't track down the springs, you might want to try this variant instead: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:32315

Andrew.

On 2012-11-14, at 10:47 PM, Eric wrote:

I just ordered 2 spools from Voxel Factory; I hope they are within the .1mm.

I want to complete the simplistic mod, is there anywhere in Canada that I can order the parts online? I reside in a very remote area.

Cheers,

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[Dan Newman]

On 14 Nov 2012 , at 8:07 PM, Andrew Plumb wrote:

> I get my bearings via http://www.vxb.com/

+1. And the nice thing is that they are on the drive to my parents' home.

Dan

[Clinton Hoines]

Where are you in Canda? You can get bearings form pretty much any hobby store that is where I bought mine for the mod and the paper clip one is what I used as well, works prefect unless the filament is 2+mm. ;)

 

On Wednesday, 14 November 2012 20:47:59 UTC-7, Eric wrote:

I just ordered 2 spools from Voxel Factory; I hope they are within the .1mm.

I want to complete the simplistic mod, is there anywhere in Canada that I can order the parts online? I reside in a very remote area.

Cheers,

On Sunday, November 11, 2012 6:40:58 PM UTC-7, Clinton Hoines wrote:

[Doogiekr]

And as I have mentioned in a few other threads, it is really easy for me to edit my version (32315) if you have a different bearing size laying around that you want to use. just let me know what size it is and I can drop in a digital copy to see if its feasible (doesn't hit anything, etc) and make the changes for you...

[Eric]

haha, a place called Inuvik in the Northwest Territories - in the arctic circle; google it if you want to see how far way from everything it is. Thanks for the info, i'll checkout vxb.com.

[Eric]

Thanks Andrew, that is an awesome mod; printing right now. I'm fairly new to 3d printing, but i can't print anything under .15mm without ending up with a rat nest of PLA (pict included :) ); the extruder doesn't kick in or the PLA doesn't stick. Right now i'm assuming it is because of the ambient temp in the house, around 18 C. I have painter's tape down, but still no luck. I'm open to suggestions if you have any.

[Dan Newman]

On 14 Nov 2012 , at 8:55 PM, Eric wrote:

> haha, a place called Inuvik in the Northwest Territories - in the arctic
> circle; google it if you want to see how far way from everything it is.

Well, I thought, "How much farther can it be than Whitehorse (where a friend
of mine lives)?" Answer, pretty far. But google says I can drive between the
two in 22 hours and 52 minutes. Google must not take the time of year into
account….

Dan

[Clinton Hoines]

This is the mod I'm running as well just so you know it works.

 

And for your PLA not sticking try wiping your painters tape with acetone or rubbing alcohol to clean it of all oils left by your hands and give it a little tack. If you use rubbing alcohol the tape will be stuck to your print really well.

On Saturday, 10 November 2012 21:04:05 UTC-7, Clinton Hoines wrote:

SO just for fun thought I would try a print at 50 microns last night before I turned in. Put this on (the squirrel) right after I printed a .27mm layer part didn't re level the bed or anything just hit print and let er go. :)

Replicator (1) running sailfish

Fill 15%  Layer H .05  shell 1  feedrate  80mm/s  travel 160  temp 185

Print is 41mm high which is 820 layers.

 

Also tried a print this morning at 10 microns just beofre heading to work. Same as before just poped off the squirrel and started printing. Didn't stick after the first 4-5 layers so I put down some blue painters tape with 1/4 trun on the plate screws and worked great. (stuck)

fill 10%  layer H .01 shell  2  feedrate 80mm/s  travel 160 temp 185

Print is 22.3mm high which is 2230 layers.

 

[Greg Thorstad]

Try moving the bed a little closer to the printhead when you level the platform.  Try a thinner sheet of paper.  The first layer needs to squish into the platform so it will stick but as the layer heights get smaller the gap between the head and platform becomes more important because the layer is thinner. 

 

 

Greg Thorstad, B. Comm.
Thorstad Computer/Thor3d.ca/Canadian Makerbot Distributor
Box 268
Outlook, SK
S0L 2N0
306 867-9596

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[Jetty]

> haha, a place called Inuvik in the Northwest Territories - in the arctic
> circle; google it if you want to see how far way from everything it is.
> Thanks for the info, i'll checkout vxb.com.

No Tim Hortons ! (but you do have Buffalo Airways popping in from
time to time, hope they
bring up Tim Bits occasionally).

Replicator's have made it to the arctic circle ! MBI should do an
article on you :-)

Smart too, with most stuff having to be ordered in and being slow to
get there, I bet a guy that can print out
custom stuff on the spot could create quite a business up there.

I bet you have a few stories to tell too.

[Eric]

Yea, no Tim Hortons :(. I do miss it and movie theaters, and malls, and highways... I could go on.

 No Buffalo Airways this far north sadly, they fly pretty close but just outside the circle.

Once I dial in the Rep 2 I intend on opening up a side business, printing out various things. Most of the people hear are amazed at the few items I have printed thus far. Believe it or not, our cellular network was recently upgraded, as such, everyone is buy Iphones... so I'm going to sell custom I phone cases... I hope.

I have thought about making a sign for MBI; a picture outside the welcome sign or something; we will see.

On a different note, thanks guys for the alcohol swab advise, the items stick to the board with extreme adhesion (almost too much). I'm down to .12mm, and working out the kinks.

Greg: I did move the bed slightly closer to the extruder which also seems to have helped, thanks for the info; I was reluctant to move it any closer in fear of the extruder scraping the surface, but thus far it is all good.

Cheers, 

[Dan Newman]

> On a different note, thanks guys for the alcohol swab advise, the items
> stick to the board with extreme adhesion (almost too much).

Umm, yes. At small layer heights, the adhesion can be a problem. When
I first started printing at 0.1 mm with ABS, I discovered that pretty fast.
Note tht PLA sticks very aggressively to acrylic which is one of the reasons
people use the blue tape: not because it sticks better to blue tape, but
rather because it's a little easier to get off the blue tape than the
acrylic itself. And the blue tape gives you a protective layer incase
the leveling got off somehow and now the build platform is at risk of
being permanently etched by the nozzle.

> Greg: I did move the bed slightly closer to the extruder which also seems
> to have helped, thanks for the info; I was reluctant to move it any closer
> in fear of the extruder scraping the surface, but thus far it is all good.

Safest way is to gently increase the Z home offset. I advise folks to be
patient and do it in small increments of 0.02 or 0.025 mm. Print a layer or
two, cancel the print, evaluate, and adjust.

Dan

[Jetty]

OT:

>  No Buffalo Airways this far north sadly, they fly pretty close but just
> outside the circle.

I thought Buffalo Air Express had service from Norman Wells to Inuvik,
are they subbing it out to another airline?

They did have FBAP (one of their DC-4's) to help bomb the fire you had
up there near Noell Lake in June last year.

Also there was a Buffalo Canso (FNJE) which had a controlled crash
landing on a training flight just outside of Inuvik (Sitidgi Lake) in
2001,
last I heard it was dragged out across the tundra, to the Dempster
Highway, barged down the MacKenzie River and it
is in the process of being restored by 6 farmers in Fairview, Alberta.