It's too complicated. A logo needs to be visually very simple.
I do like the monochrome color scheme; a good logo should be
recognizable in silhouette.
Very few successful logos are illustrations. (Oddly, many outdoorsman
supply stores are exceptions to this rule, with detailed illustrations
of a fish or duck.)
Consider the various logos Doubletree Hotel has had. Some are so
simplistic they could count as a newly-invented punctuation mark (an
ideal quality in a logo, for some purposes). When they draw one or
more trees, they use fine-grained complexity, but the eye does not
have to pick out any detail. It just gives a gestalt impression of an
object we are all trained to recognize in a flash. The logotype, when
included with the logo as one piece, is large enough to take
prominence. The same could be said of the Fruit of the Loom logo.
These are the exceptions that prove the rule.
A quick impression (such as a logo) must not carry too many concepts
that need to be interpreted.
-Matt
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I'm one of those who don't like the current lojban logo, so I very
welcome new ideas!
Your proposal, however, seems too complex and would need too much
interpretation.
I can't remember anyone else exploring the triangle as basic shape for
a lojban logo, so maybe there's room in that direction to explore
further.
I'm a supporter of the "bridi man" concept, but the more ideas we can
develop, the better positioned we'll be for when we'll have the next
global discussion on changing the jbolanci.
remod
You can invent a meaningless glyph, and decide it now means that
concept. Example: biohazard trefoil.
Or, take an easily recognizable object and decide it now means that
concept. Example: World Wildlife Foundations panda logo.
What you don't want to do is include difficult-to-recognize objects,
or a scene with many details. Example: a scaly anteater operating a
welder.
-Matt
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Hmm. Just some rough thoughts. For representing "logic" the most basic/fundamental concept is the law of identity pe'i. So what about something like:
X=X
Or some such. Maybe some symbol other than "X" if a different symbol would look better?
1 is not prime, it's a unit. Seeing the sequence 1,2,3,5, I expected it to
continue 8,13, and was puzzled by the 11.
Pierre
--
The Black Garden on the Mountain is not on the Black Mountain.
As long as we're throwing ideas at the wall, here's a thing I did.
Why are we, though? I don't mind seeing ideas, they're interesting and
all, but this is... well, not the first time someone has up and said
"we'd better redesign the logo!" Are the current logos so horrendous
that we have to keep redoing them? (Maybe a dedicated page on the wiki
for "other upcoming logo suggestions"?) Just wondering why this is such
a perennial topic, and why it is considered something we are still
tinkering with.
~mark
Well... yes.
The only lasting solution, I think, would be to get a professional
designer to make a logo.
On 11/20/2011 06:53 PM, Mark E. Shoulson wrote:Well... yes.
> Are the current logos so horrendous that we have to keep redoing
> them?
The only lasting solution, I think, would be to get a professional
designer to make a logo.
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To clarify my opinion: they're better than to'e good, but no better than
no'e good. I think it would be fair to characterize them as na'e good.
----- Original Message ----
From: Mark E. Shoulson <ma...@kli.org>
To: loj...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, November 20, 2011 6:53:12 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] New logo; a work in progress
~mark
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On 21 Nov., 04:27, John E Clifford <kali9pu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> It's an endemic disease among epigones, slightly less severe than the urge to
> design a new alphabet for the language or to traslate some virtually
> untranslatable work form its English translation. Chill! Each one fades away,
> usually before the next comes along.
That was horribly said, and it being true doesn't help at all.
The Lojban flag/logo is completely unnecessary. We have no army or
illiterate people.
The symbols "la .lojban." already conveys all that needs to be
conveyed,
That being said, the current flag makes me think it was designed by
colorblind people. But why make a better?
I would suggest to avoid any illustration of "a man and a woman
talking together in suits". That isn't what Lojban is about.
Conventional alphabets & numerals don't seem appropriate either.
Should any letters be used, we would have to be extra careful about
its typography. And numbers, if any, need not be represented as
numerals; they could be embodied as geometrical elements of the logo.
You also might want to avoid a pyramidal shape to keep off unnecessary
suspicions from conspiracy folks. ;-)
mu'o
The bars in England's flag are St. George's Cross. It's a Christian
symbol. The current logo already has an element with a Christian
parallel: the Vesica piscis, the intersection of the two circles. A
piscis + a cross would be a potentially confusing symbol.
mu'o
The language itself needs no logo, but an abstract symbol can help
increase people's awareness of the project. I tend to take more time
remembering what a page with no favicon in my bookmark was about than
those with one. I tend to more skip or fail to notice an item when I
look for an add-on on the Firefox website. An iPhone app with a logo
is more appealing than those without.
I generally dislike the excessive and pretentious advertisements in
our modern life, but I think a neat logo is good than not for the
community development.
mu'o
Sent from my iPad
On 11/20/2011 06:53 PM, Mark E. Shoulson wrote: > Are the current logos so horrendous that we have to keep redoing > them? Well... yes. The only lasting solution, I think, would be to get a professional designer to make a logo. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
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I felt the three-eyed smiley face rather implied alienness.
Apart from all of what I meant, I think the middle implies more of a nose, not a third eye... Have ye looked at the three files?
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http://c0redump.org/core_protocol/perfection_game/
The basic idea is to use objective criteria in providing feedback.
-Alan
On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 02:13:09PM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> Yes.
>
> It's three eyes. And it's ugly.
>
> Bridi man FTW!
>
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 1:44 PM, M. Nael <[1]muhamm...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Apart from all of what I meant, I think the middle implies more of a
> nose, not a third eye... Have ye looked at the three*files?
>
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> --
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
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> References
>
> Visible links
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--
.i ma'a lo bradi cu penmi gi'e du
Following the steps:
1. Look at each of the three proposed designs: https://docs.google.com/open?id=1Q2I6bMdDFfRmyNlG2iBvfoNp7WCSf0MpvQsxMyLfgbbBDuv2ZKgJCjUlkw7C https://docs.google.com/open?id=1sQSlCGnhjrZHfSUWdV6_WbZzlrzjveP1j4dOf2OrLOxCACtjQaoAk3is_5FY https://docs.google.com/open?id=1otcagq32xZzKg96cuFzKjeFVe08mGDhbyDhOAjq1Rkj85xVOjcAsKcAPNOBG
Thank you for your contribution. I offer this revision to your
concept. I made all the features more visually prominent and legible,
by balancing the distance between edges. Also, the solid shape defines
the positive from the negative space. This version can be cut from one
piece of material, or stenciled.
Jonathan Jones,
Thanks for supporting the bridi man. I'm flattered that it pleases
you. I just wish you would be more kind and generous about it.
-Eppcott
* Accept perfecting without argument.
* Give only positive comments: what you like and what it would
take to "give it a 10."
* Abstain from mentioning what you don't like or being negative in
other ways.
* Withhold points only if you can think of improvements.
* Use ratings that reflect a scale of improvement rather than a
scale of how much you liked the object.
* If you cannot say something you liked about the object or
specifically say how to make the object better, you must give it
a 10.
Below, when you say "I do not believe they can be improved," it
means you have scored the object a 10.
Will you play the pefection game again?
-Alan
On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 07:30:26PM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> Following the steps:
> 1. Look at each of the three proposed designs:
> [1]https://docs.google.com/open?id=1Q2I6bMdDFfRmyNlG2iBvfoNp7WCSf0MpvQsxMyLfgbbBDuv2ZKgJCjUlkw7C
> [2]https://docs.google.com/open?id=1sQSlCGnhjrZHfSUWdV6_WbZzlrzjveP1j4dOf2OrLOxCACtjQaoAk3is_5FY
> 2. Offer a rating between 1 and 10 based on how much you believe you can
> improve them: I do not belive they can be "improved".
> 3. List the qualities you like about them: Nothing.
> 4. Offer suggestions on what should be done to improve them: Scrap them,
> and start over with something that doesn't look like a three-eyed smiley
> face.
>
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 6:49 PM, .alyn.post.
> <[3]alyn...@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
>
> I offer this with the hope that it improves the result/effort ratio
> of this conversation:
>
> *[4]http://c0redump.org/core_protocol/perfection_game/
>
> The basic idea is to use objective criteria in providing feedback.
>
> -Alan
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 02:13:09PM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> > * *Yes.
> >
> > * *It's three eyes. And it's ugly.
> >
> > * *Bridi man FTW!
> >
> > * *On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 1:44 PM, M. Nael
> <[1][5]muhamm...@gmail.com>
> > * *wrote:
> >
> > * * *Apart from all of what I meant, I think the middle implies more
> of a
> > * * *nose, not a third eye... Have ye looked at the three*files?
> >
> > * * *--
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> >
> > * *--
> > * *mu'o mi'e .aionys.
> >
> > * *.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do
> zo'o
> > * *(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
> >
> > * *--
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> > * *[11]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
> >
> > References
> >
> > * *Visible links
> > * *1. mailto:[12]muhamm...@gmail.com
> > * *2. mailto:[13]loj...@googlegroups.com
> > * *3. mailto:[14]lojban%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> > * *4. [15]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en
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> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
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> Visible links
> 1. https://docs.google.com/open?id=1Q2I6bMdDFfRmyNlG2iBvfoNp7WCSf0MpvQsxMyLfgbbBDuv2ZKgJCjUlkw7C
> 2. https://docs.google.com/open?id=1sQSlCGnhjrZHfSUWdV6_WbZzlrzjveP1j4dOf2OrLOxCACtjQaoAk3is_5FY
> 3. mailto:alyn...@lodockikumazvati.org
> 4. http://c0redump.org/core_protocol/perfection_game/
> 5. mailto:muhamm...@gmail.com
> 6. mailto:loj...@googlegroups.com
> 7. mailto:lojban%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> 8. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en
> 9. mailto:loj...@googlegroups.com
> 10. mailto:lojban%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> 11. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en
> 12. mailto:muhamm...@gmail.com
> 13. mailto:loj...@googlegroups.com
> 14. mailto:lojban%252Buns...@googlegroups.com
> 15. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en
> 16. mailto:loj...@googlegroups.com
> 17. mailto:lojban%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> 18. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en
I think it can work as a nose nicely, though it should be lowered just a little to be clearer i think. the statement you were trying to convey was lost on me though.
--
I just want to go on record as saying I hate bridi man. I'm not real fond of the new idea, either. I LIKE the venn diagram symbol. So sue me...
--gejyspa
Someone had once criticized the Lojban logo;Just take a look...It's an initial draft; just to gather opinion.