4 new rafsizve <= be fe lozvi <= be fi lozvo <= be fo lozvu <= be fu loandjve (fifth rafsi)
At first I must say that I'm not a member of any language-developing committee (BPFK or anything).And the following is just an idea how the flexibility of Lojban can be enriched.Nobody is asked to use the following when writing or speaking real Lojban.Everything here should be marked as exclusively experimental and (.a'o) as the source for further consideration.None of the existing rules of Lojban (the baseline) is changed.
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At first I must say that I'm not a member of any language-developing committee (BPFK or anything).And the following is just an idea how the flexibility of Lojban can be enriched.Nobody is asked to use the following when writing or speaking real Lojban.Everything here should be marked as exclusively experimental and (.a'o) as the source for further consideration.None of the existing rules of Lojban (the baseline) is changed.RafybriI always noticed how lujvo break the transparent logic of bridi.Let's look at {nitkla} which means {klama lo cnita}.Although it's much easier to learn {nitkla} rather then "descend" (in English they differ in sounding considerably)nobody can guess that {nitkla} means "descend" and doesn't mean "go in a lower position under something" without getting the translation beforehand.
Although anybody is free to say "klama lo cnita" insteadit will lead to lengthier speech.What I suggest is to glue bridi together into a new form of lujvo called "rafybri".That's how it works.1. First rule4 new rafsizve <= be fe lozvi <= be fi lozvo <= be fo lozvu <= be fu loandjve (fifth rafsi)When composing rafybri you replace gismu with rafsi and "be fe lo" etc. with new rafsi of ZVE series.2. cmavo attached to rafsi don't lead to the emergence of a new meaning. Therefore selpa'i is a synonym for "se prami" (actually the second rule is not a new rule at all).Applying this rule we can dramatically compress the length of lojbanic jufra.And if we replace cnita with dizlo in our example we can save even two syllables.klama lo cnita = klama lo dizlo = kla+zve+dzi = klazvedziblanu je crino = blajveri'o. In this case I refer to {blajveri'o} as to a synonym of {blanu je crino} (blue-green). I suggest that no new meaning is added here.In other words rafybri can be constructed from tanru only if the latter have logical operators("pelnimre tricu" can't be compressed into rafybri).
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On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 8:01 AM, gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
At first I must say that I'm not a member of any language-developing committee (BPFK or anything).And the following is just an idea how the flexibility of Lojban can be enriched.Nobody is asked to use the following when writing or speaking real Lojban.Everything here should be marked as exclusively experimental and (.a'o) as the source for further consideration.None of the existing rules of Lojban (the baseline) is changed.RafybriI always noticed how lujvo break the transparent logic of bridi.Let's look at {nitkla} which means {klama lo cnita}.Although it's much easier to learn {nitkla} rather then "descend" (in English they differ in sounding considerably)nobody can guess that {nitkla} means "descend" and doesn't mean "go in a lower position under something" without getting the translation beforehand.
I disagree. I argue that it is actually rather easy to determine the meaning of nitkla.
Let us assume that nitkla is a lujvo formed from the tanru {cnita klama}, which may or may not be true. {cnita klama} is a "below type-of going", i.e.. "going below", i.e. "descending".
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On Tuesday, April 24, 2012 10:38:30 PM UTC+4, aionys wrote:On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 8:01 AM, gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
At first I must say that I'm not a member of any language-developing committee (BPFK or anything).And the following is just an idea how the flexibility of Lojban can be enriched.Nobody is asked to use the following when writing or speaking real Lojban.Everything here should be marked as exclusively experimental and (.a'o) as the source for further consideration.None of the existing rules of Lojban (the baseline) is changed.RafybriI always noticed how lujvo break the transparent logic of bridi.Let's look at {nitkla} which means {klama lo cnita}.Although it's much easier to learn {nitkla} rather then "descend" (in English they differ in sounding considerably)nobody can guess that {nitkla} means "descend" and doesn't mean "go in a lower position under something" without getting the translation beforehand.
I disagree. I argue that it is actually rather easy to determine the meaning of nitkla.
Let us assume that nitkla is a lujvo formed from the tanru {cnita klama}, which may or may not be true. {cnita klama} is a "below type-of going", i.e.. "going below", i.e. "descending".
The point is that in many lujvo the first rafsi acts rather like an adverb when translating to English.
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That's a bias in favor of klama2, which is malgli if it is considered to be inherent (it isn't malgli in an actual lujvo definition). It could just as easily be "below type-of-going" i.e. "going from below" i.e. "rising". This seems less obvious to an English speaker but that's only because of preposition omission; "going below" is "going to below" which is essentially symmetric with the case which favors klama3. There is a similar albeit less natural version for klama4, namely essentially "tunneling", in the physical sense.
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mu'o mi'e .aionys.
.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
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"me'ispe" isn't broken. It means "x1 is married to the sister of x2 by
custom/bond x3". This is not the same as brother-in-law, which also includes
spebu'a. i la stiv. me'ispe mi .ije mi spebu'a la stiv. i mi me'ispe noda
.ini'ibo mi na speni
mu'omi'e .pier.
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loi mintu se ckaji danlu cu jmaji
mu'o mi'e ianek
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mu'omi'e .pier.
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loi mintu se ckaji danlu cu jmaji
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It is broken. "brother-in-law" != me'ispe. Saying it does is broken.
Add you said yourself, "brother-in-law" == me'ispe jonai spebu'a.
They are not equivalent, therefore, the definition is broken.
to pu benji ti fo lo mi me la.android. samcku toi
mu'o mi'e.aionys.
The term "brother-in-law" is in the definition. It is not just a bad keyword.
Unfortunately, like so many words, the only existing definition of the word is in English.
Obviously a Lojban definition would not have any such problems.
to pu benji ti fo lo mi me la.android. samcku toi
mu'o mi'e.aionys.
I'm pretty sure that the zo'u-construct I used at the beginning will parse,
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mu'o mi'e .aionys.
.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
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-- .i da xamgu ganse fi no na'ebo lo risna .i lo vajrai cu nonselji'u lo kanla