a minecraft proposal
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Jonathan Strickland
Aug 21, 2012, 10:28:01 PM8/21/12
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I've been playing minecraft regularly for about 2 years. I played on the lojban.org minecraft server when it was up. I've been playing with other lojbanists since that server went down, and I know there's a lot of lojbanists that play minecraft (or have purchased minecraft and don't play anymore) that might be interested in starting to play together again.
Minecraft is by far the most social game I've played, and I feel the lojban community could get a lot out of it if we started taking advantage of it again. I propose a once-a-month minecraft server that goes up for a week (probably starting friday night) where players can work together while speaking only lojban and try to beat the game.
Minecraft has come quite a long way since the old server was up, and I think hosting a server once a month, with a new map each month, would encourage people to work together, speak and learn lojban, and grow closer as a community while having fun. There's lots of things to do, regardless of how you like to play. Collecting resources, farming, writing books, fighting monsters, and building is the closest to lojbanistan we can get right now :)
One of the problems with the old server was that people would join, build things, and then not come back as often until they stopped coming back at all. When a server gets to be large and there isn't that much to do besides sustain what there already is, it's not as interesting. I think starting a new map each month would give people the opportunity to feel involved from the beginning, and keep people from being intimidated by having to learn everything that's already been done and built. I enjoy minecraft the most when starting out in a new world and working with others, starting equally naked and helpless, and I know a lot of other people do as well.
I also think a community wiki, with a glossary of terms and a description of how each world went and how different people contributed might be fun. Placing maps of the worlds we've made and downloads would be trivial. We could also post transcripts of the chatlogs, or only parts of them that parse as valid lojban.
The biggest and most important change minecraft has had is the inclusion of an overarching goal. Yeah, you can actually beat minecraft now. Getting there is a long and open-ended process, but instead of just building things that look cool, we'd be actually trying to do something! :D
If you aren't familiar with how to beat minecraft, here's how it works:
1). Collect obsidian by mixing water and lava.
Collecting obsidian usually requires a diamond pickaxe, and diamonds are one of the rarest items in the game.
2). Build a frame with the obsidian, and light the frame on fire, opening a portal to the Nether.
The Nether is a hostile, hell-like dimension. It's much more dangerous than the Overworld, so bringing food, weapons, and armor is important.
3). Locate a Stronghold in the Nether.
Strongholds are massive, complicated dungeons that have items needed for progression inside. There are strongholds in the Nether, and strongholds in the Overworld. Finding a stronghold in the Nether is usually much easier.
4). Find a blaze spawner, and collect blaze rods by killing blazes.
Blazes are one of the toughest enemies in the game, and can rapidly shoot projectiles that will light you on fire. Collecting blaze rods is usually a team effort. They can be placed in a crafting grid to get blaze powder, or used to craft a brewing station for potions.
5). Combine blaze powder with enderpearls to create eyes of ender.
Endermen are tall, dark mobs that are passive unless you look at them in the face. They pick up blocks and move them around the world, and can teleport. If you make them hostile, they'll come straight at you and teleport away after attempting to hit you for a while, coming back in a different direction. Killing them drops enderpearls, which is combined with blaze powder to create eyes of ender. Killing endermen is necessary to proceed in the game. Endermen are the strongest mob in the overworld. They also take damage when it's raining or when they're touching water.
6). Throw eyes of ender into the sky and follow where they land until you reach a stronghold in the overworld.
Strongholds in the overworld are generated underground. They generate different rooms than Nether strongholds, and they have chests filled with valuable things. They're also the only way into the End.
7). Find a portal frame inside the stronghold and place eyes of ender into each of the slots.
In (most) strongholds, there is a frame of 12 blocks above a pool of lava. The blocks are only generated in strongholds, and create a portal when an eye of ender is inserted into each slot. This portal leads to the End.
8). Kill the Enderdragon, and win.
The End is the only finite map in the game. You spawn on a large floating mass of land. Only endermen can spawn in the end, and they spawn in large quantities. There's also a big dragon flying in the sky, attacking you. Once you enter the End, there's no way out unless you beat it. The enderdragon has a lot of health, and takes either a concentrated attack effort or a very prepared player with a good amount of time. There are large obsidian towers with gems that heal the enderdragon, and killing the enderdragon results in a rain of experience and a portal to return to the Overworld. It also spawns the Enderdragon Egg, a trophy to take home to show you beat the game.
That's how you beat minecraft. It takes a lot of skill to do alone, but it's much easier (and much more fun!) when working together as a team. There's also a lot of things to translate and document; if we wanted to, we could try to create a lojban translation of the minecraft wiki (http://minecraftwiki.net), but that's a...large and comprehensive wiki.
Anyway, I really look forward to social events, and I'd love to have something to look forward to with lojban. I don't know of any monthly lojban happenings that are going on right now, but I think this might be a great thing, and I'd be willing and happy to take in the lead in making this happen if enough people are interested. I was probably most actively learning and speaking lojban during the time the server was up; I'd like to be more active again, and this is a great incentive for me, at the very least. I think that would be the case for others as well. I have a few questions:
1). Are you interested in something like this?
2). Do you think the once-a-month new world format is a good idea?
3). What times work best for you?
4). Do you have any suggestions for ways to make this better?
Having a voicechat server while we play is also a possibility, but that would exclude people who don't have microphones or have to play in quiet areas. If enough people can do that and want to do that, though, feel free. There's no reason to feel intimidated by the game; there are several experienced players (including myself) who would be happy to help if we get this thing going. There's always something to do, even if you're not the best builder or especially good at videogames.
Thoughts?
Minecraft is by far the most social game I've played, and I feel the lojban community could get a lot out of it if we started taking advantage of it again. I propose a once-a-month minecraft server that goes up for a week (probably starting friday night) where players can work together while speaking only lojban and try to beat the game.
Minecraft has come quite a long way since the old server was up, and I think hosting a server once a month, with a new map each month, would encourage people to work together, speak and learn lojban, and grow closer as a community while having fun. There's lots of things to do, regardless of how you like to play. Collecting resources, farming, writing books, fighting monsters, and building is the closest to lojbanistan we can get right now :)
One of the problems with the old server was that people would join, build things, and then not come back as often until they stopped coming back at all. When a server gets to be large and there isn't that much to do besides sustain what there already is, it's not as interesting. I think starting a new map each month would give people the opportunity to feel involved from the beginning, and keep people from being intimidated by having to learn everything that's already been done and built. I enjoy minecraft the most when starting out in a new world and working with others, starting equally naked and helpless, and I know a lot of other people do as well.
I also think a community wiki, with a glossary of terms and a description of how each world went and how different people contributed might be fun. Placing maps of the worlds we've made and downloads would be trivial. We could also post transcripts of the chatlogs, or only parts of them that parse as valid lojban.
The biggest and most important change minecraft has had is the inclusion of an overarching goal. Yeah, you can actually beat minecraft now. Getting there is a long and open-ended process, but instead of just building things that look cool, we'd be actually trying to do something! :D
If you aren't familiar with how to beat minecraft, here's how it works:
1). Collect obsidian by mixing water and lava.
Collecting obsidian usually requires a diamond pickaxe, and diamonds are one of the rarest items in the game.
2). Build a frame with the obsidian, and light the frame on fire, opening a portal to the Nether.
The Nether is a hostile, hell-like dimension. It's much more dangerous than the Overworld, so bringing food, weapons, and armor is important.
3). Locate a Stronghold in the Nether.
Strongholds are massive, complicated dungeons that have items needed for progression inside. There are strongholds in the Nether, and strongholds in the Overworld. Finding a stronghold in the Nether is usually much easier.
4). Find a blaze spawner, and collect blaze rods by killing blazes.
Blazes are one of the toughest enemies in the game, and can rapidly shoot projectiles that will light you on fire. Collecting blaze rods is usually a team effort. They can be placed in a crafting grid to get blaze powder, or used to craft a brewing station for potions.
5). Combine blaze powder with enderpearls to create eyes of ender.
Endermen are tall, dark mobs that are passive unless you look at them in the face. They pick up blocks and move them around the world, and can teleport. If you make them hostile, they'll come straight at you and teleport away after attempting to hit you for a while, coming back in a different direction. Killing them drops enderpearls, which is combined with blaze powder to create eyes of ender. Killing endermen is necessary to proceed in the game. Endermen are the strongest mob in the overworld. They also take damage when it's raining or when they're touching water.
6). Throw eyes of ender into the sky and follow where they land until you reach a stronghold in the overworld.
Strongholds in the overworld are generated underground. They generate different rooms than Nether strongholds, and they have chests filled with valuable things. They're also the only way into the End.
7). Find a portal frame inside the stronghold and place eyes of ender into each of the slots.
In (most) strongholds, there is a frame of 12 blocks above a pool of lava. The blocks are only generated in strongholds, and create a portal when an eye of ender is inserted into each slot. This portal leads to the End.
8). Kill the Enderdragon, and win.
The End is the only finite map in the game. You spawn on a large floating mass of land. Only endermen can spawn in the end, and they spawn in large quantities. There's also a big dragon flying in the sky, attacking you. Once you enter the End, there's no way out unless you beat it. The enderdragon has a lot of health, and takes either a concentrated attack effort or a very prepared player with a good amount of time. There are large obsidian towers with gems that heal the enderdragon, and killing the enderdragon results in a rain of experience and a portal to return to the Overworld. It also spawns the Enderdragon Egg, a trophy to take home to show you beat the game.
That's how you beat minecraft. It takes a lot of skill to do alone, but it's much easier (and much more fun!) when working together as a team. There's also a lot of things to translate and document; if we wanted to, we could try to create a lojban translation of the minecraft wiki (http://minecraftwiki.net), but that's a...large and comprehensive wiki.
Anyway, I really look forward to social events, and I'd love to have something to look forward to with lojban. I don't know of any monthly lojban happenings that are going on right now, but I think this might be a great thing, and I'd be willing and happy to take in the lead in making this happen if enough people are interested. I was probably most actively learning and speaking lojban during the time the server was up; I'd like to be more active again, and this is a great incentive for me, at the very least. I think that would be the case for others as well. I have a few questions:
1). Are you interested in something like this?
2). Do you think the once-a-month new world format is a good idea?
3). What times work best for you?
4). Do you have any suggestions for ways to make this better?
Having a voicechat server while we play is also a possibility, but that would exclude people who don't have microphones or have to play in quiet areas. If enough people can do that and want to do that, though, feel free. There's no reason to feel intimidated by the game; there are several experienced players (including myself) who would be happy to help if we get this thing going. There's always something to do, even if you're not the best builder or especially good at videogames.
Thoughts?
vitci'i
Aug 22, 2012, 12:46:09 AM8/22/12
to loj...@googlegroups.com
On 08/21/2012 09:28 PM, Jonathan Strickland wrote:
> Minecraft is by far the most social game I've played, and I feel the lojban
> community could get a lot out of it if we started taking advantage of it
> again. I propose a once-a-month minecraft server that goes up for a week
> (probably starting friday night) where players can work together while
> speaking only lojban and try to beat the game.
>
> Minecraft has come quite a long way since the old server was up, and I
> think hosting a server once a month, with a new map each month, would
> encourage people to work together, speak and learn lojban, and grow closer
> as a community while having fun. There's lots of things to do, regardless
> of how you like to play. Collecting resources, farming, writing books,
> fighting monsters, and building is the closest to lojbanistan we can get
> right now :)
>
> One of the problems with the old server was that people would join, build
> things, and then not come back as often until they stopped coming back at
> all. When a server gets to be large and there isn't that much to do besides
> sustain what there already is, it's not as interesting. I think starting a
> new map each month would give people the opportunity to feel involved from
> the beginning, and keep people from being intimidated by having to learn
> everything that's already been done and built. I enjoy minecraft the most
> when starting out in a new world and working with others, starting equally
> naked and helpless, and I know a lot of other people do as well.
I think a few hours a week would work better to encourage people to be
> Minecraft is by far the most social game I've played, and I feel the lojban
> community could get a lot out of it if we started taking advantage of it
> again. I propose a once-a-month minecraft server that goes up for a week
> (probably starting friday night) where players can work together while
> speaking only lojban and try to beat the game.
>
> Minecraft has come quite a long way since the old server was up, and I
> think hosting a server once a month, with a new map each month, would
> encourage people to work together, speak and learn lojban, and grow closer
> as a community while having fun. There's lots of things to do, regardless
> of how you like to play. Collecting resources, farming, writing books,
> fighting monsters, and building is the closest to lojbanistan we can get
> right now :)
>
> One of the problems with the old server was that people would join, build
> things, and then not come back as often until they stopped coming back at
> all. When a server gets to be large and there isn't that much to do besides
> sustain what there already is, it's not as interesting. I think starting a
> new map each month would give people the opportunity to feel involved from
> the beginning, and keep people from being intimidated by having to learn
> everything that's already been done and built. I enjoy minecraft the most
> when starting out in a new world and working with others, starting equally
> naked and helpless, and I know a lot of other people do as well.
on simultaneously with each other. Perhaps the server could go up at
noon Friday and go down at midnight Sunday/Monday.
I like your proposal for getting newbies engaged. but I also think it
would be nice to have something persistent, so that we can (as you say)
build lojbanistan. Perhaps there could be a persistent and a
nonpersistent world, and the wipes temporarily made the persistent world
inaccessible until we accomplished something appropriately difficult,
such as sacrificing a stack of diamonds at the Altar of the Wrathful Op.
Sebastian
Aug 22, 2012, 2:14:41 AM8/22/12
to loj...@googlegroups.com
coi,
I've never played Minecraft before, but it seems like a nice activity. I could probably spend a few hours
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I've never played Minecraft before, but it seems like a nice activity. I could probably spend a few hours
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Sebastian
Aug 22, 2012, 2:20:43 AM8/22/12
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Vidarebefordrat brev:
Från: Sebastian <so.co...@gmail.com>
Datum: 22 augusti 2012 08:14:41 CEST
Till: "loj...@googlegroups.com" <loj...@googlegroups.com>
Ämne: Re: [lojban] a minecraft proposal
coi,
I've never played Minecraft before, but it seems like a nice activity. I could probably spend a few hours each weekend playing the game. Can you simulate a real community in game, so you can organize work, economy, distribution of resources and services democratic processes, etc? That would be nice!
Jacob Errington
Aug 22, 2012, 6:46:46 AM8/22/12
to loj...@googlegroups.com
Sounds great. I'd love to play!
You're right, however, we need some sort of wiki/glossary (maybe just a bunch of pages of the regular lojban.org wiki) because there's quite a bit of terminology (anyone know how to say "pickaxe" in lojban? I'd cheat and make up a zi'evla or something).
.i mi'e la tsani mu'o
Pierre Abbat
Aug 22, 2012, 7:04:50 AM8/22/12
to loj...@googlegroups.com
On Wednesday 22 August 2012 06:46:46 Jacob Errington wrote:
> Sounds great. I'd love to play!
> You're right, however, we need some sort of wiki/glossary (maybe just a
> bunch of pages of the regular lojban.org wiki) because there's quite a bit
> of terminology (anyone know how to say "pickaxe" in lojban? I'd cheat and
> make up a zi'evla or something).
"Axe" is "ka'amru". "Pickaxe", I don't know.
> Sounds great. I'd love to play!
> You're right, however, we need some sort of wiki/glossary (maybe just a
> bunch of pages of the regular lojban.org wiki) because there's quite a bit
> of terminology (anyone know how to say "pickaxe" in lojban? I'd cheat and
> make up a zi'evla or something).
Crowbars and nutpicks are both called "cfinyvra", which refers to any tool
with a wedge on the end, next to which the rod is bent so that it can be used
as a lever.
Pierre
--
ve ka'a ro klaji la .romas. se jmaji
selpa'i
Aug 22, 2012, 7:34:27 AM8/22/12
to loj...@googlegroups.com
Am 22.08.2012 04:28, schrieb Jonathan Strickland:
> [...]
I approve of any lojbanic activity there is. However, if the point is to
practice Lojban and to socialize, then why not just have an normal
conversation in Lojban? Some of us regularly hang out on the mumble
server, and you'd certainly get more practice this way than while
playing a game. Describing the environment and whatnot in the game can
be a challenge, but you can equally well describe the real-life
environment of where you are and what you've done during the day etc.
That said, I do not want to discourage you or anybody else from doing
this, I just think that just plain mumble would be more efficient (*if*
the point is to get better at lojban). I think you at least need voice
chat in minecraft to really profit. I also think that practicing a
langauge only once a month is not at all enough. The most effective
method would be to speak Lojban on irc daily and to have mumble
conversations at least a few times a week.
mu'o mi'e la selpa'i
--
pilno zo le xu .i lo dei bangu cu se cmene zo lojbo .e nai zo lejbo
> [...]
>
> 1). Are you interested in something like this?
> 2). Do you think the once-a-month new world format is a good idea?
> 3). What times work best for you?
> 4). Do you have any suggestions for ways to make this better?
>
> Having a voicechat server while we play is also a possibility, but
> that would exclude people who don't have microphones or have to play
> in quiet areas. If enough people can do that and want to do that,
> though, feel free. There's no reason to feel intimidated by the game;
> there are several experienced players (including myself) who would be
> happy to help if we get this thing going. There's always something to
> do, even if you're not the best builder or especially good at videogames.
>
> Thoughts?
First of all, this is surely fun for those who already play Minecraf and
> 1). Are you interested in something like this?
> 2). Do you think the once-a-month new world format is a good idea?
> 3). What times work best for you?
> 4). Do you have any suggestions for ways to make this better?
>
> Having a voicechat server while we play is also a possibility, but
> that would exclude people who don't have microphones or have to play
> in quiet areas. If enough people can do that and want to do that,
> though, feel free. There's no reason to feel intimidated by the game;
> there are several experienced players (including myself) who would be
> happy to help if we get this thing going. There's always something to
> do, even if you're not the best builder or especially good at videogames.
>
> Thoughts?
I approve of any lojbanic activity there is. However, if the point is to
practice Lojban and to socialize, then why not just have an normal
conversation in Lojban? Some of us regularly hang out on the mumble
server, and you'd certainly get more practice this way than while
playing a game. Describing the environment and whatnot in the game can
be a challenge, but you can equally well describe the real-life
environment of where you are and what you've done during the day etc.
That said, I do not want to discourage you or anybody else from doing
this, I just think that just plain mumble would be more efficient (*if*
the point is to get better at lojban). I think you at least need voice
chat in minecraft to really profit. I also think that practicing a
langauge only once a month is not at all enough. The most effective
method would be to speak Lojban on irc daily and to have mumble
conversations at least a few times a week.
mu'o mi'e la selpa'i
--
pilno zo le xu .i lo dei bangu cu se cmene zo lojbo .e nai zo lejbo
vitci'i
Aug 22, 2012, 8:22:08 AM8/22/12
to loj...@googlegroups.com
Matt Arnold
Aug 22, 2012, 9:10:46 AM8/22/12
to loj...@googlegroups.com
For learning Lojban, Minecraft is better than a conversation.
In a conversation, the participants have to come up with something to
talk about, which they often decline to do, or attempt to be the last
person to do. And when they do, it's usually not very interesting. Too
much of the effort of the participants goes to figuring out what to
communicate about, rather than to communicating.
Minecraft gives you goal-oriented behavior to talk about. These goals
motivate you to attempt to convey meaning to the other players. Also,
Minecraft lets you visibly point at things or provide other visual
hints to the meaning of your words. These are extremely important for
learning!
Conversation expands and limits the range of topics in bad ways
(philosophy, science fiction, computer programming, all of which rely
heavily on jargon). Minecraft expands and limits the range of topics
in a good way ("I'm hungry. Give me grain." "Help! Watch out for that
spider!" "Put the wood on top of the stone.").
I am extremely interested in participating in these sessions.
-Eppcott
In a conversation, the participants have to come up with something to
talk about, which they often decline to do, or attempt to be the last
person to do. And when they do, it's usually not very interesting. Too
much of the effort of the participants goes to figuring out what to
communicate about, rather than to communicating.
Minecraft gives you goal-oriented behavior to talk about. These goals
motivate you to attempt to convey meaning to the other players. Also,
Minecraft lets you visibly point at things or provide other visual
hints to the meaning of your words. These are extremely important for
learning!
Conversation expands and limits the range of topics in bad ways
(philosophy, science fiction, computer programming, all of which rely
heavily on jargon). Minecraft expands and limits the range of topics
in a good way ("I'm hungry. Give me grain." "Help! Watch out for that
spider!" "Put the wood on top of the stone.").
I am extremely interested in participating in these sessions.
-Eppcott
Paul Predkiewicz
Aug 22, 2012, 10:38:55 AM8/22/12
to loj...@googlegroups.com
sounds like fun, especially because with the item names beeing displayed in the inventory, it would be also a bit like with the learning software rosetta stone. in which a language is solely teached by showing you a picture and giving you the foreign word. which seems like a good way to teach a language. i didnt invest much energy into this but i learned a bit danish that way.
2012/8/22 Matt Arnold <matt.m...@gmail.com>
Jacob Errington
Aug 23, 2012, 7:31:02 PM8/23/12
to loj...@googlegroups.com
Voice chat, for sure. Run mumble in the background.
.i mi'e la tsani mu'o
On 23 August 2012 14:05, triliyn <trillio...@gmail.com> wrote:
I would love to participate in this at least occasionally! I just got a microphone too, so I'd even be able to voice chat!
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la .lindar.
Aug 24, 2012, 5:53:57 AM8/24/12
to loj...@googlegroups.com
To whomever it may concern, if you would like to have your game in Lojban, I have a non-recent Lojban language file for the game. It's entirely up to you to figure out how to get it to work as I don't rightly give two craps about explaining it. If something has changed and you would like to update it, or if you require additional translations for mods and such, please feel free to do it your goddamn self or pay me lots of money to update it. Link follows:
Let me know if you have questions.
Matt Arnold
Aug 24, 2012, 9:12:29 AM8/24/12
to loj...@googlegroups.com
Well done, Lindar. Thanks!
-Eppcott
-Eppcott
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