Lojbanic equivalent for Italian ciao

[gleki]

The Italians say ciao both when they greet each other and when they wanna say goodbye.

So is there any word that has two meanings, 

either {coi} or {co'o} depending on context ?

[Luke Bergen]

A word with two meanings would mean "ambiguity" (bad).  A word with an extremely broad definition or a word whose meaning draws from the local context would mean "vagueness" (good). 

Given those definitions, I don'tthink lojban has any ambiguous words but very many words are vague.

So "ge'e" maybe?  That might be too vague for your needs though

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[vruxir]

Perhaps a simple ".io", optionally accompanied by a fist bump?

[MorphemeAddict]

And what's the spoken equivalent of the fist bump? 

stevo

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[Luke Bergen]

sa'ei .bymp.  ?

[MorphemeAddict]

Okay, I meant, what combination of attitudinal cmavo are the equivalent of a fist bump? 

stevo

[Jonathan Jones]

.io.i'e.o'ero'iga'icu'i

Lojban doesn't seem to have a politeness UI, so I'm co-opting .o'e [closeness - distance] in combination with ro'i [emotional]:

.o'ero'i - emotional closeness - friends - informal
.o'ecu'iro'i - emotionally neutral - strangers - polite
.o'enairo'i - emotional distance - superiors - formal

mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

[Jacob Errington]

Why emotional? Isn't social, {ro'a}, more appropriate?

io o'ero'a ga'icu'i -> generic greeting

[Jonathan Jones]

I suppose ro'a works as well, but {.io.i'e.o'ero'aga'icu'i) is definitely not a "generic" greeting, having both a very specific meaning and being applicable as a parting.

[Jacob Errington]

Huh, maybe we're taking this too far. Consider that {coi} means hello, and that {coinai} means goodbye, what does {coicu'i} mean?
Also, of course, that attitudinal string doesn't *necessarily* constitute a greeting or a parting, but in the context of coming across someone on the street as well as the context of a meeting coming to an end, I think that I might interpret it that way.

Also, it's so awfully long that no one would ever conceivably use it.

mi'e la tsani mu'o

[Jonathan Jones]

Someone asked what the attitudinal equivalent of a "fist bump" is. That long string is what I take a "fist bump" to mean.

Also, where do you get that coinai means goodbye? co'o means goodbye. I'm not aware it saying anywhere that cmavo of COI can be modified by NAI. Could you link the relevant passage?

[Pierre Abbat]

On Monday, March 05, 2012 20:43:44 Jonathan Jones wrote:
> Also, where do you get that coinai means goodbye? co'o means goodbye. I'm
> not aware it saying anywhere that cmavo of COI can be modified by NAI.
> Could you link the relevant passage?

According to my recollection of a discussion long ago, "coinai" means that
you're refusing to greet someone. I'm not sure how that would be used without
contriving, but both "mi'enai" and "co'onai" have clear uses. If someone
yelled at you "ju'i blub!", you could answer "mi'enai blub", and if someone
said "co'o" when you're not ready to go or for him to go, you can answer
"co'onai".

Pierre
--
La sal en el mar es m�s que en la sangre.
Le sel dans la mer est plus que dans le sang.

[Jacob Errington]

The CLL says that COI can be suffixed with NAI... I don't see there being any problem with that either. [ju'inai] is defined as meaning "ignore me", as per vlasisku. And, more to the point, [coinai] is defined as "goodbye". The "address refusal meaning" is carried more specifically by [doinai]. [mi'enai] like Pierre said, is "I'm not X" which is pretty useful.

Huh, in fact, a whole section of the CLL is dedicated to vocative scales.

http://dag.github.com/cll/13/14/ 

mi'enai na'e bo la tsani mu'o

Pierre
--
La sal en el mar es más que en la sangre.

Le sel dans la mer est plus que dans le sang.

[Jonathan Jones]

This is the relevant entry: "But like the cmavo of UI, the members of selma'o COI can be “negated” with “nai” to get the opposite part of the scale." Thanks for the link.

[MorphemeAddict]

"coinai" was from the recent Lojban video that was linked to, and I questioned this term. Whether "coinai" is a valid word, it shouldn't be synonymous with "co'o", which is 'goodbye'. 

stevo

[Pierre Abbat]

On Monday, March 05, 2012 23:07:45 MorphemeAddict wrote:
> "coinai" was from the recent Lojban video that was linked to, and I
> questioned this term. Whether "coinai" is a valid word, it shouldn't be
> synonymous with "co'o", which is 'goodbye'.

If someone said "hello" to you, could you reply with "goodbye"?

Pierre
--
li ze te'a ci vu'u ci bi'e te'a mu du
li ci su'i ze te'a mu bi'e vu'u ci

[gleki]

More about "ciao" itself (although discussing {coinai}  might be even more  interesting).

On Sunday, March 4, 2012 8:41:01 PM UTC+4, pafcribe wrote:

A word with two meanings would mean "ambiguity" (bad).  A word with an extremely broad definition or a word whose meaning draws from the local context would mean "vagueness" (good). 

Given those definitions, I don'tthink lojban has any ambiguous words but very many words are vague.

I can define "ciao" = "you and me are on the edge of talking process (either on the starting or the ending point)"
So the definition can be very precise.

 

So "ge'e" maybe?  That might be too vague for your needs though

On Mar 4, 2012 10:04 AM, "gleki" <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:

The Italians say ciao both when they greet each other and when they wanna say goodbye.

So is there any word that has two meanings, 

 

either {coi} or {co'o} depending on context ?

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[Michael Turniansky]

On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com> wrote:
> .io.i'e.o'ero'iga'icu'i
>
> Lojban doesn't seem to have a politeness UI, so I'm co-opting .o'e
> [closeness - distance] in combination with ro'i [emotional]:
>
> .o'ero'i - emotional closeness - friends - informal
> .o'ecu'iro'i - emotionally neutral - strangers - polite
> .o'enairo'i - emotional distance - superiors - formal
>

ga'inai and le'ocu'i are sort of "politeness UI"