Pokemon translation

[djandus]

So, I've started working on translating Pokemon Red, closely followed by Pokemon Blue. This is not to say that I have merely started translating the words, but I have the full capabilities to edit and assemble Pokemon Red ROMs. As such, I've been firing up the pokemon pages.

Some already know of http://www.lojban.org/tiki/selci%27a+sera%27a+lai+pokemon.

It was designed with the intent of allowing communication about pokemon, including naming all the pokemon themselves. Of the first 150, 56 are left to me named by his cmene setup. (Though it seems somepony intends to make brivla as well for some reason...?)

Other than that and the list of types on that page, I need to translate the items and attacks, which I have already listed (and translated a few) here:

http://www.lojban.org/tiki/selci%27a+sera%27a+lai+pokemon.

(Both pages have links to each other.)

I'm planning on working through the dialogue and various menus while others work through those lists. The primary goals I have for the project are to have good, consistent translations with clear, informative terms, to make it a good lesson in and of itself.

Also, a reminder that this is totally for fun. I've heard many a time of a rather awesome CLLv1.1 that could use some official work ;)

Anywho, feel free to discuss here what you like/dislike about my plans thus far. I've been detailing everything on the wiki page, so it should be very clear.

[Jacob Errington]

I'd like to help out ! :)

On 13 July 2012 21:12, djandus <jan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So, I've started working on translating Pokemon Red, closely followed by
> Pokemon Blue. This is not to say that I have merely started translating the
> words, but I have the full capabilities to edit and assemble Pokemon Red
> ROMs. As such, I've been firing up the pokemon pages.
>
> Some already know of
> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/selci%27a+sera%27a+lai+pokemon.
> It was designed with the intent of allowing communication about pokemon,
> including naming all the pokemon themselves. Of the first 150, 56 are left
> to me named by his cmene setup. (Though it seems somepony intends to make
> brivla as well for some reason...?)
>

I'm of the opinion that they should be zi'evla of the type {x1 is a
[pokemon] of type x2, level x3, and trainer x4.} Maybe an x5, but I
don't know what for. I'm also not sure what's more important: level or
type. Perhaps the trainer place isn't a smart idea. What do we put
there if the pokemon is wild? ({noda} is nogood.)

mu'o mi'e la tsani

> Other than that and the list of types on that page, I need to translate the
> items and attacks, which I have already listed (and translated a few) here:
> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/selci%27a+sera%27a+lai+pokemon.
>
> (Both pages have links to each other.)
>
> I'm planning on working through the dialogue and various menus while others
> work through those lists. The primary goals I have for the project are to
> have good, consistent translations with clear, informative terms, to make it
> a good lesson in and of itself.
>
> Also, a reminder that this is totally for fun. I've heard many a time of a
> rather awesome CLLv1.1 that could use some official work ;)
>
> Anywho, feel free to discuss here what you like/dislike about my plans thus
> far. I've been detailing everything on the wiki page, so it should be very
> clear.
>

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[djandus]

On Saturday, July 14, 2012 12:11:08 AM UTC-5, tsani wrote:

I'd like to help out ! :)

Awesome -- feel free to join in the fun!

Just dive in and feel free to leave comments/questions places. 

(Though it seems somepony intends to make
> brivla as well for some reason...?)
>

I'm of the opinion that they should be zi'evla of the type {x1 is a
[pokemon] of type x2, level x3, and trainer x4.} Maybe an x5, but I
don't know what for. I'm also not sure what's more important: level or
type. Perhaps the trainer place isn't a smart idea. What do we put
there if the pokemon is wild? ({noda} is nogood.)

So, this is totally making more sense now. I immediately conceded to having item names be brivla, because that's inherently awesome and dumb of me to not do earlier. However, I feel entirely certain that the pokemon should have both cmevla and brivla versions. And the cmene are more important. Here's why -- I catch a Pikachu, and the game's first question is whether to give it a nickname. Provided I don't name it, Pikachu is fully intended to be it's name.

So if I were to really get in gear and somehow be ready to put a version out when there was only time to get either cmevla or brivla of pokemon names, I'd take the cmevla first.

However, I think it will be really cool to have pokemon brivla as well. That would really show off a lot of Lojbanic awesomeness.

back to the issue

suppose we make up a broda for Pikachu -- broda2 as type is very useless, as the type does not vary from Pikachu to Pikachu, but from pokemon species to species.

Note that la selpa'i was suggesting a fu'ivla for pokemon: {pokmone}

So, how about:

pokmone: (rafsi: pok) x1 is a pokemon of species x2 and level x3

pokjutsi: x1 is a pokemon species of type(s) x2 with evolutions/family x3

broda poi pokjutsi: x1 is a [broda] at level x2 trained by x3

"Wild [broda] appeared!" can be "lo cilce broda ku tolcanci" or similar. Tanru can affect the semantics of place structures enough for that.

Evolutions can be described with {binxo}, and I would even go as far as to describe families as

lo lanzu be la .tsirespas. ce'o la .xederespas. ce'o la .musirespas. bei lo nu binxo

where, of course, we would prefer brivla for lo pokjutsi

mu'o mi'e .djos.

[iesk]

Hi,

I don't have the slightest idea what this game is that you are translating, but I just looked at http://www.lojban.org/tiki/lai+pokemon. and noticed some impossible me'evla, eg pezciblus, ledcinkis, and cibcautup. Cf. http://dag.github.com/cll/3/6/

I didn't want to clutter up the tiki page, so I write it here.

Sorry if this is sounds like not the most constructive criticism. :) Keep up whatever you're doing. :)

iesk

[vitci'i]

On 07/13/2012 08:12 PM, djandus wrote:
> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/selci%27a+sera%27a+lai+pokemon.
> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/selci%27a+sera%27a+lai+pokemon.

Both of those links seem to be broken. Is it just me?

[Craig Daniel]

The final dot is part of the URL.

[selpa'i]

Am 14.07.2012 03:12, schrieb djandus:

Some already know of http://www.lojban.org/tiki/selci%27a+sera%27a+lai+pokemon.

It was designed with the intent of allowing communication about pokemon, including naming all the pokemon themselves. Of the first 150, 56 are left to me named by his cmene setup.

(Though it seems somepony intends to make brivla as well for some reason...?)

I suggested brivla because each Pokemon is basically a seperate species, and there exist many of each. You can say "I caught a Pikachu" just like you say "I bought a cat". In addition to that, brivla are less cumbersome, as they don't require dots around them, while you can still use them as names if you want, using {la}. And on top of that, it lets you define a place structure for them, like:
x1 is a Pikachu at level x2

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

-- 
.i pau mi me ma .i pa mai ko mi jungau la'e di'u 
.i ba bo mi va'o lo nu nelci lo nu me ma kau cu barkla 
.i va'o lo nu na nelci cu denpa ti lo nu mi drata

[Jacob Errington]

On 14 July 2012 02:14, djandus <jan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Saturday, July 14, 2012 12:11:08 AM UTC-5, tsani wrote:
>>
>> I'd like to help out ! :)
>
> Awesome -- feel free to join in the fun!
> Just dive in and feel free to leave comments/questions places.
>>
>>
>> (Though it seems somepony intends to make
>> > brivla as well for some reason...?)
>> >
>>
>> I'm of the opinion that they should be zi'evla of the type {x1 is a
>> [pokemon] of type x2, level x3, and trainer x4.} Maybe an x5, but I
>> don't know what for. I'm also not sure what's more important: level or
>> type. Perhaps the trainer place isn't a smart idea. What do we put
>> there if the pokemon is wild? ({noda} is nogood.)
>>
> So, this is totally making more sense now. I immediately conceded to having
> item names be brivla, because that's inherently awesome and dumb of me to
> not do earlier. However, I feel entirely certain that the pokemon should
> have both cmevla and brivla versions. And the cmene are more important.
> Here's why -- I catch a Pikachu, and the game's first question is whether to
> give it a nickname. Provided I don't name it, Pikachu is fully intended to
> be it's name.
>
> So if I were to really get in gear and somehow be ready to put a version out
> when there was only time to get either cmevla or brivla of pokemon names,
> I'd take the cmevla first.
>

Of course, when the pokemon is caught, it's species name becomes its
given name by default. However, there's no issue with having a brivla
name. In fact, I much *prefer* brivla names over cmevla names in
general (my name is {tsani} after all).

> However, I think it will be really cool to have pokemon brivla as well. That
> would really show off a lot of Lojbanic awesomeness.
>

Indeed, and, like selpa'i said, we can then say stuff like "I caught a
Pikachu!" -> {mi kavbu lo piktcu uo!}.

> back to the issue
> suppose we make up a broda for Pikachu -- broda2 as type is very useless, as
> the type does not vary from Pikachu to Pikachu, but from pokemon species to
> species.
>

That's true, but it does give us a convenient way to ask "what is the
type of X". I agree, though, it's not very useful, and should be
removed.

> Note that la selpa'i was suggesting a fu'ivla for pokemon: {pokmone}
>

Yes, selpa'i had mentioned it in #lojban (why don't you come hang out
there with us ? :) )

> So, how about:
> pokmone: (rafsi: pok) x1 is a pokemon of species x2 and level x3

That's a great definition, but we can't assign rafsi to fu'ivla, not
to mention that we're technically not allowed to make up rafsi at all
(it violates the baseline). (I do say "technically" because we do it
all the time anyway.)

> pokjutsi: x1 is a pokemon species of type(s) x2 with evolutions/family x3

The pair [kj] isn't legal, not to mention that if it were legal, this
would be a lujvo with an unpredictable place structure, which isn't
good. We can insert arbitrary -r- hyphens though (because zi'evla
cannot contain -y-.)

> broda poi pokjutsi: x1 is a [broda] at level x2 trained by x3

Each pokemon brivla should probably encode the level. e.g. piktcu = x1
is a level x2 pikachu.
Pokemon brivla shouldn't include the trainer.
That makes {broda poi pokjutsi} unuseful, not to mention that it isn't
grammatical.

I suggest {pokrlei} for "pokemon type", in the sense of electric, ice,
water, fire, etc.
pokrlei = x1 is the type of pokemon x2.
Using this, we can say {lo piktcu cu se pokrlei lo dikca} "Pikachu is
an electric-type pokemon."

I suggest {pokrtro} for "pokemon trainer". I don't know what other
places it should have, if any. I don't think we should include the
trainer place in any of the pokemon brivla, in favour of using {fi'o
poktro}.

> "Wild [broda] appeared!" can be "lo cilce broda ku tolcanci" or similar.

That seems good.

> Tanru can affect the semantics of place structures enough for that.
> Evolutions can be described with {binxo}, and I would even go as far as to
> describe families as
> lo lanzu be la .tsirespas. ce'o la .xederespas. ce'o la .musirespas. bei lo
> nu binxo

I suggest {pokrbi'o} for "evolve". pokrbi'o = x1 evolves into x2 under
conditions x3. (giving a specific item, or reaching a certain level.)

mu'o mi'e la tsani

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[selpa'i]

Am 14.07.2012 19:11, schrieb Jacob Errington:
> On 14 July 2012 02:14, djandus <jan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Note that la selpa'i was suggesting a fu'ivla for pokemon: {pokmone}
>>
>
> Yes, selpa'i had mentioned it in #lojban (why don't you come hang out
> there with us ? :) )

I second that. :)

>
>
>> So, how about:
>> pokmone: (rafsi: pok) x1 is a pokemon of species x2 and level x3
>
> That's a great definition, but we can't assign rafsi to fu'ivla, not
> to mention that we're technically not allowed to make up rafsi at all
> (it violates the baseline). (I do say "technically" because we do it
> all the time anyway.)

Yes, I suggested that -pok- be the rafsi of pokmone. This is perfectly
fine, because, in the world of Pokemon, a Pokemon is a completely normal
thing, making it natural for it to have a rafsi. In fact, it should even
have a gismu, but I like pokmone more than something like pokme, because
it more closely resembles the original name. Anyway, within the Pokemon
world, -pok- should definitely be considered a normal rafsi.

>
>
>> pokjutsi: x1 is a pokemon species of type(s) x2 with evolutions/family x3
>
> The pair [kj] isn't legal, not to mention that if it were legal, this
> would be a lujvo with an unpredictable place structure, which isn't
> good. We can insert arbitrary -r- hyphens though (because zi'evla
> cannot contain -y-.)

Except it is isn't a zi'evla (for the reasons mentioned above). It's a
lujvo. {pokyjutsi}. I think the above definition is good.

>
>> broda poi pokjutsi: x1 is a [broda] at level x2 trained by x3
>
> Each pokemon brivla should probably encode the level. e.g. piktcu = x1
> is a level x2 pikachu.
> Pokemon brivla shouldn't include the trainer.
> That makes {broda poi pokjutsi} unuseful, not to mention that it isn't
> grammatical.
>
> I suggest {pokrlei} for "pokemon type", in the sense of electric, ice,
> water, fire, etc.
> pokrlei = x1 is the type of pokemon x2.
> Using this, we can say {lo piktcu cu se pokrlei lo dikca} "Pikachu is
> an electric-type pokemon."

I agree with everything, but I would again use {poklei} instead.

>
> I suggest {pokrtro} for "pokemon trainer". I don't know what other
> places it should have, if any. I don't think we should include the
> trainer place in any of the pokemon brivla, in favour of using {fi'o
> poktro}.

{poktro}.
Maaaaybe one could include the trainer type (there are 33 trainer types
in Gen I: e.g. Biker, Swimmer, Beauty), but they are probably not
important enough to get a place. Instead, when a "Swimmer wants to
fight!", you'd just say {lo limna cu damba djica} anyway.
So x1 is a Pokemon Trainer training Pokemon x2 [in event x3]

>
>
>> "Wild [broda] appeared!" can be "lo cilce broda ku tolcanci" or similar.
>
> That seems good.
>
>> Tanru can affect the semantics of place structures enough for that.
>> Evolutions can be described with {binxo}, and I would even go as far as to
>> describe families as
>> lo lanzu be la .tsirespas. ce'o la .xederespas. ce'o la .musirespas. bei lo
>> nu binxo
>
> I suggest {pokrbi'o} for "evolve". pokrbi'o = x1 evolves into x2 under
> conditions x3. (giving a specific item, or reaching a certain level.)

I like pure binxo. Evolving is so normal that nobody would call it
Pokemon evolution.
However, there is also farvi, which seems more precise.

It also let's you talk about about "families": lo ve farvi are all the
stages of a Pokemon.

[djandus]

However, there's no issue with having a brivla name.

I forget this more often than I care to admit.

Anywho, I don't know fu'ivla morphology at all so I am totally at others' mercy when it comes to naming pokemon with brivla. In other words, where I deprecated the cmevla for the items list, please still keep two columns in the pokemon list. That way, if I come close to completing the game and that's the last holdup, I can finish it myself.

I agree, though, it's not very useful, and should be removed.

Just to clarify, this was a bit of me making a statement about brivla definitions. The place structure is for things that can actually change within the definition, and there's no such thing as a water-type Pikachu, only an electric-type. If I were putting it in jbovlaste, I'd say

x1 is a Pikachu [electric-type pokemon] at level x2 trained by x3

(alternatively, the type would be in the notes)

In conversation, one could say

.i .ui mi kavbu lo broda

.i broda .uanai .i lo broda ku pokrjutsi ma

Also, {piktcu} is a proper lujvo, so you were using it as a nonce word and isn't what you'd put for the actual term, right?

Yes, selpa'i had mentioned it in #lojban (why don't you come hang out
there with us ? :) )

Time -- sadly, I don't have enough of it. However, jbonunsla has made me really get back into wanting to get on IRC. (That is, I'm back in the "Lojban! Cannot get enough of it!" mode. Have to get my fix!) So you may see me every now and then :)

we're technically not allowed to make up rafsi at all

That makes total sense. So, how about we claim to only use the rafsi within the game universe? (That is: We made up this rafsi for the pokemon games! It is only to be used to keep within character limits, so it is inadvisable to use it outside the game. We hold no responsibility on anypony using it in conversation, and our translation is immediately deprecated if the BPFK decides to assign it to a word.)

Keep in mind, I say this because I know nothing about fu'ivla construction. If you can figure out a way around using {pok} in any of our terms that keeps the character limit, be my guest.

> pokrjutsi: x1 is a pokemon species of type(s) x2 with evolutions/family x3

fixed :)

I'm getting better at catching disallowed consonant clusters, but I still rely on jvozba regularly.

> broda poi pokjutsi: x1 is a [broda] at level x2 trained by x3

Each pokemon brivla should probably encode the level. e.g. piktcu = x1
is a level x2 pikachu.
Pokemon brivla shouldn't include the trainer.
That makes {broda poi pokjutsi} unuseful, not to mention that it isn't
grammatical.

Sorry, I was trying to say "some brivla that is used for a pokemon species." I was trying to restrict broda, not make some claim that {lo broda poi pokjutsi} would be a useful phrase.

Now that I think of it, I really can't find much use/need/backing/reasoning behind putting a trainer place in.

I suggest {pokrlei} for "pokemon type", in the sense of electric, ice,
water, fire, etc.
pokrlei = x1 is the type of pokemon x2.
Using this, we can say {lo piktcu cu se pokrlei lo dikca} "Pikachu is
an electric-type pokemon."

And what's wrong with {lo broda ku pokrjutsi lo dikca}?

I would normally be not terribly opposed, but we are inventing very niche jargon here, and it would be best to have a few very versatile words rather than a lot that are used even less often.

(keep in mind, {lo se pokrjutsi} is useful, too)

I suggest {pokrtro} for "pokemon trainer".

Definitely. Yes to nonce modals. Yes to awesome.

However, I would like to start with {pokrjitro}. Changing between the two options is very easy going to {pokrtro}. If it's actually obnoxious, we'll just use {pokrtro}. In the meantime, let's give the fuller, longer words a chance.

(I have two other reasons for this:

I want this game to be a good teacher, a game that very young ones (perhaps Robin's kids?) could play someday and get a lot out of. It's far better to teach full gismu than rafsi.

I also want to reemphasize that we are creating a jargon space of words. Jargon is well-known for being obnoxious to get the hang of when being introduced to a concept or community. Imagine if 90% of the time you use {pokrtro} somepony goes ".uanai" and asks for what it means; it's far more likely for a first-time use of {pokrjitro} somepony goes "I know {jitro}! I get that." Also remember that in English, the primary jargon word was "poke" -- everything else that was jargon was some combination with it to make it obvious what it meant. That's what made it even easier to pick up.)

Basically, treat our {pok} psuedo-rafsi like {tol}, {sel}, or other rafsi that are frequently added to full gismu to nuance the meaning. This also means I'd like most instances to not alter the place structures, merely assign it to be pokemon-related. Thus:

pokrjitro: x1 has control over/directs pokemon x2 in x3 (probably pokemon battle)

I suggest {pokrbi'o} for "evolve". pokrbi'o = x1 evolves into x2 under
conditions x3. (giving a specific item, or reaching a certain level.)

Again, let's try {pokrbinxo} until it gets obnoxious. Honestly, I question the usefulness of adding {pokr} here. There's a useful difference between "pokemon trainer" and "trainer" but not between "evolves" and "transforms".

Note that I plan on translating "What? [ko'a] is evolving!" into {.ue .i ko'a ca binxo}. I see nothing gained by changing that to {.ue .i ko'a ca pokrbinxo}

However, this is the other reason I like using {pokr} in the same manner as {tol}, {sel}, etc. I can use normal {binxo} and you can use {pokrbinxo} or even {pokrbi'o} and neither of us will really mind or get confused in the conversation. Your words don't even have to be explicitly defined, provided I've "experienced" an evolution process while playing the game.

I'm going to shove these terms into a section of ((lai pokemon.))

mu'o mi'e djos

[djandus]

On Saturday, July 14, 2012 12:41:33 PM UTC-5, selpa'i wrote:

Except it is isn't a zi'evla (for the reasons mentioned above).

I really like your reasoning, but the words we're defining right now are primarily for ((lai pokemon.)), the words that we would want to use in the real world for discussing pokemon. ((selci'a sera'a lai pokemon.)), the terms used in the game, are another matter. Most of the time, there, I'm thinking that {pok} isn't as necessary because of the same reason -- it's so commonplace that if I say a pokemon changed {ko'a binxo} I would first assume an evolution.

Also, you have to remember that even though we make up terms for the game, should it be played, the terms will probably leak out. For example, I really like the idea story-wise of inventing a gismu like pokme for pokemon and the writing dialogue and story where the characters use it. It would make it feel very real and such. However, a reprecussion would be that players/readers would be very inclined to use pokme in real conversation, even if a fu'ivla existed, as it's the term they would see more often and have to interpret. In short, save it for the fanfiction ;P

I like pure binxo. Evolving is so normal that nopony would call it 

Pokemon evolution.
However, there is also farvi, which seems more precise.

ooh, farvi is very nice. However, what's the difference between farvi1 and farvi3?

It also let's you talk about about "families": lo ve farvi are all the
stages of a Pokemon.

Yes, that's most excellent.

mu'o mi'e djos.

[selpa'i]

Am 14.07.2012 21:47, schrieb djandus:

On Saturday, July 14, 2012 12:41:33 PM UTC-5, selpa'i wrote:

Except it is isn't a zi'evla (for the reasons mentioned above).

I really like your reasoning, but the words we're defining right now are primarily for ((lai pokemon.)), the words that we would want to use in the real world for discussing pokemon. ((selci'a sera'a lai pokemon.)), the terms used in the game, are another matter.

Oh, I was talking about in-game language only. I'm only interested in getting this game done and actually playing it.

Most of the time, there, I'm thinking that {pok} isn't as necessary because of the same reason -- it's so commonplace that if I say a pokemon changed {ko'a binxo} I would first assume an evolution.

Also, you have to remember that even though we make up terms for the game, should it be played, the terms will probably leak out. For example, I really like the idea story-wise of inventing a gismu like pokme for pokemon and the writing dialogue and story where the characters use it. It would make it feel very real and such. However, a reprecussion would be that players/readers would be very inclined to use pokme in real conversation, even if a fu'ivla existed, as it's the term they would see more often and have to interpret. In short, save it for the fanfiction ;P

You really don't need to worry about that. The in-world (in-game) usage is way more important than any of the possible repurcussions you listed. It's really not a big deal to create a word such as pokme, and we're definitely safe using pokmone. Realness is priority number 1 if the goal is to create a great game experience.

[vitci'i]

On 07/14/2012 02:47 PM, djandus wrote:
> ooh, farvi is very nice. However, what's the difference between farvi1 and
> farvi3?

I read it as farvi1 being the aspect of identity that does not change
and farvi3 being the state changed out of. Thus, if Bob started as a
Caterpie and eventually became a Butterfree, then {la bab farvi la
batrfri la katrpai la metypad}.

[djandus]

Then it sounds like {te farvi} is often what we want to use.

"What? [ko'a] is evolving!" as {.ue .i ko'a ca te farvi} -- sound good?

[djandus]

Nevermind, I just remembered that that's going to be using a name anyway

{.ue .i lo broda ca farvi}

I'll also be working on importing battle statements into the wiki page today.

[Jacob Errington]

Of course, that's the #1 goal, but even in books, the narrator will
use only standard vocabulary or will distort the narrative to suit the
reader. Consider that case of a book narrated in English in which the
characters however speak Mandarin: "Hi! What did you do before she
came over?" he said.
"he" presumably said it in Mandarin, but because the book is being
read by people who don't speak that language, then it's necessary to
change the quotation, which doesn't event reflect what is actually
being said!
By that same logic, even though in-world, the characters might use
loads of local/specific vocabulary, we *are* allowed to *not* use that
vocabulary.
Additionally, if we do use -pok- as a rafsi for pokmone/pokme (I do
prefer {pokmone}) we *can* expect all those pseudo-lujvo and such to
escape into the real world. Now of course, we *are* allowed to do
this: who's going to stop us? No one. Lojban is GNU/Loglan after all.
*we* can do whatever we like with the language; the BPFK aren't going
to send C&D orders at us.

I say, let using "illegal" words be on the consciences of the players,
if they so choose to use those words outside of the game. It's not
like making them into zi'evla is hard: stick an -r- hyphen right in
the rafsi border.

mu'o mi'e la tsani

>
> mu'o mi'e la selpa'i
>
> --
> .i pau mi me ma .i pa mai ko mi jungau la'e di'u
> .i ba bo mi va'o lo nu nelci lo nu me ma kau cu barkla
> .i va'o lo nu na nelci cu denpa ti lo nu mi drata
>
>
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "lojban" group.

[Pierre Abbat]

On Saturday 14 July 2012 13:11:45 Jacob Errington wrote:
> Indeed, and, like selpa'i said, we can then say stuff like "I caught a
> Pikachu!" -> {mi kavbu lo piktcu uo!}.

Your use of "piktcu" needs to be commented on :)

On Saturday 14 July 2012 15:34:38 djandus wrote:
> > > pokrjutsi: x1 is a pokemon species of type(s) x2 with evolutions/family
> >
> > x3
>
> fixed :)

If you're making a lujvo, that would be "pokyjutsi"; "pokrjutsi" is a type-3
fu'ivla. However, using "pok" as the rafsi for "pokmone" is contrary to the
rules of the language. Some fu'ivla have a rafsi formed by deleting the last
letter (which is necessarily a vowel), but no fu'ivla has a rafsi shorter
than that, and "pokmon" cannot be a rafsi because it's the concatenation of
two rafsi. I'd rather see you use "pok" as the rafsi of "pokme".

Pierre
--
li fi'u vu'u fi'u fi'u du li pa

[Jacob Errington]

On 14 July 2012 17:44, Pierre Abbat <ph...@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
> On Saturday 14 July 2012 13:11:45 Jacob Errington wrote:
>> Indeed, and, like selpa'i said, we can then say stuff like "I caught a
>> Pikachu!" -> {mi kavbu lo piktcu uo!}.
>
> Your use of "piktcu" needs to be commented on :)

I see what you did there ;)
Yeah, I just picked a phonologically similar brivla at random,
disregarding that it be a proper lujvo.

mu'o mi'e la tsani

>

> On Saturday 14 July 2012 15:34:38 djandus wrote:
>> > > pokrjutsi: x1 is a pokemon species of type(s) x2 with evolutions/family
>> >
>> > x3
>>
>> fixed :)
>
> If you're making a lujvo, that would be "pokyjutsi"; "pokrjutsi" is a type-3
> fu'ivla. However, using "pok" as the rafsi for "pokmone" is contrary to the
> rules of the language. Some fu'ivla have a rafsi formed by deleting the last
> letter (which is necessarily a vowel), but no fu'ivla has a rafsi shorter
> than that, and "pokmon" cannot be a rafsi because it's the concatenation of
> two rafsi. I'd rather see you use "pok" as the rafsi of "pokme".
>
> Pierre
> --
> li fi'u vu'u fi'u fi'u du li pa
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.

[Joe Anderson]

On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 4:38 PM, Jacob Errington <nict...@gmail.com> wrote:

I say, let using "illegal" words be on the consciences of the players,

if they so choose to use those words outside of the game. It's not
like making them into zi'evla is hard: stick an -r- hyphen right in
the rafsi border.

This is my policy as well; however, I want to avoid the zi'evla issue, as I expect (and will encourage) the game to be played by those who wouldn't know how to convert it to zi'evla. The -pok- issue, on the other hand, is obvious -- the user knows it's an invented term and will only come across issues if ko'a knows how rafsi work.

[selpa'i]

Am 14.07.2012 23:44, schrieb Pierre Abbat:
> If you're making a lujvo, that would be "pokyjutsi"; "pokrjutsi" is a type-3
> fu'ivla. However, using "pok" as the rafsi for "pokmone" is contrary to the
> rules of the language. Some fu'ivla have a rafsi formed by deleting the last
> letter (which is necessarily a vowel), but no fu'ivla has a rafsi shorter
> than that, and "pokmon" cannot be a rafsi because it's the concatenation of
> two rafsi. I'd rather see you use "pok" as the rafsi of "pokme".

That's true. If you strictly follow the normal rules, -pok- cannot be
the rafsi of pokmone, but we are allowed flexibility as artists. The
strict rafsi would be -pokmone'y-. Personally, I'm okay with both
pokmone and pokme. As I already said, it only seems natural that a gismu
would exist for "Pokemon" in a world where they are everywhere, plus it
would be more closely following the rules of Lojban where only gismu can
have 3-letter rafsi.

[djandus]

It appears I forgot to respond to this.

On Saturday, July 14, 2012 2:42:34 AM UTC-5, iesk wrote:

I just looked and noticed some impossible me'evla

Yeah, that page was the original one I found. It was largely one pony's work, and I noticed in its history that it was occasionally corrected by somepony else for bad consonant clusters, so I figured there would be some bad ones in there.

Thanks for checking :)

[vitci'i]

On 07/14/2012 11:16 PM, djandus wrote:
> Yeah, that page was the original one I found. It was largely one pony's
> work,

ma ve radji'i du'u le za'e xirpe'o cu finti kei

[djandus]

.u'usai

.i mi pilno la'o gy. Chrome Extension called Ponify Everything gy. lo nu zdile

.i ra so'oroi galfi lo se ciska be mi

[vitci'i]

.oicu'i

[djandus]

After much thought, I've decided that the most elegant/sensible solution in-game is to use a gismu for "Pokemon"

However, I'm not entirely convinced it should be {pokme}. Given that I've heard "Pokemon" said many ways, the possible lojbanizations I see, in order of most-often-heard by me:

pokiman

pokyman

pokeman

Given these, I think {pokma} is an obvious choice. (Hell, if you cheat and put a buffer vowel in there...)

So, I'm planning on using the in-game term:

pokma -pok-

[djandus]

Before anypony gets really confuzzled, I added the terms a little we made up to ((lai pokemon.))... without really adding them like you would expect.

I based them all of {pokrmone} and built selbri to fit the "lujvo" we made.

In every case, you can chop off a bunch and just take the mane gismu and use {pokrbroda} or the corresponding rafsi, etc, and easily get our cheat words, with the exact same definitions.

That way, we can cheat and use {pokrbroda} while having a primary document consistent with the language.

[la .lindar.]

"What? [ko'a] is evolving!" as {.ue .i ko'a ca te farvi} -- sound good?

You want that {.ue} inside the jufra otherwise it sounds weird.

Keep in mind that you absolutely do not need to word-for-word translate. Take some creative liberties and and think of what would seem more natural for a Lojban-speaker to say in that situation. Word-for-word translations will come out bad 90% of the time I can tell you from personal experience. If you don't believe me, try translating something word-for-word back into English, especially Lojban.

Good luck, my little jbofanvas. 

[la .lindar.]

Also, did anybody actually think to translate the name instead of just Lojbanising it?

daskycizda'u / daskyda'u

"Pocket Monster" > "Poketto Monsutaa" > "Poketto Monsutaa" > "Pokemon"

daski zei danlu > daskyda'u

[djandus]

On Sunday, July 15, 2012 1:18:38 AM UTC-5, la .lindar. wrote:

"Pocket Monster" > "Poketto Monsutaa" > "Poketto Monsutaa" > "Pokemon"

Whoops. I always thought "Poké" was some made-up, trademarked term. I knew "mon" was for monster, though!

 

Heck yes. {daskyda'u} should totally be mentioned as well. (I just added it to the wiki.)

I still really like using {pokma} in-game, as it really makes a lot of sense in that context. That, and {pok} is far too helpful for character limits.

[selpa'i]

The problem is that you based it on (American) English pronunciation. The original name in Japanse was poketto monsutaa, so if you were to pick the beginning of the second word, it would have to be pokmo.
pokme was suggested because it preserves the e from "poke", which is the most important part of the name. So I would personally prefer pokme and even pokmo over pokma.

[djandus]

Okay, so I add to my list:

poketo.monsuta

pokiman

pokyman

pokeman

I'm still wondering how the "e" is supposedly the most important letter. Or why you would only take one letter from half the meaning. Or why you're stressing that the Japanese is important to base it on when they're just loan words from English anyway. But then "Pocket Monster" gives you

pokt.manstyr

All it all, it little matters. I'm using it now, and if you somehow convince me it should be any different by the end, I can run a find-replace. Doubtful.

[selpa'i]

Am 15.07.2012 13:15, schrieb djandus:

Okay, so I add to my list:

poketo.monsuta

pokiman

pokyman

pokeman

I'm still wondering how the "e" is supposedly the most important letter. Or why you would only take one letter from half the meaning. Or why you're stressing that the Japanese is important to base it on when they're just loan words from English anyway. But then "Pocket Monster" gives you

pokt.manstyr

Again, this could just as well be pokytmonsty or a variation thereof. Also, listing three American pronunciations is very biased. If anything, compare the six source languages pronunciations of the word.

But I should have been more clear about the e. I didn't say the e itself was the most important part. "poke" is. We have Pokeballs, Pokecenter, Pokewhatnot. That's why I thought it would be good to keep the e from poke.

mu'o mi'e la slepa'i

[djandus]

All right. A summary of things to work on:

• Pokemon names: 150 brivla, if you know you're morphology. 56 cmene, which are back-burner. The cmene already written have a few errors, more than likely.
• Item names: I finished converting all the terms to selbri. About halfway done. I also cleaned up the comments. As part of that, I'm moving these comments of mine here:
• For the pokéballs, I kind of wanted to brag with Lojban a little. With the numerical+pokeball lujvo, all of the proper meaning and parallelism is conveyed very concisely, with a bit of a pun on "Master Ball" (it's both the last ball and the ball that catches all, so I found {rolpokyboi} particularly appropriate) Otherwise, I find it very difficult to actually translate things like "great" and "ultra" and "master" in a way that conveys obviously which is better than which.
  
• I'm having trouble with "badge" -- right now, I'm debating between si'asni and selji'a -- any ideas?
• Attack names: I've barely touched these, and there's a lot of them.
• I figured out how to get things like "metronome" to work with the {ko'a cu broda} wording.
• Have fun with "splash". My brother was joking to make it {malba'i jaurgunta}, {citmle jaurgunta}, or similar. I would like to emphasize the obvious here and say that the selbri description should be objectively describing the action of the attack -- describing it's effectiveness would be 4th-wall-breaking and/or subjecting your own opinion.
• Dialogue/Other: This is my focus. I've given up for now on posting dialogue to be translated, and instead plan on posting them as I translate them, maybe uploading the rom as I finish certain sections. I've properly edited the font and a few other programming tasks, and have moved on to almost finish the intro.

[selpa'i]

Am 15.07.2012 14:36, schrieb djandus:

All right. A summary of things to work on:

• [...]
  

• Dialogue/Other: This is my focus. I've given up for now on posting dialogue to be translated, and instead plan on posting them as I translate them, maybe uploading the rom as I finish certain sections. I've properly edited the font and a few other programming tasks, and have moved on to almost finish the intro.

I would also very much like to translate the actual dialogue. There is a lot of it, and we'll finish faster when more people work on it at the same time. So could you please upload the English dialogue? Thanks.

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

[Sid]

What version of the game will you be translating? The original GB one
or maybe one of the GBA ones? (IMO, translating one of the GBA ones
would be the best, since it doesn't seem to be too hard to romhack, at
least from what little I've seen)

mi'e cntr

[selpa'i]

Am 15.07.2012 16:10, schrieb Sid:
> What version of the game will you be translating? The original GB one
> or maybe one of the GBA ones? (IMO, translating one of the GBA ones
> would be the best, since it doesn't seem to be too hard to romhack, at
> least from what little I've seen)

Generation I (blue, red, yellow). It says so on the page, too.

[djandus]

On Sunday, July 15, 2012 7:59:53 AM UTC-5, selpa'i wrote:

I would also very much like to translate the actual dialogue. There is a lot of it, and we'll finish faster when more ponies work on it at the same time. So could you please upload the English dialogue? Thanks.

Agreed. The issue was, what I originally thought I could upload quickly is actually very broken up and disjointed. I just found a very good section to upload, however -- the Pokedex entries. They're all together and have no replacement words to break them up. Also, there are some other sections I found that are all together. They'll be uploaded soon.

Also, very much the purpose of the wiki is so that ponies who want to help can, and I can just ignore all of that and focus on the parts that are too troublesome to upload. However, I still really want everypony to check over my translations, so that's why I brought up the uploading of ROM.

[djandus]

On Sunday, July 15, 2012 9:10:10 AM UTC-5, cntrational wrote:

(IMO, translating one of the GBA ones
would be the best, since it doesn't seem to be too hard to romhack, at
least from what little I've seen)

No need to worry about romhacking -- I already have the environment set up to work on them, which is why I want to upload the ROM when I get the intro done. Just so that you all can see it :) It makes me very excited every time it works -- and I've only had it crash not-at-the-beginning once so far! (By accidentally throwing an 8-char name at it, when 7-char is the limit.)

[selpa'i]

Am 15.07.2012 21:35, schrieb djandus:
> No need to worry about romhacking -- I already have the environment
> set up to work on them, which is why I want to upload the ROM when I
> get the intro done. Just so that you all can see it :) It makes me
> very excited every time it works

I'm also very excited to see the intro! Can't wait!

[djandus]

• Attack names: I've barely touched these, and there's a lot of them.
• I figured out how to get things like "metronome" to work with the {ko'a cu broda} wording.

There were these comments in the wiki:

• I'm planning on using "ko'a cu broda" for "[[pokemon] used [[attack]!" Be certain the x1 can be filled by the pokemon name. Also, sometimes the selbri must be more descriptive than what it's translating. See "METRONOME" and [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Metronome_(move)#Description|Bulbapedia].
•  I just had an idea. "ko'a cu broda" is good and all, but it's somewhat limiting because now there must be a built-in agent place everywhere, and in some cases that would make the word too long. I think a good solution would be a template of this form: "ko'a zo'u broda", as now you can use anything you want, which means more freedom in our translations. --((selpa'i))

I agree with selpa'i. At first it seems a little awkward, but I'm pretty sure this is an excellent use of {zo'u}. And the agent thing is definitely awkward for the attacks with obscure causality. (Psybeam? Double Edge? Sonic Boom?) Technically, we don't have to have an agent place, but we would at least have to have the x1 always be the pokemon, which puts gasnu, darxi, and gunta all over the place unnecessarily. (And vaguely)

So I'm officially changing the standard so that you all can be more free in translation.

[djandus]

Holy crap.

On Sunday, July 15, 2012 2:29:14 PM UTC-5, djandus wrote:

The issue was, what I originally thought I could upload quickly is actually very broken up and disjointed.

 So, I figured something out that should help explain both this and what I mean by "let me handle line endings."

For all displayed text in boxes at the bottom, (what I'm broadly calling "dialogue") there are about 4 different line ending types. They vary based on extra instructions of clearing the two lines, merely going to the next line, continuing to a new page, etc. They have very confusing interactions that I'm still getting the hang of.

The terrible part is that these endline characters are written in as references to instructions or characters that are contextually determined. So, the endline character set for the pokedex entries is different from when Professor Oak is talking in the intro is different from when Professor Oak stops you from leaving Pallet Town is different from when you talk to that random stallion in that one place...

yeah. Assembly is awesome.

And while I'm on random assembly tidbits, somepony else disassembled the code I'm working with. They have spent two years on the project, giving everything good variable names and even commenting the code pretty well. The fun part is, whoever did this actually has found some pretty amusing bugs in the code. My favorite comments so far are:

During movement:

; the code below is strange
; it computes whether or not the player did a 180 degree turn, but then overwrites the result
; also, it does a seemingly pointless loop afterwards

During the beginning of a turn in a battle, when it checks for fly/dig status, etc:

; this code is buggy. it's supposed to prevent HP draining moves from working on substitutes.
; since $7b79 overwrites a with either $00 or $01, it never works. 

[Braden Shepherdson]

I'm also in for this. My proficiency at Lojban is weak with tsani and
selpa'i in on the project, but I can add some technical support if
needed (I'm a professional software developer) and I will be an eager
playtester when the time comes. I will also supply some manpower, if
it's needed, filling in the Pokemon and item names.

Braden

On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Jacob Errington <nict...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 14 July 2012 02:14, djandus <jan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Saturday, July 14, 2012 12:11:08 AM UTC-5, tsani wrote:
>>>
>>> I'd like to help out ! :)
>>
>> Awesome -- feel free to join in the fun!
>> Just dive in and feel free to leave comments/questions places.
>>>
>>>
>>> (Though it seems somepony intends to make
>>> > brivla as well for some reason...?)
>>> >
>>>
>>> I'm of the opinion that they should be zi'evla of the type {x1 is a
>>> [pokemon] of type x2, level x3, and trainer x4.} Maybe an x5, but I
>>> don't know what for. I'm also not sure what's more important: level or
>>> type. Perhaps the trainer place isn't a smart idea. What do we put
>>> there if the pokemon is wild? ({noda} is nogood.)
>>>
>> So, this is totally making more sense now. I immediately conceded to having
>> item names be brivla, because that's inherently awesome and dumb of me to
>> not do earlier. However, I feel entirely certain that the pokemon should
>> have both cmevla and brivla versions. And the cmene are more important.
>> Here's why -- I catch a Pikachu, and the game's first question is whether to
>> give it a nickname. Provided I don't name it, Pikachu is fully intended to
>> be it's name.
>>
>> So if I were to really get in gear and somehow be ready to put a version out
>> when there was only time to get either cmevla or brivla of pokemon names,
>> I'd take the cmevla first.
>>
>
> Of course, when the pokemon is caught, it's species name becomes its
> given name by default. However, there's no issue with having a brivla
> name. In fact, I much *prefer* brivla names over cmevla names in
> general (my name is {tsani} after all).
>
>> However, I think it will be really cool to have pokemon brivla as well. That
>> would really show off a lot of Lojbanic awesomeness.

>>
>
> Indeed, and, like selpa'i said, we can then say stuff like "I caught a
> Pikachu!" -> {mi kavbu lo piktcu uo!}.
>

>> back to the issue
>> suppose we make up a broda for Pikachu -- broda2 as type is very useless, as
>> the type does not vary from Pikachu to Pikachu, but from pokemon species to
>> species.
>>
>
> That's true, but it does give us a convenient way to ask "what is the
> type of X". I agree, though, it's not very useful, and should be
> removed.
>
>> Note that la selpa'i was suggesting a fu'ivla for pokemon: {pokmone}
>>
>
> Yes, selpa'i had mentioned it in #lojban (why don't you come hang out
> there with us ? :) )
>
>> So, how about:
>> pokmone: (rafsi: pok) x1 is a pokemon of species x2 and level x3
>
> That's a great definition, but we can't assign rafsi to fu'ivla, not
> to mention that we're technically not allowed to make up rafsi at all
> (it violates the baseline). (I do say "technically" because we do it
> all the time anyway.)
>
>> pokjutsi: x1 is a pokemon species of type(s) x2 with evolutions/family x3
>
> The pair [kj] isn't legal, not to mention that if it were legal, this
> would be a lujvo with an unpredictable place structure, which isn't
> good. We can insert arbitrary -r- hyphens though (because zi'evla
> cannot contain -y-.)
>
>> broda poi pokjutsi: x1 is a [broda] at level x2 trained by x3
>
> Each pokemon brivla should probably encode the level. e.g. piktcu = x1
> is a level x2 pikachu.
> Pokemon brivla shouldn't include the trainer.
> That makes {broda poi pokjutsi} unuseful, not to mention that it isn't
> grammatical.
>
> I suggest {pokrlei} for "pokemon type", in the sense of electric, ice,
> water, fire, etc.
> pokrlei = x1 is the type of pokemon x2.
> Using this, we can say {lo piktcu cu se pokrlei lo dikca} "Pikachu is
> an electric-type pokemon."
>
> I suggest {pokrtro} for "pokemon trainer". I don't know what other
> places it should have, if any. I don't think we should include the
> trainer place in any of the pokemon brivla, in favour of using {fi'o
> poktro}.
>
>> "Wild [broda] appeared!" can be "lo cilce broda ku tolcanci" or similar.
>
> That seems good.
>
>> Tanru can affect the semantics of place structures enough for that.
>> Evolutions can be described with {binxo}, and I would even go as far as to
>> describe families as
>> lo lanzu be la .tsirespas. ce'o la .xederespas. ce'o la .musirespas. bei lo
>> nu binxo
>
> I suggest {pokrbi'o} for "evolve". pokrbi'o = x1 evolves into x2 under
> conditions x3. (giving a specific item, or reaching a certain level.)
>
> mu'o mi'e la tsani

>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "lojban" group.

>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/xJkv47TJucYJ.

[djandus]

On Sunday, July 15, 2012 7:36:04 AM UTC-5, djandus wrote:

• Dialogue/Other: This is my focus. I've given up for now on posting dialogue to be translated, and instead plan on posting them as I translate them, maybe uploading the rom as I finish certain sections. I've properly edited the font and a few other programming tasks, and have moved on to almost finish the intro.

All right, not only have I edited the wiki to add in the pokedex text, intro text, and most of the in-game text, I've finished editing the ROM with translated intro text and options menu. However, there is currently a blatant bug that won't let you get past the beginning of the game, so until that's fixed, I'm not uploading. (.i ta'o mi prami la'o gy. Version Control gy.)

Please check the wiki out. Also, I've not finished formatting/splitting the in-game text I added. It's pretty straightforward to do -- if you want to split it apart yourself and translate, go ahead. If you come across one you can't figure out how it's divided, just leave it.

[djandus]

On Monday, July 16, 2012 12:41:03 PM UTC-5, djandus wrote:

However, there is currently a blatant bug that won't let you get past the beginning of the game

bug fixed!

Download the rom here. The baserom is here.

I recommend getting VBA-M to play it. It's crossplatform.

What's done: start menu, options menu, intro text before Oak stops you

Things to watch for:

• The code for the Rival's default names is disassembled, but not the code for the Player's. I have implemented both versions so you can compare them; if I can't lojbanize Player's by the time I'm done, I'll have to change Rival's back to match.
• Every single "paragraph" of Oak's speech came out equal or shorter in length in Lojban, excepting the last one. It has figurative language that I'm not really sure what to do with. I made an attempt to translate it literally, but it's pretty obscure. Feel free to take a stab at it.
• The next section has a few bits identifying the speaker. ("Gary: Blah blah blah.") I feel like the most concise way of handling this is with {mi'e}, but that doesn't feel right since Gary doesn't actually say it. How does {.i mi'e sa'a .geris. broda brode brodi} sound? Note that {.i mi'e sa'a <name>} takes up an entire line.
• The options menu is a little interesting. The last option actually means nothing to me -- I asked my fillyfriend what she remembered it meant and translated it based off that. (Something about whether moving something shifts it up/down or swaps directly with another.) However, for the life of me, I cannot find what it's supposed to change, so feel free to give me a better translation.

I'm really starting to get the hang of this. The rest of the game will be more limited by translation speed, I think.

[djandus]

On Monday, July 16, 2012 5:53:15 PM UTC-5, djandus wrote:

Download the rom here. The baserom is here.

I recommend getting VBA-M to play it. It's crossplatform.

Given I've already made some pretty useful changes, and I realize that this changes quickly, I'm going to keep a running romlist here:

http://jandew.ersoft.org/download/lojban/pokered/

Feel free to grab the most recent version any time you like.

Note the name editor, should you test it :)

[djandus]

On Monday, July 16, 2012 5:53:15 PM UTC-5, djandus wrote:

I recommend getting VBA-M to play it. It's crossplatform.

Just realized that this is not the most informative.

http://vba.ngemu.com/

Visual Colt Advance. 'Tis awesome. 

[la .lindar.]

Post pokedex entries?

I'd be happy to translate a few of them if you provide a jargon sheet.

[djandus]

http://www.lojban.org/tiki/selci%27a+sera%27a+lai+pokemon.#Pokedex_Entries

There's pokedex entries

http://www.lojban.org/tiki/lai+pokemon.#Basic

There's some jargon -- in-game, we're using {pokma} in the same way as pokrmone / daskyda'u.

I recommend tagging anything you have questions about with some ctrl-f-able marking, such as "(?)"

Basically, whenever anypony makes changes, I glance over the changelog email for anything uncertain and try to clear it up. If it's a jargon issue, I'll fix it and add it as an entry in the jargon wiki page.

[la .lindar.]

I have to tell you, I couldn't really understand a lot of what was said in the intro.

Can I also see a list for that?

[selpa'i]

Am 17.07.2012 00:53, schrieb djandus:

On Monday, July 16, 2012 12:41:03 PM UTC-5, djandus wrote:

However, there is currently a blatant bug that won't let you get past the beginning of the game

bug fixed!

Download the rom here. The baserom is here.

I played it and I have to say it's an amazing thing to see Lojban in a game.
I noticed you accidently used remna instead of morji, and cfipu instead of cifnu, so I replaced those, and also, I made some stylistic changes to the intro text. I'll keep play-testing the next iterations.

Oh, and, this is probably not a big deal, but I would really prefer pokme over pokma. Could we at least have a poll of some sort? pokma doesn't feel right to me. What do other people think that are in on this project?

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

[Braden Shepherdson]

I'm indifferent as to pokma vs. pokme. Looking forward to a chance to
play through the intro!

Braden

[Craig Daniel]

On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 11:26 AM, selpa'i <sel...@gmx.de> wrote:
>

> I played it and I have to say it's an amazing thing to see Lojban in a game.
> I noticed you accidently used remna instead of morji, and cfipu instead of
> cifnu, so I replaced those, and also, I made some stylistic changes to the
> intro text. I'll keep play-testing the next iterations.
>
> Oh, and, this is probably not a big deal, but I would really prefer pokme
> over pokma. Could we at least have a poll of some sort? pokma doesn't feel
> right to me. What do other people think that are in on this project?
>

My Lojban's not up to helping translate anymore (but I intend to try
playing anyway when it's done), but since the point is to translate it
into the Lojban we have rather than the hypothetical Lojban of an
alternate world with pokemon inhabiting it, I have a mild preference
for fu'ivla.

- mi'e .kreig.

[djandus]

On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:56:08 AM UTC-5, teucer wrote:

My Lojban's not up to helping translate anymore

Even if you aren't particularly experienced, you can help out. If you check out lai pokemon., a lot of the pokemon have already been translated, but into cmevla. The general process to turn those into brivla is simply drop the {s.} at the end, throw it into vlasisku, see if it chops it up into something that makes sense, then use it as the brivla.

For example, the first one, Bulbasaur, has been translated into {tsirespas.}, which lends itself to using {tsirespa}, which vlasisku parses as {tsiju respa}, a seed/spore-reptile. Not bad, so you can add {tsirespa} to the brivla column.

If you want to take it one step further, you can throw {tsiju respa} into jvozba and take the highest-scoring lujvo that is still within the character limit. (And yes, I do want the highest-scoring.) In this case, that means you want to add {tsijyrespa}. But that's an optional step.

This would be really helpful because any you skip would be fu'ivla that could be left to somepony else to focus on.

mu'o mi'e djos

[selpa'i]

Am 18.07.2012 00:07, schrieb djandus:

If you want to take it one step further, you can throw {tsiju respa} into jvozba and take the highest-scoring lujvo that is still within the character limit. (And yes, I do want the highest-scoring.)

Remember that the best lujvo is the one with the lowest score. So in jvozba, pick the one at the top of the list, which is tsirespa.

Here are some additional points I noticed:
When Oak asks you to enter your name, the window says "cmen", so I see it has a character limit of 4. How about using {me'e} there?
And then in the options menu, I would change jbini masno to masno jbini. The rest of the options menu seems good, but I would probably use barkla instead of barli'a, or just cliva by itself. It's not very important though, especially not at this point.

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

[djandus]

On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 5:13:14 PM UTC-5, selpa'i wrote:

Remember that the best lujvo is the one with the lowest score. So in jvozba, pick the one at the top of the list, which is tsirespa.

This is what I was saying about jargon and this translation. The lowest score is best for lujvo that are used often in daily conversation, stuff I'd put in the JVS for every Lojbanist to use. It's also best for basic ideas that are likely to be built off of, such as how {toldra} is a basic concept used all the time, especially in tanru. It's a good thing to know as a separate word for "incorrect", less important to know that it's derived from {to'e drani}.

We are making a list of jargon words. They have a very, very limited use and are not basic concepts at all, but species of creature. We want them to be as obviously descriptive as possible, not obscure and requiring a player to go to a dictionary to remember some rafsi or another. Thus, the highest score is best.

tl;dr: low scores are for permanent, widespread words. high scores are for lesser-used, more descriptive words. Let's go for clarity here.

Here are some additional points I noticed:
When Oak asks you to enter your name, the window says "cmen", so I see it has a character limit of 4. How about using {me'e} there?

Sounds good. 

And then in the options menu, I would change jbini masno to masno jbini.

Wait, are you asking me to put the options as "Fast, Slow, or In Between"? because that requires a lot more effort than you think ><

The rest of the options menu seems good, but I would probably use barkla instead of barli'a, or just cliva by itself.

I'm grabbing that from what's "supposed" to be one of the standard documents on computer terms. Frankly, ever since I put it in, I've been wanting to change it to {cliva}. Since somepony else thinks so, too, I probably will. (That whole clarity thing I mentioned above applies here.)

It's not very important though, especially not at this point.

It's good to say it now than forget to say it later. 

ki'ecai

[selpa'i]

Am 18.07.2012 00:48, schrieb djandus:

On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 5:13:14 PM UTC-5, selpa'i wrote:

Remember that the best lujvo is the one with the lowest score. So in jvozba, pick the one at the top of the list, which is tsirespa.

This is what I was saying about jargon and this translation. The lowest score is best for lujvo that are used often in daily conversation, stuff I'd put in the JVS for every Lojbanist to use. It's also best for basic ideas that are likely to be built off of, such as how {toldra} is a basic concept used all the time, especially in tanru. It's a good thing to know as a separate word for "incorrect", less important to know that it's derived from {to'e drani}.

We are making a list of jargon words. They have a very, very limited use and are not basic concepts at all, but species of creature. We want them to be as obviously descriptive as possible, not obscure and requiring a player to go to a dictionary to remember some rafsi or another. Thus, the highest score is best.

tl;dr: low scores are for permanent, widespread words. high scores are for lesser-used, more descriptive words. Let's go for clarity here.

Hrm... I don't necessarily agree. A skilled Lojbanist has to know that tsi = tsiju. Using the highest scoring lujvo just gives you longer words = wastes space. But regardless of this, many Pokemon have fu'ivla names, so you will have to memorize them anyway. It's very much like in English, where the name reminds you of an actual English word (Mankey > Monkey).
In fact, I'd say fu'ivla are better for Pokemon names than lujvo. The names I came up with so far are all fu'ivla that are based on lujvo, but because they are fu'ivla, they have this special feel to them, they are much more like names. The reason why I think fu'ivla are better is that otherwise you end up with words that could easily refer to a real-world thing e.g. {jirnyrespa} "Horn Reptile" for something like Nidoking (this is just an example) would be better used to describe a real animal in the real world than some pokemon. You never have this problem when using fu'ivla.

Here are some additional points I noticed:
When Oak asks you to enter your name, the window says "cmen", so I see it has a character limit of 4. How about using {me'e} there?

Sounds good. 

And then in the options menu, I would change jbini masno to masno jbini.

Wait, are you asking me to put the options as "Fast, Slow, or In Between"? because that requires a lot more effort than you think ><

Nevermind. It looked as if it was just two options: [sutra] and [jbini masno], where I thought you meant jibni masno, which I would have changed to masno jibni. But it's actually three options, so it's all fine :)

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

[djandus]

On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:02:14 PM UTC-5, selpa'i wrote:

A skilled Lojbanist has to know that tsi = tsiju.

I completely agree. The issue is that I want unskilled lojbanists to enjoy the game. Again, think of Pokémon originally. A game for kids. Unskilled English speakers could follow it easily. I discussed this with Lindar last night, and he mentioned how the Japanese version had very little kanji. Same reason. Sure, a skilled Japanese reader should be able to read all kanji all the time quickly, but that's just not the point of making an enjoyable game.

It's very much like in English, where the name reminds you of an actual English word (Mankey > Monkey). 

That's what the fu'ivla are like, sure. But the lojban should be explicit.

e.g. {jirnyrespa} "Horn Reptile" for something like Nidoking (this is just an example)

I'm entirely okay with this. That means (gasp!) that playing a game helped you know a word in the real world. Sure, it may be amusing that every time you see that horned lizard you think of Nidoking (who isn't a reptile, is he?), but past that, you get to have an association that you can remember easily. (And also to clear something up: If I were to make a lujvo for Nidoking, it would probably involve looking at this and picking an interpretation. {jesnoltrunau} barely fits, but it uses {noltrunau}, which is an official lujvo, so I'd be more likely to go with it. Also, lujvo with parallels between six pokémon are going to need a lot of rafsi. My point being, I really doubt anypony would name a pokemon with a boring lujvo that could describe a normal creature. Maybe an exotic one, but not a boring, commonplace one. I'm going to post the six pokemon in the Nidoran family, translated in this way, in the wiki.)

I'd like to mention here that I hope these aren't all going to be entered in as official lujvo. So much jargon, when there are such better words to fill a dictionary with...

You never have this problem when using fu'ivla.

Instead, you get 150 completely new words that are only vaguely lojban-based. Yay.

Note, I have nothing against using fu'ivla for pokemon. I expect a lot of them to be fine and great. However, I think {tsijyrespa} is awesome for "Bulbasaur", and far better suited for what I want this to be: a game that Lojbanists enjoy and can use to help learn some terminology. So, whenever possible, I want long lujvo.

Oh, and just an update -- I'm going to try to ignore stuff on here for a bit and kick out a better intro text, as well as the other things you've mentioned. I'm almost ready to move forward to bigger things! Thanks for all the input so far, and keep it up!

[Pierre Abbat]

On Tuesday 17 July 2012 18:07:02 djandus wrote:
> For example, the first one, Bulbasaur, has been translated into
> {tsirespas.}, which lends itself to using {tsirespa}, which

> vlasisku<http://vlasisku.lojban.org/vlasisku/tsirespa> parses as {tsiju

> respa}, a seed/spore-reptile. Not bad, so you can add {tsirespa} to the
> brivla column.

Why isn't it "baljyrespa"?

Pierre

--
li fi'u vu'u fi'u fi'u du li pa

[djandus]

On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:01:11 PM UTC-5, Pierre Abbat wrote:

Why isn't it "baljyrespa"?

No good reason. It's {baljyrespa} now.

ki'e

.i mu'o mi'e djos

[djandus]

On Monday, July 16, 2012 8:37:47 PM UTC-5, djandus wrote:

Given I've already made some pretty useful changes, and I realize that this changes quickly, I'm going to keep a running romlist here:

http://jandew.ersoft.org/download/lojban/pokered/

Feel free to grab the most recent version any time you like.

I've got a more updated version with corrections {pe la lindar .e la selpa'i .i ki'esai}

If you check out the above link, I threw the usual suspects: a readme and a changelog. The former shouldn't tell you anything new, but will probably come in handy later if somepony new joins the project. The latter is so that I can stop spamming this thread every time I make a set of changes, and instead spam when the changes are really important :) such as the addition of a readme and a changelog.

There's a couple bugs still on my todo list. Specifically, I'm hoping I can make that one title bar say "cmene" in full. Otherwise, "me'e". The other bug is that I have now made it so that the player's default name options are in lojban, but the list of what those names actually are is still dereferenced. (e.g., you choose "xunre" and it calls you "RED")

Oh, and I still haven't changed {barli'a} to {cliva}. But I will.

(If I forgot something, you should probably bug me about it.)

I'd also like to mention that {.ipkatcu} is my favorite pokemon name so far. I don't know why, but I find that name hilariously awesome. So much fun to say, especially in various voices! (Oh, doi la selpa'i, that is a proper fu'ivla, right? You put it in the cmevla column. I'll be excited when we can get rid of that column.)

mu'o mi'e djos.

[selpa'i]

Am 18.07.2012 08:50, schrieb djandus:

I'd also like to mention that {.ipkatcu} is my favorite pokemon name so far. I don't know why, but I find that name hilariously awesome. So much fun to say, especially in various voices! (Oh, doi la selpa'i, that is a proper fu'ivla, right? You put it in the cmevla column. I'll be excited when we can get rid of that column.)

Glad you like it. I meant to put it into the brivla column. And yes, it's a valid fu'ivla.

Am 18.07.2012 01:42, schrieb djandus:

On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:02:14 PM UTC-5, selpa'i wrote:

A skilled Lojbanist has to know that tsi = tsiju.

I completely agree. The issue is that I want unskilled lojbanists to enjoy the game. Again, think of Pokémon originally. A game for kids. Unskilled English speakers could follow it easily. I discussed this with Lindar last night, and he mentioned how the Japanese version had very little kanji. Same reason. Sure, a skilled Japanese reader should be able to read all kanji all the time quickly, but that's just not the point of making an enjoyable game.

It's very much like in English, where the name reminds you of an actual English word (Mankey > Monkey). 

That's what the fu'ivla are like, sure. But the lojban should be explicit.

e.g. {jirnyrespa} "Horn Reptile" for something like Nidoking (this is just an example)

I'm entirely okay with this. That means (gasp!) that playing a game helped you know a word in the real world.

:) I get your point. I guess I just like the idea of having specific words just for Pokemon. But of course your way might help to teach some rafsi or lujvo. Again, I would like to hear what other people think.

If I were to make a lujvo for Nidoking, it would probably involve looking at this and picking an interpretation.

I did just that, but using a different source. I arrived at a different translation though :) Would it be a problem if we had a seperate column for fu'ivla name suggestions?

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

[la .lindar.]

Is this still in progress?

Bump for still interested.

[la .lindar.]

Found an error:

... nu zabna capkylitru ...

[djandus]

This is still in progress. I spent the past 4-5 days trying to get my car fixed out of town, and getting little sleep in the process. Just got back, and now have to play catch up with about 5 projects, this included.

I'll take a look at the error later. Also, last week selpa'i brought a bug to my attention that I fixed with a quiet rom release.

http://jandew.ersoft.org/download/lojban/pokered/

[djandus]

New version is up: http://jandew.ersoft.org/download/lojban/pokered/

I put a lot of effort into making the lojban translation more thorough -- from the New Game menu to the Name Creator, it should be complete. Some of the translated Pallet Town text is not properly implemented yet, and some of the text is actually stored it a different spot, so it wasn't grouped on the wiki. I'll be working on solving those issues soon.

Also, anything that's newly translated and not on the wiki is my fault, and will probably be corrected by selpa'i/lindar soon on the wiki.

enjoy!

[Robin Lee Powell]

I thought you guys were still working on the species types names!
You've done a *whole game*?

Like, if I emulate this I've got a whole (JC)RPG in which I'll see
Lojban but little or no English?

(Sorry, Ted, but Zelda just doesn't have enough text to be as
impressive, and besides, I'd played Zelda, but not Pokemon
anything).

That's really cool!

Can you suggest an emulator for me to try this out?

-Robin

[selpa'i]

We have thus far translated the intro and almost all the text that
appears in the first town. There is still lots left to be translated,
including most Pokedex entries, item names, and attacks. If more people
were helping out, it would advance faster. (li'a)

If you want to test the game, you can download VisualBoyAdvance, and
download the rom from the link above. But you might want to wait until
it's finished :P

I'm glad to see you excited about this. I hope others are too, maybe
enough so that they decide to help us. If you are not at all interested
in Pokemon, there are still many texts in the game that don't directly
talk about Pokemon. Either way, I believe it would be great PR to have a
complete, working Lojban game, so translating this does accomplish more
than just being able to play it, it will reel in new people by showing
them that Lojban is a working language that people actually use. (.a'o)

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

--

pilno zo le xu .i lo dei bangu cu se cmene zo lojbo .e nai zo lejbo

[djandus]

On Tuesday, August 7, 2012 6:52:17 PM UTC-5, Robin Powell wrote:

That's really cool!

That's why we're working on it! Right now, there's only about half of the Pallet Town Text. But we want to get the whole game translated. 

Can you suggest an emulator for me to try this out?

VBA / Visual Colt Advance is my recommendation.

Their site: http://vba.ngemu.com/

My site: http://jandew.ersoft.org/download/lojban/pokered/

[Paul Predkiewicz]

sure thing it would be great to have a game in lojban. but what about the licensing/copyright? i can almost smell a lawsuit coming around the corner...

i know nearly nothing about american copyrightlaw, but am almost certain that in europe, or at the very least here in germany all this would be illegal.

2012/8/8 selpa'i <sel...@gmx.de>

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[Joe Anderson]

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:08 AM, Paul Predkiewicz <paul.pre...@gmail.com> wrote:

sure thing it would be great to have a game in lojban. but what about the licensing/copyright? i can almost smell a lawsuit coming around the corner...

It's very true that the ROM hacking is considered illegal to some degree, but legality is also defined by execution. Generally, ROM hacks of old games are not pursued by lawsuits, as the game makers no longer make much money off the systems and cartridges, if any. (Generally, charges are pressed if someone is making money selling hacked or copied cartridges, however.)

Also, in many media, it is sometimes considered acceptable to fan translate a product before the official release comes out, so long as the public distribution network is shut down when the official release comes out.

Lastly, most of the companies/countries that would consider the ROM hacking illegal would more importantly consider the existence of the ROM illegal. Google "Game Boy ROM" to see how many sites freely distribute ROMs without issue. I doubt lojban.org would be a prime target for sticklers.

It's basically one of those things that would be a problem if it was a current system, a current game, translated into an officially released language, and selling it for money on a popular website.

[Jonathan Jones]

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 7:04 AM, djandus <jan...@gmail.com> wrote:

Can you suggest an emulator for me to try this out?

VBA / Visual Colt Advance is my recommendation.

Their site: http://vba.ngemu.com/

I recommend bsnes, which plays roms for Nintendo, Super Nintendo, Game Boy, Game Boy Color, Game Boy Advance, Nintendo DS, Super Game Boy, BS-X Satellaview, and Sufami Turbo, and is the only emulator that runs every game perfectly.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

[Robin Lee Powell]

On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 08:35:08AM -0500, Joe Anderson wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:08 AM, Paul Predkiewicz
> <paul.pre...@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> > sure thing it would be great to have a game in lojban. but what
> > about the licensing/copyright? i can almost smell a lawsuit
> > coming around the corner...
> >
>
> It's very true that the ROM hacking is considered illegal to some
> degree, but legality is also defined by execution. Generally, ROM
> hacks of old games are not pursued by lawsuits, as the game makers
> no longer make much money off the systems and cartridges, if any.

> (Generally, charges *are* pressed if someone is making money

> selling hacked or copied cartridges, however.)
>
> Also, in many media, it is sometimes considered acceptable to fan
> translate a product before the official release comes out, so long
> as the public distribution network is shut down when the official
> release comes out.
>
> Lastly, most of the companies/countries that would consider the
> ROM hacking illegal would more importantly consider the existence
> of the ROM illegal. Google "Game Boy ROM" to see how many sites
> freely distribute ROMs without issue. I doubt lojban.org would be
> a prime target for sticklers.
>
> It's basically one of those things that would be a problem if it
> was a current system, a current game, translated into an
> officially released language, and selling it for money on a
> popular website.

In other words, it's entirely illegal but no-one is likely to hunt
you down for it.

It does, however, mean that the LLG will never officially promote
this project, and stuff like that.

-Robin

--
http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
.i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i danfu lu na go'i li'u .e
lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e
lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mamta be do cu sofybakni li'u

[djandus]

I recommend bsnes, which plays roms for Nintendo, Super Nintendo, Game Colt, Game Colt Color, Game Colt Advance, Nintendo DS, Super Game Colt, BS-X Satellaview, and Sufami Turbo, and is the only emulator that runs every game perfectly.

Cool, I added it to the README. I'll have to look into trying that one later on various ROMs. For my pokemon ROM on my system, VBA is running more effectively, but that's probably due to slight configuration issues.

[Jonathan Jones]

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 7:05 PM, djandus <jan...@gmail.com> wrote:

I recommend bsnes, which plays roms for Nintendo, Super Nintendo, Game Colt, Game Colt Color, Game Colt Advance, Nintendo DS, Super Game Colt, BS-X Satellaview, and Sufami Turbo, and is the only emulator that runs every game perfectly.

Cool, I added it to the README. I'll have to look into trying that one later on various ROMs. For my pokemon ROM on my system, VBA is running more effectively, but that's probably due to slight configuration issues.

If you got the 64 bit version and are having speed issues, use the 32 bit version instead. One of the costs of high accuracy is high hardware requirements, the 32 bit version is built with low- and mid-end PC's in mind.
 

mu'o mi'e djos

[Jonathan Jones]

Also, why did you change "Boy" {nanla} to"Colt" {nanla xirma}?

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 7:05 PM, djandus <jan...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[.arpis.]

I'm pretty sure that djandus is using ponify: http://pterocorn.blogspot.com/2011/10/ponify.html

mu'o mi'e .arpis.

[Jonathan Jones]

Oh. Ew. I don't understand how anyone could like that show- including the women it was made for. (They were girls at the time, but it's been so long they're adults now.)

[.arpis.]

The new incarnation is much better (although the old one has similar campy appeal as "Smurfs"). It has compelling, well written characters, good storylines (dealing with serious issues), and pretty (albeit simplistic) animation. It's still a kids show, and it's still not as good as Avatar: The Last Airbender, but it's better done than a lot of programming aimed at adults (in case you can't tell, I'm a fan).

[Jonathan Jones]

Speaking of Avatar, have you seen it's sequel? Pretty good show, IMO. I still don't know why Nick allowed the worst director in human history to brutalize the movie adaptation.

[la .lindar.]

Nick brutalised it, not the director. There's about three hours of that film on the cutting room floor.

It was a shit film, but give the man some credit. He made a fucking great film that was never shown.

Also, MLP:FiM is a reasonably good show with a good voice cast, good writing, and periodic musical numbers that are very fun. It's not crap like the previous incarnations. The executive producer is married to the person that created Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends and similarly awesome cartoons, so they share a lot of inspirations. It's not for everybody, but like dubstep and Justin Beiber, it's popular for a reason.

It's okay to not like things, but don't be a dick about it. =D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0la5DBtOVNI

Now back to the point, are any of you going to help translate this, or is it just me and sepa'i helping out?

[Jonathan Jones]

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 11:21 PM, la .lindar. <lindar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Nick brutalised it, not the director. There's about three hours of that film on the cutting room floor.

It was a shit film, but give the man some credit. He made a fucking great film that was never shown.

Based on my experience of his works before and after that one, I have to disagree.

I don't know who to blame for the actors never learning how to pronounce their own /names/ correctly, but I know who to blame for them getting their personalities completely wrong: Shamalan.
 

Also, MLP:FiM is a reasonably good show with a good voice cast, good writing, and periodic musical numbers that are very fun. It's not crap like the previous incarnations. The executive producer is married to the person that created Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends and similarly awesome cartoons, so they share a lot of inspirations. It's not for everybody, but like dubstep and Justin Beiber, it's popular for a reason.

It's okay to not like things, but don't be a dick about it. =D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0la5DBtOVNI

Now back to the point, are any of you going to help translate this, or is it just me and sepa'i helping out?

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[Jonathan Jones]

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 11:21 PM, la .lindar. <lindar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Now back to the point, are any of you going to help translate this, or is it just me and sepa'i helping out?

Oh, no. I watch the topic out of a vague interest in it's Lojbanity, but I have absolutely no interest what-so-ever in Pokèmon, never have, so I won't be participating.

[Robin Lee Powell]

On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 10:21:44PM -0700, la .lindar. wrote:
>
> Now back to the point, are any of you going to help translate
> this, or is it just me and sepa'i helping out?

Certainly not me, but I can play it and give feedback if that'll be
helpful, bearing in mind that I've almost no pokemon experience.

[Paul Predkiewicz]

as i am just 10% through all gismus and possibly less than 1% through all cmavo (numbers and attitudinals) on memrisei don't think i would be a big help. and even though i never was interested in pokemon, i consider this an interesting and fun way to learn lojban. a bit more fun then trying to read you guy's lojban emails ^^

2012/8/9 Robin Lee Powell <rlpo...@digitalkingdom.org>

[Joe Anderson]

coi

daskyda'u has already been suggested for the out-of-game discussion, but the fictional {pokma} and pok- rafsi are being used in-game to save character space and make it feel like pokemon are a more natural part of in-game history.

Currently, item and attack names could use assistance if you're interested in helping out: http://www.lojban.org/tiki/selci%27a+sera%27a+lai+pokemon.

Feel free to directly add to the wiki; I'll review all the changes.

Also, doi rodo, this project is still moving forward. I finished writing my own disassembler, but the past week was the week freshman show up at Rice, so I had a lot of other duties. My objective during school is to be making enough progress every two weeks to warrant submitting a new ROM, sometimes weekly.

ki'e co'o