By the way, this might be out of the topic, but which software did you
use to create this ? Are there some other instances of the same kind
of software somewhere else ? Even if not about lojban ??
Thanks !
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I think is very neat! You collected a lot of information about
jbogugde that would be very nice to have all together in a single
story.
Had you already decided for an order of topics? I'm still in doubt
which argument to introduce first. Starting from the alphabeth seems
too boring, jumping directly into bridi (as the Wave lessons) seems
too big of a step.
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Why would we reject people?
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-- .i su'o da ro roi me zo'e moi
I put the demo at http://cosmicray.co.uk/vncanvas_0.1.4/demo_vn.html for trying out on iOS but the UI doesn't appear to bind any click events, only mouse, though I'm sure that's easily fixed. Works well in desktop browsers. Overall it looks OK to me, opinions?
kozmikreis
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Static. We're just doing frames. We may do -some- animation (like camera movements [panning?] and some small motions) later on.
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It's not his artwork. As he said, he used a program called ComiPo, which did all the drawing for him.
to pu benji ti fo lo mi me la.android. samcku toi
mu'o mi'e.aionys.
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There are other options though. Kozmikreis example is great in using
3d models (not sure if you used Daz Studio or Poser) and those can be
customized. This is a good example
http://inhermajestysservice.thecomicseries.com .
I've seen others using models from Miku Miku Dance or Second Life but
much less satisfactory results (imho).
One might even use something more abstract as "Strip Generator"
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/stripgenerator/strip/57/84/06/00/00/full.png).
I already checked with them and they are fine with redistribtion of
the images outside their site as long is not commercial).
If I can help with the startup on using ComiPo I'll be happy to, but
maybe it would be better to wait for the ability to import 3D models
(which the Japanese version already has) to see if we can make some
more original artwork.
remod
I can draw, several people can draw, but I want something that is drawn well. remod's artwork looks good, irrespective of the methods by which it came about.
Do you have a positive contribution to add? Stating the obvious is… Obvious.
remod: I didn't create that demo, that was by the person who wrote the graphic novel engine, and it appears they in turn "borrowed" the imagery from games.kozmikreisOn 4 Feb 2012, at 09:02, Jonathan Jones wrote:Or, alternatively, we can find someone who can, you know, draw.
On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 1:32 AM, Remo Dentato <rden...@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, as ayonis said it's very hard to make distinctive characters
with ComiPo (it's its greatest weakness) and I'm really working hard
to make the comics look passable.
There are other options though. Kozmikreis example is great in using
3d models (not sure if you used Daz Studio or Poser) and those can be
customized. This is a good example
http://inhermajestysservice.thecomicseries.com .
I've seen others using models from Miku Miku Dance or Second Life but
much less satisfactory results (imho).
One might even use something more abstract as "Strip Generator"
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/stripgenerator/strip/57/84/06/00/00/full.png).
I already checked with them and they are fine with redistribtion of
the images outside their site as long is not commercial).
If I can help with the startup on using ComiPo I'll be happy to, but
maybe it would be better to wait for the ability to import 3D models
(which the Japanese version already has) to see if we can make some
more original artwork.
remod
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> remod: I didn't create that demo, that was by the person who wrote the
> graphic novel engine, and it appears they in turn "borrowed" the imagery
> from games.
I see. That's common to use 3D games (like I do with SL).
If you can draw, why don't you try to sketch a couple of characters?
Maybe other will be able to help too.
Backgrounds could still be taken from other sources but characters
will give an unique look to the work.
On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 2:22 AM, kozmikreis <kozmi...@lojban.org.uk> wrote:I can draw, several people can draw, but I want something that is drawn well. remod's artwork looks good, irrespective of the methods by which it came about.
That's an invalid statement. It isn't remod's artwork. In order for it to be his, it would have to have been created by him. It wasn't. All of the artwork was created by other people, remod merely paid for the permission to use it. His work was putting the parts together.
Do you have a positive contribution to add? Stating the obvious is… Obvious.
Obviously. :)
Let's see.... something positive.... Okay, how about this. www.reallifecomics.com is a webcomic done by someone who professes no artistic talent. It's made using SVG images put together into a comic, and entirely done in Photoshop. (Or Paintshop, I can't remember exactly, but it's an Adobe program- whichever one The gIMP is more like). In my own opinion, the comic's look is "good".
It wouldn't be hard for us to do something similar.
The free option that is closest to Illustrator is Inkscape, it uses
SVG as its native format.
remod
Not sure what's your problem with this, ayonis.
Maybe I gave the impression that I had a software doing all the work
for me, but if you give a try to ComiPo (there's a trial version)
you'll see that it's not exactly this way.
For example, I'm not using stock backgrounds (the ones that come with
the software) instead, for each panel I took one or more snapshots in
SL from the angle I imagined the panel to be drawn. Then I process
them in Gimp to make them match the tone of the characters.
Characters have been customized to the extent that ComiPo allows it
(which is not much, alas) and they need to be placed correctly to
match the perspective of the snapshots taken in SL.
You might also have noticed that the characters are not just placed in
front of the background (as it often happens with this type of comics)
but they are "embedded" into it, meaning that once the character is
placed in the right position I have to export separate layers and make
the "front" part emerge from the background.
Also the lettering is done in Inkscape because the ComiPo support for
lettering is very poor.
I claim no artristry, but if I gave the impression that I have a way
to instruct the computer to make comics on my behalf, that's not the
case. I just wanted to create something looking decent, I think the
process I've devised gives me the results I was looking for.
remod
Would you be willing to have a try at creating a few panels this way?
kozmikreis
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remod
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I suggest "la .kampacn.". Main reason is, it works better when she gives her
family names: "mi'e la .kampacn.daicom.bo'erod." (of course those are
fulanics, not her real names). Secondary reason is, it allows for a joke on
the name: "Yes it sounds like Compassion, but it means Hope."
> As for who's on the staff, the list on the root doc goes back to the now
> dusty beginnings of the project and is out of date. The project has
> changed format to that of a semi-interactive graphic novel for now - far
> less work will be required to create it but we still need help chiefly
> with:
>
> * Character artwork
> * Background artwork
> * Incidental art
> * A lesson plan, probably bite-sized conversational lessons drawn from a
> hacked up version of this:
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RozVcLwrmIv3eJlcYoryqsK9vEJap4ZOGbxArQ
> n-u9k/edit?authkey=COPUsZYH&hl=en_US
I'd be interested in making bite-size lessons. Also I have some skill in POV-
Ray. Would you be interested in, say, a panorama of the inside of the space
station? Or a view of its outside?
Pierre
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I like the name suggestion, good word play, though the joke is biased to English speakers.
Regarding the lessons, superb, I can work with you to ensure the story fits to the lessons too.
As for POV-Ray and the space station, yes please on both counts! The space station is the main stage for future episodes, so I may ask for many more views of it from different standpoints. Depending on the visual style we settle on there may be some manual post-processing involved by myself or others but I'd love to see some renders of it ASAP. Are you happy to be the chief station architect as before?
kozmikreis
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Of course some other names could be jokes in Spanish or Russian...
> Regarding the lessons, superb, I can work with you to ensure the story fits
> to the lessons too.
Sounds good. I have some experience teaching English informally to a
foreigner; this will be similar. He asks me something like "�Qu� es la
diferencia entre malo y cama?", which makes no sense until I figure out he's
asking how to pronounce the difference between two English words whose
translations he gave. The kids probably won't be delving deep into formal
grammar, but manipulating example sentences that are relevant to their world.
> As for POV-Ray and the space station, yes please on both counts! The space
> station is the main stage for future episodes, so I may ask for many more
> views of it from different standpoints. Depending on the visual style we
> settle on there may be some manual post-processing involved by myself or
> others but I'd love to see some renders of it ASAP. Are you happy to be
> the chief station architect as before?
Of course!
Pierre
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On Monday, February 06, 2012 05:50:02 Paul wrote:Of course some other names could be jokes in Spanish or Russian...
> Hi Pierre,
>
> I like the name suggestion, good word play, though the joke is biased to
> English speakers.
> On Monday, February 06, 2012 05:50:02 Paul wrote:
>> Hi Pierre,
>>
>> I like the name suggestion, good word play, though the joke is biased to
>> English speakers.
>
> Of course some other names could be jokes in Spanish or Russian…
For this project let's make it a guiding principle, it'll be like a hidden Easter egg for the kids that realise it :-)
>> Regarding the lessons, superb, I can work with you to ensure the story fits
>> to the lessons too.
>
> Sounds good. I have some experience teaching English informally to a
> foreigner; this will be similar. He asks me something like "¿Qué es la
> diferencia entre malo y cama?", which makes no sense until I figure out he's
> asking how to pronounce the difference between two English words whose
> translations he gave. The kids probably won't be delving deep into formal
> grammar, but manipulating example sentences that are relevant to their world.
Good stuff. I'm wondering if we should also utilise the graphic novel engine's ability to include interactive parts like multiple choice pop quizzes, would they be a boon or a burden?
>> Are you happy to be
>> the chief station architect as before?
>
> Of course!
Welcome back on board! Everyone: if anyone has any architectural questions or suggestions, as far as I'm concerned .pier. has final veto. I'm going to do my best not to impose my storyline's needs onto his decisions this time around :-)
kozmikreis
We need fewer ideas and more artists. We need rigging, models, and concept art. If you need direction, please talk to kozmikreis and he will update you on what has been done in concept previously and what we want. All other suggestions will be met with PR-esque non-answers or vague dismissals. Thank you!
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* Credit for their work, and a link.
* A talking point in their portfolio.
* Multilingual exposure.
* Better sleep at night knowing they've done good in the world :-)
The work required is not all that intense - we will be wanting images of characters emoting and in some differing postures, angles and attire, but they only get overlaid on the backgrounds at runtime and are re-used.
Thanks,
kozmikreis
Pierre is architecting the fictional space station setting that the kids' comic and probably other works in the future will use. Now is your chance to nab a plot of virtual land and make a lasting impression!
What he needs is 12-17 (of which he already has 2) different designs for neighbourhoods about 500 metres square. The two he has already are a suburban subdivision of single-family homes and a group of four large shabonos which may be replaced by smaller shabonos. The different designs can be arranged haphazardly in the residential areas.
Pierre is maintaining a written description and table layout of the space station as well as a DXF file of the actual design. He can guide you on how to submit your masterpiece for inclusion.
kozmikreis
In case you've never heard of it: a shabono (which I spell "tcabono" in
Lojban, same place structure as "zdani") is a round multifamily dwelling
consisting of two walls, each almost a semicircle of the same circle, and a
sloping roof which is wide enough to cover one room. There are two entrances,
diametrically opposed. The courtyard may be used for keeping chickens,
bicycles, or whatnot. It's a Yąnomamö word. People who live in shabonos have
their lives open to neighbors and probably don't expect robberies to happen.
I'd like the neighborhoods to reflect architectures of diverse cultures around
the world. Some architectures (such as nomad's tents) make no sense in the
space station, but whatever does make sense is welcome.
> Pierre is maintaining a written description and table layout of the space
> station as well as a DXF file of the actual design. He can guide you on
> how to submit your masterpiece for inclusion.
The written description is in the Google Doc "Layout of Space Station", which
you can get to by following a link from the root doc. The neighborhood plans
are in a DXF file which I drew in Qcad. I also have Intellicad on a Windows box
for my (nearly zero at this time) job, but didn't when I started drawing the
space station map. Expect hiccups as we work out how to put the neighborhoods
together.
Pierre
--
When a barnacle settles down, its brain disintegrates.
Já não percebe nada, já não percebe nada.
mi'e cntr
Additionally, most people who're going to read this are adults --
while they might read the game to help with their Lojban learning,
wouldn't it be better to make something that has an engaging plot and
story? Something that would really *motivate* them to continue
reading, to see what happens next -- and if you want to see what
happens next, you have to learn Lojban. That seems like a better way
of going about things, to me.
kozmikreis
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kozmikreis
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I absolutely welcome a better idea for a premise. At this point my only requirement is that we start with very simple grammar.
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Those are absolutely brilliant! I liked the second more than the first.
Guy and Kampacn go to the zoo. They see an enclosure labeled "smani", another
labeled "cinfo", and one labeled "cionmau". Guy looks at his word list and
doesn't find "cionmau". Kampacn explains that it's a Chinese fu'ivla, and that
it's also called "latcribe", which is the translation.
The problem with this is that a zoo with big animals is implausible in a space
habitat of that size. Maybe they could see lo .arxokuna instead (also called
lumge'u). If there is a zoo, it's more likely in one of the agricultural
strips, rather than the urban strip. There may be room for lo kixsmani ja
cinfysmani in the station.
They meet a man on the street. Guy, putting together some phrases he's
learned, greets him with "coi mi'e .gais. doi ma?". The man answers "mi'e
.miatav." Guy doesn't understand, as he's never heard of such a name before,
and isn't used to his accent. Kampacn helps out, and Guy finally gets the name
right.
This is based on an incident in my life. I was visiting Portugal with a church
group, and someone stopped by. I asked him "C�mo se chama voc�?". He answered
"Delfim", but I didn't recognize that as a name, and with his missing teeth I
wasn't sure I heard him right. Our hostess talked with him and got his name
right.
Pierre
--
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Any ideas? Even a verbal/numerical description would be a good start. If the
description is good enough, I can draw it and send it back to you for
comments.
Each neighborhood has access to a road (for bikes) and a canal (for boats,
which are used to transport bigger things). If the last digit of its address
(in octal) is 0 or 7, the canal ends at the corner and there are roads on two
sides; if the last digit is 4 or 5, the road ends at the corner and there are
canals (with the obligatory fillet) on two sides.
Pierre
--
I believe in Yellow when I'm in Sweden and in Black when I'm in Wales.
On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 11:58 AM, Pierre Abbat <ph...@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
Or Arabic, or Japanese, or Jewish, or Afrikaans....Of course some other names could be jokes in Spanish or Russian...
kozmikreis
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No, no, no, the plot for the *Kids'* show is pretty much all sweetness and light. Honest :-)The darker story arcs are intended for mature audiences only, and there will be plenty of positivity to counterbalance and ultimately overcome dark forces.We must always bear in mind that our "community" will be judged by things like our works of fiction, so yes, love and tolerance ftw!
kozmikreis
--Sent from my iPhone
Rejection, war, taking over the world.. those things don't strike me as very positive and certainly aren't things I'd want to be associated with.
Why is it that every story needs war in it? It's not as if positive topics were boring, you know?
I always thought of the Lojban community as being very friendly and welcoming, but all this just sounds very negative, not to mention you seem to want this to be for children. I don't see why we should expose children to war, fighting, rebellions, hatred, etc. Instead, why not focus on ... Love and Tolerance?
Am 02.02.2012 10:50, schrieb CosmicRay:More seriously, what would be done with criminally insane people, or evil infiltrators hell bent on exposing the existence of the space station? (R/)ejection may be the only solution.
kozmikreis
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Maybe for speaking Esperanto, loudly, in a cinema.
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And I need someone to help me lay out the neighborhoods. I don't know enough
about neighborhood layout in various cultures to do that.
I have a POV-Ray model of the habitat and will be adding the major streets and
canals soon (I have some programming work to do for someone).
Okay, here's the story:kozmikreis seems to have disappeared. I need a script writer / editor to help me turn nothing into something.The rest of the project is handled. If you happen to live in the Los Angeles area or know somebody in the Los Angeles area, please contact me directly as I could use some meatspace assistance. For all those still invested in the kids show, please keep up the good work. The project I'm starting in its place is something to get a crew started. Once we have staffing and have generated interest the kids show will be a lot more likely to happen. Unfortunately, that project requires a lot more heart and staffing than what we have available, so I'm not going to start it until I can give it the full attention it deserves. In the mean time, I have a fantastic treat waiting for everybody that's very soon to hit production.
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