iOS/Android app?

[kalsa]

coi

is there any talk of making a lojbanic/lojban beginners ipod app? apps like flashcardlet are good for studying words, but i was thinking maybe a more lojban specific app would help for people who are already wanting to learn, getting to  look at it on the go, or maybe to hear spoken lojban, or maybe just to make it more accessible to a wider variety of people. Just a thought. 

co'o

[kozmikreis]

[repost, original seems to have been lost to the aether]

I've got an Apple iOS Developer account and would be happy to have a hand in writing a Lojban app for iOS (and Android if I can get the damn SDK and toolset stable), it's just I haven't thought of an app idea that has anything better to it than those that already exist.

My dev language of choice would probably be the JavaScript variant from Appcelerator, not that it's anything amazing, but it can compile to multiple platforms and takes away some of the suckage of Objective C.

One idea I had was perhaps a meet-up app for conlangers in general, whereby you tick the list of languages you speak or are learning to speak and perhaps your level of proficiency, and let it run in the background occasionally checking your location in to a central server.  When someone else with a matching conlang interest is nearby the phone can alert you so you can meet up and say coi.  Might be good for finding people to practice with?

kozmikreis

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/x4FPR7wgSmEJ.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.

[aryrain laubels]

I have written a Lojban Dictionary in pure Objective C, I am currently waiting for approval. I finished it a week or so ago but posted it today. But some other applications would be interesting.

[kozmikreis]

I look forward to trying that out, please let us know when it's available.  It'll be good when there's finally a Lojban-specific app in the iTunes Store :-)

Regarding my conlanger meet-up app idea, I retain no rights to the idea should you or anyone else wants to implement it either solo or as a collaboration.

On a slightly related note, there's now a free iBooks Author app in the Mac App Store for authoring rich content books for iPad consumption.  It looks ideal for creating and sharing educational textbooks.  The CLL as an iBook would be a good place to start, once the latest changes to it have been completed - thoughts anyone?

kozmikreis

[Joshua Proehl]

I was just looking into the idea of creating a CLL iBook as well!
The problem that I see is that iBooks Author doesn't appear to play very nicely with the idea of streaming data in from other files. Which means that it's not really possible to script "convert the source files into an iBook", but rather each change made to the source files would have to be manually made to the iBook as well. Which is going to rapidly become painful. Further looking into is required however, as it would be a truly incredible platform to use.

----
Josh
_____________________
Instead of our drab slogging forth and back to the fishing boats, there's a reason to life! We can lift ourselves out of ignorance, we can find ourselves as creatures of excellence and intelligence and skill. We can be free! We can learn to fly!

— Richard Bach, 'Jonathan Livingston Seagull,' 1970.

[CosmicRay]

Those were very much my thoughts too - that porting a regularly updated open source formatted book into a proprietary format was going to be awfully tough to keep up with.  However, unlike apps, I think iBooks are static once published.  Authors don't push out a v1.x update after the fact.  With this in mind it's probably still worth forking the next stable CLL major version and porting it, perhaps even embedding an errata section by use of a web view that points back to the github repo in case of any major boo-boos.

kozmikreis

[Aaron Hawryluk]

Or, if there's an html version in existence, it could just be ported to .epub with Calibre...

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S II X.

[kozmikreis]

That is true, but is missing the point of the additional richness the proprietary iBook format allows for such as interactive multiple-choice questions, audio clips, video clips, and other learning aids that might be attractive in an enhanced version of the CLL :-)

kozmikreis

[Jonathan Jones]

Not to mention the proprietary nature of the format that automatically excludes anyone without an iPad, iPod Touch, or iPhone.

mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

[kozmikreis]

Extending your line of reasoning, should we immediately cease distributing hard copies of the CLL because the format isn't compatible with e-readers? :-p

Yes the iBook format is only compatible with a limited selection of devices, does that somehow invalidate taking advantage of the format in addition to the plethora of open formats the new CLL can be transformed into?

kozmikreis

[Daniel Brockman]

What he said

[Jonathan Jones]

That analogy doesn't work. Hard-copy isn't a format, is a presentation medium.

.epub is a format, as is .pdf. .html, .doc, .odf, etc. An e-reader is a presentation medium, as is a desktop, laptop, netbook, tablet, etc.

And even if we were to allow that a traditional book is both a format /and/ a presentation medium (which I don't), scanners have existed for years, and are perfectly capable of being used to transfer a book's contents to any kind of other medium's format, usually with no loss of information during the process.

Is there /any/ other format to which iBooks are capable of being transferred to? Can you name one format that is not only available to Apple devices to which an iBook can be converted?

I'm against proprietary formats in general. I honestly don't care what "wonderful" features the format may provide. There's is no way I'm buying a $800 device just to be able to access, literally, /one/ thing I couldn't otherwise. Especially since I already have a tablet, a smartphone, a laptop, and a desktop.

The point is, limiting distribution to noly those who have "X", means that any one who doesn't is automatically excluded. Especially for a language, /any/ kind of exclusion of people is BAD. I'm not saying I wouldn't enjoy having such features- they may be valuable, they may not, I have no opinion. What I'm saying is that whether or not such a thing exists, I /won't/ have it, because of the proprietary nature of the item. I happen to be dead set against participating in the money-vacuum that is Apple Inc. (my Android tablet has equivalent specs to the iPad 2 and is $500(!) cheaper), but my stance is the same regardless of the company behind it.

[Daniel Brockman]

dude, who’s saying you would be forbidden from converting it into another format?

On Saturday, January 28, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote:

> That analogy doesn't work. Hard-copy isn't a format, is a presentation medium.
>
> .epub is a format, as is .pdf. .html, .doc, .odf, etc. An e-reader is a presentation medium, as is a desktop, laptop, netbook, tablet, etc.
>
> And even if we were to allow that a traditional book is both a format /and/ a presentation medium (which I don't), scanners have existed for years, and are perfectly capable of being used to transfer a book's contents to any kind of other medium's format, usually with no loss of information during the process.
>
> Is there /any/ other format to which iBooks are capable of being transferred to? Can you name one format that is not only available to Apple devices to which an iBook can be converted?
>
> I'm against proprietary formats in general. I honestly don't care what "wonderful" features the format may provide. There's is no way I'm buying a $800 device just to be able to access, literally, /one/ thing I couldn't otherwise. Especially since I already have a tablet, a smartphone, a laptop, and a desktop.
>
> The point is, limiting distribution to noly those who have "X", means that any one who doesn't is automatically excluded. Especially for a language, /any/ kind of exclusion of people is BAD. I'm not saying I wouldn't enjoy having such features- they may be valuable, they may not, I have no opinion. What I'm saying is that whether or not such a thing exists, I /won't/ have it, because of the proprietary nature of the item. I happen to be dead set against participating in the money-vacuum that is Apple Inc. (my Android tablet has equivalent specs to the iPad 2 and is $500(!) cheaper), but my stance is the same regardless of the company behind it.
>

> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 1:43 AM, kozmikreis <kozmi...@lojban.org.uk (mailto:kozmi...@lojban.org.uk)> wrote:
> > Extending your line of reasoning, should we immediately cease distributing hard copies of the CLL because the format isn't compatible with e-readers? :-p
> >
> > Yes the iBook format is only compatible with a limited selection of devices, does that somehow invalidate taking advantage of the format in addition to the plethora of open formats the new CLL can be transformed into?
> >
> > kozmikreis
> >
> >
> >
> > On 28 Jan 2012, at 00:10, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> > > Not to mention the proprietary nature of the format that automatically excludes anyone without an iPad, iPod Touch, or iPhone.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 3:26 PM, kozmikreis <kozmi...@lojban.org.uk (mailto:kozmi...@lojban.org.uk)> wrote:
> > > > That is true, but is missing the point of the additional richness the proprietary iBook format allows for such as interactive multiple-choice questions, audio clips, video clips, and other learning aids that might be attractive in an enhanced version of the CLL :-)
> > > >
> > > > kozmikreis
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 27 Jan 2012, at 21:32, Aaron Hawryluk wrote:
> > > > > Or, if there's an html version in existence, it could just be ported to .epub with Calibre...
> > > > > Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S II X.

> > > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).
> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com).

> > > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.

> > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com).

> > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.

> > > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).
> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com).

> > > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.

> > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com).

> > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.

> > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com).

> > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > mu'o mi'e .aionys.
> > >
> > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> > > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.

> > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com).

> > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> >
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.

> > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com).

> > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
>
>
>
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.

> To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com).

[Daniel Brockman]

also I’m not really following the discussion, so what I just said may have been stupid and irrelevant. Sorry, I’ll try to refrain from commenting without reading in the future.

> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com (mailto:2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com)).

> > > > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).
> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com).
> > > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).

> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com (mailto:2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com)).

> > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).
> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com).
> > > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).

> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com (mailto:2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com)).

> > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > mu'o mi'e .aionys.
> > > >
> > > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> > > > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com).
> > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).

> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com (mailto:2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com)).

[Jonathan Jones]

It's not a question of "allowed". It's a question of "can".

To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.

[Daniel Brockman]

Well, personally I think the hard part would be actually creating the content. Or whatever we are talking about. Converting between formats is usually the easy part of a creative endeavor. Is all I’m saying. *quaffs another AAPL Kool-Aid*

On Saturday, January 28, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote:

> It's not a question of "allowed". It's a question of "can".
>

> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 2:46 AM, Daniel Brockman <dbro...@gmail.com (mailto:dbro...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > dude, who’s saying you would be forbidden from converting it into another format?
> >
> >
> >
> > On Saturday, January 28, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> >
> > > That analogy doesn't work. Hard-copy isn't a format, is a presentation medium.
> > >
> > > .epub is a format, as is .pdf. .html, .doc, .odf, etc. An e-reader is a presentation medium, as is a desktop, laptop, netbook, tablet, etc.
> > >
> > > And even if we were to allow that a traditional book is both a format /and/ a presentation medium (which I don't), scanners have existed for years, and are perfectly capable of being used to transfer a book's contents to any kind of other medium's format, usually with no loss of information during the process.
> > >
> > > Is there /any/ other format to which iBooks are capable of being transferred to? Can you name one format that is not only available to Apple devices to which an iBook can be converted?
> > >
> > > I'm against proprietary formats in general. I honestly don't care what "wonderful" features the format may provide. There's is no way I'm buying a $800 device just to be able to access, literally, /one/ thing I couldn't otherwise. Especially since I already have a tablet, a smartphone, a laptop, and a desktop.
> > >
> > > The point is, limiting distribution to noly those who have "X", means that any one who doesn't is automatically excluded. Especially for a language, /any/ kind of exclusion of people is BAD. I'm not saying I wouldn't enjoy having such features- they may be valuable, they may not, I have no opinion. What I'm saying is that whether or not such a thing exists, I /won't/ have it, because of the proprietary nature of the item. I happen to be dead set against participating in the money-vacuum that is Apple Inc. (my Android tablet has equivalent specs to the iPad 2 and is $500(!) cheaper), but my stance is the same regardless of the company behind it.
> > >
> > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 1:43 AM, kozmikreis <kozmi...@lojban.org.uk (mailto:kozmi...@lojban.org.uk) (mailto:kozmi...@lojban.org.uk)> wrote:
> > > > Extending your line of reasoning, should we immediately cease distributing hard copies of the CLL because the format isn't compatible with e-readers? :-p
> > > >
> > > > Yes the iBook format is only compatible with a limited selection of devices, does that somehow invalidate taking advantage of the format in addition to the plethora of open formats the new CLL can be transformed into?
> > > >
> > > > kozmikreis
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 28 Jan 2012, at 00:10, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> > > > > Not to mention the proprietary nature of the format that automatically excludes anyone without an iPad, iPod Touch, or iPhone.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 3:26 PM, kozmikreis <kozmi...@lojban.org.uk (mailto:kozmi...@lojban.org.uk) (mailto:kozmi...@lojban.org.uk)> wrote:
> > > > > > That is true, but is missing the point of the additional richness the proprietary iBook format allows for such as interactive multiple-choice questions, audio clips, video clips, and other learning aids that might be attractive in an enhanced version of the CLL :-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > kozmikreis
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 27 Jan 2012, at 21:32, Aaron Hawryluk wrote:
> > > > > > > Or, if there's an html version in existence, it could just be ported to .epub with Calibre...
> > > > > > > Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S II X.

> > > > > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com) (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).
> > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com) (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%252Buns...@googlegroups.com)).

> > > > > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.

> > > > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com) (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).
> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com) (mailto:lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com)).

> > > > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.

> > > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com) (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).
> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com) (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%252Buns...@googlegroups.com)).

> > > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.

> > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com) (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com) (mailto:lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com)).

> > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.

> > > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com) (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).
> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com) (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%252Buns...@googlegroups.com)).

> > > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > mu'o mi'e .aionys.
> > > > >
> > > > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> > > > > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.

> > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com) (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com) (mailto:lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com)).

> > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.

> > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com) (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com) (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%252Buns...@googlegroups.com)).

> > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > mu'o mi'e .aionys.
> > >
> > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> > > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
> > >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.

> > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com) (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com) (mailto:lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com)).

[kozmikreis]

This is the point I'm trying to get across, politics and pro- vs anti-proprietary arguments (however valid) aside - the suggestion to use a closed format _in_addition_ to the open formats is not an exercise in exclusivity. Far from it. I believe it's in the common interest to have the CLL available to as wide an audience as possible, and should conversion to proprietary formats _in_addition_ to the open formats be non-detrimental to the CLL's availability which clearly in this case it wouldn't be, then why not?

You make a case for not purchasing a closed-format consumption device based on its feature set. Good for you, I applaud your stance even though personally I'm (currently) an Apple fan. To answer your question, no I cannot name another format an iBook can be transferred to whether it is an Apple-exclusive format or not. As far as I know it is completely closed. I don't see the relevance of this point though. The CLL source files are, and would remain, open.

kozmikreis

> To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com.

[Daniel Brockman]

Oh, it’s not even that you’re going to create anything on the iBlah. You’re just converting the CLL into it? Haha, then that’s a no-brainer, I think.

> > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com (mailto:2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com)).

> > > > > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > > > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).
> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com).
> > > > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).

> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com (mailto:2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com)).

> > > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com).
> > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).

> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com (mailto:2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com)).

> > > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > mu'o mi'e .aionys.
> > > > >
> > > > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> > > > > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com).
> > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).

> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com (mailto:2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com)).

> > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > mu'o mi'e .aionys.
> > >
> > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> > > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
> > >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com).
> > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-b...@googlegroups.com).

[kozmikreis]

I'd be in favour of a conversion with some additions like pretty colour pictures, audio samples and multiple-choice questions. Ideally these would be added into the open version of the CLL first as static features (perhaps the audio samples could be in the form of absolute URLs to files on lojban.org) and then enlivened in the iBlah version by use of the appropriate widgets.

kozmikreis

[Jonathan Jones]

I was addressing specifically the things you were talking about /adding to/ the proposed iBook (the "interactive multiple-choice questions, audio clips, video clips, and other learning aids") that would /not/ be available in any other format.

iPads can read pdfs. The CLL can be exported to pdf (IIRC). If you're not wanting to use the "special" featuresof iBooks, there's no need to make an iBook CLL. If you are, then you're making something that will /not/ be available by any other means.

[CosmicRay]

I'd like to see an enhanced version (see my message of a few minutes ago), but preferably not at the cost of other formats losing out, we'd want to retain maximum compatibility and accessibility across all formats.

You are correct the CLL can be exported to PDF which can be read by iPads etc. The best case I can see for using the iBooks format is not so much the special features but being able to publish it to and therefore the visibility and searchability of the CLL within the iTunes and iBooks stores. This allows for the less technically adept to find and download the content as well as share bookmarks across devices and whatever else that a PDF alone doesn't.

The same should be done for other open and closed book stores in my opinion :-)

kozmikreis

[aryrain laubels]

Having read the rest of the discussion, oops.. A bit late. Btw, isn't the real problem with the iBook app the contract that you have to "accept" to post books to the app. Particularly if the LLG decides to sell the book?

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 9:00 AM, aryrain laubels <ary...@gmail.com> wrote:

FYI it is up in the app store. I don't actually own an iPhone so let me know if it works or if there is any problems:

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/lojban-dictionary/id497206602?ls=1&mt=8

[aryrain laubels]

FYI it is up in the app store. I don't actually own an iPhone so let me know if it works or if there is any problems:

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/lojban-dictionary/id497206602?ls=1&mt=8

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 10:54 PM, CosmicRay <c...@cosmicray.co.uk> wrote:

[Paul]

Wahoo!  Just installed it on iOS 5.0.1 (9A405) on an iPhone 4.

The "Lookup" and "Keyword" searches are OK (no indication what the difference is) but the "Text search" feature doesn't seem to work, and the search button being a little arrow in the main screen's title is unintuitive, other than that it's a great start and I like it, thanks :-)

kozmikreis

--

Sent from my iPhone

[aryrain laubels]

Lookup just looks for the English word or Lojban word, there is also meant to be a lujvo parser there but I don't think it's "ready" for use. (Anyone care to help me with Ragel?)

While keyword search does a search on most of the contents, it's basically an index search, it only supports and (implicitly) at the moment.

Text search is basically a simple grep on the rasfi and gismu text files, I included it as people like to search for exact phrases ect, however as I don't have an iPhone I couldn't test if there were any bundling* problems.

I wouldn't mind adding a jbovlaste and jbofi'e option to it, but those would be a simple web lookup.

I am a little worried about speed, I made the application using the "coredata" system, which is a wrapper around Sqlite, with a bit of extras which I think apple added for speed. However I think it just bloats the sql file and 

I am thinking of adding a Selma'o explorer and some other things like that but I would really like a list of descriptions for the selma'o before I do that. Also, I have said this before on g+, but the TXT format is getting really tiresome. :P I say XML with compilers to make it human readable. :P Which will allow us to put more "value add" features like examples and more gloss words.

Do you have a suggestion as to what I should use for the search button? I thought that as well but was sort of at a loss on what I could do.

* Seems it's apples name for something like the Slackware model package.

[kozmikreis]

Very quick feedback as I realised I hadn't got round to it:

Maybe a help view to explain the search types could be added, or, run all the searches by default (if you can get around any speed problems) and group the results before ordering.

For the search button, how about a button below the selector labelled "Search"?  :-p

kozmikreis

[kozmikreis]

I can't find a contract without signing up and I'm not prepared to do that just yet. What restrictive terms in particular have you found? Any claims they make for exclusive content would be a no-go for example.

kozmikreis

[Aaron Hawryluk]

Apple's iBook Author EULA specifies that any content created in iBook Author can only be distributed through the Apple App Store (regardless of conversion to pdf or other formats).
If this is a separate branch of the documentation, not intended to be exported in other formats, then no biggie).

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S II X.

[Jonathan Jones]

Hmm. I think that violates the terms of the CLL, which, if I'm not not mistaken, is under the GPL or some similar Copy-Left license.

[Aaron Hawryluk]

If it's GPL, definitely. VLC Player was pulled from the App Store
precisely because App Store terms violate the GPL, even for free
products.

[Anton Golov]

While the CLL isn't GPL as far as I can see, the copyright on it is
owned by the Logical Language Group. The relevant part of the legal
info reads:

Permission is granted to make and distribute verbatim copies of this
book, either in electronic or in printed form, provided the copyright
notice and this permission notice are preserved on all copies.

Permission is granted to copy and distribute modified versions of this
book, provided that the modifications are clearly marked as such, and
provided that the entire resulting derived work is distributed under
the terms of a permission notice identical to this one.".

Therefore, adding visuals is allowed if they are accompanied by some
disclaimer. The Apple Author EULA states that in the case of books
provided for free (on the App Store) "may distribute the Work by any
available means;''. The clause for books that are not free is far
more restrictive ("you may only distribute the Work through Apple"),
and definitely violates the CLL license.

Sources:
http://dag.github.com/cll/1/8/
http://www.geekosystem.com/apples-ibooks-eula/ (same quote in several
other articles; unfortunately, google search mostly gives news results
for this)

-jesyspa

[CosmicRay]

Ah well, that's the end of that. It may still be feasible to get it into iTunes U, assuming licensing can't be conflicting there?

kozmikreis

--
Sent from my iPhone

[CosmicRay]

"This changes everything. Again."

;-)

kozmikreis

--
Sent from my iPhone

On 3 Feb 2012, at 09:48, Anton Golov <kdes...@gmail.com> wrote:

> While the CLL isn't GPL as far as I can see, the copyright on it is
> owned by the Logical Language Group. The relevant part of the legal
> info reads:
>
> Permission is granted to make and distribute verbatim copies of this
> book, either in electronic or in printed form, provided the copyright
> notice and this permission notice are preserved on all copies.
>
> Permission is granted to copy and distribute modified versions of this
> book, provided that the modifications are clearly marked as such, and
> provided that the entire resulting derived work is distributed under
> the terms of a permission notice identical to this one.".
>
> Therefore, adding visuals is allowed if they are accompanied by some
> disclaimer. The Apple Author EULA states that in the case of books
> provided for free (on the App Store) "may distribute the Work by any
> available means;''. The clause for books that are not free is far
> more restrictive ("you may only distribute the Work through Apple"),
> and definitely violates the CLL license.
>
> Sources:
> http://dag.github.com/cll/1/8/
> http://www.geekosystem.com/apples-ibooks-eula/ (same quote in several
> other articles; unfortunately, google search mostly gives news results
> for this)
>
> -jesyspa
>

[Arran Ubels]

Kozmikreis;

Yeah I am not sure how to explain them. I don't want to run them all as it's a bit slow which is probably due to my use of "CoreData."

How would you order the data and group them?

I have changed the button from a (>) button to an actual button which says search, but I have kept it where it is, so it doesn't get covered by the keyboard. I am not sure if there is a good existing design pattern for what I have done. I am waiting for "approval."

I have also fixed the Text Search feature, and it's now capable of running on older devices which can't upgrade to iOS 4.3. (I am not too sure how far back I can go before I loose the features I am using.)

[Arran Ubels]

New version is in markets. I suggest that you create a page on the wiki where you list all the problems and suggestions with it, and next time I am free I can work my way down the list. :)

[la gleki]

On Thursday, February 23, 2012 12:35:24 AM UTC+4, aryrain laubels wrote:

New version is in markets. I suggest that you create a page on the wiki where you list all the problems and suggestions with it, and next time I am free I can work my way down the list. :)

Any links to the current version?

[Arran Ubels]

I let my Apple Developer License lapse, sorry.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 

[la gleki]

On Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:28:22 AM UTC+4, aryrain laubels wrote:

I let my Apple Developer License lapse, sorry.

peeps, so no iOS software for lojban at all? 

[tsani nicte]

I have a lojban dictionary app on my iPod touch... 

--

[Devin Prater]

I have that app too

Sent from my iPod

[la gleki]

On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 2:41:30 AM UTC+4, tsani wrote:

I have a lojban dictionary app on my iPod touch... 

link?

[Annie]

What app are you talking about?aa

Sent from my iPod

*** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind.

[Devin Prater]

The one I showed you, Annie, in 4th period one day last semester. .ui 

Sent from my iPod

[Annie]

What app did you show me? If you don't know the name, tell me what it did.

Sent from my iPod

[Arran Ubels]

This is some screenshots of the one I wrote:

http://appfinder.lisisoft.com/app/lojban-dictionary.html 

On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 9:08 AM, <cogitat...@gmail.com> wrote:

co'i ro do

I hear that the programming of such an app may be quite difficult. I understand little of computers and other such things. But a second option; and one that would help with the dispersal and promotion of our language is to create a comprehensive and possibly interactive PDF. I hear the new soft ware is much better that it was and can include sounds to be spoken to make sure pronunciation is correct. However as I say I know little of computers and it would be required for such things to be researched.

co'o ro do 

On Thursday, January 12, 2012 6:27:49 AM UTC, spitaki wrote:

coi

is there any talk of making a lojbanic/lojban beginners ipod app? apps like flashcardlet are good for studying words, but i was thinking maybe a more lojban specific app would help for people who are already wanting to learn, getting to  look at it on the go, or maybe to hear spoken lojban, or maybe just to make it more accessible to a wider variety of people. Just a thought. 

co'o

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.

[Devin Prater]

I, personally, wish some big company like Google or Apple would include Lojban as a language in their webpages or operating systems. Maybe make a Lojban TTS system too. I would really love reading/hearing the GUI in Lojban.

Devin Prater

r.d.t....@gmail.com

[Annie]

What's a GUI?

Sent from my iPod

[Devin Prater]

Graphical user interface.

Devin Prater

r.d.t....@gmail.com

[Annie]

Now, what do we blind folks want to do with _graphics?

Sent from my iPod

[Devin Prater]

We can use a GUI. Windows is a GUI. All of Apple's stuff is a GUI. All apps, unless they're through the command line, or the braille note, are GUI's. The braille note is not a GUI, neither is the book sense or any other blindness specific product, because it is all text and sound.

Devin Prater

r.d.t....@gmail.com

[Annie]

Then I must not be understanding the meaning of "graphicso" correctly if screenffeaders qualify.

Sent from my iPod

[Devin Prater]

Screen readers just try to speak the text that it can find. 

Devin Prater

r.d.t....@gmail.com

[Annie]

So, what about apps that are specificY for us? Are they  also somehow considered graphics?

Sent from my iPod

[Pierre Abbat]

On Thursday, March 28, 2013 17:33:04 Annie wrote:
> Then I must not be understanding the meaning of "graphicso" correctly if
> screenffeaders qualify. Sent from my iPod

If there were a tactile tablet and it could draw pictures and boxes and
buttons and words and you could feel the buttons and push them and the
computer did things when you pushed them, that would be a GUI. If you type on
the keyboard and the computer responds by speaking, that's not a GUI.

Pierre
--
.i toljundi do .ibabo mi'afra tu'a do
.ibabo damba do .ibabo do jinga
.icu'u la ma'atman.

[Devin Prater]

Yes, if they have any pictures or anything like that.

Devin Prater

r.d.t....@gmail.com

[Annie]

What are you talking about, pictures?

Sent from my iPod