ma xe fanva zoi gy Countless stars were twinkling in the sky gy

[la gleki]

http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/18312

[ianek]

I'd try to translate it as {ci'i tarci pu carmi bu'u lo tsani}, but I
may be very wrong. There's no simple word for twinkle, flicker or
blink.

mu'o mi'e ianek

On 24 Lis, 19:11, la gleki <gleki.is.my.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/18312

[Chris Patrick]

Do we even have a word for "alternate"? If not, perhaps a lujvo with elements from {cenba}, {rapli}, {xruti}, or {zasni}.

From there, it'd be relatively easy to say "flicker".

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[Pierre Abbat]

On Saturday, November 24, 2012 11:26:33 ianek wrote:
> I'd try to translate it as {ci'i tarci pu carmi bu'u lo tsani}, but I
> may be very wrong. There's no simple word for twinkle, flicker or
> blink.

I'd say {kliniota} for "blink", but that probably wouldn't be understood by a
non-French-speaker. A possible word for "twinkle" is {camdesku}.

The number of stars isn't infinite, it's just too many for humans to count. You
could say {ni'e bacterkancu}, but that's a bit long.

Pierre
--
When a barnacle settles down, its brain disintegrates.
Já não percebe nada, já não percebe nada.

[ianek]

It isn't infinite, but I used {ci'i} as a hyperbole. Maybe {so'iso'i}
or something would be good, but it doesn't sound very serious. BTW,
{so'e} and {so'a} are defined as 'most' and 'almost all', but it
doesn't make much sense since 1. they fit in the {so'V} sequence of
imprecise numerals and the other three do not refer to being a part of
something, 2. there are compounds {piso'e} and {piso'a} and they mean
'most of' and 'almost all of', which for me is the same.

What I mean is: the sequence is decrementing imprecise numerals:
{so'a}, {so'e}, {so'i}, {so'o}, {so'u}. But if translated according to
definitions in jbovlaste, they don't work like that: "many stars" may
mean arbitrarily many stars, while "most stars" would mean that
there's some set of stars and we're talking about a majority of them.
Completely other thing. And if we want to say that, we might as well
use {piso'e}: "most of the stars" and it would mean the same. So, as
for me, {so'e} and {so'a}, as defined in jbovlaste, are inconsistent
with the rest of this series.

I may be, and probably am very wrong about all this, but there goes my
rant. I'd like to be able to use {so'e tarci} for 'lots of stars' and
{so'a tarci} for 'uncountable stars'. Only that I'm not sure why
"decimal point lots" would then mean "most", ie. more than half. Oh
well.

mu'o mi'e ianek

[mudri]

As I see it, {so'a} and {piso'a} return multiple individuals and a single part of some whole, respectively. For example:

{so'a lo tarci} = almost all of the stars (with each star being considered individually)

{piso'a loi tarci} = almost all of the mass of all stars (all considered as a mass)

On {so'e} and {so'a} being inconsistent with the rest of the series, I kind of agree. They both make reference to some whole, whereas the other three don't. They all, however, are supposed to be relative, which may mean that all 5 refer to some implicit whole. I don't know.

[Jonathan Jones]

On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 2:53 PM, ianek <jan...@gmail.com> wrote:

It isn't infinite, but I used {ci'i} as a hyperbole. Maybe {so'iso'i}
or something would be good, but it doesn't sound very serious. BTW,
{so'e} and {so'a} are defined as 'most' and 'almost all', but it
doesn't make much sense since 1. they fit in the {so'V} sequence of
imprecise numerals and the other three do not refer to being a part of
something, 2. there are compounds {piso'e} and {piso'a} and they mean
'most of' and 'almost all of', which for me is the same.

What I mean is: the sequence is decrementing imprecise numerals:
{so'a}, {so'e}, {so'i}, {so'o}, {so'u}. But if translated according to
definitions in jbovlaste, they don't work like that: "many stars" may
mean arbitrarily many stars, while "most stars" would mean that
there's some set of stars and we're talking about a majority of them.
Completely other thing. And if we want to say that, we might as well
use {piso'e}: "most of the stars" and it would mean the same. So, as
for me, {so'e} and {so'a}, as defined in jbovlaste, are inconsistent
with the rest of this series.

I may be, and probably am very wrong about all this, but there goes my
rant. I'd like to be able to use {so'e tarci} for 'lots of stars' and
{so'a tarci} for 'uncountable stars'. Only that I'm not sure why
"decimal point lots" would then mean "most", ie. more than half. Oh
well.

It's more that the English definitions of the words are flawed:

ro > so'a > so'e > so'i > so'o > so'u > no

pa > piso'a > piso'e > piso'i >piso'o > piso'i > no

piso'e > pimu > piso'o

Because these numbers are imprecise, it's obviously not possible to give specific numeric inequalities to them beyond the above, and even then, there may be cases where two or more overlap with each other.
 

mu'o mi'e ianek

On 24 Lis, 22:12, Pierre Abbat <p...@bezitopo.org> wrote:
> On Saturday, November 24, 2012 11:26:33 ianek wrote:
> > I'd try to translate it as {ci'i tarci pu carmi bu'u lo tsani}, but I
> > may be very wrong. There's no simple word for twinkle, flicker or
> > blink.
>
> I'd say {kliniota} for "blink", but that probably wouldn't be understood by a
> non-French-speaker. A possible word for "twinkle" is {camdesku}.
>
> The number of stars isn't infinite, it's just too many for humans to count. You
> could say {ni'e bacterkancu}, but that's a bit long.
>
> Pierre
> --
> When a barnacle settles down, its brain disintegrates.
> Já não percebe nada, já não percebe nada.

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mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

[mudri]

Still, it's a bit strange that the "Pure-Lojban" definition of {so'a} is {namcu .i se zilkancu lo muljbi}. Actually, I'm a bit confused as to what that means: "a near to complete thing is the non-existent counter". And, as far as I've learnt, {zi'o} isn't a mere "imaginary" - it effectively says that the bridi is false (due to denying the existence of one of the things it was predicated on). .uanai

[Jonathan Jones]

On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 5:36 PM, mudri <jammya...@gmail.com> wrote:

Still, it's a bit strange that the "Pure-Lojban" definition of {so'a} is {namcu .i se zilkancu lo muljbi}. Actually, I'm a bit confused as to what that means: "a near to complete thing is the non-existent counter". And, as far as I've learnt, {zi'o} isn't a mere "imaginary" - it effectively says that the bridi is false (due to denying the existence of one of the things it was predicated on). .uanai

Firstly, {zilkancu} is {kancu} with the x1 removed:

kancu: x1 (agent) counts the number in set x2 to be x3 [number/count] counting [off] by units x4.

zilkancu: x1 numbers/adds up to/consists of x2 (number) counting by units x3; x1 are x2 in number.

The translation is:

{namcu .i se zilkancu lo muljbi}

"Number. A result of counting which a nearly-whole numbers."

I.e.: "This is a number which is equivalent to counting nearly all of something (whether that be nearly all the stars (mass) or nearly all of a pie (individual))."

 

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[la gleki]

May be {du'e}, not {ci'i} ?

[ianek]

Maybe, if "too many" may mean "too many to count", not "more than
somebody wants". It is highly ambiguous though.

mu'o mi'e ianek

[Michael Turniansky]

I would probably use gu'icne for "flickering" (c1=g3 cenba lo ka te gusni g2 g1kei c3 c4)

          --gejyspa

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