rafsi for "mi"

[najrut]

I just tried creating complex lujvo and found that I can't transform the simplest phrase "mi prami do" into a lujvo.

I can do that with "do prami mi" (I get "mibdonpa'i") but what about "mi" ?

[Luke Bergen]

A really handy tool when struggling with lujvo creation/deconstruction is jvozba.  Check it out: http://jwodder.freeshell.org/lojban/jvozba.cgi?tanru=mi+prami+do&vlalei=pluja

In answer to your question though, I believe that "y", when used as rafsi glue, does not count towards the "you must have two consonants back to back in the first five letters" rule.

i.e. I believe that {mibypamdoi} is an acceptable lujvo since ignoring the "y" gives the "bp" consonant cluster.  Or just to be safe you could make it {mibrpamdoi}.

On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 12:08 PM, najrut <ruler...@gmail.com> wrote:

I just tried creating complex lujvo and found that I can't transform the simplest phrase "mi prami do" into a lujvo.

I can do that with "do prami mi" (I get "mibdonpa'i") but what about "mi" ?

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[Michael Turniansky]

  A much more important question is WHY would you want to make a lujvo of "mi prami do"?  You have filled up all the argument places, so basically you don't have a brivla woth anything any more.

           --gejyspa

On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 12:08 PM, najrut <ruler...@gmail.com> wrote:

I just tried creating complex lujvo and found that I can't transform the simplest phrase "mi prami do" into a lujvo.

I can do that with "do prami mi" (I get "mibdonpa'i") but what about "mi" ?

--

[.arpis.]

{lo mibypamdoi} could be short for {mi noi ke'a prami do}.

--
mu'o mi'e .arpis.

[Michael Turniansky]

  Well, not so much, because "lo broda" means "that (or those) which can fill the x1 spot of "x1 broda" "  If the x1 space is already filled, yes, it is possible to fill it again, ("mi klama la bastn fa lo speni be mi" is possible, and is probably best construed as "mi jo'u lo speni be mi klama la bastn.")  But generally x1s of lujvo should not come pre-filled.  A predicate of a I-love-you(X) doesn't really make any sense.  OTOH, a predicate of loves-you(X) DOES, so "pamdoi" would be a much more legitimate lujvo to have.

                           --gejyspa

[.arpis.]

The predicate I-love-you(X) has unfilled modal places, though, right?

{mibypamdoi mu'i lo du'u do xendo} is perfectly sensical?

[Luke Bergen]

That seems legit.  But since there isn't an x1 it doesn't make any sense to talk about {lo mibypamdoi} since there is no x1.  So it does still kind of feel silly.  I guess I could see it being used as a playful word that a couple might make up and use from time to time as a kind of intimate inside joke or something.

[najrut]

OK, I should have checked everything through jvozba.

Some time ago I was wondering whether lojban could really imitate Amerindian one-word sentences as Wikipedia says (like zdane'ikemcmafagyso'ikemprununjelca and others)

mibypamdoi. I believe this can be translated as "You love me".

And my question is what is the rafsi for "mi" that ends with a vowel ?

For "do" we have "don" and "doi".

For "mi" we have only "mib". Why the authors of lojban were so biased ?

Why can't I say somethin like la donpamymib. but using a lujvo instead of this cmene ?

[Michael Turniansky]

   Well, there's always the option of using "zei" to create lujvo with words that have no appropriate rafsi.  That's what it's for.

             --gejyspa

                                          

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/HH8gbBC077UJ.

[MorphemeAddict]

I submit that a rafsi of {mi} is very rarely needed, and so it's only natural to have a minimal number of rafsi for it.

 

If {mi} is needed for a lujvo, then {zei} can be used.

 

stevo

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 9:51 AM, najrut <ruler...@gmail.com> wrote:

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/HH8gbBC077UJ.

[Stephen Pollei]

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 6:51 AM, najrut <ruler...@gmail.com> wrote:

> mibypamdoi. I believe this can be translated as "You love me".
> And my question is what is the rafsi for "mi" that ends with a vowel ?
> For "do" we have "don" and "doi".
> For "mi" we have only "mib". Why the authors of lojban were so biased ?
> Why can't I say somethin like la donpamymib. but using a lujvo instead of
> this cmene ?

donmibypa'i and doirmibypa'i work for {do prami mi} as { do mi prami}
means the same thing.

[Pierre Abbat]

On Tuesday 13 December 2011 12:44:23 Luke Bergen wrote:
> i.e. I believe that {mibypamdoi} is an acceptable lujvo since ignoring the
> "y" gives the "bp" consonant cluster. Or just to be safe you could make it
> {mibrpamdoi}.

"mibrpamdoi" is a type-3 fu'ivla, and as "mi" doesn't have a place structure,
I'm baffled as to what it might mean.

The main use I know of for the rafsi of "mi" and "do" is to express
grammatical person: mibma'o, donma'o, fo'arma'o, fo'erma'o (the last does not
exist in Indo-European, but there are some languages that have it).

As to why "mi" doesn't have a CVV rafsi, it's probably because the obvious one
was already taken by "minde".

Pierre
--
li fi'u vu'u fi'u fi'u du li pa