Visual mem for pinxe on Memrise.

[Jonathan Jones]

Everyone that cares, please go to http://www.memrise.com/item/191673/pinxe-x1-drinks-x2-out-of-x3/?set=simplified-gismu-2#content

and vote for which of the two pictures you like better.

Specifically, if you think the second one is a good example of lonu pinxe, vote for it.

If you think it's better as an example of lonu simxu, vote for the other one.

If the first one gets more votes than the second, I'll make the second one be the visual for simxu instead.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

[Michael Turniansky]

  Don't feel like becoming a member of memrise just to vote for something.  But the simple line drawing is better.  Too much going on in the second.   One might think is was "dating" or "sitting" or "love", or...?

            --gejyspa

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[Pierre Abbat]

On Wednesday 27 June 2012 23:21:33 Jonathan Jones wrote:
> Everyone that cares, please go to
> http://www.memrise.com/item/191673/pinxe-x1-drinks-x2-out-of-x3/?set=simpli
>fied-gismu-2#content
>
> and vote for which of the two pictures you like better.
>
> Specifically, if you think the second one is a good example of lonu pinxe,
> vote for it.
>
> If you think it's better as an example of lonu simxu, vote for the other
> one.
>
> If the first one gets more votes than the second, I'll make the second one
> be the visual for simxu instead.

I'm not a member of memrise, but here's what I think. The first is better as
an illustration of lonu pinxe. The second looks more like lonu kansa to me.
For lonu simxu, I think a drawing of two people scratching each other is
better. In the second, they are together drinking something; they're not
drinking each other.

Pierre
--
.i toljundi do .ibabo mi'afra tu'a do
.ibabo damba do .ibabo do jinga
.icu'u la ma'atman.

[Jonathan Jones]

No, it's definietely lonu simxu, not luno kansa. re prenu cu simxu lonu pinxe

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[Pierre Abbat]

On Thursday 28 June 2012 11:03:54 Jonathan Jones wrote:
> No, it's definietely lonu simxu, not luno kansa. re prenu cu simxu lonu
> pinxe

simxu: x1 (set) has members who mutually/reciprocally x2 (event [x1 should be
reflexive in 1+ sumti]). So "lu'i re prenu cu simxu lo nu pinxe", if the two
people are Alice and Bob, means that Alice drinks Bob and Bob drinks Alice.
That's not what the drawing shows. It shows Alice and Bob both drinking from
one cup.

Pierre
--
gau do li'i co'e kei do

[Jonathan Jones]

No it doesn't. It means that they are both participating in an act of drinking. lonu pinxe doesn't specify what is being drunk, and the recipricol-ness doesn't bleed into the event's internals.

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[Michael Turniansky]

   Sorry, Jonathon is correct.  kansa means for more than one agent to participate in an act.  sinxa is an act that is done by each member of the group to another member of the group.

         --gejyspa

[Lindar]

> sinxa is an act that is done by each member of the group

{sinxa} means "sign".

[Michael Turniansky]

  Yes, yes.  I meant that.    Sorry.  Just drove back four hours from a wedding that lasted 9 hours, until 330 in the morning.

               --gejyspa

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Lindar <lindar...@gmail.com> wrote:

> sinxa is an act that is done by each member of the group

{sinxa} means "sign".

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[Pierre Abbat]

On Thursday 28 June 2012 15:05:17 Michael Turniansky wrote:
> Sorry, Jonathon is correct. kansa means for more than one agent to
> participate in an act. sinxa is an act that is done by each member of the
> group to another member of the group.

Are you contradicting yourself, or just tired?

Pierre

--
Don't buy a French car in Holland. It may be a citroen.

[Álvaro Vallejo]

I vote for the first one, the line drawing, no doubt!

[Felipe Gonçalves Assis]

Doesn't it make more sense to have a relation as simxu2?
{[lu'i] lo re prenu cu simxu lo ka ce'u pinxe ce'u}
"Two people drink one another."

The reciprocity I vaguely see in the second picture is
{lo re pinxe cu simxu lo ka ce'u nelci ce'u}.

mu'o
mi'e .asiz.

[Jorge Llambías]

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com> wrote:
> No, it's definietely lonu simxu, not luno kansa. re prenu cu simxu lonu
> pinxe

ko'a kansa ko'e lo nu pinxe .i je ko'e kansa ko'a lo nu pinxe
.i se ni'i bo ko'a jo'u ko'e simxu lo la ce'u kansa ce'u lo nu pinxe
.i va'i ko'a jo'u ko'e kansi'u lo nu pinxe

.i lu ko'a jo'u ko'e simxu lo ka ce'u pinxe ce'u li'u se smuni lo du'u
ge ko'a pinxe ko'e gi ko'e pinxe ko'a

mu'o mi'e xorxes

[Michael Turniansky]

  Just tired.  Drove back four hours from a nine-hour wedding that lasted until 3:30 in the morning.  I meant to say, "Sorry, Jonathon, PIERRE is correct..." (and of course sinxa -> simxu

[Jonathan Jones]

Ah, well, not according to Jorge.

[Michael Turniansky]

  Umm... well, actually, yes, according to Jorge.  What he was saying is that they are simxu only in the sense of they are simxu be lo nu kansa.  In other words, the one is mutually (simxu) with (kansa) the other in their drinking.  And that he agrees that simxu be lo nu pinxe means they are drinking each other.  But that's quite broad.  It's hard to imagine any kansa that's not simxu lo nu kansa

                     --gejyspa

[Jonathan Jones]

Hmm. Well then, I must have misunderstood him then, and now I don't understand the reason for his insistence in the use of simxu for le lisxra cu xe fanva fo zo'oi.Ceqli.

[Michael Turniansky]

  Well, I will let him speak for himself, but I note he much prefers using kansi'u (a word he himself put into jbovlaste) over just plain kansa.  I assume in the Ceqli cartoon,  you are here referring to "mi'a kansa simxu xabju" (If there is another use of simxu on the page, I didn't spot it).  Here it is appropriate because A is living with B and B is living with A.  The x1 is a group, the members of which are living with each other.  Without "simxu", it means "we are accompanying-type-of-living", whihc might mean we are as a group living with someone ELSE.

              --gejyspa

[Jonathan Jones]

I was also referring to the various 'kansi'u"s as well, but yes,

[Jonathan Jones]

Well, so far it's unanimous for Mr. Drinking Man.

I have to say I'm a bit disappointed, because I think the other was is so cute, but I can't say I'm surprised.

[Jonathan Jones]

On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 7:34 AM, Michael Turniansky <mturn...@gmail.com> wrote:

...Without "simxu", it means "we are accompanying-type-of-living", whihc might mean we are as a group living with someone ELSE....

That's not really a problem, IMO. While it may be true that the sentence exactly as is, but without simxu, implies that lo go'i may be living with others, it's only explicit that lo go'i ARE, and in this case, the implication is true, since they are living with their pets and children as well, as we are told later in the comic.

[Michael Turniansky]

No, that's the problem.  Without the simxu, nothing is explicit.  All we know is that "we" are living with someone, not who. Yes, it is IMPLICIT that if A is living with X and B is also living with X then A is living with B (although one can certainly contrive situations where that is not true)  The simxu makes explicit that it is reflexive -- we are living with each other.

  BTW, the reason (and again, I am conjecturing here) that Xorxes may prefer kansi'u to kansa in most cases is perhaps he perceives it as implying that lo kansa is  subordinate to lo se kansa, in that the se kansa is the one that is actually the x1 of the lo te kansa, and lo kansa is simply a "hanger-on". (similar to a  sidju relationship)

                                    --gejyspa

[Jorge Llambías]

On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 11:56 AM, Michael Turniansky
<mturn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>   BTW, the reason (and again, I am conjecturing here) that Xorxes may prefer
> kansi'u to kansa in most cases is perhaps he perceives it as implying that
> lo kansa is  subordinate to lo se kansa, in that the se kansa is the one
> that is actually the x1 of the lo te kansa, and lo kansa is simply a
> "hanger-on". (similar to a  sidju relationship)

I don't have a preference for one over the other. If you want to have
the two (or more) people doing something together in one slot, you use
"kansi'u", if you want the two people (or groups) doing something
together in different slots, you use "kansa". So which one you use
depends on how you want to structure your sentence.

In the case of "kansi'u xabju" vs "kansa xabju" I said I preferred the
former simply because the ones doing the xabju go in the same slot (x1
of xabju), but since it's a tanru "kansa xabju" can't be said to be
completely wrong, just not so directly interpretable. But "simxu
xabju", would make litttle sense.