Re: [lojban-beginners] Lojban Lujvo - My First Attempts

[.arpis.]

The schwa is added when the consonants can't be adjacent due to lojban's phonetic rules, e.g. voiced and unvoiced (like in the case of "p" and "b"); lojban also doesn't permit double consonants.

All gismu have a 4-letter rafsi corresponding to their first 4 letters.

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 6:28 PM, cariar.jermanis <primitive...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Coi ro do,

I am just learning Lojban. For my first post, I am going to list some lujvo (compound words, from my understanding) that I have made to express certain English words in Lojban. Here is what I have contrived so far:

Animals:

• pangolin - ?*mantyctimabru (? + mantyctimabru; scaly anteater) *Here I am trying to figure out what Lojbanic word would mean "scale" in the sense of an integumentary flake, as on a reptile, a fish, or on the wings of a butterfly or moth.
  
• tadpole - cifpipybanfi (cif, rafsi of cifnu + pipybanfi; baby frog), on the model of "ciftoldi" (caterpillar). 
  
• froglet - naru'epipybanfi (naru'e + pipybanfi; almost-frog)
• newly-metamorphosed frog* - ci'opipybanfi (ci'o, rafsi of citno + pipybanfi; young frog) *What I like to call a "baby frog."

Ecology:

• extinction (in the sense of hunting to or intentionally causing extinction) - mulcatra (mul, rafsi of mulno + catra; complete kill)
  
• extinction (in the sense of dying out naturally or indirectly caused by human activity) - mulnunmro (mul, rafsi of mulno  + nunmro)

Note that I have consulted the jbovlaste for the words (and Wiktionary for "mantyctimabru"). I have probably made some mistakes here - please let me know what you all think!

Tu'u,

cariar.jermanis.

PS: When is the schwa (y) added between gismu and their respective rafsi, as seen in "pipybanfi" and "mantyctimabru?" For pipybanfi, the rafsi "pip" of the gismu "plipe" does not have a final vowel, so I will suppose that the schwa is added as a helping vowel. The gismu "manti," which, according to the jbovlaste, does not appear to have any rafsi, has a final vowel, and the word "anteater" in Lojban could be spelled as mantictimabru, but the final "i" of manti is made into a schwa. Why is this?

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mu'o mi'e .arpis.

[Michael Turniansky]

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 6:28 PM, cariar.jermanis <primitive...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Coi ro do,

I am just learning Lojban. For my first post, I am going to list some lujvo (compound words, from my understanding) that I have made to express certain English words in Lojban. Here is what I have contrived so far:

Animals:

• pangolin - ?*mantyctimabru (? + mantyctimabru; scaly anteater) *Here I am trying to figure out what Lojbanic word would mean "scale" in the sense of an integumentary flake, as on a reptile, a fish, or on the wings of a butterfly or moth.

  I don't believe we've ever created a satisfactory one.  Perhaps kardyskapi?

• 
  
• tadpole - cifpipybanfi (cif, rafsi of cifnu + pipybanfi; baby frog), on the model of "ciftoldi" (caterpillar). 
  

  The cnanonical form would actually be cifpi'ebanfi

• froglet - naru'epipybanfi (naru'e + pipybanfi; almost-frog)

  That's not a lujvo,and breaks up into na ru'e pipybanfi.  May I suggest jbipi'ebanfi?

• newly-metamorphosed frog* - ci'opipybanfi (ci'o, rafsi of citno + pipybanfi; young frog) *What I like to call a "baby frog."

  This is also not a lujvo, and would break apart into ci'o pipybanfi.  What you want is "citpi'ebanfi"

Ecology:

• extinction (in the sense of hunting to or intentionally causing extinction) - mulcatra (mul, rafsi of mulno + catra; complete kill)
  
• extinction (in the sense of dying out naturally or indirectly caused by human activity) - mulnunmro (mul, rafsi of mulno  + nunmro)

Note that I have consulted the jbovlaste for the words (and Wiktionary for "mantyctimabru"). I have probably made some mistakes here - please let me know what you all think!

Tu'u,

cariar.jermanis.

PS: When is the schwa (y) added between gismu and their respective rafsi, as seen in "pipybanfi" and "mantyctimabru?" For pipybanfi, the rafsi "pip" of the gismu "plipe" does not have a final vowel, so I will suppose that the schwa is added as a helping vowel. The gismu "manti," which, according to the jbovlaste, does not appear to have any rafsi, has a final vowel, and the word "anteater" in Lojban could be spelled as mantictimabru, but the final "i" of manti is made into a schwa. Why is this?

  See the reference grammar, chapter 4, sections 5 and 6 for the long answer, but the short answer is the "y" must be added between two consonants that cannot go together (for example, voiced with unvoiced, two of the same consonant, or any of j/z/s/c with each other).  In addition it must be added to the end of four letter rafsi (which are just the full gismu with the final fvowel dropped off), which can never appear at the end.

                    --gejyspa

 

[Pierre Abbat]

On Tuesday 14 August 2012 18:28:30 cariar.jermanis wrote:
> Coi ro do,
>
> I am just learning Lojban. For my first post, I am going to list some lujvo
> (compound words, from my understanding) that I have made to express certain
> English words in Lojban. Here is what I have contrived so far:
>

> *Animals:*
>
> - pangolin - ?*mantyctimabru (? + mantyctimabru; scaly anteater) *Here I

> am trying to figure out what Lojbanic word would mean "scale" in the
> sense of an integumentary flake, as on a reptile, a fish, or on the wings
> of a butterfly or moth.

"scale" is "kapyplita", but Turnip's suggestion of "karda" makes sense too;
I'd say "kapkarda" rather than the other way around. But for "pangolin" I'd
say "pangolino" (which is a fu'ivla, not a lujvo) or "gurmabru" (translating
from Malay).

> - tadpole - cifpipybanfi (cif, rafsi of cifnu + pipybanfi; baby frog),

> on the model of "ciftoldi" (caterpillar).

> - froglet - naru'epipybanfi (naru'e + pipybanfi; almost-frog)
> - newly-metamorphosed frog* - ci'opipybanfi (ci'o, rafsi of citno +

> pipybanfi; young frog) *What I like to call a "baby frog."

I'd say "cifybanfi", "ci'orbanfi", and "ma'urbanfi", as long as the context
makes it clear whether I'm talking about frogs or salamanders. There's also
the "aclotli".

> *Ecology:*
>
> - extinction (in the sense of hunting to or intentionally causing

> extinction) - mulcatra (mul, rafsi of mulno + catra; complete kill)

> - extinction (in the sense of dying out naturally or indirectly caused

> by human activity) - mulnunmro (mul, rafsi of mulno + nunmro)

I say "jutmro" for "extinct".

> Note that I have consulted the jbovlaste for the words (and Wiktionary for
> "mantyctimabru"). I have probably made some mistakes here - please let me
> know what you all think!
>
> Tu'u,
> cariar.jermanis.

You mean "mu'o mi'e". "tu'u" is the terminator of "tu'e", which is used to
group together several sentences.

Pierre

--
ve ka'a ro klaji la .romas. se jmaji

[Pierre Abbat]

On Thursday 16 August 2012 04:49:02 cariar.jermanis. wrote:
> Coi Pierre,
>
> I am a little surprised that no gismu for "scale" had been contrived during
> the invention process. Well, I guess I will make do with "kapkarda." But
> when I think about it, "kapkardamantyctimabru" would be a very long word to
> use conventionally, so I think using a fi'uvla would be better here.
> "Gurmabru" could also be used for the armadillo, which also rolls into a
> ball.

A similar problem occurs with "jesymabru", which could refer to a hedgehog
(ernace), a porcupine (jesyratcu), or a spiny anteater (zalgosu). The
armadillo is called "cakmabru".

> On the frog life-stages, I feel that since the larvae of frogs and toads
> are very distinct from their adult counterparts - while the larvae of
> salamanders are not so much save for their gills and number of legs,
> "cifpi'ebanfi," "ci'orpi'ebanfi," etc. for "tadpole,"
> "froglet/metamorphizing tadpole," etc. would remain fine if one wants to
> refer specifically to frogs and toads. However, if one wants to refer to
> amphibians in general, the terms you suggested aren't disagreeable either.
> Lincro suggested "jbi(pi'e)banfi" if I wanted to express that a
> metamorphizing tadpole is an "almost/near-frog." Perhaps I will use that to
> describe an evolutionary ancestor of frogs. As for the axolotl, well:
>
> le aclotli. ci'orbanfi.
>
> Or what I hope to be correctly saying:
>
> "The axolotl remains young."

I think what you mean is "lo .aclotli cu ci'orvi'o lo nu se jaurfepri",
where "ci'orvi'o" means "neotenous" and I'm open to suggestions about this
word.

> On possible words for extinction, could the "jutmro" that you proposed be
> placed like this:
>
> x1 is/is made extinct by x2 through/by means of x3.

"morsi", and therefore "jutmro", don't have a place for the cause of death.
You want "jutmro" or "jutycatra".

> Also, if, for example, I wanted to say "the extinction of the dodo," would
> I say:
>
> la jutmro. le dodo.

You'd say "le nu lo cipnrdodo cu jutmrobi'o". "dodo" is a repeated
pronoun; "le dodo" is ungrammatical.

Pierre
--
lo ponse be lo mruli po'o cu ga'ezga roda lo ka dinko

[Michael Turniansky]

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 4:49 AM, cariar.jermanis. <primitive...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Lincro suggested "jbi(pi'e)banfi" if I wanted to express that a metamorphizing tadpole is an "almost/near-frog." Perhaps I will use that to describe an evolutionary ancestor of frogs

  You had wanted "froglet - naru'epipybanfi (naru'e + pipybanfi; almost-frog)", which, as I said, doesn't work as a lujvo.  "jibni"(->jbi), on the other hand, is the gismu equivalent of "na ru'e" (almost, not quite).  But if you really want to express something becoming a frog from an earlier state, I suggest you look towards "farvi" for your root gismu.

  ni'o How did you see my name as Lincro? It's true that I use that as a sign in name for yahoo mail, but since I never use that email account for anything, and replied to this list (as I do all my mail) using my gmail account, how did "Lincro" come up? (I also didn't sign my letter lincro)  This is more than a  little disturbing to me.  There should be zero correspondence between the two accounts. (note to jbopre: despite its lujvo-ish form, "Lincro" has nothing to do with "chain pain".  It was the randomly-generated name of a fox familiar of one the PCs (not mine) in a AD&D campaign I ran for seven years, back before most of you were born (lojbab being the big exception ;-)), and before the existence of lojban. (Although I did already use Loglan for the ancient common language of the humans and dwarves))\

                 --gejyspa

[Lindar]

gejyspa,

This.

(See attachment.)

[Michael Turniansky]

 ki'e lindar .i la'a selri'a lo nu muvgau lo lojbo mrilu bo girzu la gugl. la .ia'us. .i mi na pu djuno lo du'u le la'e de'u selgafka'e selkai cu zasti

  Thanks.  Must be an artifact from when the lojban groups were moved from yahoo groups to google groups.  Didn't even know that setting existed (since I read everything in email)

     --gejyspa

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Lindar <lindar...@gmail.com> wrote:

gejyspa,

This.

(See attachment.)

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