Translating "how" + infinitive

[mudri]

I'm trying to translate "I want to learn how to swim." (from Tatoeba). As the title suggests, I'm okay with {mi djica lo ka cilre}, but I don't know how to translate "how to swim" (or whether to put it in x2 or x3). If you can answer the question, you might want to do the Tatoeba translation too.

[MorphemeAddict]

I can't answer your question, but "I know how to swim"/"I learned how to swim" seem equivalent to "I can swim"/"I learned to swim", both without "how". 

stevo

On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 5:54 PM, mudri <jammya...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm trying to translate "I want to learn how to swim." (from Tatoeba). As the title suggests, I'm okay with {mi djica lo ka cilre}, but I don't know how to translate "how to swim" (or whether to put it in x2 or x3). If you can answer the question, you might want to do the Tatoeba translation too.

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[Jorge Llambías]

"cilre" as defined is for learning facts, not for acquiring skills. So
I suggest "crebi'o" ("ko'a binxo lo certu be ko'e", "x1 becomes adept
at doing x2") or if you want a place for your teacher or source of
learning you can use "crecpa" ("ko'a cpacu lo ka ce'u certu ko'e kei
ko'i", "x1 acquires skill x2 from x3").

mu'o mi'e xorxes

[mudri]

ki'e, but in this case wouldn't something like {ka'erbi'o} be more appropriate? djica1 probably isn't wanting to become an expert, just capable.

mi djica lo ka ka'erbi'o lo nu limna

On Sunday, 15 July 2012 23:08:54 UTC+1, xorxes wrote:

[Jorge Llambías]

On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 7:19 PM, mudri <jammya...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ki'e, but in this case wouldn't something like {ka'erbi'o} be more
> appropriate? djica1 probably isn't wanting to become an expert, just
> capable.
>
> mi djica lo ka ka'erbi'o lo nu limna

That works too. (Although if you use "ka" with "djica" you should
probably use it with "kakne"/"ka'erbi'o" too to be consistent.)

[.arpis.]

Since {certu} has an x3 "by standard" place, it arguably fits better than {kakne}, which is an innate capacity. Even someone who doesn't know how to swim has the innate capacity to do so (arguably).

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mu'o mi'e .arpis.

[Jorge Llambías]

On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 7:25 PM, .arpis. <rpglover...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Since {certu} has an x3 "by standard" place, it arguably fits better than
> {kakne}, which is an innate capacity. Even someone who doesn't know how to
> swim has the innate capacity to do so (arguably).

"kakne" isn't defined as innate. That would be "se jinzi".

[mudri]

.ie le velski be zo kakne cu vasru zoi gy [also: has talent; know how to; know how to use (= plika'e)] gy .i pe'a le danfu mi pu caicta

On Sunday, 15 July 2012 23:31:39 UTC+1, xorxes wrote:

[.arpis.]

.oise'i

I must have mixed up the subtleties between {ka'e} and {kakne}...
{ka'e} is defined to be innate, though, right?

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[mudri]

Indeed; I hadn't noticed that.

On Sunday, 15 July 2012 23:52:08 UTC+1, .arpis. wrote:

.oise'i

I must have mixed up the subtleties between {ka'e} and {kakne}...
{ka'e} is defined to be innate, though, right?

On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 6:31 PM, Jorge Llambías <jjlla...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 7:25 PM, .arpis. <rpglover...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Since {certu} has an x3 "by standard" place, it arguably fits better than
> {kakne}, which is an innate capacity. Even someone who doesn't know how to
> swim has the innate capacity to do so (arguably).

"kakne" isn't defined as innate. That would be "se jinzi".

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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[Jorge Llambías]

On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 7:52 PM, .arpis. <rpglover...@gmail.com> wrote:
> .oise'i
>
> I must have mixed up the subtleties between {ka'e} and {kakne}...
> {ka'e} is defined to be innate, though, right?

It is so defined, but it doesn't really make much sense. "ka'e"
modifies a bridi. What could it mean for a bridi to have innate
properties? "ka'e" just says that something is possible.

[Pierre Abbat]

On Sunday 15 July 2012 17:54:57 mudri wrote:
> I'm trying to translate "I want to learn how to

> swim."<http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/256169> (from Tatoeba). As the

> title suggests, I'm okay with {mi djica lo ka cilre}, but I don't know how
> to translate "how to swim" (or whether to put it in x2 or x3). If you can
> answer the question, you might want to do the Tatoeba translation too.

I suggest "lo zu'o limna". Using "crebi'o", "mi djica lo nu crebi'o lo zu'o
limna".

Pierre
--
loi mintu se ckaji danlu cu jmaji

[Lindar]

I suggest:

{.i mi pu cilre fi lo tadji be lo nu limna} - I learned how to swim. (lit. "I [past] learn [something] about (the method/technique of (the event of (is-a-swimmer))).")

So... yeah...

[MorphemeAddict]

On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 10:53 PM, Lindar <lindar...@gmail.com> wrote:

I suggest:

{.i mi pu cilre fi lo tadji be lo nu limna} - I learned how to swim. (lit. "I [past] learn [something] about (the method/technique of (the event of (is-a-swimmer))).")

It's that "about" that's the problem. I didn't necessarily learn anything 'about' anything, I learned a new skill, perhaps by being thrown in a swimming pool. It's still "I learned to swim". 

stevo 

So... yeah...

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[Jorge Llambías]

If you learn that there are different methods of swimming, you have
lerned something about them, but you have not learned how to swim.

mu'o mié xorxes

[Lindar]

Okay, so what's the correct answer?

[mudri]

I settled for {mi djica lo ka ka'erbi'o lo ka limna} - basically rephrasing to avoid "how to".