Massive clone group

[Igor Roberti Foc]

Hello Mathieu,

Before to start working with XML.. I ask you if you are interessed to improve the clone of groups function:

Now I create 32 scenes (_S01,_S02_S03...,_S32 ) that are relative to the color Blue. Now I would like to copy (_S32,_S64 ) and just change the minimum and maximum of receptors Hue for pars and color for moving head.

What do you think, can be interessing for others?

Thank you

[Igor Roberti Foc]

Or can be interessing a virtual linked group. A group that is a copy of the other but with some parameter that you want change, you can't edit in this group.

think about something to edit massive grids please :) 

[isaac]

Just to be sure we understand correctly,

s01, s32 are all independant groups, and you want to clone each of them so s33 is clone of s1, s34 is clone of s2 etc but with different settings?

Or are s1-s32 all cones of a master group and you want to create clones s33-s64 of the same master but with defferent settings?

Here is an idea (even if I don't understand exactly what you need):

Instead of restraining the Hue with min/max manually (which cannot be changed in a clone),
you could leave the values at 0-100 and use your sources to restrain the Hue of each grid, with functions like "restrain" or "scale".

Also by using variables (like sliders) instead of fixed values, you can change these easily for a bunch of grids at the same time.

[Mathieu]

Just to be sure, can you describe the problem with the actual duplicate group feature? 

[Igor Roberti Foc]

I made 32 grids.
One grid is 1 scene.
All these grids are in 1 group called 'blue/orange scenes'.
Now I need to copy all these scenes changing colors. I structured all hue object with minimum (blue) and maximum (orange), and I create all colors effects with 0/100% (CAN CAN, KNIGHT RIDERS, FIREWORKS OF THIS TWO COLOR...)

If I copy the group now:
- I copy the group
- I edit every grid changing the min max with colors choosed
- I make new links (s33, s34...)

This for every combination of colors i choosed.

A massive change or parameter of a group can create new scenes in few clicks.

Don't worry if you don't like, I can use the xml with a sobstitute.

Thank you

[Mathieu]

Ok, I guess you'd need duplicated grids to automatically get attribute IDs and any duplicated grids using the original grids need to switch to use the newly duplicated grids?

So basically, you're creating one grid per cue for your show with each cue having the attributes for all your lights. It will certainly be a real pain if you need to change a color of a scene as if I understand correctly, you'd need to edit all 32 grids of that scene. Unless, at least you use the color pallette or if all grids from a scene are linked to a master grid.

I think I see why you're doing it this way, but I'm not sure it's a good idea to continue down this road by adding more features related to this. 

This again makes me think about a way to allow providing parameters to grids. For example, you could create a generic rainbow hue effect with a min hue and max hue parameters. Probably by adding customizable sliders next to the activation and speed sliders of the grids. 

[Igor Roberti Foc]

Bravo.
Generic = love
At the end you could fade between the same grid with different parameter? Wow

I changed 3 times all my structure, and every time there is something that is impossible to reusr beautifull things with less effort.
This way I did for me was the less complex because there is the xml that avoid copy, paste and adjust settings for an infinity of hour.

Thank you mat

[Mathieu]

Yes, you could control the "hue" parameter of a grid via another grid (a sequencer) and do a fade.

To do that now, you need to use gmem/grecall to pass parameters to your grids. It's possible but not very elegant. But still, it might be better than creating one grid per cue since at least you can reuse your effects.

[Igor Roberti Foc]

I took this way.. gmem, grecall, lot of formulas.. But after one month is too complex to remember and reuse (and lot of fade in/out complex structure).
With sliders as gmem/grecall you can't reuse the same grid in serie.
For this reason is better my actual way.

[Igor Roberti Foc]

Lightjam it make easier what is complex, permit complex things, is friendly, is smart.

It only miss generic function, scalable things, reuse cue,..

I hope you will have an idea, I trust you ;)

[isaac]

I have thought of this in the past also, to be able to control Hue/Pallette at a Group level that would affect all Grids in it even when they are Duplicates of a Master, kind of what you are saying...

It depends alot on the type of project, sometimes it's easier to have everything seperated by color, other times it's easier to have the color as a variable, to be changed on the fly without having to change grids/scenes.

Just thinking out loud here, but what if when Duplicating, you could choose to only preserve/link attribute positions and not "parameters" like Hue max-min/pallette or Int max-min values?

[Mathieu]

Well, imagine that your grid had an attribute named "hue" and you could control it from another grid like you control its activation and speed. Then in your grid, there would be a new variable named "grid.hue" that you can use in your formulas.

I'm thinking about adding 4 attributes per grid: hue1, hue2, effect1 and effect2.

[Mathieu]

Linking only the layout and not the min/max would be possible I think. May be an interesting option to investigate. I'm just not sure this would help what Igor is trying to do since he'd still need to duplicate many grids.

[Igor Roberti Foc]

Nice Idea!

'control Pallette at a Group level'

I never use palette because is not reusable, with this suggestion everything change.

[isaac]

And would it be on a Group also? I think it would help in Igor's example.

[isaac]

 

Linking only the layout and not the min/max would be possible I think. May be an interesting option to investigate. I'm just not sure this would help what Igor is trying to do since he'd still need to duplicate many grids.

Yeah, he would still have to duplicate everything and then change all the min/max of each grid, but at least the layouts would be linked. I just thought it might be easier to achieve and it could have other uses unrelated to this topic ;)

Youre new suggestion is much more interesting, as it removes the need for duplicating anything.

[Igor Roberti Foc]

I continue to brainstorm :) trying to find best way:

If you can set 10 parameters at group level? After in the grid you can call group.parameter.1

When you copy and paste a grid in another group it change his behaviour. It's more flexible because you can use for color, pan tilt, time,..

Thank you

[Mathieu]

After some more thinking, maybe allowing the global sliders to be controllable like attributes on a grid (as the grid's activation and speed) would be enough. It adds just enough flexibility to parameterize grids/effects with a fraction of the complexity incurred by adding multiple sliders for all grids and groups. 

And I'm talking about the added burden for all users to understand what all these new slider do, even though they're for advanced users only.

[Igor Roberti Foc]

Ok, Mathieu,

Maybe I don't understand very well :).

I attach your example that you posted yesterday oriented on colors. Now I would like that react with a  parameter changing color (1 Orange/blue, 2 Yellow, Pink, 3 Red/ blue).

It will be possibile? For now you can use a local variable to show me the way.

Thank you

[jur1...@gmail.com]

set the power of this run to intensity..... not to colour 

so you can control your power switching from an other grid

.....in my example you have to add colors at the same way like I did it with Intensity

look - Monitorfile 

[jur1...@gmail.com]

....the two other points are only for my fun  

  

[Igor Roberti Foc]

The effect is really nice!

But I would like only to show that's the big effort on Lightjam is when you try to create a generic grid that permit to change colors palette. This is the big effort on math formula and the result is quite difficult to manage. For this reason is better the copy/paste the grid and change min/max of colors, but this is an effort too for mantaining the structure when you wnat to change/add an effect.

 

Thank you

[Mathieu]

Here's the modified effect using the value of slider(1) for the hue. With the new slider controllable as an attribute feature, you would then be able to control the value of the slider from your sequencer grid. So each cue could set the hue. 

In other words, you'd be able to reuse the same effect in many cues by setting its hue parameter via the global sliders. I guess you would link the value of slider(1) to multiple of your effects to mean something like "main hue". You could define a "secondary hue" as the slider(2) and so on for all the parameters of your show.

[jur1...@gmail.com]

.....another way

[Mathieu]

Juergen, this is effectively a brilliant way to reuse the same effect by changing the hue. You could put the hue selector outside the effect and this would be very generic.

However, from what I understand, Igor wants to reuse hue effects like a rainbow between a min and a max hue. At the moment, there's no easy way to configure this rainbow effect from a sequencer grid to create cues of different colors. 

One solution would be to be able to provide parameters to the rainbow effect. Linking the sources of the rainbow effect to the global sliders should work. However, we need a way to set the values of the global sliders from a sequencer grid. So if global sliders would be controllable like grid's activation and speed (via attributes that you can put on a grid), this should do the job.

[Igor Roberti Foc]

Really nice,

but it's different that I show, It's not the intensity to move like Tetris, are two color (as my example). This is really difficult to manage with just one grid.

[Igor Roberti Foc]

Hello,

leaving the problem of generic grids, do you know how to syncronize this example based on your effect?

Thank you

[Mathieu]

Hi,

What do you mean by synchronize?

[Igor Roberti Foc]

When the first serie is finish go to the second (I try with on beat and latch but I didn't find the solution).

Now Is configured with a sawtooth on y axis temporized (but is not sync after 3-4 round) 

[Mathieu]

Well, it's more math and taking the time to do it. It's left as an exercise to the reader ;) If you prefer, take the version of this effect with a constant run time - https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lightjams/TNwvA7_svVs/-6A7-QVRBgAJ

[Igor Roberti Foc]

Doesn't seem to be so difficult, when the right source arrive at x = 3 (latch) must go to the next row 

I triied to set y formula on right source:

100-xtopercent(counter(1,2,onbeat(grid.lastx == 3),0))

But down't work

Il giorno domenica 8 aprile 2018 20:27:06 UTC+2, Mathieu ha scritto:

Well, it's more math and taking the time to do it. It's left as an exercise to the reader ;) If you prefer, take the version of this effect with a constant run time.

[Igor Roberti Foc]

Found, there is little glitch, but I can't test on live.

[Mathieu]

Here's a new beta version (v495) with the new attributes for the global sliders - https://www.lightjams.com/history.html

That means you can control the sliders from your sequencer grids and use the slider(id) function in your rainbow grid to parameterize it. See the attached project file for an example.

[o865324]

Hi Mathieu, sample project looks very interesting. If I open an existing project with v494 though then all my existing sliders are reset with no name or formula.

On Monday, 9 April 2018 17:23:29 UTC+1, Mathieu wrote:

Here's a new beta version (v494) with the new attributes for the global sliders - https://www.lightjams.com/history.html

[Mathieu]

Good catch! Fixed in v495. I've also updated the "raibow with param.ljp" test project file.

[jur1...@gmail.com]

......same Problem .......all slider formulas are on value 0     (my projekt formulas erased)

[Mathieu]

See previous post. Fixed in v495.