Version 3.0 System Requirements

[Mark Dexter]

Hi everyone. I just posted the draft system requirements here:
http://www.joomla.org/technical-requirements.html.

This is based on a long discussion on the dev list last fall. Here is
the link: http://tinyurl.com/7aobtpk

If anyone has comments or concerns (or corrections) about this, please
start the discussion. Thanks. Mark

[JM Simonet]

These look fine.
JM

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[Chrysovalantis Mochlas]

Thank you Mark. By the way great work both from you and Louis with the book Joomla Programming! I bought it as soon as it was available ;)

[Liam]

Doesn't sound weird, I think my server 'll understand it.

Op dinsdag 3 juli 2012 23:47:18 UTC+1 schreef Mark Dexter het volgende:

[elin]

I think we can take out footnote *  as 1.5 no longer supports php 4 in any version.

Apropos of the other thread, should we add some recommendations such as SuPHP and the list of requirements that get checked on installation?

Are we really supporting all versions of 5.3? I thought there were some meaningful changes between versions. The platform repo says 5.3.1 but I tend to think we should specify the current release since they always include bug fixes and this has to last a while.

Elin

[JM Simonet]

I think we already had a discusion on this and that 5.3.1 was accepted as minimum requirements.

JM

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[Nikolai Plath]

How about recommending 5.4 ?

[elin]

That's my memory also. So it should be specified although I think it would be smarter to say something closer to the current release which is 5.3.14.  Also I have not been following 5.4 releases closely.    For the most part there are few differences but sometimes there are important ones (which is why we specified dot versions previously). For example 5.4.3 and 5.3.13 fixed an important vulnerability. It does look like there has been at least one change in behavior. Also we sometimes have to do workarounds for php bugs and  if we have a higher requirement of course that means at least some of those can be avoided. 

http://www.php.net/

http://www.php.net/ChangeLog-5.php

El Kuku I do think we should recommend but not require 5.4.  I think we can with confidence predict that by the end of the lifecycle of J3 (and probably by the release of 3.5) that will be the standard and further that we are going to end up with platform compatibility issues after they raise their minimum (the 5.3.1 posted is just a commitment for Platform 12 and that has only 6 months left really).   

I do think that we should be clear that no matter what the minimum the CMS should not deliberately break compatibility. It is more about having the freedom to move forward with improving without having to guarantee that all improvements will work for unsupported versions. This is similar to how we worked to assure that the CMS would work on IIS for many years even though it was not officially supported. We did that because it addressed the real world needs of our users.

Elin

On Friday, July 6, 2012 4:41:47 AM UTC-4, infograf768 wrote:

I think we already had a discusion on this and that 5.3.1 was accepted as minimum requirements.

JM

I think we can take out footnote *  as 1.5 no longer supports php 4 in any version.

Apropos of the other thread, should we add some recommendations such as SuPHP and the list of requirements that get checked on installation?

Are we really supporting all versions of 5.3? I thought there were some meaningful changes between versions. The platform repo says 5.3.1 but I tend to think we should specify the current release since they always include bug fixes and this has to last a while.

Elin

On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 5:02:54 AM UTC-4, Liam Edwards wrote:

Doesn't sound weird, I think my server 'll understand it.

Op dinsdag 3 juli 2012 23:47:18 UTC+1 schreef Mark Dexter het volgende:

Hi everyone. I just posted the draft system requirements here:
http://www.joomla.org/technical-requirements.html.

This is based on a long discussion on the dev list last fall. Here is
the link: http://tinyurl.com/7aobtpk

If anyone has comments or concerns (or corrections) about this, please
start the discussion. Thanks. Mark

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Joomla! Translation Coordination Team 

On Friday, July 6, 2012 4:41:47 AM UTC-4, infograf768 wrote:

I think we already had a discusion on this and that 5.3.1 was accepted as minimum requirements.

JM

I think we can take out footnote *  as 1.5 no longer supports php 4 in any version.

Apropos of the other thread, should we add some recommendations such as SuPHP and the list of requirements that get checked on installation?

Are we really supporting all versions of 5.3? I thought there were some meaningful changes between versions. The platform repo says 5.3.1 but I tend to think we should specify the current release since they always include bug fixes and this has to last a while.

Elin

On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 5:02:54 AM UTC-4, Liam Edwards wrote:

Doesn't sound weird, I think my server 'll understand it.

Op dinsdag 3 juli 2012 23:47:18 UTC+1 schreef Mark Dexter het volgende:

Hi everyone. I just posted the draft system requirements here:
http://www.joomla.org/technical-requirements.html.

This is based on a long discussion on the dev list last fall. Here is
the link: http://tinyurl.com/7aobtpk

If anyone has comments or concerns (or corrections) about this, please
start the discussion. Thanks. Mark

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[Gary Mort]

On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 10:37 AM, elin <elin....@gmail.com> wrote:

That's my memory also. So it should be specified although I think it would be smarter to say something closer to the current release which is 5.3.14.  

I would plan on assuming PHP 5.3.3

This is the current version supported in Centos and Debian:

http://mirror.centos.org/centos/5/updates/x86_64/RPMS/

http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/libapache2-mod-php5

While Debian may upgrade sooner, Centos is unlikely to change anytime soon[actually, Centos default to 5.1.6 - but 5.3 is available]

I'd say when making suggestions, check the repositories and link to the trusted additional repos with later versions of PHP....

[Rouven Weßling]

Well Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (server is supported until 2015) only has 5.3.2. Going up to 5.3.2 doesn't give us any immediate benefits, so we might as well support 5.3.1.

For those interested, we could simplify a bit of platform code by going to 5.3.3 (very little) or 5.3.6 (a bit more).

Best regards

Rouven

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[garyamort]

On Friday, July 6, 2012 11:43:20 AM UTC-4, Rouven Weßling wrote:

Well Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (server is supported until 2015) only has 5.3.2. Going up to 5.3.2 doesn't give us any immediate benefits, so we might as well support 5.3.1.

I generally check with the latest Debian and Centos.

Ubuntu is Debian + extra code and is generally a number of versions ahead of Debian for sub-packages like PHP.

Fedora and other Red Hat derivatives are generally far far far ahead of the latest CentOS version.

So by using Debian and CentOS I know what minimum versions are currently supported.  Not sure about other server distribution chains.

[Rouven Weßling]

On 06.07.2012, at 18:37, garyamort wrote:

Ubuntu is Debian + extra code and is generally a number of versions ahead of Debian for sub-packages like PHP.

That's why I looked at the LTS. I know no one who uses a non-LTS version on a server. That doesn't mean nobody does that, but I'd probably worry about their sanity.

Rouven

[elin]

Okay if we think  there is server support for 5.3.2 until the EOL of J3 then I think that's a valid criteria.

At any rate, whatever the dot version is, it should be specified.

Elin

[Andrea Tarr at Tarr Consulting]

and XAMPP for OS X still has PHP 5.3.1 :) 

Andy

Andrea Tarr

Tarr Consulting

www.tarrconsulting.com

[Victor Drover]

Try MAMP

Sent from my iPhone

[Sam Moffatt]

Mac OS X 10.6.8 features PHP 5.3.4 built in.

Sam Moffatt
http://pasamio.id.au

[Andrea Tarr at Tarr Consulting]

My point was more that XAMPP is a very popular way to get web servers set up locally for inexperienced people so that would just add one more hurdle.

[brian teeman]

Andrea you're out of date. According to their web site the current PHP version that XAMPP uses is 5.3.8

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[Andrea Tarr at Tarr Consulting]

Not of Mac OS X 64:

Apache 2.2.14, MySQL 5.1.44, PHP 5.3.1, Perl 5.10.1, ProFTPD 1.3.3, phpMyAdmin 3.2.4, OpenSSL 0.9.8k, GD 2.0.35, Freetype 2.3.5, libjpeg 6b, libpng 1.2.32, libungif-4.1.4, zlib 1.2.3, expat 2.0.1, Ming 0.4.2, Webalizer 2.01-10, pdf class 009e, mod_perl 2.0.4, SQLite 3.6.3, gdbm-1.8.3, libxml-2.7.2, libxslt-1.1.24, openldap-2.3.43, imap-2004g, gettext-0.16.1, libmcrypt-2.5.8, mhash-0.9.9, zziplib-0.13.48, bzip2-1.0.5, freetds-0.64
MD5 checksum: fcbd4b14461a5b9e7a817f99defd0be2 

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[brian teeman]

Wow - strange that their OSX version is so far behind their windows version. And looking at their beta announcement today they are only updating windows and linux releases

[Andreas Tasch]

Regarding XAMPP, I recently searched their forum regarding this and I read at least once that OSX support has been paused, don't know if there are technical reasons or if there is a maintainer missing. I think I will switch to MAMP if there is no more progress.

[Victor Drover]

MAMP has been great, and MAMP PRO is definitely worth the $$.

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[Steve]

Apologies if this has already been answered, but won't the minimum specs make it hard to encourage people to update any time soon?

Only just over 30% of hosting companies are on PHP 5.3:

http://w3techs.com/technologies/details/pl-php/5/all 

That's 70% of our potential audience that won't meet the minimum standards.

We'll be a long way ahead of the curve on this:

• Drupal will still accept 5.2 until 8 comes out next year http://drupal.org/requirements/
  
• WordPress still accepts 5.2:  http://wordpress.org/about/requirements/ 
  
• VBulletin is 5.2:  https://www.vbulletin.com/docs/html/main/system_requirements

I did find some smaller projects that do require 5.3:

• Silverstripe:  http://doc.silverstripe.org/framework/en/installation/server-requirements
• Moodle:  http://docs.moodle.org/23/en/Installing_Moodle#Requirements
• ModX:  http://develop.modx.com/develop/revolution/requirements/

[Amy Stephen]

I would interpret those numbers to represent "existing sites running 5.3" rather than "versions hosts will make available to users for their site." In many cases, a user might have to specifically ask for 5.3, but it should be available at most hosts. (Admittedly, I have no evidence to back that claim.)

Was noticing the other day that the Auro Project requires PHP 5.4. Symfony requires PHP 5.3.2.

Remembering that this is an N.0 release and that the requirements started with will continue through the long-term release with 3.5, it makes good sense, in my opinion, to go with 5.3.

PHP 5.2.14 was released August 2010 as the last release for that version. http://www.php.net/archive/2010.php#id2010-07-22-1 We always encourage users to stay up-to-date with Joomla versions, so, it only seems fitting that we do the same with system requirements.

Also, WP was late adopting 5 and Drupal early and pushing others that direction. I would assume Drupal were releasing at the same time as Joomla, I would expect them to adopt 5.3 as a minimum. (Well, they'd have too since it's required by Symfony.)

For those Joomla users who cannot switch (and I hope they are rare and would first reconsider their hosting arrangement), there still is 2.5. Maybe that's a point to add to the marketing to differentiate between the releases.

I think it's important to move forward. If 5.4 were the requirement, then I'd say Joomla might end up alienating users, but 5.3 should be okay.

[Steve]

Thanks Amy. Question answered and resolved. Thanks :)

[Terrance W. Arthur]

I disagree about Amy's interpretation. There are a ton of terrible hosting companies out there and we have no way of knowing what they can offer. My personal experience with clients in Australia is that many don't yet have the option of 5.3 and still need the FTP layer. I can't imagine what other less developed countries might have available to them.

Terry Arthur

Sent from my iPad

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[Mark Dexter]

That's exactly why we have the option of the LTS release (in this case
2.5.x). If someone is working with a very old PHP version, they
probably can't expect to be working with a new version of Joomla. Mark

[elin]

I think what it comes down to is, we are neutral on whether people should use LTS or STS.  The 3.x cycle has to last for 3 years and we are building it on the platform that has 5.3 as the minimum.  By the time 3.5 comes out I think it's reasonable to expect that hosts will be on 5.3 by default. 

Elin

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[JM Simonet]

If feasible, we should implement in code a check for php version before the install when using joomalupdate, with a message of warning when php version is not the minimum required.

Also, we had a tracker a few months ago proposing a general warning message telling the user to make sure the extensions used on the site are compatible with the new version of joomla proposed.

I guess these should go into a 2.5.7.

JM

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[Ofer Cohen]

I don't know if this is the right thread to write about it, but recently nginx start to raise: http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2012/07/03/july-2012-web-server-survey.html. Nginx will get over iis in the next few months (see the active sites graph)
All of my servers runs it and Joomla runs fine on it (1.5 & 2.5). In addition, I've added docs in the wiki about this: http://docs.joomla.org/Nginx

I will recommended to add nginx in versions 1.1 & 1.2 for Joomla 2.5 & 3.0.

Ofer Cohen

[Rouven Weßling]

I think the server requirement mostly refer to the rewrite rule, personally I wouldn't add it until someone contributes some rewrite rules for Nginx.

Rouven