Joomla updater plans

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Jen Kramer

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Jul 9, 2012, 9:28:18 AM7/9/12
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Hello all--

The marketing group has been discussing the Joomla 3 rollout, but we are realizing we need information about the plans about the updater.

We are still working on the message, but we think that this is the story behind what we'll advise people for migrating:

- If you're on Joomla 2.5, stay on Joomla 2.5 until Joomla 3.5 comes out, and migrate then.

- If you're building a new site, build in 2.5 for stability (and migrate to 3.5 when it's ready) or build in 3.x for the cutting-edge features. Be sure to keep up with updates if you take this path (3.0, 3.1, 3.5).

Note that this marketing message assumes much on the development end. So the next question is whether our assumptions are true, and whether the development vision is coinciding with the marketing message.

a. There is an easy migration path (hopefully "one click") from Joomla 2.5 to Joomla 3.5.

b. If I'm running a Joomla 2.5 site, I'm getting notifications about Joomla 2.5 updates. Hopefully I'm not even seeing notifications about Joomla 3.x updates until Joomla 3.5.0 is released.

What we'd like to avoid as a community is this (think about clients for the most part):

- My Joomla 2.5 site tells me 3.0 is available. I click the one click update. The interface is radically different, and my extensions break. Surprise!

- I just paid to have my 1.5 site moved to 2.5, and now 3.0 is available? Quick, move me to XYZ CMS so I don't have to deal with these crazy Joomla updates anymore!


I think the best solution is that 2.5 updates are delivered via the Joomla Updater to 2.5 sites, unless an option is changed. Think going into Options and toggling a button to show the next release cycle or something similar.

Let us know what's happening when you can.

Thanks,
Jen

JM Simonet

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Jul 9, 2012, 11:47:12 AM7/9/12
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Some thoughts.
At this stage, i.e. not knowing what will exactly be in 3.0 and what B/C we will get in 3.x, I find it difficult to define any marketing message concerning 3.x usage, even for new sites.  Our experience with the 1.6/1.7/2.5 series shows we should be very careful on this.
 
Concerning the migration from 2.5 to 3.5, I do not think anyone knows for now what it will be.
We should not propose indeed any update from a 2.5.x to a 3.x until we are sure this will not break anything (afaik it will break stuff). Therefore in any case, the updateserver url should be different.

JM
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Mark Dexter

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Jul 9, 2012, 12:25:02 PM7/9/12
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I agree with JM. We don't really know much about what the upgrade path
with be for 2.5 to 3.0 at this point. Most likely we will need new
templates, and we hope that other extensions will be able to run with
little or no modification. That's all we can say for now, until we
have a clearer picture. Mark

On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 8:47 AM, JM Simonet <infog...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Some thoughts.
> At this stage, i.e. not knowing what will exactly be in 3.0 and what B/C we
> will get in 3.x, I find it difficult to define any marketing message
> concerning 3.x usage, even for new sites. Our experience with the
> 1.6/1.7/2.5 series shows we should be very careful on this.
>
> Concerning the migration from 2.5 to 3.5, I do not think anyone knows for
> now what it will be.
> We should not propose indeed any update from a 2.5.x to a 3.x until we are
> sure this will not break anything (afaik it will break stuff). Therefore in
> any case, the updateserver url should be different.
>
> JM
>

Steve

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Jul 9, 2012, 1:05:58 PM7/9/12
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Thanks guys

Is it fair to say this then?
  • Joomla 2.5 will be the recommended version for quite some time after the launch of Joomla 3.0, perhaps even until Joomla 3.5 arrives.
  • 2.5 will remain the version we will show on the homepage and on all download pages.
  • 3.0 is mentioned around the site, but always with a clear warning that is the bleeding edge version and only for devs.
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Mark Dexter

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Jul 9, 2012, 1:28:37 PM7/9/12
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I don't think so. 3.0 is the stable STS release and 2.5 is the stable
LTS release. Mark
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Steve

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Jul 9, 2012, 1:39:09 PM7/9/12
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Thanks Mark

Does that differ in any substantial way from the plan above?
  • 3.0 = STS = Bleeding edge = Not recommended for the majority of users
Steve


On Monday, July 9, 2012 1:28:37 PM UTC-4, Mark Dexter wrote:
I don't think so. 3.0 is the stable STS release and 2.5 is the stable
LTS release. Mark

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Sam Moffatt

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Jul 9, 2012, 2:03:58 PM7/9/12
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3.0 = Has backwards incompatible changes.

Cheers,

Sam Moffatt
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elin

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Jul 9, 2012, 2:50:00 PM7/9/12
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3.0 .. totally fine for new sites and recommended except that it may be hard to find an off the shelf template until the template houses catch up with new outputs. But if you are happy with playing with the core templates or buying or  making a custom template you're totally fine.  

For 3.0 you may have to do some waiting for your preferred extensions and should contact the developers if you are absolutely committed to use a specific extension. Developers who are paying attention are already  switching to the "legacy" naming pattern for the older MVC since that will be backward compatible with 2.5.  

If you are making a simple informational/brochure site you will be fine on either but you should expect to have to update more often with 3.0 since 2.5 will be on a much slower schedule.  

If you are starting a new client project that is going to take several months  to complete i.e. that will get you past the first few bug fix release of 3.0.x and the extensions you want to use say they will be ready in that time frame then going 3.0 makes sense.  If you have to have  a new site up and running in 2 weeks after 3.0 is released, I would do 2.5.

For do it yourself webmasters I'd really say it depends  on your patience in possibly having to wait for extensions and a bit on your personality. 

Elin
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Liam Edwards

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Jul 9, 2012, 2:56:58 PM7/9/12
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I hope so much that extensions are compatible with Joomla! 2.5, are compatible too with Joomla! 3.0 (and .1, and .5). 

Op maandag 9 juli 2012 19:50:00 UTC+1 schreef elin het volgende:

Mark Dexter

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Jul 9, 2012, 3:44:33 PM7/9/12
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I think we all agree that production sites happily running on 2.5 can
and should likely stay on 2.5 until 3.5.

I think the difference as Elin points out is for new sites, and it may
be a difference in style or tone more than a real difference in
substance.

I guess what I don't like about "bleeding edge" or "for developers" is
that it implies that there are a lot of bugs and the quality is not
good. It also seems to imply that we just throw software out there and
let our users debug it. I don't think that is accurate and it feels a
bit dismissive of all of the work that goes into maintaining a high
quality for each new version.

Obviously, any x.0 release from any software company is a bit suspect,
and Joomla is no exception. However, I think in many cases, 3.0 or 3.1
might be a great choice as Elin says for new sites or for sites that
need some of the new functionality.

I guess for me the bottom line is to express this in a way that
doesn't imply that the STS version has a lot of bugs or is of poor
quality. If we can do that, I'm probably happy.

Mark
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Victor Drover

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Jul 9, 2012, 3:49:15 PM7/9/12
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With all due respect Mark, evidence supports the notion that early releases are problematic for many, many end users. Joomla 1.5 and 1.6 were both pretty difficult to work with.

I think Steve is 100% correct to try to manage expectations and the verbiage he uses seems appropriate. If J3.0 is a smooth release among "developers" or whoever is targeted, then I think we might have some reason to start softening the language for J4.0.

-V

Mark Dexter

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Jul 9, 2012, 3:55:44 PM7/9/12
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Well, the point is that 3.0 should not be like 1.5 or 1.6. Recall that
1.6 had 3 years worth of changes and did not pretend to be remotely
backward compatible. Version 3.0 is an incremental release and,
although will have more b/c issues than 1.7 or 2.5, it should be a lot
more like 1.7 or 2.5 than it is like 1.5 or 1.6.

I think we are selling it short if we say it is not production quality.

In any case, the user community will form its own opinion of what 3.0
is like and who it is suitable for, once it is released.

Mark

brian teeman

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Jul 9, 2012, 4:00:14 PM7/9/12
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On Monday, 9 July 2012 20:55:44 UTC+1, Mark Dexter wrote:

In any case, the user community will form its own opinion of what 3.0
is like and who it is suitable for, once it is released.

Not if the initial marketing message gives a contrary message which is what the original posters were trying to clarify. 

Victor Drover

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Jul 9, 2012, 4:05:47 PM7/9/12
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i think i would prefer folks to be pleasantly surprised rather than unsuspectingly disappointed. After all, if 3.0 is super-awesome, the message can be changed. The same cannot be said if something goes wrong and the expectations are set too high. 

-V

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elin

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Jul 9, 2012, 4:30:14 PM7/9/12
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Actually tons of us were happily running 1.5 sites on 1.5 RC and 1.6 was also fine as long as you didn't need extensions or documentation and had the most common hosting environments.  For people coming from old versions change will always be hard which is why I would not recommend jumping in on a live site if you are used to the 2.5 backend--although it wasn't clear until this spring it is now basically certain that the back end will look different which means yet again you have to learn where they moved the salt. That's a very different kind of problem than a new user who doesn't have expectations about where things are.

I know Kyle is working hard on outreach to extension developers to get them J3 ready and having someone take on that job is absolutely one of the best improvements in the release process.  So my hope is that we are better than ever at having extensions ready. If they aren't using deprecated code and you're a professional site developer you can just go type 'Legacy' in yourself where needed. They may not blend in with the new back-end template in an attractive way, but they should work.


So ... the message should be J3.0 is an  strong, forward looking short term support release that will not contain all of the features that J3.5 or even J3.1 will contain.  Anyone should feel totally comfortable building a site with it but unless you are dying for a boot strap template or are so totally in love with the new admin UI that you havetohaveitrightthisinstant .. download a copy to install and play with by all means--especially if you are a Joomla professional-- but you might want to wait 2 months until the first planned maintenance release or 6 months until 3.1 to launch a site.   If you are a do it your selfer  and  you have reasonable tolerance for having to do updates and not being able to do what you want right away by all means go for it, you'll have 3 years of J3 and not have to migrate. This is the same message we had for 1.6 and 1.5. 

I'm not a web professional but if a release happens in Sept even if I had been working with the beta all through August I think I'd have a local install right away and start learning the changes and understanding new features and learning them well enough to teach a client to use them. I would think that by itself would take at least a month given that all the screen shots in any docs you have will have to be updated. 

Also when you speak of marketing let's be clear that there are at least 4 different markets that need to be thought about 

Webmasters who build and maintain their own sites
Professional site developers (who can be divided into those already using J and those new to J)
Extension developers (who we want to encourage to get with the bootstrap program, do the search and replacing that they have to do with class names, and stop using deprecated code.
Enterprise users who are committed to the LTS release and the 11.4 version of the Joomla Platform.

Their needs and worries are quite different. Let's make sure that we're giving the correct messages to each.  

Also please let's not forget to mention that users must have php 5.3.1  or higher to use J3 and InnoDB is required. In fact I suspect that those two facts will be the deciding factor for many people who will need to stick with 2.5. 

Elin
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>>>>>>>>> notify
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>>>>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------
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Alejandro Kurczyn

unread,
Jul 9, 2012, 10:29:17 PM7/9/12
to joomla-...@googlegroups.com
Hello all, this is my first post on the group and it is to add my 2 cents:  Most people would not know they have to "wait" or use other version than the latest, in fact many pages around the net recommend people to always install/update to the latest. If there is going to be a split between "stable" and "bleeding edge" that needs to be enforced by regular users, then the com_joomlaupdate view needs to NOT advertise 3.0.0 as an available update on 2.5 systems, and perhaps a "*notice:" should also be added to explain people from updating their systems and possibly breaking them.  This has serious/confusing implications for everybody and could lead to extensions being subject to an approval similar to what Firefox has, where they are "3.0" approved, but are marked broken/invalid when "4.0" comes up.

If anything, I think a "rollback" mechanism should be added to the update process to help people revert back when a "bad" update breaks their extensions. That in itself would be a welcome feature. The implementation doesn't look too difficult beyond making/restoring a ZIP of the old files and DB changes undoing.

-Alex


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Sam Moffatt

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Jul 10, 2012, 12:12:00 AM7/10/12
to joomla-...@googlegroups.com
Rollbacks are often easier said than done. We have enough problems
testing minor changes going forwards, testing database changes going
backwards from random releases in time particularly those that alter
table content (structure is usually much easier but has it's own
pitfalls) is going to be much more of a headache to test than going
forwards alone.

Cheers,

Sam Moffatt
http://pasamio.id.au


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Nick Savov

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Jul 10, 2012, 12:26:18 AM7/10/12
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How about "Joomla 3.0 Early Bird" ?

Kind regards,
Nick

elin

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Jul 10, 2012, 7:32:44 AM7/10/12
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3.0 is not bleeding edge and thre is already a system in place to show lts updates ... since going to 3.0 is technically not an update but a migration it is not going to send update notices.

Given that this is a list for CMS developers--people working on the CMS-- it's a reasonable assumption that everyone will look at the code or at least the current build before posting.

It already defaults to Long Term Support (reccomended)

Elin

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Andrew Eddie

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Jul 10, 2012, 8:03:19 PM7/10/12
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So, the way I see it is this is a typical organisational problem where Marketing needs to know how to spin what Engineering is building before it's even finished - not an unusual situation to be in.

For what it's worth I think the "message" should be, always, "upgrade if you can".  It's a buoyant way to present it (as opposed to "better wait till 3.5 because no way you can trust the community to get 3.0 right first time" ... even if we know there may be some truth to it), but it emphasises that there are caveats.  The key is to help people answer the "if you can" part.  To that end, Marketing needs to know when they can know what will block you from just upgrading, and closely related to that is how do I decide what to use for a new site (where, again, the message should be "always use the latest version if you can").  

I think it would be a crying shame to have a message like "wait till 3.5 comes *next year or later*".  That said, I have no issue with people waiting for 3.0.1 and also the updater needs to know have an "Are you sure?" prompt when it detects you are changing major version numbers (possibly with min. system requirement checks, e.g., your PHP is too old).

Anyway, the questions I'd address are:

A) Does my host meet the minimum specs?
B) Does a stock 2.5 upgrade to 3.0 without any drama (I'm in the admin, will it still work after I upgrade)?  
C) Will my custom 2.5 frontend template still work?  
D) Will be will my custom admin template still work?  
E) Will my custom extensions still work?

You should be able to answer A now but you aren't going to have a handle others until the beta's are shipped.  For now, in my opinion, all Marketing has to work with is the minimum specs, but that's better than nothing and still important to get out there early.

That's the user angle.  The developer angle, likewise, should be one of encouraging developers to upgrade to take advantage of new features and I'd be aiming more at what makes the Joomla CMS attractive as a foundation for custom projects.  The message should be about "getting up to date" (for example, PHP 5.3 and all the goodness that comes with that).  For the extension developers I think the key is incentivising, and the easiest way to do that is free promotion with updates about 3.0 (for example, once the Alpha or Beta ships, start listing the extensions that developers have tested and work).  A bit of reward for the effort they put in would go a long way (it's a win-win).

I also think Elin's right in that there are messages tailored for different market sectors - a one-size-fits-all approach probably isn't the best way to approach it anymore, if it ever was.  If you want to have a "wait for 3.5 message" anywhere, then that's for Enterprise Joomla (large complex websites that cost a lot to maintain, let alone tinker with).  But the central message should be Joomla 3 is coming and is for you (and here's a guide to let you know when you can and should upgrade ...).  Have the checks and balances in the software to lower the risk of a "bad experience".  So having marketing tags like "Joomla 3 for Site Owners", "Joomla 3 for Extension Developers", "Joomla 3 for Enterprise" and so on are probably something to throw into the mix (obviously the decision making information that extension dev's need is different from site owners/web masters, etc).

My 2c.

Regards,
Andrew Eddie

Mark Dexter

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Jul 10, 2012, 10:27:56 PM7/10/12
to joomla-...@googlegroups.com
@Andrew: a big +1. It's a question of suitability for a given purpose,
not a question of high quality software vs. low quality software. Both
the LTS and STS releases have their purposes and both are products
that we should be proud of and excited to promote to the wide world.
Mark
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Brad Gies

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Jul 11, 2012, 12:07:45 AM7/11/12
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I agree with everything Andrew except that the "Wait for 3.5" message
should be for Enterprise users PLUS any smaller site that doesn't have a
technical staff, and maybe can't afford to hire someone if something
breaks.

I definitely like the idea of letting people know what extensions are
available for a particular version (any chance the JED could be filtered
to just show extensions for a particular version?).

Brad.
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Sincerely,

Brad Gies
----------------------------------------------
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idailythought.com greenfarminvest.com
----------------------------------------------

Mark Dexter

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Jul 11, 2012, 12:12:55 AM7/11/12
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The JED already has compatibility in the advanced search. I could only
find the advanced search by starting a normal search. Perhaps it would
be good to have an obvious link for the advanced search? Mark

Beat

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Jul 11, 2012, 4:42:33 AM7/11/12
to Joomla! CMS Development
On Jul 10, 1:32 pm, elin <elin.war...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 3.0 is not bleeding edge and thre is already a system in place to show lts
> updates ... since going to 3.0 is technically not an update but a migration
> it is not going to send update notices.

I thought that at JAB12 session of updater workgroup, it was agreed
that 3.0 should/would be an update using the built-in updater
(selecting the STS updates path in settings instead the default LTS
updates path) and not a migration.

Was there a change since then ?

Best Regards,
Beat
http://www.joomlapolis.com/

Steve

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Jul 11, 2012, 9:05:07 AM7/11/12
to joomla-...@googlegroups.com
Thanks for your feedback everyone.

We'll have a go at creating some materials that say something like this:
  • Joomla 2.5 is the LTS and the recommended version for people wanting a lot of extensions, templates etc.
  • Joomla 3 is the STS. It's a great version but perhaps best suited for developers and / or people wanting new, more straightforward sites. 
We'll make sure to distribute this materials before launch, particularly to the dev team, to make sure they're happy with the message.

We can then reassess after launch. When the upgrade / migration is confirmed to be smooth, we can start to encourage people to upgrade, whether that happens at 3.0.1 or 3.1 or 3.5.

Beat

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Jul 11, 2012, 9:26:39 AM7/11/12
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A picture being worth 1000 words, probably a release-cycles pictures like the one used by Ubuntu here will certainly help people understand the meanings of STS and LTS:


Typically, for productive web-servers, you do not use STS, as most hosting panel software don't support them, and you don't want to upgrade too often your fine-running security-maintained LTS-based server.


Best Regards,
Beat

Mark Dexter

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Jul 11, 2012, 11:24:57 AM7/11/12
to joomla-...@googlegroups.com
One typical real-life scenario could be something like this:
1. Company X is starting a new big site that will take some time to
develop and get going. They choose version 3.0 figuring that it will
actually be 3.1 or maybe even 3.5 by they time the site is deployed.
They want to be on a current version when the site is deployed, or
maybe they need some 3.x functionality.
2. Once 3.5 is available, they upgrade to that and then stay on the
LTS version going forward, since they are happy with the functionality
they have.
3. They upgrade from 3.5 to 4.5, 4.5 to 5.5, etc.

Mark
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Matt Thomas

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Jul 11, 2012, 11:30:21 AM7/11/12
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FWIW, I can add that this is a very real scenario that I experienced with a client, and it worked out great. The only issue we had was availability of extensions when we began.

Best,

Matt Thomas
Founder betweenbrain™
Phone: 203.632.9322
Twitter: @betweenbrain

elin

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Jul 11, 2012, 10:36:27 PM7/11/12
to joomla-...@googlegroups.com
Beat,

If you are only using the Joomla core it will be an upgrade. 

The fact is that Bootstrap and the new core outputs are  going to break many templates plus any extensions that have not done the search and replace to change the class names they extend from as needed or that use JParameter or anything else like that will not work.  So yes if you have only used extensions and templates that rigorously follow the recommended practice of testing the active trunk weekly, not using deprecated code, following the development list for information on how to maintain compatibility between 2.5 and 3.0 and follow that advice,  and as recommended here working with  Kyle's branch it is going to be a migration. And even some extensions that do follow all that advice will inevitably get blind sided by something.
 As a webmaster you will have to assess the extensions you use and make the decision on when to upgrade based on that. If your extensions are not upgraded you have to wait or switch to different extensions. Personally if an extension has reasonable development activity even if they are not ready on the release date I would give them a month or so even if it was extremely important to me to update to 3.0 because the pain of switching extensions is a lot worse than that of waiting a month or two. That's my plan for my sites, but obviously everyone has their own decisions to make. 



Elin

Beat

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Jul 12, 2012, 4:24:01 AM7/12/12
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Elin,

That simply means that Joomla core and extensions developers should communicate more on what's needed to make this a as smooth as possible upgrade !

Extension developers should have the possibility to have an extension update that runs on 2.5 AND 3.0 BEFORE joomla 3.0 stable is released. At least the major extensions developers.

Right now, 3.0 is a moving target for extension developers. Branches change, a lot of things still change and are broken. Thus, 3.0 is not usable as a reference platform to develop and troubleshoot bugs in their extension.

Once 3.0 has reached beta stage (and stabilizes), it will be time to start testing.

Also in preparatory work: we need to make it possible for an extension to run on 2.5.latest AND 3.0 by bakwards or forward compatibilities. Otherwise having the core being an upgrade and extensions planed as migrations will be a nightmare for webmasters (at least for the 90+% which are not a bit savy in doing their due diligence before applying upgrades).

Maybe there is a chance to make it happen this time ?

Suggested path:
1) Review compatibility strategy of API, templates and HTML outputs and fix what needs to be fixed to make it smoother
2) When the time for testing comes, just create a forum, email all popular registered JED developers to invite them to a special testing group. Continue informing by email all JED developers as 3.0 RC maturity comes.
3) plan enough time in beta and RC (way too short in past)
4) Listen to feedbacks from extension developers and apply good suggestions

In two word: Reach-out & Cooperate :-)

Best Regards,
Beat

Amy Stephen

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Jul 12, 2012, 7:56:05 AM7/12/12
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Beat - If the discussion started to focus on improving cooperation and information sharing with extension developers, then it would detract from the discussion on formulating a marketing message for 3.0 and differentiating target audiences for the two release cycles. Might be best to start a new thread so that this discussion can stay on topic.

Beat

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Jul 12, 2012, 8:16:12 AM7/12/12
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Thank you Amy, but I didn't notice that this was only about Joomla upgrade/migration. And if you don't care about extensions in such an upgrade marketing text, I do understand that it is your point of view, and I respect it as such, but peacefully agree to disagree with you. :-)

I still think that when speaking ("marketingwise") about upgrade/migration of Joomla, special attention needs to be given to extensions and to its Community of webmasters of which a good part have also extensions installed.

And that certainly also implies a bit of code: E.g. checking in the auto-updater XML files of installed components IF a given Joomla release is supported BEFORE offering to upgrade Joomla itself, and thus breaking the site. At very least a warning message about components needing upgrade too (and its availability) should be displayed imho.

Regarding the important cooperation discussion you mentioned, I have already mentioned a way to start separately such a discussion, but I think that it's really the task of the Joomla PLT to do so. I have started such a discussion session at JAB12, there are a dozen persons who offered to help PLT in this regard and gave their contacts, and we are looking forward to the PLT's replies on this discussion. Definitely not the subject of this thread, fully agreed on that part (and end of discussion on that part in this thread).

Amy Stephen

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Jul 12, 2012, 8:43:52 AM7/12/12
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On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 7:16 AM, Beat <bea...@gmail.com> wrote:

I still think that when speaking ("marketingwise") about upgrade/migration of Joomla, special attention needs to be given to extensions and to its Community of webmasters of which a good part have also extensions installed.

Most definitely agree.
 
And that certainly also implies a bit of code: E.g. checking in the auto-updater XML files of installed components IF a given Joomla release is supported BEFORE offering to upgrade Joomla itself, and thus breaking the site. At very least a warning message about components needing upgrade too (and its availability) should be displayed imho.

That would be a nice feature, for sure. If there was something of this nature built into the installer (and developers knew what to do to tap into it), it certainly would be something worth noting in the marketing material as a way to determine whether or not a user can upgrade and if their extensions were ready. Love it.

Do you know whether or not this idea has been proposed as a feature request? If I understand process correctly, that's the first step towards getting something considered. Also, it always helps if code is included and a developer stays involved and proactive with their feature requests, responding to everyone's feedback on the tracker and sort of nudging things along. I know you share code, so that's not a negative comment, just encouragement. This idea has a lot of potential, for sure, and it needs a developer to champion it.
 

Regarding the important cooperation discussion you mentioned, I have already mentioned a way to start separately such a discussion, but I think that it's really the task of the Joomla PLT to do so. I have started such a discussion session at JAB12, there are a dozen persons who offered to help PLT in this regard and gave their contacts, and we are looking forward to the PLT's replies on this discussion. Definitely not the subject of this thread, fully agreed on that part (and end of discussion on that part in this thread).

Thanks Beat. Probably doesn't matter who kicks the discussion off, but I'll leave that to you. Much benefit to working in this area, rebuilding involvement, etc., look forward to seeing that move forward too.


Best Regards,
Beat


On Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:56:05 PM UTC+2, Amy Stephen wrote:
Beat - If the discussion started to focus on improving cooperation and information sharing with extension developers, then it would detract from the discussion on formulating a marketing message for 3.0 and differentiating target audiences for the two release cycles. Might be best to start a new thread so that this discussion can stay on topic.

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Nick Savov

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Jul 12, 2012, 9:04:01 AM7/12/12
to joomla-...@googlegroups.com
Hi Beat,

3.0.0_Alpha1 will hopefully and likely be released today. If not, it will
be released very soon.

Alpha1 will contain only the new platform version 12.2 but not new
features. This release is targeted to third-party extension developers to
test their extensions with the new 12.2 platform.

Also, with the release of Alpha1 there will also be an announcement for
developers concerning:
1) Tentative Schedule for Joomla 3
2) What Developers Need to Know About Joomla 3
3) Ways to Contribute

Furthermore, you can join the new JTesters (
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/jtesters ) group, which is a group
for announcing Joomla test packages, release dates, and other relevant
information regarding testing pre-releases.

Hopefully all these things (as well as other up-coming activities) will
contribute to making Joomla 3 a major success for everyone! The PLT, in
collaboration with some volunteers to do *some* of the grunt work (me
being one of those grunts), is working hard on ways to get the development
community more involved and up-to-date on the late happenings with Joomla
3.

Hope this helps! :)

Kind regards,
Nick
>> maintain compatibility between 2.5 and 3.0 and *follow that advice*,
>> and
>> as recommended here working with Kyle's branch it is going to be a
>> migration. *And even some extensions that do follow all that advice will
>> inevitably get blind sided by something.*
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Amy Stephen

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Jul 12, 2012, 9:18:43 AM7/12/12
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Nick +1,000,000 - been really impressed with your "grunt" work. Thanks much.

Nick Savov

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Jul 12, 2012, 9:35:08 AM7/12/12
to joomla-...@googlegroups.com
You're welcome! It's definitely been a team effort, though, with
contributions from many people in the community. I'm extremely impressed
with how many people (both leadership and nonleadership) are eager and
willing to help out.

For example, the upcoming developer announcement was created on a Google
Doc with collaboration from probably over 30 people whether that be
writing, editing, proofreading, etc. :)

Those types of activities make it fun being a part of the Joomla community
and helping out in Joomla! :)

By the way, if anyone wants to help out with developer outreach or testing
outreach, please email me privately and I'll get you hooked up.

Kind regards,
Nick

Beat

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Jul 12, 2012, 10:15:38 AM7/12/12
to Joomla! CMS Development
Nick,

Thanks for organizing the work and the heads-up. Joined the other
google group.

You should contact Andrea also, she has around a dozen business cards
of people eager to contribute to the testing/bugs/squad/tracker/
cooperation process that were in the JAB12 discussion (recorded here
http://jandbeyond.org/programme/sessions/session/session/96-should-i-contribute-code-to-joomla-or-do-my-laundry-and-taxes.html
) . Maybe she could email all of those persons with cc to you to get
this started ?

Let's continue the discussion in the other group when it's up :-)

Best Regards,
Beat


On 12 July, 15:35, "Nick Savov" <n...@iowawebcompany.com> wrote:
> You're welcome!  It's definitely been a team effort, though, with
> contributions from many people in the community. I'm extremely impressed
> with how many people (both leadership and nonleadership) are eager and
> willing to help out.
>
> For example, the upcoming developer announcement was created on a Google
> Doc with collaboration from probably over 30 people whether that be
> writing, editing, proofreading, etc. :)
>
> Those types of activities make it fun being a part of the Joomla community
> and helping out in Joomla! :)
>
> By the way, if anyone wants to help out with developer outreach or testing
> outreach, please email me privately and I'll get you hooked up.
>
> Kind regards,
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Nick +1,000,000 - been really impressed with your "grunt" work. Thanks
> > much.
>
> > On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Nick Savov <n...@iowawebcompany.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >> Hi Beat,
>
> >> 3.0.0_Alpha1 will hopefully and likely be released today.  If not, it
> >> will
> >> be released very soon.
>
> >> Alpha1 will contain only the new platform version 12.2 but not new
> >> features. This release is targeted to third-party extension developers
> >> to
> >> test their extensions with the new 12.2 platform.
>
> >> Also, with the release of Alpha1 there will also be an announcement for
> >> developers concerning:
> >> 1) Tentative Schedule for Joomla 3
> >> 2) What Developers Need to Know About Joomla 3
> >> 3) Ways to Contribute
>
> >> Furthermore, you can join the new JTesters (
> >>https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/jtesters) group, which is a

Andrea Tarr at Tarr Consulting

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Jul 12, 2012, 11:53:27 AM7/12/12
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Beat-

I didn't forget you guys! I passed on all the email addresses to Nick last month. But I'll double check that he got them and that we email those people about the announcement directly.

Thanks,
Andy

Andrea Tarr

Tarr Consulting





Nick Savov

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Jul 12, 2012, 7:44:18 PM7/12/12
to joomla-...@googlegroups.com
You're welcome, Beat!

Thanks! Andrea sent me the list and I was able to email them this evening.
I'm eager to see their contributions; exciting! :)

Also, thanks for the link to the video (I'll have to watch it soon)

Kind regards,
Nick
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