Bow Sprit Launching Line Question
145 views
Skip to first unread message
C-man
May 27, 2010, 9:14:56 PM5/27/10
to Johnson 18 One Design -2010
Today, after a lovely broad reach, the sprit would not go back into
the tube. After some gentle tugging, I could hear a line snap and the
sprit came back into the tube, alas, the launching line which is
pulled to deploy the sprit had broken. Further examination on the dock
revealed that the frayed line had snapped right by their attachment
point to the sprit and had completely come out of (what I believe to
be) the cheek block half way up the tube.
So here is the dilemma: How can I thread a new line through that block
in the middle of the tube. Is there any way one can reasonably access
this or is there a trick of the trade of how to accomplish threading a
new line through it?
I did figure out how to get the sprit pole entirely out of the tube
in order to have better vision of the situation but man, what next?
Any help would be much appreciated.
Next week will be the first race of the season and I'd hate to race
sans chute.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Chris
the tube. After some gentle tugging, I could hear a line snap and the
sprit came back into the tube, alas, the launching line which is
pulled to deploy the sprit had broken. Further examination on the dock
revealed that the frayed line had snapped right by their attachment
point to the sprit and had completely come out of (what I believe to
be) the cheek block half way up the tube.
So here is the dilemma: How can I thread a new line through that block
in the middle of the tube. Is there any way one can reasonably access
this or is there a trick of the trade of how to accomplish threading a
new line through it?
I did figure out how to get the sprit pole entirely out of the tube
in order to have better vision of the situation but man, what next?
Any help would be much appreciated.
Next week will be the first race of the season and I'd hate to race
sans chute.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Chris
PPYC
May 28, 2010, 9:35:20 AM5/28/10
to Johnson 18 One Design -2010
I will try to get a look today but, I have an small (30ft)
electricion's fish tape that I use for routing hard to get stuff.
Could the block be removed, lines re-installed and then screwed back
on? Drop a note to Brian (5*) as he has a handle on all things
Johnson!
electricion's fish tape that I use for routing hard to get stuff.
Could the block be removed, lines re-installed and then screwed back
on? Drop a note to Brian (5*) as he has a handle on all things
Johnson!
Rick Paullin
May 28, 2010, 9:37:39 AM5/28/10
to Johnson 18 One Design -2010
I've had that happen - not once but twice! Each time, it's taken me
3-4 hours to fish a line through that cheek block using this method.
I'd love to hear about a better way if anyone has a trick . . .
1. cut a piece of wire coat hanger about 6" long and secure it to the
end of a stiff pole (like a broom handle).
2. bend the wire 90 degrees about 2" from the end, and test to make
sure if fits through the block.
3. cut a piece of whipping twine (or other stiff thread) about 12"
long and tie a loop in end of it (1" diameter).
4. tape the twine loop to the wire with a single small piece of
masking tape (so it can be easily broken free by tugging on the loop).
5. test to make sure the twine loop fits through the block and sticks
out into the middle of the bowsprit tube.
6. tie or tape a long string to the other end of the twine (electrical
tape lengthwise will bend through the block okay).
7. use the pole to get the twine loop through the block and secure the
pole so it doesn't move around in the cockpit.
8. get an electrical fish tape or something with a hook on the end of
it (like romex or another pole with a wire on the end of it).
9. go fishing!
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
- Rick
3-4 hours to fish a line through that cheek block using this method.
I'd love to hear about a better way if anyone has a trick . . .
1. cut a piece of wire coat hanger about 6" long and secure it to the
end of a stiff pole (like a broom handle).
2. bend the wire 90 degrees about 2" from the end, and test to make
sure if fits through the block.
3. cut a piece of whipping twine (or other stiff thread) about 12"
long and tie a loop in end of it (1" diameter).
4. tape the twine loop to the wire with a single small piece of
masking tape (so it can be easily broken free by tugging on the loop).
5. test to make sure the twine loop fits through the block and sticks
out into the middle of the bowsprit tube.
6. tie or tape a long string to the other end of the twine (electrical
tape lengthwise will bend through the block okay).
7. use the pole to get the twine loop through the block and secure the
pole so it doesn't move around in the cockpit.
8. get an electrical fish tape or something with a hook on the end of
it (like romex or another pole with a wire on the end of it).
9. go fishing!
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
- Rick
C-man
May 28, 2010, 10:25:44 AM5/28/10
to Johnson 18 One Design -2010
Thanks Rick!
I've been thinking about this like a puppie with a slipper. Your
description sounds similar to what I started to envision. I was hoping
there would be an easier way... I will give it a try tomorrow. I'll
report back! Wish me luck!
You'd think that the designer had allowed for a better access...
Even though, still love the boat!
~~~_/)~~~ Chris
I've been thinking about this like a puppie with a slipper. Your
description sounds similar to what I started to envision. I was hoping
there would be an easier way... I will give it a try tomorrow. I'll
report back! Wish me luck!
You'd think that the designer had allowed for a better access...
Even though, still love the boat!
~~~_/)~~~ Chris
Five Cubed Skipper
May 28, 2010, 10:28:44 AM5/28/10
to Johnson 18 One Design -2010
Chris, that's a bummer
I broke my pole at the end of 2008 season and had to rig the new one
after taking the old one out and sending to forte carbon fiber to
build me a new one.- They did a great job as far as I know…
I didn't have the same problem as you, initially, BUT my stupidity led
me to the point where you are.
I failed to attach an appropriate string to the butt of the extension
line and pulled it out of the block that's mounted to the boat inside
the square portion of the pole sleeve. SEE STAR ON MY DIAGRAM- JUST
UPLOADED
(N.B.- for those of you who have not broken the line but may be
replacing it… THE LINE IS NOT LONG ENOUGH TO PULL THE POLE ALL THE WAY
OUT of the sleeve, WITHOUT PULLING IT OUT OF THE TURNING BLOCK MOUNTED
IN THE FORWARD PORTION OF THE SLEEVE – so once you untie the stopper
knot in the pinch cleat end of the extension line, make sure you
immediately attach at least 10 feet of string to the end of the line…
to avoid having to do what is described below. )
Unfortunately this is a one man job… there simply isn’t room for
anyone else to help you- well except for perhaps feeding the line to
you one you get it hooked. You need a flash light, fishing hook
lashed to a dowel rod or pole- of sufficient length (probably 7 feet
would make it easier than my 6 foot dowel), some smaller fibrous line
(like a clothes line) rigging or electrical tape, whipping twine (I
didn’t use it but you might want to try several feet of electrical
wire- that you can bend into a hook at the end) , the new extension
line and lots of patience- (or several 6 packs of your favorite
beer). I am not a rigger, but a rigger at a spar maker probably has a
tool that makes this job much easier.
First, Unhook the bungee cord if you have bungee attached (it’s not
too hard to re run bungee by taking the cap off the pole threading it
through the pole, through the loop in the cap and then back down the
pole- but do it after you do the extension line install described
below.)
I started by feeding the clothesline through the hole in the furler
well under the furler drum. I then used a fishing hook lashed (with
fishing line) to the end of a dowel rod to pull the line down and out
the square end of the sleeve in the boat. Once that was run I ran the
butt end of the new extension line (after taping it to the clothes
line) back to the hole in the furler well, carefully tugged it through
and tied a stopper knot in the new extension line. Then run the other
end of the new extension line through the butt end of the pole
straight through both blocks . Set the pole aside for now. (Make sure
you don’t somehow unthread the tack line…It’s easy to thread with the
help of gravity when the pole is out and you can simply turn it
vertically, but not so much when the pole is in its sleeve in the
boat.)
The next step by far was the worst…. I was able to run the tip of the
clothes line through the block in the sleeve (See star on diagram
again). This was after several sweaty hours of peering with flash
light and coaxing with my fish hooked dowel. You could try taping
the said electrical wire to the clothes line, to see if you could run
it through the block easier. The key is that you want to use line or
wire that is smaller in diameter than the extension line to get it fed
through. I don’t know how you would gasp the electrical wire once it
was through the block, which is why I stayed with using a fiber based
clothes line that I could set the point of the fishhook into when the
tip of it appeared out the other side of the block. Several times, I
had to pull the clothes line entirely back out and try to form it in
to the correct shape (a curve at the end is needed). You will get a
stiff neck and sore forearms and shoulders…well at least I did. Trying
to hold the clothes line, pole and flashlight with only two hands is
main problem (… a small flashlight that you could set in the sleeve
and position to light the block is probably a good bet- I had a mag-
light that was a bit unwieldy) . Also I recall that you must be very
gentle in coaxing the line- twisting and guiding with hook . Make sure
that the clothes line is free to run into the sleeve, once you get the
tip hooked. Gently pull the threaded clothes line out. Drink a whole
beer ( …well you don’t have to but I did after I got the thing
threaded.)
MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVE NOT FOULD THE EXTENSION LINE ANYWHERE- so you
don’t have to un run it to fix any knots. Once you get the clothes
line run through the block in the sleeve, attach the end of it to the
end of your pole extension line- which is coming out of the butt end
of the pole… I actually used whipping twine and tied the two ends
together- and then taped over top- though not too much tape since the
assembly has to bend to get through the block. (It was probably over
kill, but after what I’d just gone through I wasn’t taking chances).
NOW is the time that you have to actually put the pole into the
sleeve, at least the forward tip of it needs to get loaded… depending
on the length of the new extension line, you might have to slide the
pole into the smaller rounded portion of the sleeve too. Gently pull
the clothes line back through and feed the new extension line up and
around the turning block in the sleeve. Once you get the extension
line around the block and back out in the cockpit, cut the clothes
line off and run it through the pinch cleat, I suggest that you tie a
stopper.
Running the bungee isn’t hard since you can run it tie one end to the
loop at the bottom of square sleeve, then tension it, hold the tension
(with a square knot- or even a sheepshank tied at the cap) and then
run it back down , tie that end and then return to shake out the
stopping knot at the cap, put the cap back in and tighten the screw.
At this point, others may have better ideas, but you’ve read how I
did mine… All I can say is good luck!
-Brian
I broke my pole at the end of 2008 season and had to rig the new one
after taking the old one out and sending to forte carbon fiber to
build me a new one.- They did a great job as far as I know…
I didn't have the same problem as you, initially, BUT my stupidity led
me to the point where you are.
I failed to attach an appropriate string to the butt of the extension
line and pulled it out of the block that's mounted to the boat inside
the square portion of the pole sleeve. SEE STAR ON MY DIAGRAM- JUST
UPLOADED
(N.B.- for those of you who have not broken the line but may be
replacing it… THE LINE IS NOT LONG ENOUGH TO PULL THE POLE ALL THE WAY
OUT of the sleeve, WITHOUT PULLING IT OUT OF THE TURNING BLOCK MOUNTED
IN THE FORWARD PORTION OF THE SLEEVE – so once you untie the stopper
knot in the pinch cleat end of the extension line, make sure you
immediately attach at least 10 feet of string to the end of the line…
to avoid having to do what is described below. )
Unfortunately this is a one man job… there simply isn’t room for
anyone else to help you- well except for perhaps feeding the line to
you one you get it hooked. You need a flash light, fishing hook
lashed to a dowel rod or pole- of sufficient length (probably 7 feet
would make it easier than my 6 foot dowel), some smaller fibrous line
(like a clothes line) rigging or electrical tape, whipping twine (I
didn’t use it but you might want to try several feet of electrical
wire- that you can bend into a hook at the end) , the new extension
line and lots of patience- (or several 6 packs of your favorite
beer). I am not a rigger, but a rigger at a spar maker probably has a
tool that makes this job much easier.
First, Unhook the bungee cord if you have bungee attached (it’s not
too hard to re run bungee by taking the cap off the pole threading it
through the pole, through the loop in the cap and then back down the
pole- but do it after you do the extension line install described
below.)
I started by feeding the clothesline through the hole in the furler
well under the furler drum. I then used a fishing hook lashed (with
fishing line) to the end of a dowel rod to pull the line down and out
the square end of the sleeve in the boat. Once that was run I ran the
butt end of the new extension line (after taping it to the clothes
line) back to the hole in the furler well, carefully tugged it through
and tied a stopper knot in the new extension line. Then run the other
end of the new extension line through the butt end of the pole
straight through both blocks . Set the pole aside for now. (Make sure
you don’t somehow unthread the tack line…It’s easy to thread with the
help of gravity when the pole is out and you can simply turn it
vertically, but not so much when the pole is in its sleeve in the
boat.)
The next step by far was the worst…. I was able to run the tip of the
clothes line through the block in the sleeve (See star on diagram
again). This was after several sweaty hours of peering with flash
light and coaxing with my fish hooked dowel. You could try taping
the said electrical wire to the clothes line, to see if you could run
it through the block easier. The key is that you want to use line or
wire that is smaller in diameter than the extension line to get it fed
through. I don’t know how you would gasp the electrical wire once it
was through the block, which is why I stayed with using a fiber based
clothes line that I could set the point of the fishhook into when the
tip of it appeared out the other side of the block. Several times, I
had to pull the clothes line entirely back out and try to form it in
to the correct shape (a curve at the end is needed). You will get a
stiff neck and sore forearms and shoulders…well at least I did. Trying
to hold the clothes line, pole and flashlight with only two hands is
main problem (… a small flashlight that you could set in the sleeve
and position to light the block is probably a good bet- I had a mag-
light that was a bit unwieldy) . Also I recall that you must be very
gentle in coaxing the line- twisting and guiding with hook . Make sure
that the clothes line is free to run into the sleeve, once you get the
tip hooked. Gently pull the threaded clothes line out. Drink a whole
beer ( …well you don’t have to but I did after I got the thing
threaded.)
MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVE NOT FOULD THE EXTENSION LINE ANYWHERE- so you
don’t have to un run it to fix any knots. Once you get the clothes
line run through the block in the sleeve, attach the end of it to the
end of your pole extension line- which is coming out of the butt end
of the pole… I actually used whipping twine and tied the two ends
together- and then taped over top- though not too much tape since the
assembly has to bend to get through the block. (It was probably over
kill, but after what I’d just gone through I wasn’t taking chances).
NOW is the time that you have to actually put the pole into the
sleeve, at least the forward tip of it needs to get loaded… depending
on the length of the new extension line, you might have to slide the
pole into the smaller rounded portion of the sleeve too. Gently pull
the clothes line back through and feed the new extension line up and
around the turning block in the sleeve. Once you get the extension
line around the block and back out in the cockpit, cut the clothes
line off and run it through the pinch cleat, I suggest that you tie a
stopper.
Running the bungee isn’t hard since you can run it tie one end to the
loop at the bottom of square sleeve, then tension it, hold the tension
(with a square knot- or even a sheepshank tied at the cap) and then
run it back down , tie that end and then return to shake out the
stopping knot at the cap, put the cap back in and tighten the screw.
At this point, others may have better ideas, but you’ve read how I
did mine… All I can say is good luck!
-Brian
C-man
May 28, 2010, 2:10:16 PM5/28/10
to Johnson 18 One Design -2010
WOW! what an ordeal?!
If I had known what I know now, I would have examined the condition of
this line on a regular basis.
NOTE TO SELF: Examine launching line at least 2x per season.
I have not found your diagram yet.
I'll keep looking!
C.
If I had known what I know now, I would have examined the condition of
this line on a regular basis.
NOTE TO SELF: Examine launching line at least 2x per season.
I have not found your diagram yet.
I'll keep looking!
C.
C-man
May 28, 2010, 2:25:44 PM5/28/10
to Johnson 18 One Design -2010
I did find your diagram.
My pole does not have the two blocks in the aft end shown in your pic.
On my boat, the pole launching (extension) line seems to simply come
back around the turning block and then run through a small hole near
the aft of the pole where it is then secured with a figure-8 or other
stopper knot inside the pole. I suspect that the trouble started right
there (and could easily have been examined had I looked for it) since
there must a some abrasion each time the pole is deployed.
Thanks for your help!
My pole does not have the two blocks in the aft end shown in your pic.
On my boat, the pole launching (extension) line seems to simply come
back around the turning block and then run through a small hole near
the aft of the pole where it is then secured with a figure-8 or other
stopper knot inside the pole. I suspect that the trouble started right
there (and could easily have been examined had I looked for it) since
there must a some abrasion each time the pole is deployed.
Thanks for your help!
Rick Paullin
May 29, 2010, 12:58:09 PM5/29/10
to Johnson 18 One Design -2010
C - I'm surprised your pole doesn't have the two recessed blocks in
the aft end. I wonder if JBW stopped installing them on later hulls.
The main difference is that you have a 1:1 system and other boats have
a 2:1 advantage. Do you have any trouble extending the pole?
You could probably add the blocks to your pole, but Brian's
description makes it seem pretty daunting to think about pulling the
line through the hole at the bow. I wonder if a thin piece of lead
weight on the end of a piece of whipping twine would do the trick,
allowing gravity to do the work of getting the twine from the bow
downhill to the cockpit. You could also tip the trailer up to
increase the slope.
Good luck today!
- Rick
the aft end. I wonder if JBW stopped installing them on later hulls.
The main difference is that you have a 1:1 system and other boats have
a 2:1 advantage. Do you have any trouble extending the pole?
You could probably add the blocks to your pole, but Brian's
description makes it seem pretty daunting to think about pulling the
line through the hole at the bow. I wonder if a thin piece of lead
weight on the end of a piece of whipping twine would do the trick,
allowing gravity to do the work of getting the twine from the bow
downhill to the cockpit. You could also tip the trailer up to
increase the slope.
Good luck today!
- Rick
Glenn Harmon
May 29, 2010, 3:53:27 PM5/29/10
to johnson-18...@googlegroups.com
I do not remember having a second block in my bow pole either.... I do not have trouble getting the pole out either. I am hull 141. Not sure where I fall in the age group though.
Glenn
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Johnson 18 One Design -2010" group.
To post to this group, send email to johnson-18...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to johnson-18-one-d...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/johnson-18-one-design?hl=en.
C-man
May 29, 2010, 6:09:56 PM5/29/10
to Johnson 18 One Design -2010
Okay! After 90 minutes of grueling contortions, 2 rods with varying
types of hook, rod with bent wire and twine loop loosely attached, I
did finally get the twine threaded through the block and retrieved
into the cockpit. I tied the new (thinner) launching line to the twine
(with tape for extra security) and was finally able to re-install the
pole.
Frankly, this was a downright obnoxious job. I'd like a word with Mr.
Martin.
And yea, it IS a simple 1:1 (no blocks) and now that I work with a
somewhat thinner line. the pole launches very easily. Obviously
without purchase, there is less line to pull.
I got an early start at 8:00 (so no beer to lubricate the effort) and
actually had the boat ready at 10:00 for three races today - nice
winds.
Thanks to everyone for your input and encouragement.
This brings me to a new problem... see my post on shroud replacement.
THANKS ~~~_/)~~~ Chris
types of hook, rod with bent wire and twine loop loosely attached, I
did finally get the twine threaded through the block and retrieved
into the cockpit. I tied the new (thinner) launching line to the twine
(with tape for extra security) and was finally able to re-install the
pole.
Frankly, this was a downright obnoxious job. I'd like a word with Mr.
Martin.
And yea, it IS a simple 1:1 (no blocks) and now that I work with a
somewhat thinner line. the pole launches very easily. Obviously
without purchase, there is less line to pull.
I got an early start at 8:00 (so no beer to lubricate the effort) and
actually had the boat ready at 10:00 for three races today - nice
winds.
Thanks to everyone for your input and encouragement.
This brings me to a new problem... see my post on shroud replacement.
THANKS ~~~_/)~~~ Chris
Rick Paullin
May 30, 2010, 9:28:11 AM5/30/10
to Johnson 18 One Design -2010
C - Nice job! You must be glad you were able to get it done quickly
enough to get out on the water before the races started.
Sometime during the production run, it sounds like JBW figured out
they didn't need the 2:1 advantage and removed the blocks from the
pole to simplify the installation. Early Annapolis boat numbers are
#125 for Brian and #132 for me, both of which are 1994 hulls. Glenn's
boat is #141 and he doesn't have them, so I'm guessing they made the
change in 1995.
Now you've got me wondering if I even need the extra purchase. You're
right - quite a bit of line gets pulled extending the pole and it's
always been very easy to pull. Removing 8 feet of line from inside
the tube and getting rid of the blocks would have to reduce some of
the friction. I may try out the 1:1 system this summer and see how it
works.
- Rick
enough to get out on the water before the races started.
Sometime during the production run, it sounds like JBW figured out
they didn't need the 2:1 advantage and removed the blocks from the
pole to simplify the installation. Early Annapolis boat numbers are
#125 for Brian and #132 for me, both of which are 1994 hulls. Glenn's
boat is #141 and he doesn't have them, so I'm guessing they made the
change in 1995.
Now you've got me wondering if I even need the extra purchase. You're
right - quite a bit of line gets pulled extending the pole and it's
always been very easy to pull. Removing 8 feet of line from inside
the tube and getting rid of the blocks would have to reduce some of
the friction. I may try out the 1:1 system this summer and see how it
works.
- Rick
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages