overtime and job hunt

[koczyslaw bydlak]

I was always lucky and never did any unpaid overtime. however I heard
some horror stories about it from co-workers (one guy had unpaid
overtime every day for half a year, because ... whatever). I do know
that my luck will run out one day. I'm very assertive about doing
overtime (maybe I'm overreacting, but it doesn't matter), so if I was
forced to do it I would most likely quit the job or at least slow down
and did other thing at work (maybe even play flash games).

I heard that some companies expect you to do more since you are paid
more.

How can you detect if company you are interviewing for do overtimes?
one way be to just ask them, but they can lie (I do know some people
that were lied to on interviews) or see you as not a team player since
you ask about it (overtime does happen in normal companies, but its
very rear).

[Robert Casto]

There are a number of websites where you can do research about a company. One is GlassDoor.com I believe. I always research a company before joining up.

As for overtime stories, I worked with a bunch of consultants that were doing 12-14 hour days all the time and working over the weekend. I asked him why he did that and his answer was that there were 10 people willing to take his job if he ever quit. He worked for Witpro and was Indian. Most of the teams I was working with were from that company and all were working crazy long hours. But if they don't want to do it, the company has an easy time finding others who want to make the money and so they quietly do it.

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Robert Casto
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[Ricky Clarkson]

"Do you provide VPN access for when someone needs to do some work out
of hours?" would be a good opening question on that.

I need to start asking that one, as I'd much rather have VPN than not,
though of course I'd rather not be forced into unpaid overtime on a
regular basis.

[Cédric Beust ♔]

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 5:50 PM, Ricky Clarkson <ricky.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

"Do you provide VPN access for when someone needs to do some work out
of hours?" would be a good opening question on that.

This is indeed the best way to ask the question. It hints that you might be working overtime or outside business hours while you may be discreetly enquiring about working remotely during the day. Very crafty :-)

-- 

Cédric

[Ricky Clarkson]

That's quite pleasant from the perspective of the company I work for,
who doesn't do that. We steal contracts from such Indian companies as
we don't have the high staff turnover that comes with treating people
like crap.

[Robert Casto]

Very nice. I'll have to keep that one in mind. Most of the time the excuse I hear has to do with security and that they can't have consultants working off site accessing the servers and code and what not. 

2011/11/23 Cédric Beust ♔ <ced...@beust.com>

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[Ricky Clarkson]

My current client has the same restriction on consultants, though I can take the code home on the laptop they provided. I don't think it's always about security, but often about the battle between employees and contractors.

In the original context I thought we were talking about employment rather than consulting though.

---

From: Robert Casto <casto....@gmail.com>

Sender: java...@googlegroups.com

Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 23:29:40 -0500

To: <java...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: java...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [The Java Posse] overtime and job hunt

[Robert Casto]

I was just saying that it was the reason I heard all the time. I really think it has to do with management style. Newer and more progressive companies are more flexible in this regard. Older companies tend to stick with tradition or see working at home as a benefit. There are places where security is a big deal and it is important to recognize that. In those situations there is no possibility of working from home.

[opinali]

On Thursday, November 24, 2011 2:23:07 PM UTC-5, rcasto wrote:

I was just saying that it was the reason I heard all the time. I really think it has to do with management style. Newer and more progressive companies are more flexible in this regard. Older companies tend to stick with tradition or see working at home as a benefit. There are places where security is a big deal and it is important to recognize that. In those situations there is no possibility of working from home.

This is bullshit.  I recently consulted for [huge bank that's too big to fail], they were as much neurotic about security as usual in financial services (btw first company I worked for that required a drug test as part of the background check...), still they had fantastic support for remote work.  Not that my manager would allow people to work from home without a "good reason" like a doc appointment mid-day - in his words that I still remember, "telecommuting is a privilege, not a right, especially for consultants". Said manager was a control freak, but that's not a rare thing.

Some overtime is difficult to avoid in software projects, but I would never consider working for a company that demands it as a rule - if the regular hours are 10h/day, then just put 10h/day in my contract... - or for a company that demands ANY amount of on-site overtime. You ask me to stay working late or in weekends, I'm doing a favor to you; a HUGE favor if not paid extra. So at the very least let me do that on my pajamas.

A+

Osvaldo

[Robert Casto]

Companies won't do that "on paper" because then they would have to make concessions. It would cost them money and it would lower productivity. Until the economy turns around, I doubt many will be getting the option to work from home. As for you manager being a control freak and thinking it is a privilege, that is way too common. If they don't have people around them to keep an eye on, then they feel they are not doing their job.

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