New Mainsail

[Saltire]

Hi - I have purchased #41 and will be keeping it in Rye NY. It looks like I will be needing to buy a new mainsail and I was wondering who Thin Man and Risk (both local to me) get their sails from. Other east coast recommendations welcome.

 

Thanks - john forster (Saltire)

[david....@comcast.net]

I own Zut Alors #12 and keep it in Noank. I just bought a new main from North. Jack Orr is whom to contact as he has all the details.

My speed is now where it needs to be. Well worth the money

David LeGrand

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

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From: Saltire <jfors...@gmail.com>

Sender: j92o...@googlegroups.com

Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 14:46:23 -0700 (PDT)

To: <j92o...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: j92o...@googlegroups.com

Subject: [j92owners] New Mainsail

Hi - I have purchased #41 and will be keeping it in Rye NY. It looks like I will be needing to buy a new mainsail and I was wondering who Thin Man and Risk (both local to me) get their sails from. Other east coast recommendations welcome.

 

Thanks - john forster (Saltire)

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[Saltire]

Thanks David - john

[Ragtime!]

Rags got some new rags last month.  The wind was light so they look a little lumpy in these photos but when the breeze comes on, I can flatten them out and they look stunning.  3DL 680's with grey taffeta on one side, Cuben Fiber patches and all that jazz.

[Tyler, Pete]

We have been using Hyde for a number of years.  Been good and fast

On 05/09/2012 22:46, "Saltire" <jfors...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi - I have purchased #41 and will be keeping it in Rye NY. It looks like I will be needing to buy a new mainsail and I was wondering who Thin Man and Risk (both local to me) get their sails from. Other east coast recommendations welcome.
 
Thanks - john forster (Saltire)

Best Regards

Pete

Pete Tyler

Managing Director

Neilson Active Holidays
Locksview
Brighton Marina
Brighton
BN2 5HA

Tel: +44 (0)1273 666101

www.neilson.co.uk

P Please consider the environment before printing this email

[Don Hedges]

Just go the same main for Turn Key. I like it and will be getting a new no. 1 from North made from the same material. One of the first races where we used the new main was a 30 mile romp down the Southern California coast from Santa Monica Bay to Los Alamitos Bay in Long Beach. They stuck us in PHRF A which included  J111’s J122’s, other fast boats and a NM 55 that rated -12.  Had shifty 18 to 20 knot winds down the coast and the kite kept collapsing and tried to wrap around the fore stay. Never had so much trouble flying the kite but I guess we were lucky as one boat had a spinnaker wrap so bad that they had to finish with the chute completely wrapped around the forestay.  We did not have a great sail but managed a 3^rd out of 10 boats only 1+ minute out of first on corrected time. The new main performed well but I wish I new why we had so much trouble with the kite.

 

Don Hedges

 

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[Ragtime!]

You know what you're doing Don so I don't have any pat answers for you, but it does remind me of a funny experience.

Several years ago when I was still new to the boat (yeah, that was it), I was having similar troubles getting the kite to fly properly.  It was all over the place, wouldn't stay filled, etc.  I was about to give up and take it down when I noticed I hadn't pulled the sprit out.

[John Madey]

Here is another funny story that may help. A few years ago I got a new spinn that would not fly right. We could not figure it out. Get it up, look at it say this sail sucks, take it down put the old one back up and forget about the new one till we got adventurous again. Then one day I left the old one at home, we were late to the boat and tied the new one on while motoring out to the race course.   Rounded the windward mark, popped up the new one and wham the sail/boat is pulling like mad.  Foredeck is asking what I did to the sail as it is flying perfect!  What the....  One of the crew notices the sail maker logo is at the spin sheets and not the pole end like normal. Seems the tack and clew labels  are switched from the factory and that day we had tied the sail on "incorrectly". We laughed all the way to a first place finish...

Or when in doubt let it out.

J

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[Todd Aven]

How deep were you trying to sail with the kite (true or apparent)? In shifty 18-20 knots with significant swells, you can expect apparent wind to swing quite a bit. If you're deeper than about 155-160 TWA, the kite is bound to collapse behind the main frequently. 

[Don Hedges]

Yes, we were trying to sail deep, I looked at the instruments when I was not holding on for dear life and I saw 174 TWA , ( I know too deep) and the chute did collapsed behind the main and then tried to wrap itself around the forestay, This only occurred 20 or 30 thime, we headed up a little but still had problems, seems I could not hit an angle where the chute would pull and not collapse.. We did take the 2A down and hoisted the small code 5a reacher with a high clew and thing settled down. The peak speed was not as good but our average was better.

 

Don Hedges

 

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[Max]

I like that deep shape which I feel would be best for our light airs. But then my sailmaker made something flatter. 

Are you able to flatten it out easily - my mast looks so stiff.

Question on jib : no vertical battens i.e. no furling ?

max

Il giorno 06/set/2012, alle ore 05:34, Ragtime! ha scritto:

Rags got some new rags last month.  The wind was light so they look a little lumpy in these photos but when the breeze comes on, I can flatten them out and they look stunning.  3DL 680's with grey taffeta on one side, Cuben Fiber patches and all that jazz.

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<NewMain.jpg><NewJib.jpg><NewJib2.jpg>

[Ragtime!]

Hi Max,

 

The sails look much better with more breeze, but then it's harder to get good photos, especially solo.  I'll try to take some more.

 

In these shots I had the backstay pulled on about 1/3.  With 2/3 backstay and with more outhaul and cunningham, the sail gets much flatter.  At full backstay (two-blocked) I just start to see overbend wrinkles evenly down the sail.  That means the sail was cut correctly for the mast bend.

 

The horizontal jib battens are RBS Roller Battens of a new design.  I'm not quite happy with the top batten and will continue to work with the tension, but they are much better than the old vertical battens.  Roller battens allow you to roll up the jib downwind but North does not recommend leaving them rolled or even fully tensioned in the sail.  In fact, right now North is reluctant to even provide them.  I also have a set of regular battens (which look even better) but those would be used with crew where I can drop the jib downwind.

 

Bob J.

[Todd Aven]

My current main is from UK and I've been very happy with it. This is the
third season. It had a very rough first season including the very first
time it was hoisted we ended up beating to weather in 40-45kts for four
hours with a 2nd reef and #3 jib, not to mention the 13 hours we were
beating to windward in 20-35kts in the 2010 Vineyard Race.

My previous main was a new North 3DL that came with the boat when I
bought it. The shape was lovely, but it was only good for two seasons
before it became structurally suspect (still good shape for light airs
if needed).

I'll be getting a new main as well, but haven't started evaluating the
options yet. I plan to take a shot at longer distance double-handed IRC
racing next year and that could influence my decision.

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[Christian Uecker]

I am also looking to get a new main and #1 this off season.   I can't let Thin Man beat me again next year at the YRALIS Champs...Ha.

If we can get 3 mains from the same loft there must be a discount in there.....

 

B.Rgds

Christian Uecker (Hound Dog)

[Grizzly]

I need a new main for next season too, so would be interested in a group buy.  I would likely go North, but would consider other sailmakers.

My boat is a J92S (hull # 66), so that might complicate matters.

[Max]

Thanks Bob!

Max

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[Saltire]

I would certainly be interested in a bulk purchase if it gets us extra discount - john

[Todd Aven]

I'll be speaking with UK next week about a main and will broach the idea
of a volume discount. Someone want to do the same for North?

How many "classic" mains are we looking to buy in total?

[Colin Mann]

I'm potentially interested as well .... especially if it's North.

Colin

J/92 Poohsticks

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[Ragtime!]

My North rep, Pete McCormick, is involved with the Rolex BBS here in SF but should be back in his office on Monday or Tuesday.  I can point him to this thread and see if he can participate in getting something organized back there for you guys.  I know my kites are designed back there (Milford?) - we have a cool new "TransPac" 2A in process at the moment, designed by Dave Hirsch who used to do most of the A/C kites.

Pete has worked with me since I bought the boat (ten years) and certainly knows the mast bend, etc. for the classic 92 with Hall spar.  He also suggested some new things with this main that aren't obvious - like battens that install from the forward end of the pockets so the leech is really smooth and doesn't hang on the backstay.  This is Rags' third 3DL main - we've evolved the design a fair bit over ten years.

North has their Trade-In-Trade-Up deal going for 20% off right now but it's almost over.

I'll stay out of this if you prefer, but if you want me to get Pete involved, lemme know . . .

Bob J.

[Joe Cooper]

Ladies and gentleman,
While browsing for something else I came up with this report from an Aussie sailing magazine. Granted it is from '03, but FYI...
Cheers
Cooper

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Joe Cooper

C: 401 965 6006
www.joecoopersailing.com

[Kevin Mackay]

John, congrats on the new boat and welcome to the small NY-area J/92 fraternity.  Hopefully, we'll see you out there soon.

 

My main is from North.  It is 2 years old and has served well so far.  I think it still has quite a bit of life left.  It is 3DL 680 with taffeta on one side with 2 reefs to enable distance racing. I have a 145% genoa light/medium #1, also a 3DL 680.  I have never regretted going for the 145% v. the 155%.  This year has been light a lot on WLIS and we have generally made out in the drifters.

 

I learned the lesson about sailing too deep in the Vineyard a couple of weeks ago.  I was at the helm in the last couple of hours of the downwind ride to Seaflower and really wanted to soak down as much as possible trying to keep up with Todd.  However, the spinnaker kept collapsing behind the main.  I really don't like the sound of collapsing and filling spinnakers - a very loud towel-snap to the wallet.  Ultimately sense prevailed, we heated up a little and made much more speed, especially down the course given adverse current.

 

I don't think I am in the market for a main this year.  A reaching spinnaker or jib-top, more likely.  I would like to do more distance racing in 2013, but I'll let Todd experiment with IRC for a while before I follow him down that path.

 

Kevin Mackay

#26 Risk

[Saltire]

From looking through the posts there appears to be the potential of 4 no 92 mains (Hound Dog / Poohsticks / Thin Man & Saltire) and 1 92S mainsail (Grizzly)

 

Tod - if you are speaking to UK, I am happy to make contact with North (Jack Orr - who made Zutalors mainsail)

 

John

On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 5:46:23 PM UTC-4, Saltire wrote:

[Todd Aven]

I spoke with Butch today and he is happy to entertain a bulk order.

Having said that, I'm not likely to go with a "membrane" sail this time around. Given the amount of distance racing in my schedule, I'm looking for a bit more longevity. In the UK lineup, this would be Tape Drive. 

I'm curious to hear Bob's thoughts on this, as his shorthanded distance schedule is tougher than mine by far. How much mileage do you get out of the 3DL main? (I got 2 years from mine)

Thanks,

Todd

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[Pete....@neilson.com]

Look at the hyde carbon panel sails. Have served us well on J92s and J105



Best Regards

Pete Tyler
Managing Director
Neilson Active Holidays

e-mail. pete....@neilson.com
Work. +44 1273 666101
Mob. +44 7803 179599

Sent from my ipad.
So please excuse the typing and I may be out of the office

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Aven [to...@avenshaven.net]
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 09:30 PM GMT Standard Time
To: j92o...@googlegroups.com

[Ragtime!]

The keys to longevity of the 3DLs are (in decreasing importance) the
taffeta, the yarn count and Kevlar vs. carbon yarns. My 2003 3DL 600
main has taffeta on both sides and held up well, including the 2006
solo TransPac. It never delaminated and I could use it today - but it
has a full PHRF roach and is a bit much single-handed. My 2007 3DL
600 main is also 2x taffeta and has the 2008 solo TransPac on it (but
no races in 2010 due to the refit). It still looks good but it
accumulated a bag of water below a seam (yes, 3DLs do have seams)
during the nasty LongPac in 2011, when 23 out of 27 starters turned
back (da wimps). North drained it and stitched it up, and the shape
is still good - I won the season with it last year. It is a flatter
sail, has less roach, an overhead leech cord and two monster reefs.

While they last plenty long, 2x taffeta makes a heavier sail - I
suspect too heavy for sailing around in LIS most days.

I don't expect the new 680 main to last as long because it has taffeta
on only one side, but I wanted more of an inshore racing sail this
time. I plan to use the 2007 main for any heavy offshore races next
season.

Kevlar can take more abuse than the more brittle carbon. You'll have
the same issue with a Tape Drive if the tapes are carbon - it will
break down sooner than Kevlar. I had a suit of Tape Drive Diamonds
(?) on Troubador (J/33), with carbon tapes . . . . meh . . .

The new 3DL 680's are still mostly Kevlar - the Kevlar yards are dyed
black so they LOOK like they're all carbon - very cool.

I can give you my North order numbers, yarn counts etc. if anyone
wants that info.

Finally, remember: A sail isn't properly broken in until it has blood
on it.

[Privateer #2]

We Have Doyle stratis coming out of Australia,  Our sail has the layer of taffeta on the inside of the lay up so it give strenth to the mylar and looks shiny to,

In the early runs they had some problems with de lamination but they have nailed it now and makes for a nice robust sail with out having to have taffeta on both sides

Matt

[Saltire]

I have reached out to Jack Orr at North CT - will let you know what he says when he replies - john

[TCWippy]

I'm also pricing out sails and will likely be buying them in October to get fall discounts. Leaning toward North 680 main and 155 plus medium air runner. Is anyone interested in grouping up on north sails?

[Saltire]

I got some pricing from North CT which I sent onto Thin Man / Poohsticks & Hound Dog - will forward to you by email in a few minutes. 

Did you guys get the email?

[TCWippy]

All,
I think there is a great opportunity for some good deals on North
Sails in the next couple weeks. They are closing out the gold twaron
and going to all black for the 3DL 600 sails. There is a limited run
(as in only available the next couple weeks). I also priced out the
3DL 680 with twaron/carbon (taffeta / reefs are extra). The prices I
received are:

Sail - 600 (gold) - 680 (black)
Main - $3616 - $4088
155% - $2625 - $4066
Kite (2A runner) - $3337

For a group order with deposits placed by 11/1, they will give and
additional 10% off. Here are the details:

"As far as a fleet discount it should be easy to do. It could get a
bit difficult depending on how many regions of North America get
involved because we’ll want to be sure a North Sales loft is involved
with any boat in their area but that’s a logistical issue I will
gladly deal with. I’d be happy to offer an additional 10% for
multiple orders as long as deposits are received by 11/1 with the
understanding that balance will be paid by 12/1 for delivery around
12/15. Does that help?"

The J92 I hope to purchase is being surveyed today and I hope to pick
it up this weekend. If that happens, I'm happy to take the lead on
this order. Would need names, addresses, and sail specifics next week
so they can revise pricing. I'd price everything through the local
guy to get group pricing, but the order would end up being processed
through your local loft.

Regards,
Doug Wipperman
Traverse City MI
tcw...@gmail.com

> > runner.  Is anyone interested in grouping up on north sails?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Marco Cohen]

Is this for j92 classic or the s version?
Do you think it will be the same price?
Thanks
Marco

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[Tcwippy]

I'm not sure, but i don't think it matters, they are just looking for a group purchase. If I can gather a list of sails, I'll submit them all for pricing. Some folks may want no reefs, another might want two, and another may want taffeta, so the sail won't all be the same anyway.