incredible Abelmoschus from Hooghly

[surajit koley]

Sir,

If i knew epicalyx was also very important to ID a plant i would have more concentrated on it, instead of flowers or leaves or fruits!

Species :  Abelmoschus manihot var. pungens (Roxburgh) in FoC or Abelmoschus pungens (Roxb.) Voigt in FoP ???

Habit & Habitat : wild herb in a wasteplace beside railway tracks; about 5 to 7 feet tall; don't have other figures

Date : 20/10/12, 12.30 p.m.

Place : Hooghly

sites:-

1. https://groups.google.com/d/topic/indiantreepix/tAMLPLIfrcc/discussion
   
2. https://groups.google.com/d/topic/indiantreepix/8ebHdiIH_X0/discussion
   
3. https://groups.google.com/d/topic/indiantreepix/0SpP7BrrExo/discussion
   
4. https://groups.google.com/d/topic/indiantreepix/Py5nHXWHHtk/discussion
   

Thank you & Regards,

surajit

[surajit koley]

Sir,

Flower stat...

Regards,

surajit

[jmgarg1]

Forwarding again for Id confirmation or otherwise please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

Flower stat... Regards, surajit

--
 
 
 

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise): http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg. You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group: http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix (more than 1980 members & 1,33,000 messages on 30/9/12) or Efloraofindia website: https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/ (with a species database of more than 7500 species).

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'. 

[surajit koley]

Sir,

Thank you very much for taking care of this post too.

Regards,

surajit

[Gurcharan Singh]

Abelmoschus manihot subsp. tetraphyllus. If we want to go further it would be var. tetraphyllus and not pungens, as there are no prickly hairs on the epicalyx.

-- 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

--
 
 
 

[surajit koley]

Thank you Sir for the correct ID.

I could get hold of its flower only and the same or part thereof was itching. I thought itching = prickly = pungens.

Regards,

surajit

[surajit koley]

As per FoC Abelmoschus manihot subsp. tetraphyllus var. tetraphyllus is found in Indonesia and Phillippines.

As per Haines, Prain, Roxburgh and Hooker this should be Hibiscus pungens Roxb.

Thank you

Regards

surajit

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for Id confirmation or otherwise please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

Abelmoschus manihot subsp. tetraphyllus. If we want to go further it would be var. tetraphyllus and not pungens, as there are no prickly hairs on the epicalyx. --  Dr. Gurcharan Singh

As per FoC Abelmoschus manihot subsp. tetraphyllus var. tetraphyllus is found in Indonesia and Phillippines.

As per Haines, Prain, Roxburgh and Hooker this should be Hibiscus pungens Roxb. Thank you Regards surajit

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: surajit koley <surajitno...@gmail.com>
Date: 20 October 2012 at 23:14
Subject: [efloraofindia:135726] incredible Abelmoschus from Hooghly
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

--
 
 
 

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

[surajit koley]

Sir,

Even though I fully accept that Gurcharan Sir is last word on Malvaceae as in many many other families I would request Gurcharan Sir to review one more time and give his final verdict. My points of dissent are -

1. Whatever FoC says about "conspicuous yellow prickly hairs" it gives epicalyx width only upto 5mm, both in KEY and in description of A. manihot as a whole. My species has epicalyx with 10 mm wide lobes - pic DSCN5132
2. FoP doesn't have A. manihot itself, but has A. pungens - http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=100020
3. Sir Prain listed all three - manihot, tetraphyllus, and pungens; and with a special note on tetraphyllus
4. Haines excluded manihot in his book BoBO and gave KEY & descriptions of tetraphyllus and pungens but no manihot!
5. I think flower size, petiole much longer than leaf blade, fruit longer than epicalyx and calyx suggest it maybe pungens, neither tetraphyllus nor manihot itself

Attached here relevant entries, and some related photographs.

While some authors like to treat all of the above as a single entity others differ as far as my google search informs.

Thank you

Regards

surajit

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for any feedback in the matter please.

[surajit koley]

Well, Garg Sir, again I accept Gurcharan Sir's silence as equivalent to hesitation. Let this species remain Abelmoschus manihot only, but please no ssp. tetraphyllus.

Thank you

Regards

surajit

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Surajit ji,

Can we keep it as Abelmoschus manihot (L.) Medik. subsp. tetraphyllus (Roxb. ex Hornem.) Borss. Waalk. var. pungens (Roxb.) Hochr. ? in efi as per GRIN till issue is finally resolved ?

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: surajit koley <surajitno...@gmail.com>

Date: 13 February 2015 at 22:17
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:135726] incredible Abelmoschus from Hooghly
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>, Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>

[surajit koley]

I think yes, Garg Sir.

Thank you

Regards

surajit

[surajit koley]

I think yes.

Thank you Garg Sir, the reply should be here in this thread.

Regards

surajit

[surajit koley]

Sorry Garg Sir, for dual reply, I was engrossed into something else!

Thank you

Regards

surajit

[D.S Rawat]

The attached pages from Flora of India (1993) may have some help.
DSRawat Pantnagar

[surajit koley]

Thank you very much Sir. Flora of India pages tell me that this species is either subsp. manihot or subsp. tetraphyllus var. pungens.

Now, it is hard to tell which one of the above two this species can be. I found this beside railtracks, so there is less possibility of this plant to be an escape from cultivation. More so because the closest housing complex at that place is at least 200 m away. Moreover, the KEY, about presence/absence of prickly hairs, in the Flora of India you have attached herewith, goes against the notes under subsp. manihot. So, confusion remains.

But, I thank you again, very much, for the paper.

Regards

surajit

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/indiantreepix/d97vqWiz03M/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to indiantreepi...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to indian...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.