Thunbergia grandiflora Roxb. from Hooghly

[surajit koley]

Sir,

KEW says Thunbergia grandiflora Roxb. is a synonym of Thunbergia alata Bojer ex Sims. But 'google search' gives all yellow flowers for Thunbergia alata Bojer ex Sims !

Species : Thunbergia grandiflora Roxb.

Habit & Habitat : climber, found outside a residence

Date : 18/8/12, 4.41 P.M.

Place : Barijahati (Hooghly)

website visited :

1. http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=242352257
   
2. http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=242352257
   
3. https://groups.google.com/d/topic/indiantreepix/EzseeCmIDok/discussion
   
4. https://groups.google.com/d/topic/indiantreepix/lyVN2BHvQEc/discussion
   

Thank you & Regards,

surajit

[Gurcharan Singh]

Yes Surajit

Very nice photographs

-- 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

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[satyendra tiwari]

Dear Surjit ji,

I hope new comers will learn from your posts. How to do homework before posting it on Eflora.

Nice Pictures. A similar plant is growing on fence in village Tala Umaria M.P. I will check when it flowers.

Regards.

Satyendra

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--

Satyendra K.Tiwari.
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[ushadi Micromini]

yes Surajit
grows at the hort and elliot park on chowringhee and many places in and around the canals in shyambazar etc...  saw them during the whirlwind durgapuja pandal hopping a couple of years ago....

your second question I think is the Thunbergia alata... its well accepted that thunbergia alata is a distinctly different species... it had different structure of flowers and leaf...
I am enclosing a picture here, from NYBG where plants are displayed with labels once it s classified by their  botanists and horticulturists team... I value their opinion above any website for sure...

this was labelled  a t. alata orange flowers... did not photograph the label because I have my self had been growing the typical Yellow flowered t. alata vine for many many years as part of my nostalgia of India garden... t. alata is south african origin as far as I know.. ..yet  my Grandma's garden on the east coast or the west coast always had them almost growing like wild ... this link shows both colors....
http://www.plantzafrica.com/planttuv/thunbergalata.htm

To confuse the issue its also called black eyed susan by some areas of the english speaking world including popular name in seed catalogues and popular flower for cutflower trade in USA and europe   and now grows wild in the meadows all over...and by the roadsides ....this Black eyed susan is Rudbeckia hirta  of Aster family...   http://www.fcps.edu/islandcreekes/ecology/black-eyed_susan.htm
ecologically an important plant, its considered so at least in the USA  you'll see that in the site above.....
enjoy
Usha di

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Usha di
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[surajit koley]

Good morning Sir,

Thank you very much for confirming. I am surprised to note that you were still online at late night, yesterday!

Regards.

surajit

[surajit koley]

Good morning Sir,

Thank you very much for the encouraging note, i will try to keep it up.

Regards,

surajit

On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 6:30 AM, satyendra tiwari <kays...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Gurcharan Singh]

Sorry Surajit ji and Ushadi

I said yes to the plant being T. grandiflora without reading your first line about KEW The Plant List listing.

Having gone through the Plant List, with so many missing names, unresolved names, and many wrong synonymy records, I have become increasingly unsure about The Plant List. I prefer to follow GRIN for records which are dealt there and periodically updated by its scientists. GRIN as well as several recent treatments recognise T. grandiflora. as distinct species.

Yes Ushadi is right, T. alata is a sufficiently distinct from T. grandiflora, and to call T. grandiflora its synonym at least I find hard to digest.

If there is any species closest and can be combined with is T. laurifolia. The two are very close.

-- 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

--
Usha di
===========

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[surajit koley]

Good morning Usha Di,

Thank you very very much for elaborating on T. alata & T. grandiflora and those links. I thought KEW was the last word! I hope NYBG stands for The New York Botanical Garden.

Regards,

surajit

--
Usha di
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[Gurcharan Singh]

Dear Surajit ji

I am presently at California and would return to India only in January, 2013

It is 7.30 in the evening now.

-- 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[ushadi Micromini]

Gurcharanji
correct...
yet the t. laurifolia and t. grandiflora ... i find has different colored intensity of the blue of the flowers and the yellow or whites of the  necks ... 

someone with a lot of taxonomy knowledge will have to dissect and tell me...

yes to the confusion with the plant list ... I think it perhaps has personnel that are not very familiar with all the tropical flora or the computer program that they started using is unwieldy... it will have to become  a little fuzzy to allow a bit more separation of species and allow for fuzziness in nature...   at this point they seem to be a bit black and white ... too rigid by far... MOBOT and Kew has good botanists and scientist so I dont understand this woody/black and white / no flexibility kind of thinking and blatant ignorance of many common things...

usha di
==

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Usha di
===========

[surajit koley]

Sir,

Form now on i am going to give priority to GRIN in my search preferences.

Wishing best for your California trip, if it were not the net, we would certainly miss you, and i never like to  miss you.

Regards,

surajit

On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 8:00 AM, Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Gurcharan Singh]

Ushadi

I have several written communications from The Plant List. They se4em to be simply compiling the results of participating Institutions. I have personal rapport with few scientists of MOBOT. Perhaps I can't write here what they think about The Plant List.

What is most horrible about the Plant List that they don't include all names of IPNI, their own website based on Index Kewensis, Although these names are in both these databases, and they claim the Plant List to be the most complete listing of the World plants.

-- 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[surajit koley]

Gurcharan Sir & Usha Di,

The truth is that initially i thought this flower should go to Bignoniaceae family for its sepal shape and its 4 stamens, which i thought is comparable with my earlier post of Spathodea campanulata!

Regards,

surajit

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[ushadi Micromini]

yes nybg is that...
 a prime study place for botany ethnobotany and plain old gardeners' resource for information and plant materials  and a visual delight  for all including a casual visitor and safe even when it gets dark..., run by honest people at all levels...

i wish all indian bot gardens would be like it...   would be wonderful.
usha di

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Usha di
===========

[surajit koley]

Usha Di,

NYBG also gets priority in my search list, hereafter.

Regards,

surajit

[ushadi Micromini]

Surajit: I am not sure if they have such computerised database facilities at present... I meant I trust their information on the cards by the plants  ( when you are there personally visiting NYBG )
or when you call them...  they are digitizing their herbarium, whole of it but not sure how they are putting the database together so general public can access them .... i have not looked too carefully into it....

I trust them implicitly about any information they give out ... that's all.

otherwise like Gurcharanji has mentioned MOBOT and KEW and  GRIN is as good.... and google images then pick and choose....

usha di
==

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Usha di
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[surajit koley]

Yes, Usha Di, i have noticed their herbarium pictures available at their website.

Regards,

surajit