Status of Zehneria scabra in India

[Gurcharan Singh]

Dear friends

I have been somewhat confused about the status of Zehneria scabra, uploaded by several members including Dinesh ji, Prashant ji, and other members from Kas

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/indiantreepix/Zehneria/indiantreepix/cCGIzB2cd9A/lEwSmgknYegJ

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/indiantreepix/Zehneria/indiantreepix/cCGIzB2cd9A/lEwSmgknYegJ

 These confusions are often confounded by the absence of author citations. Strange as it may look Zehneria scabra (L.f.) Sond (Swedeish name flikig pilreva),  and Melothria scabra Naudin (Swedish name djungelgurka),  are two distinct species, often confused on net, as Melothria is an important species with good looking mini watermelon like fruits, and none look similar to our Kas plants.

and as such names Cape zehneria, South African Zehneria won't apply to our Kas plant.

My doubts are supported by recent nomenclature update by Renner and Pandey in 2013

They do not list Zehneria scabra for India, and Melothria perpusilla (Blume) Cogn. is cited as synonym of Zehneria perpusilla (Bl.) Bole and Almeida.......but as per citation this species does not grown in India.

The other name often cited as synonym of Melothria perpusilla is correctly  Zehneria hookeriana (Wight & Arn) Arn, is endemic to Tamil Nadu

This leaves third name Zehneria maysorensis (Wight & Arn.) Arn. found in Tamil Nadu, Karnataka and Maharashtra.

Could it be our plant from Kas???

  

--

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/

[Dinesh Valke]

Many many thanks Gurcharan ji for discussing Zehneria / Melothria.

Not much discussed about this genus in context of India on internet resources.

Have based my ID referencing Shrikant ji's Further Flowers of Sahyadri.

Eager to know the facts.

Regards.

Dinesh

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for any assistance in the matter please.

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[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for any assistance in the matter please.

 

If so, efi page on Zehneria scabra & threads in it requires a re-look.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>
Date: 19 June 2013 18:54
Subject: [efloraofindia:158045] Status of Zehneria scabra in India
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>, Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com>, Prashant Awale <pka...@gmail.com>, Vijayasankar Raman <vijay.b...@gmail.com>

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[Gurcharan Singh]

Perhaps we may include in our discussion two species described in Fascicles of Flora of India, No 11: Cucurbitaceae, by H. L. Chakravarty

Melothria perpusilla (Blume) Cogn.  (plant under our discussion for which Zehneria scabra has been used in our uploads)

Melothria mucronata (Blume) Cogn.

I have gone through the description of two species but find little differences 

M. mucronata having 1-3 cm long petiole, broadly ovate leaves 5-8 cm, as much broad, scabrous, corolla lobes ovate, acute, but important fruits are ovoid-oblong 8-15 mm long, 6-9 mm broad, mucronate at apex.  

var. mucronata with glabrous lower surface, female flower solitary and var. umbellata Chakr. with lower surface hairy along nerves, female flowers in axillary umbels........latter is now correctly considered as Zehneria maysorensis (Wight & Arn.), Arn, and there is a suggestion that var. mucronata may also belong here.  

M. perpusilla having 2-5 cm long petiole, ovate-cordate leaves 5-9 cm long, 4-7 cm broad, glabrous, corolla lobes ovate-oblong, subacute and fruits globose, 8-10 mm in diam.

var. perpusilla with acute or mucronate leaf apex and var. subtruncata Cogn. with acuminate leaf apex, base subtruncate.

var. perpusilla  is now correctly known as Zehneria perpusilla (Blume) Bole & Almeida, but as reported in Renner and Pandey species does not grown in India.

var. subtruncata Cogn. is now correctly known as Zehneria bodinieri (H. Lév.) W.J.de Wilde & Duyfjes, 

It must be mentioned that Zehneria hookeriana Arn. is endemic to Tamil Nadu and very close to Zehneria bodinieri and I would be happy if some one gives me diagnosis of this species and how to differentiate two .

So our collections having gone under Zehneria scabra in our websites may be sought to be segregated into three species: Zehneria maysorensis with beroadly ovate scabrous leaves, ovate corolla lobes and oblong 8-15 mm long fruits, Z. bodinieri with ovate leaves longer than broad, glabrous leaves, ovate-oblong corolla lobes and globose 8-10 mm fruits, and very similar Z. hookeriana.

I hope Dinesh ji, Prashant ji who have great collection Western Ghats and South India, and other experts especially Vijayasankar ji, and great expert Prof. Renner should be able to sort this out.

I have a feeling that mixed upload by Dinesh ji from Kas and Mahabaleshwar may have both these species, Mahableshwar photograph looking different from Kas one.     

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/indiantreepix/Zehneria/indiantreepix/cCGIzB2cd9A/lEwSmgknYegJ

  

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/

On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 1:53 PM, Susanne Renner <ren...@lrz.uni-muenchen.de> wrote:

Dear Gurcharan,

 I think there is no need to cc Harry Paris, who lives in Israel and is a specialist on Cucumis, Cucurbita, and Citrullus.

Without knowing the location, I cannot know which of the 5 species of Zehneria is shown on your photos.
The reason is that I have not seen photos of all Zehneria from India, so I cannot know there "look when alive" - I only know pressed cucs. from India.

In our "Checklist of the Cucs of India" we provide a link to an images of the type of Zehneria maysorensis.
Have you looked at that image?

Susanne



Dear Prof Zenner
Perhaps it would be interesting to know the identity of Zehneria scabra uploaded from India as given in my links above which I am repeating:


https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/indiantreepix/Zehneria/indiantreepix/cCGIzB2cd9A/lEwSmgknYegJ

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/indiantreepix/Zehneria/indiantreepix/cCGIzB2cd9A/lEwSmgknYegJ

Also the plant depicted on Flowers of India

http://www.flowersofindia.net/catalog/slides/Cape%20Zehneria.html

Should we call above plants as Zehneria maysorensis?

Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/

On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 12:31 PM, Susanne Renner <ren...@lrz.uni-muenchen.de> wrote:
Dear Gurcharan,

 Here is the answer:

Pilogyne scabra (L.f.) W.J.de Wilde & Duyfjes, Blumea 55(3): 294. 2010
Zehneria scabra (L. f.) Sond. in Harv. & Sond., Fl. Cap. 2: 486 (1862). Type: South Africa, Thunberg (UPS, holotype!).
Bryonia scabra L.f., Suppl. Pl. (1781) 423. — Type: Thunberg s.n. (holo UPS), South Africa, Cape Province.

----
Melothria scabra Naudin -- Ann. Sci. Nat., Bot. sér. 5, 6: 10. 1866, Type: Cerro Redondo, Depart. Santa Rosa, Guatemala, Heyde s.n. (K)
Image of type is here: http://plants.jstor.org/specimen/k000435992
-----------
Hope this helps,
Susanne Renner

On Oct 21, 2013, at 6:30 AM, Gurcharan Singh wrote:

Dear Prof Renner and Harry Paris
I have circulated this on efloraofindia but with no results. Perhaps you can help.

Dear friends
I have been somewhat confused about the status of Zehneria scabra, uploaded by several members including Dinesh ji, Prashant ji, and other members from Kas

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/indiantreepix/Zehneria/indiantreepix/cCGIzB2cd9A/lEwSmgknYegJ

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/indiantreepix/Zehneria/indiantreepix/cCGIzB2cd9A/lEwSmgknYegJ

 These confusions are often confounded by the absence of author citations. Strange as it may look Zehneria scabra (L.f.) Sond (Swedeish name flikig pilreva),  and Melothria scabra Naudin (Swedish name djungelgurka),  are two distinct species, often confused on net, as Melothria scabra is an important species with good looking mini watermelon like fruits, and none look similar to our Kas plants.

[Gurcharan Singh]

Perhaps we may include in our discussion two species described in Fascicles of Flora of India, No 11: Cucurbitaceae, by H. L. Chakravarty

Melothria perpusilla (Blume) Cogn.  (plant under our discussion for which Zehneria scabra has been used in our uploads)

Melothria mucronata (Blume) Cogn.

I have gone through the description of two species but find little differences 

M. mucronata having 1-3 cm long petiole, broadly ovate leaves 5-8 cm, as much broad, scabrous, corolla lobes ovate, acute, but important fruits are ovoid-oblong 8-15 mm long, 6-9 mm broad, mucronate at apex.  

var. mucronata with glabrous lower surface, female flower solitary and var. umbellata Chakr. with lower surface hairy along nerves, female flowers in axillary umbels........latter is now correctly considered as Zehneria maysorensis (Wight & Arn.), Arn, and there is a suggestion that var. mucronata may also belong here.  

M. perpusilla having 2-5 cm long petiole, ovate-cordate leaves 5-9 cm long, 4-7 cm broad, glabrous, corolla lobes ovate-oblong, subacute and fruits globose, 8-10 mm in diam.

var. perpusilla with acute or mucronate leaf apex and var. subtruncata Cogn. with acuminate leaf apex, base subtruncate.

var. perpusilla  is now correctly known as Zehneria perpusilla (Blume) Bole & Almeida, but as reported in Renner and Pandey species does not grown in India.

var. subtruncata Cogn. is now correctly known as Zehneria bodinieri (H. Lév.) W.J.de Wilde & Duyfjes, 

It must be mentioned that Zehneria hookeriana Arn. is endemic to Tamil Nadu and very close to Zehneria bodinieri and I would be happy if some one gives me diagnosis of this species and how to differentiate two .

So our collections having gone under Zehneria scabra in our websites may be sought to be segregated into three species: Zehneria maysorensis with beroadly ovate scabrous leaves, ovate corolla lobes and oblong 8-15 mm long fruits, Z. bodinieri with ovate leaves longer than broad, glabrous leaves, ovate-oblong corolla lobes and globose 8-10 mm fruits, and very similar Z. hookeriana.

I hope Dinesh ji, Prashant ji who have great collection Western Ghats and South India, and other experts especially Vijayasankar ji, and great expert Prof. Renner should be able to sort this out.

I have a feeling that mixed upload by Dinesh ji from Kas and Mahabaleshwar may have both these species, Mahableshwar photograph looking different from Kas one.     

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/indiantreepix/Zehneria/indiantreepix/cCGIzB2cd9A/lEwSmgknYegJ

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/

[Dinesh Valke]

Many thanks Gurcharan ji for raising this discussion. Will get back to it from my end very soon.

Regards.

Dinesh

[Susanne Renner]

Dear Gurcharan,

The only thing I can contribute to this discussion is the original locations from where these name have been described; only by studying material from near the type localities can one infer whether there are 1, 2 or 3 species and which name applies to which collection:

1) Zehneria perpusilla (Blume) Bole & M.R. Almeida, J. Bombay Nat. Hist. Soc. 79(2): 315. 1983.
= Melothria perpusilla (Blume) Cogn. in A. & C. DC., Monogr. Phan. 3: 607. 1881.
=Cucurbita perpusilla Blume, Cat. Gew. Buitenzorg (Blume) 105. 1823.
Lectotype: Java, Blume s.n. (L, barcode L0048312).

2) Zehneria mucronata (Blume) Miq., Flora van Nederlandsch India 1. 1856
= Melothria mucronata (Blume) Cogn.
= Bryonia mucronata Blume -- Bijdr. Fl. Ned. Ind. 15: 923. 1826
= Pilogyne mucronata (Blume) W.J.de Wilde & Duyfjes -- Reinwardtia 12(5): 410. 2009
Type: Java, Blume s.n. (L, barcode xxx have to check).

3) Melothria bodinieri H.Lév., Fl. Kouy-Tcheou 122 (1914-15)
= Pilogyne bodinieri (H.Lév.) W.J.de Wilde & Duyfjes, Reinwardtia 12(5): 410. 2009
= Zehneria bodinieri (H.Lév.) W.J.de Wilde & Duyfjes, Thai Forest Bull., Bot. 32: 17. 2004
Lectotype designated by De Wilde & Duyfjes (2004b): China, Guangzhou, Kouyan, Bodinier 1957 (E, P).

Susanne Renner

On Oct 21, 2013, at 3:29 PM, Gurcharan Singh wrote:

Perhaps we may include in our discussion two species described in Fascicles of Flora of India, No 11: Cucurbitaceae, by H. L. Chakravarty
Melothria perpusilla (Blume) Cogn. (plant under our discussion for which Zehneria scabra has been used in our uploads)
Melothria mucronata (Blume) Cogn.

I have gone through the description of two species but find little differences
M. mucronata having 1-3 cm long petiole, broadly ovate leaves 5-8 cm, as much broad, scabrous, corolla lobes ovate, acute, but important fruits are ovoid-oblong 8-15 mm long, 6-9 mm broad, mucronate at apex.
var. mucronata with glabrous lower surface, female flower solitary and var. umbellata Chakr. with lower surface hairy along nerves, female flowers in axillary umbels........latter is now correctly considered as Zehneria maysorensis (Wight & Arn.), Arn, and there is a suggestion that var. mucronata may also belong here.

M. perpusilla having 2-5 cm long petiole, ovate-cordate leaves 5-9 cm long, 4-7 cm broad, glabrous, corolla lobes ovate-oblong, subacute and fruits globose, 8-10 mm in diam.
var. perpusilla with acute or mucronate leaf apex and var. subtruncata Cogn. with acuminate leaf apex, base subtruncate.

var. perpusilla is now correctly known as Zehneria perpusilla (Blume) Bole & Almeida, but as reported in Renner and Pandey species does not grown in India.
var. subtruncata Cogn. is now correctly known as Zehneria bodinieri (H. Lév.) W.J.de Wilde & Duyfjes,

It must be mentioned that Zehneria hookeriana Arn. is endemic to Tamil Nadu and very close to Zehneria bodinieri and I would be happy if some one gives me diagnosis of this species and how to differentiate two .

So our collections having gone under Zehneria scabra in our websites may be sought to be segregated into three species: Zehneria maysorensis with beroadly ovate scabrous leaves, ovate corolla lobes and oblong 8-15 mm long fruits, Z. bodinieri with ovate leaves longer than broad, glabrous leaves, ovate-oblong corolla lobes and globose 8-10 mm fruits, and very similar Z. hookeriana.

I hope Dinesh ji, Prashant ji who have great collection Western Ghats and South India, and other experts especially Vijayasankar ji, and great expert Prof. Renner should be able to sort this out.

I have a feeling that mixed upload by Dinesh ji from Kas and Mahabaleshwar may have both these species, Mahableshwar photograph looking different from Kas one.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/indiantreepix/Zehneria/indiantreepix/cCGIzB2cd9A/lEwSmgknYegJ