Hinges and windows questions and a possible dust solution

[Colorado_Althea]

Hi everyone!!!
I am the handy girl in my group so I have decided to tackle to
hexayurt for our shelter needs. I am thinking for 3 girls this is a
pretty perfect set up. I do have a few questions though before I get
started and and maybe one suggestion. So my first question, is it
better to "hinge" the pieces together with tape or should you use real
hinges? Second, what is the best way to help the door latch closed?
Third, windows or NO windows? Finally do you think three girls could
get this up by themselves?
I did have one suggestion for a dust barrier when it comes to the
floors. I made several very long tubes stuffed with beads and cotton
to act a a draft stop to go all the way around the inside where the
walls meet the ground. It should work, it keeps the cold air out of my
house.

Thanks for all of your help in advance!!!!

Lindsay

[Richard Ginn]

On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 12:39 AM, Colorado_Althea <lindsayg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi everyone!!!
 I am the handy girl in my group so I have decided to tackle to
hexayurt for our shelter needs. I am thinking for 3 girls this is a
pretty perfect set up. I do have a few questions though before I get
started and and maybe one suggestion.  So my first question, is it
better to "hinge" the pieces together with tape or should you use real
hinges?

Huh!  At first I thought that real hinges would be heavy and expensive, but then I remembered we are living in the future now (2012 and all) so maybe there are plastic piano hinges?  Piano hinges being what they call the really long hinges.  And sure enough: https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=plastic+piano+hinges   finds some.  I'm not sure they fold all the way flat but they might!  And they would seal the joint too.  So you can look into those.  Or, sure, there's tape, and experiences using it are plentiful here on this list.
 

Second, what is the best way to help the door latch closed?

I dunno, but someone here does :)
 

Third, windows or NO windows?

Do you *want* windows?  :)    I think a few layers of bubble plastic sheets would be insulating and let light in, but any plastic sheet would be a window.  [Taped]
 

Finally do you think three girls could
get this up by themselves?

is this a trick question?
 

 I did have one suggestion for a dust barrier when it comes to the
floors. I made several very long tubes stuffed with beads and cotton
to act a a draft stop to go all the way around the inside where the
walls meet the ground. It should work, it keeps the cold air out of my
house.

Sounds like that would work!  One drafty space along the floor is the same as another, and your floor snake sounds like it would be flexible to follow ground shape contours.
 

Thanks for all of your help in advance!!!!

Lindsay

let us know what happens!   is this for winter or summer or...

[Colorado_Althea]

It is for burning man so it would be summer in the desert. I have one
more question is the 8' yurt big enough for 3 people?

[Colorado_Althea]

Oh I also was only thinking of windows for ventilation purposes. I
have read about people using furnace filters as windows out on the
playa to keep the dust out, is that a reasonable solution?

On Jan 9, 10:57 pm, Richard Ginn <richardg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 12:39 AM, Colorado_Althea <
>

[Richard Ginn]

Lot's of people on this list have practical Playa experience, I don't so I can only share ideas that might work.

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[Joshua Keroes]

Big enough for three people? You bet. You should even be able to get most of your stuff in there, too. Build one now, do a trial set up, and you can judge for yourself.

Venting: furnace filters are a proven solution for keeping the dust out.

Can three girls get it up? Jokes aside, no. That's not enough people to hold everything steady, tape the tension ring on, and strap it down. On the playa, it's safer and more social to get say, eight people. That's three or four to move the roof into place, two to hold the sides, one to tape the tension ring in place, and one floater. You do *not* want any boards to fly away. To that end, time your playa set up. Dawn tends to have the least wind and most light. 

Door latches: there are lots of solutions – search the archives. Regardless of which option you choose, try to position the door in the lee of the wind. I don't use a latch personally. It stays shut because the tape around the door and in the door jamb makes for a very tight fit.

Piano hinges: won't dust go right through them?

Dust barrier snakes: sounds good by the door, but it may not be necessary on the other walls. I've been quite happy pulling the ground tarp up around the outside walls and using painters tape to secure it there. Makes for a nice tight fit, keeps the dust out, and it may even act as a second tension ring. Maybe.

-Joshua

[Lindsay Baugh-Grindstaff]

Okay thanks for all the great advice. We are very social so hopefully people will help us :-) Does anyone have a good diagram showing how to properly secure the tent to the ground? I am going to build a few models before we tackle the whole thing. 

Linds

Sent from my iPhone

--

[Chasomatic]

You might want to look at these videos from Julie Danger. She has done
a good job of documentation, and has considered he questions you are
thinking about. I don't agree with everything she says but you will
succeed if you follow these instructions.
By the way, my hexayurt last year had sides that were 6 ft. tall. This
allowed me to put a zip up closet in there for costumes.

http://hexayurt.com/

Charlie

On Jan 10, 9:50 am, Lindsay Baugh-Grindstaff

[ups...@gmail.com]

Lindsay,
1) Hinge with tape,  definitely. Arrange so walls and roof sections fold up.
2) Friction will keep the door(s) closed. The main problem is hinging it sturdily while keeping it able to fold flat. Also: handles to open and close.
3) two "windows" filled with furnace filters.
4) Two people can erect it in a pinch (but not a wind); three will be plenty, especially if you've hinged for unfolding and erection (think about it). Erect the walls and the roof separately, then put them together.
5) Don't worry about dust sealage at the bottom. Anchor it down properly and it's a non-issue. The door is a much bigger challenge.
6) You didn't ask, but bevel your edges: 15° between the roof panels, 30° between roof and walls and between wall panels. Cover the edges with foil tape.

Bonus tip: monofilament (fishing line) under joints that need to be separated for teardown will make you weep with joy.

Finally: do a dry run on local asphalt before heading out, including your ground tarp, on which you will MARK THE CORNERS WITH A SHARPIE. You can thank me later.

Hope this helps. PS Yes it`s a perfect setup. building a yurt is the smartest Playa move you've ever made.

Cheers,
Steve Upstill

From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

----- Reply message -----
From: "Colorado_Althea" <lindsayg...@gmail.com>
To: "hexayurt" <hexa...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [hexayurt] Hinges and windows questions and a possible dust solution
Date: Tue, Jan 10, 2012 6:39 pm


Hi everyone!!!
 I am the handy girl in my group so I have decided to tackle to
hexayurt for our shelter needs. I am thinking for 3 girls this is a
pretty perfect set up. I do have a few questions though before I get
started and and maybe one suggestion.  So my first question, is it
better to "hinge" the pieces together with tape or should you use real

hinges? Second, what is the best way to help the door latch closed?
Third, windows or NO windows? Finally do you think three girls could

get this up by themselves?

 I did have one suggestion for a dust barrier when it comes to the
floors. I made several very long tubes stuffed with beads and cotton
to act a a draft stop to go all the way around the inside where the
walls meet the ground. It should work, it keeps the cold air out of my
house.

Thanks for all of your help in advance!!!!

Lindsay

[Phil Dirt]

Lindsay,

An 8 ft hexayurt would be plenty big enough for three. I think a 6 ft
stretch hexayurt would also be adequate, cheaper, and easier to set up
and take down, but a bit more cozy. Depends on how much stuff you want
to bring inside with you. I built a 6 ft hexayurt for last years burn
and mostly put it up by myself. I only had to ask someone to help lift
the roof in place. I took it down by myself.

I see no need to use mechanical hinges. You'd spend more money for
hardware because you'd need a lot of them and would still have to tape
the hinges to the joints. Tape hinges work fine and also serve to seal
the joints from dust.

I built my door out of 1/4" plywood sized about 2" larger than the
door opening on the top and sides (2' x 2'). I trimmed down the foam
board that I cut out for the door opening 1" on each side and glued it
to the back of the plywood to provide insulation from heat loss and
noise. I bent sheet metal flashing into a "U" shape 4" on each side
and 1-1/2" wide (the thickness of my foam panels) to fit over the foam
on the top and sides of the door opening. This serves two purposes: it
protects the edges of the foam around the door opening from abrasion
as people come in and out of the door and serves as a reinforcement
where I could mount the door hinges and latch. The door hinges were
just a couple of regular gate strap hinges bolted through the sheet
metal on one side and the latches were hinged shackles (like the kind
you would mount a padlock to) that I bolted to the plywood of the door
inside and out and the other ends were bolted through the sheet metal
flashing on the opening side of the doorway. I added a 3/4" strip of
adhesive peel 'n stick weatherstripping around the outside edges of
the door to create a seal against dust. I also made a removable
transom from a scrap of 2 x 2 (2' x 1-1/2" x 1-1/2") with metal strips
that extend 2" beyond the door opening on both sides. This is to help
seal the doorway and reduce dust from entering the yurt. The transom
slips into place after the yurt has been erected and is removed for
folding and transport. Finally, I put an eye bolt through the flashing
on the hinge side of the door and another through the plywood of the
door and used a bungee cord stretched between them to keep the door
closed.

Definitely windows. It can get funky inside after a few days of sweat
and accumulated dirty underwear. And without windows you'll need a
flashlight any time you go in the yurt. I cut two 1' x 1' windows, one
on a side wall and one in the opposite end through the roof. The
positioning is for ventilation so cooler air enters through the bottom
vent and exits through the top one. I used furnace filters taped to
the outside. They are corrugated paper so you want to mount them with
the ridges pointing up and down rather than side to side to help keep
dust from collecting in the ridges. Save the foam you cut out for the
window vents so you can tape hinge it on the inside to close the
window. I had enough light filtering through the furnace filters to
see OK during the daytime.

The three of you should be able to erect it by yourselves, but it's
easy to just ask anyone nearby to lend a hand when you need to set the
roof on top of the walls. I like your idea for sealing the floors.
Taping the walls to the tarp floor is a hassel and waste of tape. I
bought a tarp for the floor and marked the outline of the yurt with a
magic marker during my test set up at home, which made it a lot easier
to position the walls in place when erecting the yurt on the playa. I
just sealed the floor/tarp joint with a bunch of rolled up towels, but
your tube sock sounds much more elegant. This year I plan to put foam
peel 'n stick weatherstripping on all the bottom edges of my walls so
the weight of the yurt will compress the foam and create an easy seal.

Good luck,

Bill

On Jan 9, 9:39 pm, Colorado_Althea <lindsaygrindst...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Phil Dirt]

PS: Here's how I used sheet metal flashing to anchor my hexayurt to
rebar stakes with ratcheting cargo straps.
/Users/billsenger/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Modified/2011/Aug 20, 2011/
IMGP0336.JPG

/Users/billsenger/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Originals/2011/Burning Man
2011/IMGP0373.JPG

[Lindsay Baugh-Grindstaff]

Thanks Phil can u maybe email me those pics directly tho they did not come thru the MSG board to my phone.
Lindsayg...@gmail.com

Thanks again everyone!

Linds

Sent from my iPhone

[Alejandro Moreno]

Lindsay, 

Last summer at BM, I built an H13 hexayurt, with the Camp Danger Hinge technique.  

The H13 uses 13 panels instead of 12.  This 13th panel gives you a taller entrance, allowing people to stand up comfortably inside the yurt, and that extra headroom also gives you more cooling, since it allows the warm air to rise further away from your head whether sitting or standing.

The Camp Danger hinge technique allows you to use tape for all your hinges, and requires no beveling.  If you'd rather bevel your edges, and don't care that much about having extra headroom, than use the regular 8 foot design.  However, if you like the pluses of the H13 design (and I did immensely), then go for it.

We set a tarp down on the ground, and then taped it up on the outside.  However, this used a lot of tape, and ended up peeling some of the reflective paper off of the panels, and that's not good.

However, it still is in good enough condition for me to use it again in the future.  I saved all my panels (of course).  And left as much of the tape hinges intact as I could.  I will have to retape some next year though.

I only put in 1 window, using a furnace filter.  When you want cross draft, with only 1 window, you'd have to open the door.  That might be bad if it's really windy out (and say, you're at BM, then you're getting major dust inside your yurt).  However, with a 2nd window, you don't have to open your door to get a cross draft.  Next time I'm putting in a 2nd window for sure, and maybe even one of those spinning roof vents.  Swamp coolers sound really great too, as during the hottest part of the day, it does get fairly warm inside the yurt, enough to make you sweat if you're even doing something as simple as i.e. sweeping.  Though I have not built one myself yet.  Here are some links on the H13 and on the Camp Danger Hinge Technique:   

Hexayurt H13 - Appropedia: The sustainability wiki

http://dylantoymaker.net/toybox/2010/10/20/hexayurt/

Camp Danger Hinge technique:  http://hexayurt.com/

Thread on the H13: https://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt/browse_thread/thread/66df3ffd445cd7d8?pli=1

Enjoy!

-Alejandro

--

-Alejandro Moreno S.

GreenMBA, Dominican University of California

Cell (415) 578-8731 

LinkedIn

[Alejandro Moreno]

Sorry, forgot to mention, I used rope tie-downs at each point on the outside of the yurt to give it extra strength against strong winds.  Simple rebar hammered into the ground, then I put foam insulation tubing over the rebar so no one bangs their foot into it walking at night in the dark or impale themselves on it.  You can also put simple soda bottles over the tips of the rebar, but that doesn't prevent someone from kicking it walking around in the dark, only the impaling part.  

I tied rope onto the rebars, made a loop with a knot, then taped the knot to the roof points.  I believe I had 5 tie-downs.  

I also used the "alternate H13 design", which allowed me to build the H13 in 2 sections here at home, and allowed me to fold them up into one perfect stack of panels all neat and tidy.  This allowed for an extremely easy setup and take-down on the playa, most of which was done between 2 people (during set-up, we did get an extra hand from a 3rd to lift the roof section onto the wall section).  

Here is an awesome webpage describing the design we did (with diagrams and pics and everything):  http://www.appropedia.org/Hexayurt_H13#Alternate_design

Word of (potential) caution:  The H13, because of the placing of that 13th panel, creates more surface area hence increased resistance to wind (as opposed to the regular 8 foot design which, not having as big a "face", lets the wind slip around itself more aerodynamically).  However, from what I've heard/read so far, no one has had any major problems with wind and the H13.  So far.  And no, last summer at BM was not a true test, due to the unusually weak winds those days, which is uncharacteristic of the playa.  

-Alejandro

[Pete Baker]

Hi Linds,

I made a rope halo out of paracord for last years burn which was super-successful.  It was pretty cheap, easy to make beforehand and made pitching and striking the yurt a piece of cake.   The paracord is lightweight and comes in MANY COLOURS!!!!!   Definitely easier than using standard tape tie downs (I did this in 2007 and 2008) as you don't use tape, you can prepare the halo in advance and get it attached and taught on playa in literally 2 minutes.

You can find some images of the rope halo here, including a rough sketch of how to make it:

• http://imgur.com/a/bu3qy
  

I think I only used 4 guy lines in the end rather than 6, but you may want more for a bigger hexayurt.  You need to make use of 3 knots to get it to work: 

• a bowline to loosely attach each of the guy lines to the halo (the tension on the lines keeps them in place)
  
• a taut line hitch to make the guy lines adjustable, as you'll want to check that its tight every day
• a double fisherman's to make the rope halo length adjustable if needed

Instructions on how to do all the knots can be found on this page: http://www.animatedknots.com/indexscouting.php. Unfortunately I don't have the lengths of the ropes but its pretty easy to figure out once you get going.   Remember - no knots on playa, its all done in advance - you just need to attach the whole thing to your rebar and tighten up the taut line hitches and BOOM you are done.   

Hope this helps, I'll try to put together a more exhaustive diagram and set of instructions soon.

Comments welcome!!!

Pete

[Lucas González]

Can someone put this in a wikipage in appropedia? In some appropriate place? Simplest looks under the Playa page, maybe as "useful comments" or something.
I feel there's need for an "advanced user cool-comments place".
Would "Hexayurt Experts Tips" be a good name for such a wikipage?
If someone has time for _starting_ the job, that would be great. Just a frame for next cool bits.
Makes sense?
Lucas

2012/1/11 ups...@gmail.com <ups...@gmail.com>

[Chasomatic]

I put 4 furnace filter vents (about 8"x 6" each) on the roof of my hexayurt last year. Putting them up high allowed plenty of air to move in the hexayurt, and let in a lot of light. No lights were needed in daytime. The filters keep dust out and provide light, just what i needed.

I think windows will really compromise the thermal barrier of the hexayurt and provide almost a sure entrance for dust. They may be cool to look out of but when the sun is coming in it will get hot. Maybe curtains for windows?

Charlie

[Alejandro Moreno]

Hi Lindsay,

I only put in 1 window last year in my H13 hexayurt, and I put a furnace filter (the "Eco--pleat" filter) in the rectangular hole that I cut out for the window (though you really should have at least 2 windows and place a furnace filter in each one, tape around the edges to seal them, I'll explain why you should have at least 2 below and why any holes you make for windows shouldn't just be left as open holes with no protective barrier inserted). 

• You do not want unprotected holes (windows) in your walls or ceiling.  You need to seal them somehow.  Leaving open holes in your yurt walls or ceiling will let in dust and heat, and will defeat the purpose of your yurt.
• I think furnace filters are best, as they are microfine and will do a good job of keeping out playa dust (which is unbelievably invasive and extra extra fine). 
• I did not put my window up on the ceiling because I thought it would be too much direct sunlight upon it.  So I put it down in one of the base panel sections, almost diametrically across from the door. 
• The door I placed opposite the sunrise, so that the weakest sun of the day would be on the "backside" of the yurt.  Placing the window/furnace filter across from the door allowed for efficient cross-breeze if I opened my door.  However, I'd recommend putting in 2 windows (2 is more than enough for light and for a cross-breeze) because that way you don't have to open your door for a cross-breeze like I did in having only 1 window (and opening your door gives dust an opportunity to get inside).
• Whether to use regular hinges or not depends on the materials you are using.  If you are building one out of plywood, then I would tend to lean towards real hinges because of the weight of the plywood.  I however decided against the plywood and built my H13 out of RMAX 1" thick polyiso panels (not the cheap blue/pink colored polystyrene, but polyiso, the real deal).  Strong, light, excellent insulation factor, 2 people can set most of it up by themselves, and you'll need a 3rd person for a few moments to put the roof section onto the base section.  To break it all down, you'll only need 2.  I used the Camp Danger Hinge technique for my hinges.  This allowed me to avoid the need to mitre all the edges of my panels, saving me lots of time.  Of course, you need to buy the bidirectional filament tape, both 6" and 2" rolls, which you can order from hexayurttape.com.  You do not want to use regular hinges with insulation panels, as you will have to be drilling holes into the panels, reinforcing them with small steel plates, and having to use washers most likely to both anchor the screws as well as distributing the pressure from tightening the screws down against the steel plates and panels.  I just don't think regular hinges are worth it, especially with insulation panels, and only for a few days of camping at a time.  Seriously... 
• If you want extra head room, and a nice tall door, go with the H13 design.  The extra headroom also means that with that higher ceiling the H13 gives you, there is more space above where the heat can rise into, above your head, instead of keeping the heat down lower where it would make you more uncomfortable.
• There is an H13 design, and there is an alternative H13 design.  I built the alternative design, which as I mentioned earlier, uses the Camp Danger Hinge technique, in case you get confused about which one to use.  Though even if you go with the standard 12 panel 8' high design yurt, you can still use the Camp Danger hinge technique with your insulation panels, and I again recommend against using regular hinges here.
• Yes, your dust solution sounds like it could work.  I bought a huge 30' x 20' foot plastic tarp with grommets (not cheap), but it worked great as I used it for my floor, and then I taped around the outside of the yurt, creating a seal from the outside, instead of creating a seal on the inside.  The advantage is it never lets dust in at all, because the dust is stopped on the outside before ever getting in.  Your design will let dust in, granted just a little bit, but it will come in a tad, though your barrier should work well on not letting the dust get past it.  The nice thing about your idea is it won't use up tape, which you have to throw away later, and that's not very "sustainable". Additionally, the tape, when you peel it off of your yurt and/or tarp, will leave old dried glue where the tape used to be (depending on the tape you use also).  Worse yet, it could peel off some of the outer foil covering that is on the surface of your polyiso insulation panels.  You can always cover any tears in the foil covering with foil tape, which you can get at any hardware store like Home Despot.    

If you'd like to see what mine looked like, I have some pics here:  https://picasaweb.google.com/107900555581651767370/H13Hexayurt?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCIOZgIPix6vX8wE&feat=directlink

Happy Trails!

-Alejandro 

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[Vinay Gupta (Hexayurt Shelter Project)]

You know, it's only about five years ago when I was about the only person who knew how to build hexayurts for the Playa - back in 2006 or 2007 there were maybe three or four a year, and it was pretty much "Vinay, how do we..?"

Very fun to see the community become the master of the art. Thank you!

V>

[Pichard Kempo Karate]

I'd never go on the playa without my yurt, I love it...
I have added solar powered lights on the inside, christmas lights on
the outside, carpet, swamp cooler... much better than an RV!!!

- fabien

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[Lindsay Baugh-Grindstaff]

Wow that is awesome!!! Do you have any pics I am def looking at decor options as well.

Lindsay

Sent from my iPhone