thoughts on the pavilion, please ask other communities about their experiences before proceeding any further

[Jacobson]

Aloha Pavilion Committee
I have serious concerns about an open pavion in HA. Please read this
longish opinion. I worked as an elected official in this area for 6
years, worked as ahonme health nurse and hospital nurse before that.
I own property in HA and I've lived here for more than 30 years. I
love communit volunteers and honor their work.

I initially helped plan and fund a pavilion in Fern Forest. It seemed
a very good idea. Sadly, after it was built several community members
and many non-members found it a convenient place to drink alcohol,
smoke and sell drugs, traffic in stolen merchandise, turn tricks,
brutalize oothers and do other illegal stuff, and threaten residents.
Despite constant efforts by the community, the police, the proscuting
attorney and their own neighborhood watch the pavilion remained an
attractive nuisance. People were being beaten, cars parked at the
parking lot were being broken into and eventually the school buses
felt it was too dangerous to drop children off there. Eventually the
building was torn down after a lot of damage to the community and a
lot of money was spent.

A brief history of the HACA pavilion: Most of you were not living in
HA when we had to tear down a huge pavilion HACA had built in the
1960s for an equipment shed. After we sold the road equipment, it had
been a recycling place with a little library and was really quite nice
but had no lockable openings and was not fully enclosable. In the
90's the ice dealers and assholes took it over as soon as the office
staff would leave. By 2000 it was a place where people met to deal
drugs even when HACA events were going on during the day. I saw girls
turning tricks or paying for drugs with their services even during
HACA events. Many times the police were called but the thugs all have
police scanners and usually fled before police could come.

If you want to learn more ask any old timer. Ken Cutting and others
made efforts to clean the place up with help from other but I think
Ken's life was threatened a few times. Sadly, the place had to be
torn down because we were unable to lock it up and provide 24 hour a
day security. We spent a lot of money to fix it up over the years
because someone came by and tried to burn it a few times

Building the pavilion is cheap but which of you is willing to provide
the needed security for the rest of the life of the pavilion? Because
if you build it and it is not completely lockable and equipped with
burglar alarms it will become a big dangerous nuisance.and you are
committing the rest of the community to fund security. If this is not
done properly, you are creating a home for scumbags to hang out and
brutalize anyone who comes near. Then with our savings and funds
nearly exhausted we will eventually have to pay to tear it down.

If you have doubts about this, go to the Glenwood Park any time of the
day. It is where heroin dealers and users have taken the place for
thier own. The police cannot successfully evict them, the park is
unusable by innocent people and is a brutal place 24 hours a day.

Ask the Fern Forest people you know, how they felt about the pavilion
they had nest to their fire station (but stand back, they were really
pissed the thing got built). Ask them if they were happy to fund the
building and them pay to take it down. Ask the neighbors how their
breakins increased after it was built and how things improved after it
was torn down.

If you don't address these problems now you are only doing damge to
our savings and the community. I know you have the best of intentions
as other pavilion groups did, but despite the application of
communtity poling funds, construction and repair funds from the
community, efforts of neighborhood watch volunteers and other esources
the pavilions were an abysmal drag on the communities they were in.

Some people think that a community the size of Puna is like a mainland
communtiy. Well, we have very different challenges. Hawaiian Acres
is larger than many mainland cities and has to share 1-3 policeman for
an area bigger than Oahu.

Things are not the same as where I was raised. It was a towm of
60,000 and most houselots were about a quarter acre and there were
many apartments. Most people had jobsand we had paved roads
everywhere. We don't have those conditions and may never have those
benefits.Taxes on homes in the 1960s were $300 (today that translates
into $3000-4000 a year) or more on every house with a rich section on
the other side of town. Here taxes are low and most people don't pay
more than $400/year in taxes. Areas are larger here and nobody wants
to pay for the government services needed to protect such a huge area.
I don't want to be where I was raised and I manage some of my own
services the government might normally be expected to provide if we
felt like paying for them.

Lastly, will this be a permitted building that is insurable? Because
it will be torn down or closed if it isn't.

Mahalo
Bob Jacobson

On 5/14/12, HAWLECORP <hawl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> HAWLECORP
> hawl...@gmail.com
> geoffrey
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[Kenneth Cutting]

The building was torn down BY criminals.

[Sharon Justice]

In my opinion as a board member representing our community, we should
continue with our present plan for a pavillion, which is essentially
to pour a concrete slab, with a roof, in a location which can be
plainly viewed from the road. There will be no upkeep, and nothing to
actually break into. It will be both permitted and insured. It will
provide a place for the community members to come together, rain or
shine, and its construction will send a message to our families that
we want people to come and enjoy the benefits of our center, rather
than a message that we have very little to offer as an incentive to
pay membership dues. The committee is working to obtain at least
partial funding in the form of a grant, significantly reducing the
amount needed from the HACA budget. I hope that the board can come
together on this. We need a boost!

Sharon Justice
Area 3 Representative

[hawl...@gmail.com]

Thanks Sharon for your well reasoned and reasonable reply/statement. I
agree wholeheartedly. We have a wonderful opportunity here to promote
positivity.

> > On 5/14/12, HAWLECORP <hawlec...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> HAWLECORP
> >> hawlec...@gmail.com

[diana]

I think that if we build a pavilion, it should be available to the members on for a small fee, similar to the community center. This will make using it a membership benefit, which will hopefully encourage more people to join HACA. Having said that, I think we need to try to secure it somehow, so we don't have people permanently occupying the structure, like the small park up in Glenwood. HACA is unique from many other community associations in that we have voluntary membership, so we should be working to support our membership, not everyone who lives in or near the community.

I do not believe that we should not be planning to use community funds from a voluntary membership association to build a pavilion that will be open to the public. As a permitted structure, the pavilion will raise the property taxes. Our insurance will also go up. If we really want to have an open to the public park/pavilion, we should have pursued getting a County Park here in Hawaiian Acres. We talked briefly about this a while back, but the idea faded away.

I have not attended to pavilion planning meetings, so I apologize if I raised concerns that have already been addressed.

I appreciate the info that Julie brought up about Fern Forest's experience. It may not seem like a lot of money that we would be spending, but there are increased recurring costs (Has anyone checked what the increase in taxes or insurance would be?) and considering our voluntary membership in challenging economic times, I think we should move cautiously.

And finally, sorry for be so out of it the last HACA meeting. I was almost comatose from lack of sleep and upset over the dog/cat thing that happened on Sun night.

diana

[Pmacs]

1: I think we should triple charge all the community subdivisions who have been using our private paid building services for nothing .
Stainback through Orchidland pay nothing.
Do Not charge us who pay more.
2: there is no reason we have the only privately paid community center.
Plenty grants open.
County owes us 22 million per mile for our only public used road .
Get that $$$
We had a plan.
I own land in fern forest. Happy to explain the politics of how that went down.
See $$$ to Orchidland , volcano. Who did not pay for their private community centers. Because the politicians live there. . But they charge plenty.
3: people Should know by now that comparing fern forest to Hawaiian acres is iceheadscrackaddicts to mellow H A on a paved road. Police access.
Since refused the park next to CC. Then the neighbors will be calling constantly anyway. We have neighbors. Fern forest did not.
No comparison to the two associations
(I posted an email. Not shown )
Fern forest was shut down over one person from nebraska who continues to control fern forest after removed from board.
Fern forest CC was shut down by politics.

[Amber Lopez - AIS]

I've not researched how much the taxes would increase however per your
current agent the insurance would increase roughly $200 per month for
the pavilion and additional $200 for the Saturday gathering/market
however I'm in the process of obtaining other quotes and will notify
Philip as soon as I receive them.

Thanks,
Amber

[Steph Bath]

Aloha all,
The Puna Community development plan has outline goals and objectives for Puna. We can review this plan within the HACA sphere or as group outside of HACA in a less formal environment. We can come up with a list of  criteria in requesting a gathering place within private subdivisions, perhaps adjacent to two subdivisions. There is the possibility of overlaying this project with open space fund usage and connectivity issues.
This is really to complex a topic for  discussion in this string.

Relating more specifically to the pavilion issue:

 Some of you may recall that Noah Bath, born and raised here and living in HA all his life, approached the HACA board some years ago. He was working towards Eagle rank in the Boy scouts. For his service project he submitted a proposal to the HACA board with a plan to design the pavilion. He was going to solicit materials and approach a contractor if needed, etc.. His presentation was warmly embraced by the HACA board.
 At the time Julie Jacobson was  a committee chair. Noah was told by Julie that she would be following up with him shortly to solidify details and sign on as the contact person.
After over a month of no follow up Noah decided that the support was not there.He didn't want to be pushy.We explained that people get busy and perhaps it was not time for the project at HACA.

He decided to do an invasive eradication and reforestation project in HVNP.
Turned out to be a service project that is still being referred to at the aloha council.

Kind of a shame that action was not taken to tap into and support a boy scout with enthusiasm and energy.As stated HACA has  already embraced the idea of a pavilion years ago. (2009? see old minutes) Things change.HACA  does not have a strong membership. Local membership is 90? 

Whats the point?
Two things:
1.The pavilion idea has already been embraced by HACA. Perhaps the timing was just off.
2. HACA can come from a space of fear and doubt in discussions about planned goals. Another choice is to embrace the future
    with faith and hope and enthusiasm.

Here are some talking points:

What is the  intent of the pavilion under discussion?
multi cultural gathering place? swap meet site? facility for family gatherings? homeschoolers classroom? 
 
What location would best serve our community/ies?

Is the HACA lot the best place for such a structure that would serve Puna and our community. Does HACA want this pavilion built as a way to make $$$?

Can we get County support and funding?

What criteria is in place for pavilion design?
 



 
Things will manifest themselves with shared vision!
Stephanie

[Steph Bath]

One last comment. In the spirit of good will, civility and also with the possibility that youth may be monitoring this public string, might I suggest that strong and crude language be withheld from our discussions. I find is is not consistent with the spirit of the charter of HA.

[Pmacs]

U mean open to "all" for a fee. People seem confused on who members here.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 21, 2012, at 11:14, Steph Bath <step...@gmail.com> wrote:

> HACA.

[david dictor]

thank you, sharon! i agree completely!

[Philip Tait]

On Tuesday, May 22, 2012 10:45:33 AM UTC-10, Cdpworkinggroup wrote:

U mean open to "all" for a fee. People seem confused on who members here.

This discussion group is open to anyone with an interest in Hawaiian Acres, regardless of any memberships. 

[Jacobson]

Aloha kakou
Our bylaws are very clear about our (HACA's) purpose. We are
chartered to benefit members. It is part of the charter filed with
the state. Benefiting members allows us to use our resources for
members. If we are able to benefit members and the community, so much
the better. However, our actions should not abuse the funds that are
raised by HACA from members and act as a detriment to our finances, or
create serious liabilities for members. Our annual fee is so low that
people who don't join have little justification for not joining. I
believe that if you want community benefits from HACA you should at
least try to help, instead of just using our resources. I don't pay
three memberships just to give money away to people who aren't paying
their own freight or to create an attractive nuisance that will
attract nighttime lowlifes and criminal behavior. Let them hang out at
the Glenwood Park or at the Kurtistown pavilion.
Bob Jacobson

> This discussion group is open to anyone with an interest in Hawaiian Acres,
> regardless of any memberships.
>

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[Steph Bath]

Sharon,
Mahalo! You have a beautiful intent! As a "non-member" I feel that this is the intent and energy that will draw people into HACA as a gathering place.
HACA is clear in  its charter on what the purpose is. HACA is not about membership. Again Sharon, thank you for the "light" you shine.
Stephanie

On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 12:06 PM, Lee M-S and sometimes Storm <stei...@gmail.com> wrote:

Are members payments of road and association fees public record, so anyone can take a look?  That doesn't seem right. 
And it seems exceptionally wrong to post that kind of information here.
lee

At 01:22 PM 5/26/2012, you wrote:

As a matter of fact you have paid no road fees or association fees. We checked the records. Thank  you.

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