My First Robot...?

[Tamsyn Michael]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/19LsFuKmBgKtkqmkHkKizFh4S8bjGPOoUeJypeRv5PNY/edit?hl=es

What do you guys think of this as a 'first robot' type build?  Jose has shared his programming and it looks relatively simple.  Would it be possible to print most of the parts?  I do like the carbon fibre build, but it sounds prohibitively expensive.  How about printed plastic, and wire for the legs?  Or straws?  Or bamboo skewers?  (you get the idea).  I really like the fact that it has 'personalities' - and can see it being easily controllable in assisted mode with just a universal remote (which I already have).

At least I hope that would work.  Does anyone know how hard it would be to teach an arduino to understand IR input instead of radio input?  Anyone used IR to control an arduino project before (apart from the repeaters Damien built, which while cool, would be a different mechanism, yeah?)?

I found this on thingiverse:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5156
and a better looking one derived from it:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5454
Which looks like a close approximation for the hexapod above (ie they appear to work in the same way - so the programming won't require too many changes) - too hopeful?

I'd need
- printed body / legs - $2-3 ???
- ardupilot - http://www.sparkfun.com/products/8785 - $24.95
- some way to program the arduino (if I could borrow this that'd be great - it's got the firmware already loaded)
- IR Receiver http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10266 - $1.95
- Remote control - Already have
- Fine coated wire for wiring it up (plenty of these around the place, on freecycle, etc)
- Battery - not sure on the power required, but was thinking mobile phone batteries are plentiful and cheap (and I've already got a couple of spares somewhere I'm sure) - so 4.7v in and about 3.8 out from memory - or 2 of these in series?
- servomotors
    - 9g one - http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9065 $8.95
    - 16g ones - http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10333 ???? - $10.95 x 2

Okay, wow, my math was way off.  It's double what I thought it was, and actually looks way more difficult than I'd envisioned.  But now that I've typed it all out, what do you guys think of it?

[Jonathan Wheare]

Some quick thoughts:

It's a cute little bot - and you are quite correct the strength requirements are low enough that I expect you could replace the frame with a printed one.

for IR control, there is an IR transceiver library for Arduino here: http://www.arcfn.com/2009/08/multi-protocol-infrared-remote-library.html
I have some 40KHz IR receivers in my bits box, but I will have to dig them out,

All things being equal I don't think you need an Ardupilot.  The specialised board seems to have the pins already organised for you, but you can drive servos quite happily from a plain arduino.  I have a couple of full sized and micro-servos in my bits box if you wish to experiment.

I would be a bit twitchy about recommending mobile phone batteries.  LiPo cells are very particular about charging cycles, and incorrect handling can cause spectacular results: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-AoAYrEy-o
Maybe Jorn can comment?

You may also want to chat to Pix, he printed out some parts for some small bots from this design:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4954

J.

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[Tamsyn Michael]

Thanks Jonathan, that gives me some good ideas to be going on with.  I have a couple of old DVD players which work, but are missing remotes.  Should I bring one and take it apart?  For a servo and IR receiver?

[Tamsyn Michael]

So... What arduino should I be looking at?  Any recommendations?  Something cheaper than the above would be nice (though it's kind of cool)

[Kim Hawtin]

thoughts on where to get suitable servos for something like this?

cheers,

Kim
--
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calculating."  --SKR

[Steven Pickles]

At the last hack session, Simon did an order from this place: http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/527663150-4pcs-Tower-Pro-Rc-Mini-Micro-9g-Servo-SG90-for-RC-250-450-Helicopter-Airplane-Car-wholesalers.html since he was gettinga bunch of servos for a hexapod.

pix

[Steven Pickles]

Actually on Littlebird, the Ardupilot is cheaper than an official Arduino Uno ;) 

Although, that is probably because that model ArduPilot (called the Legacy on the DiyDrones site) is just an Arduino with headers designed for plugging in additional sensors and GPS units (from the rest of the ArduPilot family). It doesn't have any sensors of it's own. The only real feature is that it has a dedicated servo driver chip on it (not really necessary for a low end robot).

Assuming you don't already have one, I would just get a "normal" Arduino Uno (or cheap clone) for a simple robot. They are more accessible (nice headers you can stick wires in to and a USB port) than any of the specialised derivatives. There are also plenty lying around at hackerspace if you want to start your project without dropping money on one first (it will probably be your single largest expense). 

I can also understand the attraction to following a project where you know you will get something working at the end of it.

Since it seems to be a common thread, is anyone interested in collaborating on a "my first robot" kit? printable chassis, based heavily on the skybot. basic arduino brain. what would a "my first robot" need to be able to do to be a satisfying place to start? line following? distance sensing? when I say collaborate, I mean i'm happy to do all the technical bits, i'd like to know what a beginner is looking for in a first robot.

pix

On 18 June 2012 16:26, Tamsyn Michael <tamsyn.j...@gmail.com> wrote:

So... What arduino should I be looking at?  Any recommendations?  Something cheaper than the above would be nice (though it's kind of cool)

[Fee Plumley]

this beginner would like to not destroy her second robot by not being able to solder. (at east i always assumed that's why it didn't work).

also interested in playing with this. beginning to think that cosycup shouldn't be my first arduino project. starting with something more, um, proven, would be a massive bonus.

count me in!

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[Tamsyn Michael]

Oooh, I'm keen (obviously).  I can't meet up just yet though.

I think Robyn's robot could be a good prototype for things people would like.  Only thing is it's actually probably more 'intermediate' (at the very least) - even once it's put together.

Robyn - how is programming for it?

We need to all have the same base I guess.  Depends.  I like the hexapod (mostly because it looks cool) but I imagine it would be more difficult to program for.   That leaves some kind of 2 wheeled design (or even tracked?) as a base...?

Is programming different for different Arduinos?  If so we would all need the same one (if not it doesn't matter so much).

I have actually sources a few cool body things on Freecycle.  Dummy camera housings.  Sadly I won't be able to pick them up for a couple of weeks (it looks like atm :() - anyone drive past Gawler South?  We could have 4 bodies...?

[Steven Pickles]

the idea in my head would need minimal soldering for putting the right kinds of pins on servos/sensors. and if that is too terrifying, you could use one of the screw-terminal arduino shields to bypass soldering all together (though the robot will have fragile wings) http://littlebirdelectronics.com/products/screw-shield-v2-for-arduino

pix

[Damien P]

On Monday, June 18, 2012 6:02:00 PM UTC+9:30, pix wrote:

At the last hack session, Simon did an order from this place: http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/527663150-4pcs-Tower-Pro-Rc-Mini-Micro-9g-Servo-SG90-for-RC-250-450-Helicopter-Airplane-Car-wholesalers.html since he was gettinga bunch of servos for a hexapod.

I notice that hobbyking.com sell servos for $2 as well.  They're in Hong Kong for cheaper shipping but they have some stuff in Australia.  I've added them to the Retailers wiki page.

[Jamie Mackenzie]

The website Let's Make Robots (LMR) has very detailed build instructions for a beginner robot.  Lots of photos, videos, instructions, etc.  It is based on Picaxe however.

http://letsmakerobots.com/start 

Also, Hobby King has a physical store in Adelaide now, 100 Glen Osmond Road, Parkside.  Their prices are not as good as the online store, but comparable once you factor in savings on postage.  There is the piece of mind that you can take back anything that is faulty straight away too.

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[Matthew Croucher]

Hi Pix,

I'd be interested in collaborating on a 'my first robot' kit project. I
had been plotting something like this, based on PCB's & header
connectors as both electrical & structural components, however since
getting my reprap have now been thinking about printed parts surrounding
a PCB or two. I'm interested in working on the engineering and design of
the kit, but if you want to go it alone, let us know.

Also talking about kits, Sparkfun's ProtoSnap Minibot kit is
interesting, I like their provision of sensors in a snap-off
arrangement, so that once you've finished with the robot as a kit, it's
easily cannibalized for the next one :D.
http://www.sparkfun.com/products/11012Bit pricey tho.

Cheers,

Matt

> <mailto:tamsyn.j...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> So... What arduino should I be looking at? Any recommendations?
> Something cheaper than the above would be nice (though it's kind
> of cool)
>
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[Damien P]

On Monday, June 18, 2012 6:28:29 PM UTC+9:30, pix wrote:

line following? distance sensing?

Can that hexapod turn corners?

[Steven Pickles]

Which hexapod?

pix

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[Damien P]

On Monday, June 18, 2012 8:47:42 PM UTC+9:30, pix wrote:

Which hexapod?

 

The one Tamsyn originally suggested.  I should have watched the video: it shows it turning on the spot.

[Steven Pickles]

really? *goes to look* which video shows it turning?

pix

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[Tamsyn Michael]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqUhlYrN_Po

It doesn't move very fast, but the video with the cat has me sold.  :)

[Steven Pickles]

I was thinking a "first robot" shouldn't need any PCB beyond the arduino.

Looking around it seems there are plenty of arduno based derivatives of the miniskybot, like the Scout http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:13042 which is super-minimal.

Some requirements that they don't seem to meet for me are: 

- rubber bands instead of o-rings for the wheels (large o-rings proved really hard to source)

- example arduino sketch included with the design on thingiverse

ArduSpider is pretty cool though (even though it is technically more of an ant or a beetle)

pix

On 18 June 2012 20:05, Matthew Croucher <unit...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Pix,

I'd be interested in collaborating on a 'my first robot' kit project. I had been plotting something like this, based on PCB's & header connectors as both electrical & structural components, however since getting my reprap have now been thinking about printed parts surrounding a PCB or two. I'm interested in working on the engineering and design of the kit, but if you want to go it alone, let us know.

Also talking about kits, Sparkfun's ProtoSnap Minibot kit is interesting, I like their provision of sensors in a snap-off arrangement, so that once you've finished with the robot as a kit, it's easily cannibalized for the next one :D. http://www.sparkfun.com/products/11012Bit pricey tho.

Cheers,

Matt

On 18/06/2012 6:28 PM, Steven Pickles wrote:

Actually on Littlebird, the Ardupilot is cheaper than an official Arduino Uno ;)

Although, that is probably because that model ArduPilot (called the Legacy on the DiyDrones site) is just an Arduino with headers designed for plugging in additional sensors and GPS units (from the rest of the ArduPilot family). It doesn't have any sensors of it's own. The only real feature is that it has a dedicated servo driver chip on it (not really necessary for a low end robot).

Assuming you don't already have one, I would just get a "normal" Arduino Uno (or cheap clone) for a simple robot. They are more accessible (nice headers you can stick wires in to and a USB port) than any of the specialised derivatives. There are also plenty lying around at hackerspace if you want to start your project without dropping money on one first (it will probably be your single largest expense).

I can also understand the attraction to following a project where you know you will get something working at the end of it.

Since it seems to be a common thread, is anyone interested in collaborating on a "my first robot" kit? printable chassis, based heavily on the skybot. basic arduino brain. what would a "my first robot" need to be able to do to be a satisfying place to start? line following? distance sensing? when I say collaborate, I mean i'm happy to do all the technical bits, i'd like to know what a beginner is looking for in a first robot.

pix

On 18 June 2012 16:26, Tamsyn Michael <tamsyn.j...@gmail.com <mailto:tamsyn.j.michael@gmail.com>> wrote:

   So... What arduino should I be looking at?  Any recommendations?     Something cheaper than the above would be nice (though it's kind
   of cool)

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[Tamsyn Michael]

Happy to go with a simpler design first, and work my way up.  Keen to see if others want to do one of these.  I've found a cheap source *I think* for the Uno:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/UNO-Arduino-Compatible-ATmega328P-PU-ATMEGA8U2-AVR-MCU-board-USB-2-0-Cable-/270944402040?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item3f158b7a78
He also sells ultrasonic distance sensors:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Ultra-Sonic-range-measurement-module-SR04-Arduino-UNO-Mega-2560-Seeeduino-/270963453587?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item3f16ae2e93
Which any of these projects will need.  Though, looking around, there are much cheaper options from other shops.

As for the price of the Uno, this guy seemed to have less negative feedback for his, but there are cheaper ones out there.  Or maybe we should go with someone reputable and pay a bigger price?

Or find a shop where we can get it all.  We should get numbers on a kit.  I might ask some other geek mates if they're keen to build their own cheapish (<$50) robot too...?

[Tamsyn Michael]

PS - scrap that.  I'll build a basic robot first, and show it around.  I'm happy to go with your design pix as everything but the body will be reusable in the hexapod.  :)

[Tamsyn Michael]

PPS - though this is tempting:
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=XC4222
Considering the whole Cellbot future I'm planning.  That is if it does what it says it does and allows a plug and play approach to communication with my phone.

[Robyn Willison]

This looks like a good project

http://www.budgetrobotics.com/item/Build-Your-First-Robot-BYFR-Chassis-from-Popular-Mechanics-Magazine-345

Robyn

On 18/06/2012 4:26 PM, Tamsyn Michael wrote:
> So... What arduino should I be looking at? Any recommendations?
> Something cheaper than the above would be nice (though it's kind of cool)
>

> --

[Ken]

Reminds me of the 'robot' put together from pluggable modules bought with tokens cut out of the Advertiser a few years back.
I have the assembled gadget sitting in a drawer somewhere.
It came with a big 'map' to use for line-following and programming it.
-The programs were read from bar-codes as it ran across them.
No-one else in the group collected those bits?
The manufacturer was supposed to make lots of pluggable modules, which people could assemble without a soldering iron.
Dunno what became of him.

Ken.
 

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[Kylie Willison]

Hi Ken
I bought two of these sets for my kids, they had fun with them at the time.  Don't know what happened to them, wish that I'd kept them now.

Kylie

On 19/06/2012 9:14 AM, Ken wrote:

Reminds me of the 'robot' put together from pluggable modules bought with tokens cut out of the Advertiser a few years back.
I have the assembled gadget sitting in a drawer somewhere.
It came with a big 'map' to use for line-following and programming it.
-The programs were read from bar-codes as it ran across them.
No-one else in the group collected those bits?
The manufacturer was supposed to make lots of pluggable modules, which people could assemble without a soldering iron.
Dunno what became of him.

Ken.
 

On 19 June 2012 09:00, Robyn Willison <ro...@robynspcs.com> wrote:

This looks like a good project

http://www.budgetrobotics.com/item/Build-Your-First-Robot-BYFR-Chassis-from-Popular-Mechanics-Magazine-345

Robyn

On 18/06/2012 4:26 PM, Tamsyn Michael wrote:

So... What arduino should I be looking at?  Any recommendations?
Something cheaper than the above would be nice (though it's kind of cool)

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[Robert Hart]

I have two boxes of small robot parts and real robots magazine I bought at a garage sale for $10, For anyone who wants them Free!  otherwise it most likely going into the recycle bin

 - http://lpilsley.co.uk/cybot/ - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Robots

[Tamsyn Michael]

I've been keeping an eye out for the real robots stuff on ebay on and off for years.  I'd love to give them a home.  :)

[Steven Pickles]

On 18 June 2012 18:28, Steven Pickles <thatp...@gmail.com> wrote:

Since it seems to be a common thread, is anyone interested in collaborating on a "my first robot" kit? printable chassis, based heavily on the skybot. basic arduino brain. what would a "my first robot" need to be able to do to be a satisfying place to start? line following? distance sensing? when I say collaborate, I mean i'm happy to do all the technical bits, i'd like to know what a beginner is looking for in a first robot.

So, what I wanted input on was: what is a beginner looking for in a first robot? (Ideally I'd like to hear from beginners on this)

Here is some low-hanging fruit (low cost, low complexity behaviours that a first robot could have)

Move? (wheels, walk)

Beep? (sound)

Follow? (line following)

Avoid? (distance sensing)

Touch? (bump sensors)

Anything I'm missing?

I'm picturing a super minimal Scout-like bot (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:13042), that has a distance sensor (either IR or Ultrasound) fixed on it. There are derivatives of Scout that have a servo mounted sensor but surely you can do something useful with a fixed sensor, given that the robot can turn on a dime.

pix

[Robert Hart]

It would seem they are yours now :)

On 19/06/2012 12:00 PM, Tamsyn Michael wrote:
> I've been keeping an eye out for the real robots stuff on ebay on and
> off for years. I'd love to give them a home. :)

[Jamie Mackenzie]

Light following is fairly basic and fun.

Would remote control be a bridge too far?  Whenever I built a basic robot I was bored rather quickly just watching it do stuff by itself.  Perhaps remote control could be an extension?

--

[Tamsyn Michael]

Well, as a beginner, I can say what I want I guess:

Distance sensing for sure (and object avoidance).
Also touch sensing, but rather than using bump switches I wanted to make my own:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Conductive-Rubber-Make-Touch-Sensitive-Robot-Skin/
And have it respond in some, animal like, way (for example purring or trilling at a soft touch, and growling or running away at a harder one) if possible.
I would like both remote control and autonomous modes (the coding for the ArduSpider might have some hints for that - I especially like the idea of 'moods' - i.e. if you tried to pat it when it was in 'hunting' mode it would attack.
Line following not so much, but it would be cool if it could track (and follow) certain colours (similar code I'm guessing?) - I'm sure I saw a tracking turret somewhere that shot at red t-shirts, but all I can find is this:
http://hacknmod.com/hack/diy-mini-tank-with-color-tracking-airsoft-turret/

I guess that's my wish list.  :)

[Fee Plumley]

i DON'T want to make a spider ;P

i don't actually really mind what it is, how it looks or really what it does. I would just very much like to build something start to finish that doesn't take 6 weeks and works by the end.

actually, yes. I'd love it to use sensors (light/movement) that triggers something (a movement/sound).

that should be simple enough, shouldn't it? 

thanks Tamsyn for driving the idea & everyone for pitching in :)

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[Tamsyn Michael]

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Fee Plumley <f...@technoevangelist.net> wrote:

i DON'T want to make a spider ;P

i don't actually really mind what it is, how it looks or really what it does. I would just very much like to build something start to finish that doesn't take 6 weeks and works by the end.

actually, yes. I'd love it to use sensors (light/movement) that triggers something (a movement/sound).

that should be simple enough, shouldn't it? 

thanks Tamsyn for driving the idea & everyone for pitching in :)

Oh, I'm very good at coming up with cool things I want, it's the following through bit that's hard :).  I thank Pix for offering to help us with the coding (and other ideas).

So a run down on what we've got so far:

• something with wheels (not a spider - and easier) - probably an arduino based derivative of the sky bot (like the scout bot)
• distance sensing (and response) - avoidance
  
• light and / or colour sensing (and response) - following?
• noise?

So to do that we need:

• Arduino (best we all get the same one - maybe even a bulk buy...?)
• www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/611793/0-569099323/shipping-free-Arduin-UNO-2011-ATMEGA328P-PU-ATMEGA8U2-AVR-MCU-Board-with-Free-USB-2-0.html - pretty cheap (if last year's is okay???) - $18 each w/usb
  
• Or $16.50 each if we get 10 through the same guy:
• http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/611793/211579370-569099784/shipping-free-by-DHL-Arduin-UNO-2011-ATMEGA328P-PU-ATMEGA8U2-AVR-MCU-Board-with-Free-USB.html
• I suggest paying BEFORE for such a big buy if we do go bulk buy though -- I've not bought anything through aliexpress before - so do these guys look legit?  Not that many sales, but then neither do many other arduino seller.  What he has sold looks good though.  :)
• I'm looking to get one, so happy to go first and get the $18 single buy one to give it a go first:
• http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/611793/0-569099323/shipping-free-Arduin-UNO-2011-ATMEGA328P-PU-ATMEGA8U2-AVR-MCU-Board-with-Free-USB-2-0.html
  

PS - If someone else does want to make the spider I just bought this:

http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/401202/211217728-492841598/Dia-2-0mm-x-500mm-RC-Plane-Carbon-Fiber-Rod-Free-Shipping-.html

Should be good for a heap of legs :)

[Fee Plumley]

Should be good for a heap of legs :)

*SHUDDER*

(but don't let that stop anyone else making one. i just might cringe frequently).

[Jamie Mackenzie]

Tamsyn, I would be a tiny bit careful with the cheap Arduinos from China.

Notice that on the site they never call it an "Arduino".  They say "ArduinUNO" instead, because Arduino is trademarked.  It's probably a clone, which may be absolutely fine...but then again they may also have skimped on quality to make it cheaper.  They do offer a 12 month warranty though, so there is some protection.

[Tamsyn Michael]

Yeah - figured it was something like that.  :(

[Steven Pickles]

Also, while Arduinos are awesome, they do tend to proliferate. So I would like to reiterate my offer to use one of the ones lying around at Hackerspace before doing a mass order of clones. Many of them are technically mine, but I'm not using them presently. I even have a blackwidow (arduino with built-in wifi) sitting around in the cage.

pix

On 19 June 2012 14:22, Tamsyn Michael <tamsyn.j...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yeah - figured it was something like that.  :(

[Jamie Mackenzie]

Don't let it dissuade you outright, just be aware that it's an Arduino clone that has some risks.

And some might say it's not in the spirit of open source.  There was an interesting article on Make about about it:

http://blog.makezine.com/2012/04/18/soapbox-counterfeit-open-source-hardware-knock-offs-101/ 

On 19 June 2012 14:22, Tamsyn Michael <tamsyn.j...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yeah - figured it was something like that.  :(

[Steven Pickles]

So, wondering out-loud, what's the cheapest option for making an arduino remote controllable? A ready-to-go shield (or a modified arduino) would be preferable to avoid having to fab something.

Wifi, bluetooth, IR, some other simple serial-over-radio module?

By the way tamsyn, I have an IOIO for your cellbot idea, it's not Arduino compatible but it's a microcontroller designed to talk to an android using usb hostmode.

pix

[Peter Wintulich]

Hello Robert,

I will collect them only if no one else puts up their hands.
I already have a full set from another members ebay sale. (only short the first 2 mags. I think.)
I think they can be programed to interact with each other. There are at least 8 addresses that can be selected for communication's.
At some stage when HS has a larger home I could being them in for some activities.
The full series allows construction of 2 units that can be controlled by hand held remote or by PC software by serial link to the hand controller.

Regards Peter

P.S. I have several of the Microbrick robots. There are still parts available from his MircoBrick web site. The Robots (first 2 products,not the RED ones)  are now also available with PICAXE processors and programing cable from the PICAXE web site.
I think he now works from home, as the office rent got too high.

On 19/06/12 10:19, Robert Hart wrote:

I have two boxes of small robot parts and real robots magazine I bought at a garage sale for $10, For anyone who wants them Free!  otherwise it most likely going into the recycle bin

 - http://lpilsley.co.uk/cybot/ - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Robots

-- 

Peter Wintulich

Voicetronix Pty. Ltd.
Level 1, 246 Pulteney Street,
ADELAIDE  5000
South Australia
AUSTRALIA
+61 8 8232 9112

[Mark Jessop]

Depends what you want to talk to I guess. Remember that you have limited IO on an Arduino, and things like Ethernet or Wifi shields chew up IO quickly.

Those cheap serial-over-radio modules make my cry inside. There's better options out there. I think i have a few spare bluetooth serial modules that you can use. That would certainly be simple, and will only use up one UART. (FOR FSM'S SAKE DON'T USE SOFTWARE SERIAL. THINK OF THE CHILDREN)

- Mark

[Damien P]

On Monday, June 18, 2012 9:32:44 PM UTC+9:30, pix wrote:

\Some requirements that they don't seem to meet for me are: 

- rubber bands instead of o-rings for the wheels (large o-rings proved really hard to source)

We were discussing these once before.  I found those preserving rings which worked perfectly, but aren't the cheapest or easiest to find.  I haven't come up with anything else.
 

- example arduino sketch included with the design on thingiverse

You could start with something really simple like getting it to spin in circles (each wheel turns a different way), or make a wired remote control.

On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 8:41:02 PM UTC+9:30, pix wrote:

So, wondering out-loud, what's the cheapest option for making an arduino remote controllable? A ready-to-go shield (or a modified arduino) would be preferable to avoid having to fab something.

The cheapest is probably the Nordic RF modules - about $2.50 each on ebay:

http://arduino.cc/playground/InterfacingWithHardware/Nrf2401

I'm not sure what you'd do at the transmitting end - another Arduino maybe?

Bluetooth might be an option; DealExtreme sells a module for about $8.50.  I've got one and been meaning to get it working.  I think it appears as a serial port to the computer.

I don't know how well IR would work.  The receivers are about $2 and you could re-use any remote control (provided you match the carrier frequencies of the remote and the receiver)\, but I haven't looked at which Arduino libraries are available.

[Steven Pickles]

well cost would have to consider both sides of the connection, the hardware connected to the arduino, and the controller itself. with wifi or bluetooth we can assume ppl will have access to a device with either (a laptop), so that makes them cheaper. for IR you probably need to consider the transmitter. also, while we can use existing stuff to cut down costs when prototyping, i'd want to find a solution that is cheap for ppl that don't have all the bits. eg, i'm not suggesting the blackwidow, even though i have  a spare one, because it's $90.

pix

[Damien P]

On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 9:11:39 PM UTC+9:30, Damien P wrote:

You could start with something really simple like getting it to spin in circles (each wheel turns a different way), or make a wired remote control.

I'm not sure what the Arduino way is of handling both input and output at once either, which will make programming a bit difficult.  I guess you register a callback with the library, which runs the code to start or stop the wheels.

[Tamsyn Michael]

I think I put my hand up, but I might not have.  Either way I think the best bet would be to use them for you to put together 2 working ones, rather than spread the bits around.  I'd love to have a look at the mags though, and read through and start putting things together at the space.

cheers,

Tamsyn

--

[Tamsyn Michael]

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 9:14 PM, Steven Pickles <thatp...@gmail.com> wrote:

well cost would have to consider both sides of the connection, the hardware connected to the arduino, and the controller itself. with wifi or bluetooth we can assume ppl will have access to a device with either (a laptop), so that makes them cheaper. for IR you probably need to consider the transmitter. also, while we can use existing stuff to cut down costs when prototyping, i'd want to find a solution that is cheap for ppl that don't have all the bits. eg, i'm not suggesting the blackwidow, even though i have  a spare one, because it's $90.

pix

This looks like it'd be a good bet?

http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/575435597-5pcs-Lot-For-Arduino-NRF24L01-Wireless-Transceiver-Module-ARM-Free-Shipping-Wholesale-wholesalers.html


Most of us would have phones and / or laptops with wireless and with 125 software selectable channels  we wouldn't have to worry about mixups like IR, I'm not sure about bluetooth, but isn't it more limited in number of bands and distance?  Not to mention my Linux lappy doesn't have it but my phone and beast do so happy to go with the crowd again if it's better (ie hogs a lot less pins),

Tamsyn

[Tamsyn Michael]

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:18392


Naw!  So cute - and arduino based - pretty light on details though, but those tracks look like they're work even better with rubber bands.

[Jamie Mackenzie]

What about Xbee for remote control.  I know they are not cheap (one unit it about $25+ and you need two), but they can be easy for a beginner to understand and they can be used for other things.  You could do multiple things with them since they are modular too.  Control the robot from your computer, make a little remote control unit, control 2 bots from one unit, etc. 

On 19 June 2012 21:59, Tamsyn Michael <tamsyn.j...@gmail.com> wrote:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:18392


Naw!  So cute - and arduino based - pretty light on details though, but those tracks look like they're work even better with rubber bands.

[Steven Pickles]

cute, but doesn't actually use an arduino on the robot, it uses a skymega from the miniskybot. why!?

pix

On 19 June 2012 21:59, Tamsyn Michael <tamsyn.j...@gmail.com> wrote:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:18392


Naw!  So cute - and arduino based - pretty light on details though, but those tracks look like they're work even better with rubber bands.

[Ken]

I bought a book on XBee with a view to using it.  Haven't so far.  (The book is a good read, but fairly simple.)
In a couple of weeks I move into a new house which I expect to be in until they cart me out in a box.
I'll be looking seriously at home automation. XBee is a serious contender for the technology I'll be using.
I have a fair bit of X10 gear, but it has various problems.  I'll probably put some to use.

So +1 for XBee control.  (Costs are around $20 per module in Oz.)

That said, I have some Bluetooth modules, which I also haven't used in anger yet.  They are cheaper than XBee by far.
A big advantage of using a Bluetooth module on the robot, is that it can then be controlled from a computer, Android/iPhone, tablet etc, with existing Bluetooth functionality.
However that supposes you have, or can write, the controlling software.  I haven't yet got into Android programming, but one day...

Infrared remotes are ubiquitous (and cheap).
The infrared receiver modules are cheap.
Lowest cost of all, would be an infrared receiver on the robot. controlled from a hand-held remote.  No programming needed for the control end.
But if you wanted to control from a computer, you could.  -Sadly, no infrared on phones these days, though you could add a dongle.

Disadvantage of infrared... one way.  No communication from the robot to the computer.

Comes down to what is important to you.

My two bobs worth.
Ken.

[Tim Aslat]

In the immortal words of Jamie Mackenzie on 06/20/12 09:01:

> What about Xbee for remote control. I know they are not cheap (one unit
> it about $25+ and you need two), but they can be easy for a beginner to
> understand and they can be used for other things. You could do multiple
> things with them since they are modular too. Control the robot from
> your computer, make a little remote control unit, control 2 bots from
> one unit, etc.

The other option is the WiFly (
http://www.rovingnetworks.com/products/RN_XV ) from Roving networks.
It's the same as the XBee in form factor but handles 802.11b/g wireless
making it simpler to deal with meaning you only need 1 module and any
other wireless device can handle it.

Cheers

Tim



--
Tim Aslat <t...@spyderweb.com.au>
Spyderweb Consulting
http://www.spyderweb.com.au
Mobile: +61 0401088479

[Ken]

And it might be heresy, but...
For real beginners, a Picaxe micro will be easier to program than an Arduino, and cheaper in cost.
The Picaxes are programmed in BASIC using free software, and have single commands for doing things like reading in infrared data, stepping steppers, reading temperatures etc.
But they are a different paradigm. Instead of modules and shields, think bare ICs.  Soldering is required.

Ken.

[Tamsyn Michael]

On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 9:11 AM, Steven Pickles <thatp...@gmail.com> wrote:

cute, but doesn't actually use an arduino on the robot, it uses a skymega from the miniskybot. why!?

pix

The skymega is arduino compatible, and the code was written using the arduino IDE, I think the University of Madrid just uses it because it's smaller and simpler.  That's how it seems to me anyway.

On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Tim Aslat <t...@spyderweb.com.au> wrote:

In the immortal words of Jamie Mackenzie  on 06/20/12 09:01:

The other option is the WiFly ( http://www.rovingnetworks.com/products/RN_XV ) from Roving networks. It's the same as the XBee in form factor but handles 802.11b/g wireless making it simpler to deal with meaning you only need 1 module and any other wireless device can handle it.

Cheers

Tim

Does that mean the other 'wifi' modules don't play well with computer wifi (even though they're in the same range)?  :(  Oh.  I will look into that further.

On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 9:42 AM, Ken <k...@waggies.net> wrote:

And it might be heresy, but...
For real beginners, a Picaxe micro will be easier to program than an Arduino, and cheaper in cost.
The Picaxes are programmed in BASIC using free software, and have single commands for doing things like reading in infrared data, stepping steppers, reading temperatures etc.
But they are a different paradigm. Instead of modules and shields, think bare ICs.  Soldering is required.

Ken.

Yes, blasphemy!  I don't know about others, but I really want an intro to arduino.  Not to mention that arduino is much more modular in the way you add sensors, etc, and picax is limited in how many motors / servos and / or sensors one can have.  Plus arduino has a huuuuuuuuuuge library and active community development.



Firstly, the android programming has been done already.  Cellbots in particular, which can be used as a remote over bluetooth:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.cellbots&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsImNvbS5jZWxsYm90cyJd
The source code is also available:
http://code.google.com/p/cellbots/
Not sure if it can be altered to work over wifi or not....?

The reason I object to IR is that if a few people make them they will want to have them interact with each other, and due to the lack of frequencies the robots will all respond when someone presses a button (yeah?).
 

[Ken]

Ah, so now we are fleshing out the requirements...
+ Arduino-based as an intro to Arduinos;
+ able to co-exist independently with other robots being controlled at the same time in the same area.

Years ago (when I used OS9 on a Tandy Color Computer), I made a 'robot' which didn't do much other than move around.  It was tethered to the computer for control, but carried batteries.
Today it would use some form of RF for control.
Anyway, I don't know if anyone snaffled any from my dump of bits at hackerspace, but the wheels were a 2 lots of stepper and geared pin-wheel from the paper-tape feed of Sagem telexes.
Apart from a slide as third 'wheel', that was the total support and transport mechanism.
So if you don't want legs, robot mobility is very easy.
But if the aim is to mainly play with Arduinos and programming, buying a ready-made 'toy' robot is the easiest (and probably cheapest) route.

Depends on where you want to get your fun from: building; assembling; programming; or all of the above.
Of course if it is a team effort, then different team members can apply themselves to their area of expertise, or at least lend a hand.  Then the sky is the limit.

I think the coolest robots are ones that stand upright and walk.  :)  -Even if the feet actually contain wheels.
Then there are Daleks.  How about one of those?  (Complete with exterminator please.)
-We already have a K9 in the group. 

Ken.

[Tamsyn Michael]

Depends if the Dalek has to be able to do stairs.  ;)

Should be easy enough.

[Ken]

Nup, Dalek doesn't have to be able to do stairs.
Ability to levitate would be good though. :)

On 20 June 2012 13:58, Tamsyn Michael <tamsyn.j...@gmail.com> wrote:

Depends if the Dalek has to be able to do stairs.  ;)

Should be easy enough.

[Thomas Sprinkmeier]

On 20 June 2012 14:02, Ken <k...@waggies.net> wrote:
> Nup, Dalek doesn't have to be able to do stairs.
> Ability to levitate would be good though. :)

A REAL Dalek would just level the building...


Thomas

[Damien P]

On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 9:11:39 PM UTC+9:30, Damien P wrote:

Bluetooth might be an option; DealExtreme sells a module for about $8.50.  I've got one and been meaning to get it working.  I think it appears as a serial port to the computer.

I tried this out this evening, and had no troubles getting it working in Windows.  No luck in Linux though (the "sdptool" command shows no output).

[Jorn]

HI Tamsyn,

I've got a few of these NRF boards in stock :)

Jorn

Gawler Electronics etc...

[Damien P]

On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 8:41:02 PM UTC+9:30, pix wrote:

So, wondering out-loud, what's the cheapest option for making an arduino remote controllable?

You could skip the Arduino, and radio control it:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__8338__Hobby_King_2_4Ghz_4Ch_Tx_Rx_V2_Mode_2_.html

(By the way, I have no idea how RC stuff works, so I don't know if this unit would be suitable.  I guess they'd work with continuous rotation servos.)

Does anyone know how these communicate? Do they use the Nordic chips, or some other proprietary system?

[Tamsyn Michael]

Arduino have Tx/Rx pins that can be used with something along these lines (different receiver - but it's quite cheap).

[Damien P]

There's this guy too:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Pingbot-Micro-RC-Rechargable-Musical-Robot-Pal/

Building one this small could be challenging, but you could make a larger version.  It doesn't use servos - just plain DC motors.  You could add tyres to stop it scratching everything.

On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 12:49:13 AM UTC, hardhack wrote:

I have two boxes of small robot parts and real robots magazine I bought at a garage sale for $10, For anyone who wants them Free!  otherwise it most likely going into the recycle bin

 There's more information about these here:

http://www.mstracey.btinternet.co.uk/

[Tamsyn Michael]

Heh - I've looked at him a few times.  He's gorgeous!  Is there a picaxe programming board around the place?  >.>

[Tamsyn Michael]

Thanks though Damien.  I needed another look.  The charging circuit is especially interesting :)

[Peter Wintulich]

Good morning,
The PicAxe processors use a standard com port for programing. I used a
lose cable straight from the computer to the resistor network that
converts the voltages down to 3V.
I ha d got a couple of the PicAxe starter kits from Aztronics in the
city. They have some of the processors in stock.

I have some of the Nokia cables used for the microbric robots. (The ones
I have the Nokia plug is defective but the USB-serial chip part is fine)
You would need to add signal inverters to use these with the picaxe
processor.

Peter

On 24/06/12 16:57, Tamsyn Michael wrote:
>
> Heh - I've looked at him a few times. He's gorgeous! Is there a
> picaxe programming board around the place? >.>

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[Ken]

I use old serial mouse cables for programming Picaxes.
They will work when plugged into a USB/serial convertor provided the convertor chip is the right family.
Though they will run happily at 3v, Picaxe chips need 4.5v to 5v power when being programmed. 

Ken.

On 25 June 2012 09:17, Peter Wintulich <pe...@voicetronix.com.au> wrote:

Good morning,
The PicAxe processors use a standard com port for programing. I used a lose cable straight from the computer to the resistor network that converts the voltages down to 3V.
I ha d got a couple of the PicAxe starter kits from Aztronics in the city. They have some of the processors in stock.

I have some of the Nokia cables used for the microbric robots. (The ones I have the Nokia plug is defective but the USB-serial chip part is fine)
You would need to add signal inverters to use these with the picaxe processor.

Peter


On 24/06/12 16:57, Tamsyn Michael wrote:

Heh - I've looked at him a few times.  He's gorgeous!  Is there a picaxe programming board around the place? >.>
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[sighmon]

Or if you'd like to control your bot with a banana..

http://www.makeymakey.com

:-)

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[Tamsyn Michael]

Just found this:
http://letsmakerobots.com/node/32982

An interesting little bot.  I like it.

[Ken]

I'm considering this as MY robot base:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__12671__US_M41A3_Walker_BullDog_Light_RC_Tank_RTR_w_Airsoft_Tx.html

Ken.

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[Tamsyn Michael]

On 09/07/2012 10:15 AM, "Ken" <k...@waggies.net> wrote:
>
> I'm considering this as MY robot base:
> http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__12671__US_M41A3_Walker_BullDog_Light_RC_Tank_RTR_w_Airsoft_Tx.html
>
> Ken.

Oh dear.  *hides*

[Ken]

:)

I've ordered one!
If it makes it through customs, I'll just have to bring it to a meeting (I think it will fit in my motorbike topbox).
But I promise not to shoot anyone, or anyone's robot.

OK, despite the grey/white hair, sometimes I'm just a kid at heart.  (I have model gliders and small helis too, crap at flying them all.)
But let's be honest here, why do you folk want to make a robot that won't actually be able to do anything useful???

Ken.

--

[Ken]

Oh, and be grateful for the freight prices from China on all the electronic goodies.
The freight on this coming from the US, is as much as the item itself.

[Steven Pickles]

On 9 July 2012 11:28, Ken <k...@waggies.net> wrote:

OK, despite the grey/white hair, sometimes I'm just a kid at heart.  (I have model gliders and small helis too, crap at flying them all.)

we all are.

 

But let's be honest here, why do you folk want to make a robot that won't actually be able to do anything useful???

was the first thing you made particularly useful? were you proud of yourself regardless?

while you are remembering how to be a kid, try and remember how to be a beginner :)

pix 

[Tim Aslat]

In the immortal words of Steven Pickles on 07/09/12 11:37:

> while you are remembering how to be a kid, try and remember how to be a
> beginner :)

I don't have to remember how to be a beginner, I am one.

[Ken]

I wasn't having a go at anyone pix, I was pointing out that all the folk on this list seem to be kids at heart.
-Why else would you make a robot that is pretty useless.
My tank won't be useful, no matter how much I change its electronics to make it 'better'.
-Oh, and I already have a useless 'robot' of sorts, that Advertiser coupons one.

Ken.

--

[Tamsyn Michael]

I don't know about useless.  It'll be able to dance and sing and amuse me for endless hours.  :p

Though one with an airsoft gun has it's attractions too.  :)

[Tamsyn Michael]

http://letsmakerobots.com/

I found this a couple of days ago.  It's awesome!  Lots of info on beginner's bots, and they have a 'start here' bot (there's also an arduino one on the site).

For Damien there are quite a few whiteboard / drawing / etc type robots.  This one looks relatively simple:
http://letsmakerobots.com/node/31731

[Damien P]

On Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:04:36 PM UTC+9:30, Tanga wrote:

For Damien there are quite a few whiteboard / drawing / etc type robots.  This one looks relatively simple:
http://letsmakerobots.com/node/31731

Thanks for the link - some of the stuff there looks useful.  It doesn't go into any detail on how their pen holder works, which is unfortunate.

This project uses steppers, whereas I plan to use DC motors (because that's what I have).  I'm surprised the Adafruit shield can handle the NEMA17 steppers - I thought they needed about 2A.  (I'm not sure which shield to get - that one, or one based on the L298D which can handle more current, but only has 2 H-bridges on it and rules out steppers.)  The firmware takes G-code and can draw curves, which will be useful.  I'll need larger spools on my motors, but that's fairly easy to accommodate in the maths.  He mentions that the calculations get tricky if the strings don't meet at a single point, but I thought you'd simply subtract that distance from the spool separation distance.

I'll have to look at the computer side code - it looks like it deals with bitmaps instead of vector images.  I was going to require special SVG images to keep things simple, but I might have found a way to handle any SVG (of course, results may vary!).

On something related: does anyone have a large whiteboard I can borrow if I get this going? Maybe I should procure one to leave at Format?  They might be too big to transport... maybe I should settle for a smaller one.

[Steven Pickles]

You might want to look at the Fab modules I'm using for the Modela. They convert a few file formats to an intermediate path file format which they then convert to the right format format for various machines.

http://kokompe.cba.mit.edu/

Also for the whiteboard I remember there being a kind of film you could buy on a roll to turn any wall into a whiteboard.

pix

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