HOME/ETC Group Targets IPCC

[Josh Horton]

Here is the latest salvo from the HOME campaign, this time targeting
the IPCC expert group on geoengineering meeting in Peru:

http://www.handsoffmotherearth.org/2011/06/lettertoipcc/

Josh Horton
joshuah...@gmail.com
http://geoengineeringpolitics.blogspot.com/

[Rau, Greg]

From the letter:
"The likelihood that geoengineering will provide a safe, lasting, democratic and peaceful solution to the climate crisis is non-existent."
[please fill us in on the safer, longer lasting, more democratic, and peaceful solutions, and therefore why further evaluation of GE isn't needed.]

"Asking a group of geoengineering scientists if more research should be done on the topic is like asking a group of hungry bears if they would like honey. Their predictable answer should be viewed with skepticism. At the same time, independent organizations, which have devoted years of critical research to geoengineering, are not allowed to participate, even as observers."
[ glad someone has been able to do years of critical research on GE. Please transparently provide results, as well as evaluations of the better, non-GE solutions]

"...we urge the IPCC to ensure that a variety of civil society voices is heard, understood, and taken into account, particularly from the global South. This will provide much-needed common sense and a global perspective, as well as a counterpoint to the more prominent and extreme positions of some Northern scientists engaged in geoengineering research."
[didn't realize that there is a north/south divide here. I thought global warming and ocean acidification were equal opportunity impactors. Any Southerners on the GE list? care to weigh in?]

Interesting signatories* of this letter, including the African Biodiversity Network, Africa, international World Rainforest Movement, Cook Islands Climate Action Network (CICAN), Rarotonga, Cook Islands, Island Sustainability Alliance CIS Inc (ISACI) Rarotonga, COOK ISLANDS, Rainforest Rescue – Rettet den Regenwald, Germany, Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Congregational Leadership, United States. Certainly we are all for biodiveristy, rainforests, Pacific islands, charity, etc. Why run the risk of losing them by not considering all of our options for preserving them?

I've learned that effective political messaging requires 3 things: a victim, a villain, and an opportunity. While HOME et al. certainly have the first two covered, they offer no alternative opportunities for saving the world. That's truly dangerous. Let's keep all of our options open.
-Greg
*
African Biodiversity Network, Africa, international

ATALC – Amigos de la Tierra America Latina y Caribe, Latin America, international

Coordinadora Andina de Organizaciones Indígenas -CAOI, Andean, international

ETC group, international

Friends of the Earth International

Global Forest Coalition, International

Global Justice Ecology Project, International

GRAIN, International

Land is Life, international network of indigenous communities and organizations

Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate, International

International Center for Technology Assessment (ICTA), US / international

OILWATCH Sudamérica, international

Pan African Climate Justice Alliance (PACJA), Africa, International

RALLT, Red por una América Latina libre de Transgénicos, Latin America, international

Red Latinoamericana contra los Monocultivos de Árboles (RECOMA), Latin America, international

Redmanglar Internacional, Guatemala, international

Temple of Understanding US / international

Third World Network, international

Via Campesina, International Peasant Movement, international

World Future Council Foundation, international

World Rainforest Movement / Mov. Mundial de Bosques, international

Aboriginal Legal Rights Movement Inc, Australia

Acción Ecológica, Ecuador

Acción por la Biodiversidad, Argentina

ADEID, Action pour un Développement Équitable, Intégré et Durable, Cameroon

African Centre for Biosafety, South Africa

Alliance Sud, Switzerland

Amigos da Terra, Brazil

Amigu di Tera FoE Curaçao, Brazil

APUNA, Andhra Pradesh United Nations Association, India

Asociación ANDES, Cusco, Perú

Bio WILD Foundation, Biodiversity and Wildlife Integration for Livelihood Development, INDIA

Biofuelwatch, UK / US

Casifop, México

Ceccam, México

Cenami, México

Censat Agua Viva, Colombia

Center for Cultural Interchange and Greenheart, USA

Centre for Civil Society Environmental Justice Project, Durban, South Africa

Centro Ecológico IPÉ, Brazil

Centro Ecologista Renacer, Argentina

Centro Fray Julián Garcés de Derechos Humanos y Desarrollo Comunitario, México

CESTA, Amigos de la Tierra El Salvador

COECOCEIBA-AT Costa Rica

Colectivo COA, México

Colectivo Voces Ecológicas COVEC, Panamá

Consejo de Ejidos y Comunidades Opositores a la Presa La Parota (CECOP), México

Cook Islands Climate Action Network (CICAN), Rarotonga, Cook Islands

Cooperativa por un Ambiente Biodiverso y Sustentable, CAMBIOS, S.C. de R.L.,México

Corner House, UK

Cuarto Menguante Aliento por la conservación A.C., México

Dewan Adat Papua, New Guinea

Dogwood Alliance – Asheville, NC, USA

Ecological Society of the Philippines

Ecologistas en Acción, Spain

Ecomunidades, red ecologista autónoma de la cuenca de México

Educación AT Argentina

CEIBA AT, Guatemala

Ethiopian Society or Consumer Protection, Ethiopia

Fair Coop (Fair Trade), Italy

Family Farm Defenders, Madison, Wi, USA

FASE, Brazil

Fondation Sciences Citoyennes, France

Frente de Pueblos en Defensa de la Tierra y el Agua, Región Malinche, México

Friends of the Earth U.S.

Food First, US

Fundación Heifer-Ecuador

Fundación por el Futuro, Madrid, España

Fundación Promotora de Cooperativas – FUNPROCOOP, El Salvador

Gaia Foundation, UK

GMWatch, UK

Greenovation Center, China

Grupo SEMILLAS,Colombia

Grupo Thunhupha, Bolivia

IBON International, Philippines

Indian biodiversity forum, India

Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy, USA

Institute of Science in Society, Mae-Wan Ho, UK

Instituto de Estudios Ecologistas del Tercer Mundo, Ecuador.

International Presentation Association of the Sisters of the Presentation, USA

Institute for Social Ecology, USA

ITC, Comité Intertribal, Brazil

Island Sustainability Alliance CIS Inc (ISACI) Rarotonga, COOK ISLANDS

Movimiento Madre Tierra, Honduras

Ka Lahui Hawai’i

Kiee Lu’u S.S.S. México

L’Union Paysanne, Canada

La Asamblea Veracruzana de Iniciativa y Defensa Ambiental (LAVIDA), México

Mangrove Action Project, USA

Movimiento de la Juventud Kuna, Panamá

Movimiento por la Vida y la Equidad Campesina, El Salvador

Na Koa Ikaika KaLahui Hawaii

National Indigenous Peoples of Solomons Islands (NIPS), Solomon Islands

National Toxics Network Inc. Coordinator, Australia

New World Society For Friendship Cooperation And Peace, India

Ngati Hine tribe of the Bay Of Islands, New Zealand

NusaAlifuru of Maluku (Pacific, considered Indonesian)

Observatorio Latinoamericano de Conflictos Ambientales -OLCA, Chile

OFRANEH, Organizacion Fraternal Negra Hondureña, Honduras

Ole Siosiomaga Society Incorporated (OLSSI), SAMOA

Organización de Agricultores Biológicos A. C., México

Philippinenbuero e.V. im Asienhaus; Germany

Proceso de Comunidades Negras de Colombia

Rainforest Rescue – Rettet den Regenwald, Germany

RAPA NUI PARLIAMENT (Polinesia)

Red de Coordinación en Biodiversidad, Costa Rica

Rede Brazileira de Pesquisas em Nanotecnologia – RENANOSOMA, Brazil

REDES AT, Uruguay

SAFEAGE, Observatory, Cape Town, South Africa

Salva la Selva, Spain

Savia, Escuela de Pensamiento Ecologista, Guatemala

SEARICE, Philippines

Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Congregational Leadership, United States

Sunray Harvesters, India

SWISSAID, Switzerland

Seeds Action Network, Germany

Terra de Direitos, Human Rights Organization- Brazil

Terra-1530, Moldova

Texas Drought Project, USA

The Development Fund, Norway

The Enviro Show, Western Massachusetts/USA

The Koani Foundation, Lihue, Kauai, Hawaii

The Noordhoek Environmental Action Group, Noordhoek, Cape Town, South Africa

Un Salto de Vida, AC, El Salto, Jalisco, México

US Federation for Middle East Peace (USFMEP), USA
________________________________________
From: geoengi...@googlegroups.com [geoengi...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Josh Horton [joshuah...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 5:08 AM
To: geoengineering
Subject: [geo] HOME/ETC Group Targets IPCC

http://www.handsoffmotherearth.org/2011/06/lettertoipcc/

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[Ken Caldeira]

sorry for the double posting, but I sent this out yesterday under a thread related to Australian terrorism. This thread is more appropriate. 

That ETC (a hotbed of Northerners and I use that term pejoratively for the first time) is an odd duck in taking up this fight. 

Most people who are interested in "geoengineering" that I know are interested in it because they think effects of greenhouse gas emissions might be very bad. 

Most people who are interested in "geoengineering" that I know strongly favor deep and rapid cuts in greenhouse gas emissions.

Most people who are interested in "geoengineering" that I know fear that these cuts may not be deep enough or might not come soon enough to adequately reduce the risk of some really bad outcomes.

ETC seems to live in a fantasy world in which people who think effects of greenhouse gas emissions might be very bad do not think it is important to cut these emissions deeply and soon.

ETC seems to live in a fantasy world in which in makes sense to attack people who support deep and rapid emissions reductions simply because they might want to consider technical means to preserve important parts of the biosphere (e.g., Arctic ecosystems) should those emissions cuts not be deep enough or come soon enough.

ETC seems to live in a fantasy world in which exposing ourselves to risk is better than examining approaches that might reduce risk.

ETC seems to live in a fantasy world in which "geoengineering" is considered a substitute for emissions reductions.

ETC seems to live in a fantasy world in which ignorance is better than knowledge.

There may be a small number of people that hold the simplistic cartoon views that ETC ascribes to those interested in "geoengineering", but these people are few and far between.

If ETC would ever step off of their self-proclaimed moral high ground for a few minutes, they might find that they actually share perspectives with many people interested in "geoengineering".  However, it appears that they would rather spend their time attacking people who care deeply about the climate problem than to address people who do not care deeply about this problem.

As far as I can tell, ETC's positions are basically the following:

1. Geoengineering research will take incentive away from reducing emissions.

2. We are so confident that our emission reduction strategy will succeed that we do not deem it prudent to make back-up plans.

3. We know in advance that these back-up plans cannot diminish harm.

The first point is empirical, and I believe it to be false. Acceptance that geoengineering may be necessary is to admit the potential for catastrophic consequences from greenhouse gas emissions, which would imply a strong incentive to reduce emissions.

The second point indicates self-delusional self-confidence and a hubristic willingness to expose ecosystems and people to excessive risk.

The third seeks to replace science with a form of omniscience. Not a reliable guide for sound policy.

___________________________________________________
Ken Caldeira

Carnegie Institution Dept of Global Ecology
260 Panama Street, Stanford, CA 94305 USA
+1 650 704 7212 kcal...@carnegie.stanford.edu
http://dge.stanford.edu/labs/caldeiralab  @kencaldeira

[vogle...@gmail.com]

Interesting list of groups. I will bet $100 that if each group were to be contacted, that we would find they have no knowledge of this ETC effort. I just randomly picked one... "Institute for Social Ecology" and searched their website for "Geoengineering". This is what I found....http://www.social-ecology.org/?s=geoengineering&submit.x=10&submit.y=9 No Result

So, I tried another...."Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy. USA" and again searched their site for GE. Here is what I found http://www.social-ecology.org/?s=geoengineering&submit.x=10&submit.y=9 No Result

Being and hard headed SOUTHERN fellow, I tried one more....."International Presentation Association of the Sisters of the Presentation, USA" Here is the search result http://www.presentationsisters.org/search-results.php AGAIN NO RESULT!!!

Ok, I am upping the bet to $1,000. Any takers?

[Andrew Lockley]

You'll have to question them directly

I suggest that we circulate a response to each - likely the same as sent to the ipcc

A

>> Cooperativa por un Ambiente Biodiverso y Sustentable, CAMBIOS, SC de
>> RL,México
>
>
>
>> Corner House, UK
>
>
>
>> Cuarto Menguante Aliento por la conservación AC, México

>
>
>
>> Dewan Adat Papua, New Guinea
>
>
>
>> Dogwood Alliance – Asheville, NC, USA
>
>
>
>> Ecological Society of the Philippines
>
>
>
>> Ecologistas en Acción, Spain
>
>
>
>> Ecomunidades, red ecologista autónoma de la cuenca de México
>
>
>
>> Educación AT Argentina
>
>
>
>> CEIBA AT, Guatemala
>
>
>
>> Ethiopian Society or Consumer Protection, Ethiopia
>
>
>
>> Fair Coop (Fair Trade), Italy
>
>
>
>> Family Farm Defenders, Madison, Wi, USA
>
>
>
>> FASE, Brazil
>
>
>
>> Fondation Sciences Citoyennes, France
>
>
>
>> Frente de Pueblos en Defensa de la Tierra y el Agua, Región Malinche,
>> México
>
>
>

>> Friends of the Earth US

>
>
>
>> Food First, US
>
>
>
>> Fundación Heifer-Ecuador
>
>
>
>> Fundación por el Futuro, Madrid, España
>
>
>
>> Fundación Promotora de Cooperativas – FUNPROCOOP, El Salvador
>
>
>
>> Gaia Foundation, UK
>
>
>
>> GMWatch, UK
>
>
>
>> Greenovation Center, China
>
>
>
>> Grupo SEMILLAS,Colombia
>
>
>
>> Grupo Thunhupha, Bolivia
>
>
>
>> IBON International, Philippines
>
>
>
>> Indian biodiversity forum, India
>
>
>
>> Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy, USA
>
>
>
>> Institute of Science in Society, Mae-Wan Ho, UK
>
>
>
>> Instituto de Estudios Ecologistas del Tercer Mundo, Ecuador.
>
>
>
>> International Presentation Association of the Sisters of the
>> Presentation, USA
>
>
>
>> Institute for Social Ecology, USA
>
>
>
>> ITC, Comité Intertribal, Brazil
>
>
>
>> Island Sustainability Alliance CIS Inc (ISACI) Rarotonga, COOK ISLANDS
>
>
>
>> Movimiento Madre Tierra, Honduras
>
>
>
>> Ka Lahui Hawai'i
>
>
>

>> Kiee Lu'u SSS México

>
>
>
>> L'Union Paysanne, Canada
>
>
>
>> La Asamblea Veracruzana de Iniciativa y Defensa Ambiental (LAVIDA), México
>
>
>
>> Mangrove Action Project, USA
>
>
>
>> Movimiento de la Juventud Kuna, Panamá
>
>
>
>> Movimiento por la Vida y la Equidad Campesina, El Salvador
>
>
>
>> Na Koa Ikaika KaLahui Hawaii
>
>
>
>> National Indigenous Peoples of Solomons Islands (NIPS), Solomon Islands
>
>
>
>> National Toxics Network Inc. Coordinator, Australia
>
>
>
>> New World Society For Friendship Cooperation And Peace, India
>
>
>
>> Ngati Hine tribe of the Bay Of Islands, New Zealand
>
>
>
>> NusaAlifuru of Maluku (Pacific, considered Indonesian)
>
>
>
>> Observatorio Latinoamericano de Conflictos Ambientales -OLCA, Chile
>
>
>
>> OFRANEH, Organizacion Fraternal Negra Hondureña, Honduras
>
>
>
>> Ole Siosiomaga Society Incorporated (OLSSI), SAMOA
>
>
>

>> Organización de Agricultores Biológicos AC, México
>
>
>
>> Philippinenbuero eV im Asienhaus; Germany

[John Gorman]

Exactly what I thought as i read through the list of supporting organisations. FoE is listed while I described the FoE 2009 Position Paper on geoengineering as  "particularly concise and interesting"  in my letter to our Climate Change minister.   www.naturaljointmobility.info/letters.htm

 

john gorman

 

 

 ----- Original Message -----

[Stephen Salter]

Hi All

Pat Mooney of the ETC group repeats much of the IPCC letter in today's Guardian see

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jun/15/geo-engineering-climate-consideration

Can we get the Guardian to print Ken's list of points?

Stephen

Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
Institute for Energy Systems
School of Engineering
Mayfield Road
University of Edinburgh EH9  3JL
Scotland
Tel +44 131 650 5704
Mobile 07795 203 195
www.see.ed.ac.uk/~shs

>> Rainforest Rescue � Rettet den Regenwald, Germany, Sisters of Charity of

>> Nazareth Congregational Leadership, United States. Certainly we are all
>> for biodiveristy, rainforests, Pacific islands, charity, etc. Why run the
>> risk of losing them by not considering all of our options for preserving
>> them?
>
>
>
>> I've learned that effective political messaging requires 3 things: a
>> victim, a villain, and an opportunity. While HOME et al. certainly have
>> the first two covered, they offer no alternative opportunities for saving
>> the world. That's truly dangerous. Let's keep all of our options open.
>
>> -Greg
>
>> *
>
>> African Biodiversity Network, Africa, international
>
>
>

>> ATALC � Amigos de la Tierra America Latina y Caribe, Latin America,
>> international
>
>
>
>> Coordinadora Andina de Organizaciones Ind�genas -CAOI, Andean,

>> international
>
>
>
>> ETC group, international
>
>
>
>> Friends of the Earth International
>
>
>
>> Global Forest Coalition, International
>
>
>
>> Global Justice Ecology Project, International
>
>
>
>> GRAIN, International
>
>
>
>> Land is Life, international network of indigenous communities and
>> organizations
>
>
>
>> Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate, International
>
>
>
>> International Center for Technology Assessment (ICTA), US / international
>
>
>

>> OILWATCH Sudam�rica, international

>
>
>
>> Pan African Climate Justice Alliance (PACJA), Africa, International
>
>
>

>> RALLT, Red por una Am�rica Latina libre de Transg�nicos, Latin America,
>> international
>
>
>
>> Red Latinoamericana contra los Monocultivos de �rboles (RECOMA), Latin

>> America, international
>
>
>
>> Redmanglar Internacional, Guatemala, international
>
>
>
>> Temple of Understanding US / international
>
>
>
>> Third World Network, international
>
>
>
>> Via Campesina, International Peasant Movement, international
>
>
>
>> World Future Council Foundation, international
>
>
>
>> World Rainforest Movement / Mov. Mundial de Bosques, international
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> Aboriginal Legal Rights Movement Inc, Australia
>
>
>

>> Acci�n Ecol�gica, Ecuador
>
>
>
>> Acci�n por la Biodiversidad, Argentina
>
>
>
>> ADEID, Action pour un D�veloppement �quitable, Int�gr� et Durable,

>> Cameroon
>
>
>
>> African Centre for Biosafety, South Africa
>
>
>
>> Alliance Sud, Switzerland
>
>
>
>> Amigos da Terra, Brazil
>
>
>

>> Amigu di Tera FoE Cura�ao, Brazil

>
>
>
>> APUNA, Andhra Pradesh United Nations Association, India
>
>
>

>> Asociaci�n ANDES, Cusco, Per�

>
>
>
>> Bio WILD Foundation, Biodiversity and Wildlife Integration for Livelihood
>> Development, INDIA
>
>
>
>> Biofuelwatch, UK / US
>
>
>

>> Casifop, M�xico
>
>
>
>> Ceccam, M�xico
>
>
>
>> Cenami, M�xico

>
>
>
>> Censat Agua Viva, Colombia
>
>
>
>> Center for Cultural Interchange and Greenheart, USA
>
>
>
>> Centre for Civil Society Environmental Justice Project, Durban, South
>> Africa
>
>
>

>> Centro Ecol�gico IP�, Brazil
>
>
>
>> Centro Ecologista Renacer, Argentina
>
>
>
>> Centro Fray Juli�n Garc�s de Derechos Humanos y Desarrollo Comunitario,
>> M�xico

>
>
>
>> CESTA, Amigos de la Tierra El Salvador
>
>
>
>> COECOCEIBA-AT Costa Rica
>
>
>

>> Colectivo COA, M�xico
>
>
>
>> Colectivo Voces Ecol�gicas COVEC, Panam�

>
>
>
>> Consejo de Ejidos y Comunidades Opositores a la Presa La Parota (CECOP),

>> M�xico

>
>
>
>> Cook Islands Climate Action Network (CICAN), Rarotonga, Cook Islands
>
>
>
>> Cooperativa por un Ambiente Biodiverso y Sustentable, CAMBIOS, SC de

>> RL,M�xico
>
>
>
>> Corner House, UK
>
>
>
>> Cuarto Menguante Aliento por la conservaci�n AC, M�xico

>
>
>
>> Dewan Adat Papua, New Guinea
>
>
>

>> Dogwood Alliance � Asheville, NC, USA

>
>
>
>> Ecological Society of the Philippines
>
>
>

>> Ecologistas en Acci�n, Spain
>
>
>
>> Ecomunidades, red ecologista aut�noma de la cuenca de M�xico
>
>
>
>> Educaci�n AT Argentina

>
>
>
>> CEIBA AT, Guatemala
>
>
>
>> Ethiopian Society or Consumer Protection, Ethiopia
>
>
>
>> Fair Coop (Fair Trade), Italy
>
>
>
>> Family Farm Defenders, Madison, Wi, USA
>
>
>
>> FASE, Brazil
>
>
>
>> Fondation Sciences Citoyennes, France
>
>
>

>> Frente de Pueblos en Defensa de la Tierra y el Agua, Regi�n Malinche,
>> M�xico

>
>
>
>> Friends of the Earth US
>
>
>
>> Food First, US
>
>
>

>> Fundaci�n Heifer-Ecuador
>
>
>
>> Fundaci�n por el Futuro, Madrid, Espa�a
>
>
>
>> Fundaci�n Promotora de Cooperativas � FUNPROCOOP, El Salvador

>
>
>
>> Gaia Foundation, UK
>
>
>
>> GMWatch, UK
>
>
>
>> Greenovation Center, China
>
>
>
>> Grupo SEMILLAS,Colombia
>
>
>
>> Grupo Thunhupha, Bolivia
>
>
>
>> IBON International, Philippines
>
>
>
>> Indian biodiversity forum, India
>
>
>
>> Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy, USA
>
>
>
>> Institute of Science in Society, Mae-Wan Ho, UK
>
>
>
>> Instituto de Estudios Ecologistas del Tercer Mundo, Ecuador.
>
>
>
>> International Presentation Association of the Sisters of the
>> Presentation, USA
>
>
>
>> Institute for Social Ecology, USA
>
>
>

>> ITC, Comit� Intertribal, Brazil

>
>
>
>> Island Sustainability Alliance CIS Inc (ISACI) Rarotonga, COOK ISLANDS
>
>
>
>> Movimiento Madre Tierra, Honduras
>
>
>
>> Ka Lahui Hawai'i
>
>
>

>> Kiee Lu'u SSS M�xico
>
>
>
>> L'Union Paysanne, Canada
>
>
>
>> La Asamblea Veracruzana de Iniciativa y Defensa Ambiental (LAVIDA), M�xico
>
>
>
>> Mangrove Action Project, USA
>
>
>
>> Movimiento de la Juventud Kuna, Panam�

>
>
>
>> Movimiento por la Vida y la Equidad Campesina, El Salvador
>
>
>
>> Na Koa Ikaika KaLahui Hawaii
>
>
>
>> National Indigenous Peoples of Solomons Islands (NIPS), Solomon Islands
>
>
>
>> National Toxics Network Inc. Coordinator, Australia
>
>
>
>> New World Society For Friendship Cooperation And Peace, India
>
>
>
>> Ngati Hine tribe of the Bay Of Islands, New Zealand
>
>
>
>> NusaAlifuru of Maluku (Pacific, considered Indonesian)
>
>
>
>> Observatorio Latinoamericano de Conflictos Ambientales -OLCA, Chile
>
>
>

>> OFRANEH, Organizacion Fraternal Negra Hondure�a, Honduras

>
>
>
>> Ole Siosiomaga Society Incorporated (OLSSI), SAMOA
>
>
>

>> Organizaci�n de Agricultores Biol�gicos AC, M�xico

>
>
>
>> Philippinenbuero eV im Asienhaus; Germany
>
>
>
>> Proceso de Comunidades Negras de Colombia
>
>
>

>> Rainforest Rescue � Rettet den Regenwald, Germany
>
>
>
>> RAPA NUI PARLIAMENT (Polinesia)
>
>
>
>> Red de Coordinaci�n en Biodiversidad, Costa Rica
>
>
>
>> Rede Brazileira de Pesquisas em Nanotecnologia � RENANOSOMA, Brazil

>
>
>
>> REDES AT, Uruguay
>
>
>
>> SAFEAGE, Observatory, Cape Town, South Africa
>
>
>
>> Salva la Selva, Spain
>
>
>
>> Savia, Escuela de Pensamiento Ecologista, Guatemala
>
>
>
>> SEARICE, Philippines
>
>
>
>> Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Congregational Leadership, United States
>
>
>
>> Sunray Harvesters, India
>
>
>
>> SWISSAID, Switzerland
>
>
>
>> Seeds Action Network, Germany
>
>
>
>> Terra de Direitos, Human Rights Organization- Brazil
>
>
>
>> Terra-1530, Moldova
>
>
>
>> Texas Drought Project, USA
>
>
>
>> The Development Fund, Norway
>
>
>
>> The Enviro Show, Western Massachusetts/USA
>
>
>
>> The Koani Foundation, Lihue, Kauai, Hawaii
>
>
>
>> The Noordhoek Environmental Action Group, Noordhoek, Cape Town, South
>> Africa
>
>
>

>> Un Salto de Vida, AC, El Salto, Jalisco, M�xico

[Andrew Lockley]

Suggested wording, for amendment and endorsement.

A

We the undersigned represent a selection of the scientists, engineers
and social & policy experts involved in the development of
geoengineering and its governance. We write with frustration at the
sentiments expressed in the recent letter sent by ETC et al to the
press and IPCC. As a result, we would like to express the following
views on the IPCC's process on geoengineering, and more generally:

1) We do not propose geoengineering as a substitute for emissions
cuts, and never have done.
2) We believe that research demonstrates that emissions cuts are
necessary, but may not be sufficient to control dangerous climate
change.
3) We note that several geoengineering schemes have been proposed
which appear to be workable, but that we currently lack the research
necessary to determine the full extent of any role they may play in
the future control of global warming.
4) We fear the deployment in emergency of poorly tested geoengineering
techniques
5) We argue for the proper funding and testing of possible
geoengineering technologies, in order to better understand them
6) We note that, despite the lack of clear geoengineering solutions
available for deployment at present, efforts to curtail emissions have
thus far achieved little or nothing. As such, we believe that further
research will not in itself raise climate risks due to any perceived
panacea which the existence of the technology may wrongly appear to
offer.

Nevertheless, we note the the IPCCs consideration of this issue
represents a departure from its traditional pure science remit. We
argue therefore for greater transparency of the process, the inclusion
of experts from social policy fields in the process, and the opening
up of sessions to external observers, notably civil society groups.

Yours sincerely

>>> Rainforest Rescue – Rettet den Regenwald, Germany, Sisters of Charity of

>>> Nazareth Congregational Leadership, United States. Certainly we are all
>>> for biodiveristy, rainforests, Pacific islands, charity, etc. Why run the
>>> risk of losing them by not considering all of our options for preserving
>>> them?
>>
>>
>>
>>> I've learned that effective political messaging requires 3 things: a
>>> victim, a villain, and an opportunity. While HOME et al. certainly have
>>> the first two covered, they offer no alternative opportunities for saving
>>> the world. That's truly dangerous. Let's keep all of our options open.
>>
>>> -Greg
>>
>>> *
>>
>>> African Biodiversity Network, Africa, international
>>
>>
>>

>>> ATALC – Amigos de la Tierra America Latina y Caribe, Latin America,
>>> international
>>
>>
>>
>>> Coordinadora Andina de Organizaciones Indígenas -CAOI, Andean,

>>> international
>>
>>
>>
>>> ETC group, international
>>
>>
>>
>>> Friends of the Earth International
>>
>>
>>
>>> Global Forest Coalition, International
>>
>>
>>
>>> Global Justice Ecology Project, International
>>
>>
>>
>>> GRAIN, International
>>
>>
>>
>>> Land is Life, international network of indigenous communities and
>>> organizations
>>
>>
>>
>>> Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate, International
>>
>>
>>
>>> International Center for Technology Assessment (ICTA), US / international
>>
>>
>>

>>> OILWATCH Sudamérica, international

>>
>>
>>
>>> Pan African Climate Justice Alliance (PACJA), Africa, International
>>
>>
>>

>>> RALLT, Red por una América Latina libre de Transgénicos, Latin America,
>>> international
>>
>>
>>
>>> Red Latinoamericana contra los Monocultivos de Árboles (RECOMA), Latin

>>> America, international
>>
>>
>>
>>> Redmanglar Internacional, Guatemala, international
>>
>>
>>
>>> Temple of Understanding US / international
>>
>>
>>
>>> Third World Network, international
>>
>>
>>
>>> Via Campesina, International Peasant Movement, international
>>
>>
>>
>>> World Future Council Foundation, international
>>
>>
>>
>>> World Rainforest Movement / Mov. Mundial de Bosques, international
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Aboriginal Legal Rights Movement Inc, Australia
>>
>>
>>

>>> Acción Ecológica, Ecuador
>>
>>
>>
>>> Acción por la Biodiversidad, Argentina
>>
>>
>>
>>> ADEID, Action pour un Développement Équitable, Intégré et Durable,

>>> Cameroon
>>
>>
>>
>>> African Centre for Biosafety, South Africa
>>
>>
>>
>>> Alliance Sud, Switzerland
>>
>>
>>
>>> Amigos da Terra, Brazil
>>
>>
>>

>>> Amigu di Tera FoE Curaçao, Brazil

>>
>>
>>
>>> APUNA, Andhra Pradesh United Nations Association, India
>>
>>
>>

>>> Asociación ANDES, Cusco, Perú

>>
>>
>>
>>> Bio WILD Foundation, Biodiversity and Wildlife Integration for Livelihood
>>> Development, INDIA
>>
>>
>>
>>> Biofuelwatch, UK / US
>>
>>
>>

>>> Casifop, México
>>
>>
>>
>>> Ceccam, México
>>
>>
>>
>>> Cenami, México
>>
>>
>>

>>> Censat Agua Viva, Colombia
>>
>>
>>
>>> Center for Cultural Interchange and Greenheart, USA
>>
>>
>>
>>> Centre for Civil Society Environmental Justice Project, Durban, South
>>> Africa
>>
>>
>>

>>> Centro Ecológico IPÉ, Brazil
>>
>>
>>
>>> Centro Ecologista Renacer, Argentina
>>
>>
>>
>>> Centro Fray Julián Garcés de Derechos Humanos y Desarrollo Comunitario,
>>> México

>>
>>
>>
>>> CESTA, Amigos de la Tierra El Salvador
>>
>>
>>
>>> COECOCEIBA-AT Costa Rica
>>
>>
>>

>>> Colectivo COA, México
>>
>>
>>
>>> Colectivo Voces Ecológicas COVEC, Panamá
>>
>>
>>

>>> Consejo de Ejidos y Comunidades Opositores a la Presa La Parota (CECOP),

>>> México

>>
>>
>>
>>> Cook Islands Climate Action Network (CICAN), Rarotonga, Cook Islands
>>
>>
>>
>>> Cooperativa por un Ambiente Biodiverso y Sustentable, CAMBIOS, SC de

>>> RL,México
>>
>>
>>
>>> Corner House, UK
>>
>>
>>
>>> Cuarto Menguante Aliento por la conservación AC, México

>>
>>
>>
>>> Dewan Adat Papua, New Guinea
>>
>>
>>

>>> Dogwood Alliance – Asheville, NC, USA

>>
>>
>>
>>> Ecological Society of the Philippines
>>
>>
>>

>>> Ecologistas en Acción, Spain
>>
>>
>>
>>> Ecomunidades, red ecologista autónoma de la cuenca de México
>>
>>
>>

>>> Educación AT Argentina

>>
>>
>>
>>> CEIBA AT, Guatemala
>>
>>
>>
>>> Ethiopian Society or Consumer Protection, Ethiopia
>>
>>
>>
>>> Fair Coop (Fair Trade), Italy
>>
>>
>>
>>> Family Farm Defenders, Madison, Wi, USA
>>
>>
>>
>>> FASE, Brazil
>>
>>
>>
>>> Fondation Sciences Citoyennes, France
>>
>>
>>

>>> Frente de Pueblos en Defensa de la Tierra y el Agua, Región Malinche,
>>> México

>>
>>
>>
>>> Friends of the Earth US
>>
>>
>>
>>> Food First, US
>>
>>
>>

>>> Fundación Heifer-Ecuador
>>
>>
>>
>>> Fundación por el Futuro, Madrid, España
>>
>>
>>

>>> Fundación Promotora de Cooperativas – FUNPROCOOP, El Salvador

>>
>>
>>
>>> Gaia Foundation, UK
>>
>>
>>
>>> GMWatch, UK
>>
>>
>>
>>> Greenovation Center, China
>>
>>
>>
>>> Grupo SEMILLAS,Colombia
>>
>>
>>
>>> Grupo Thunhupha, Bolivia
>>
>>
>>
>>> IBON International, Philippines
>>
>>
>>
>>> Indian biodiversity forum, India
>>
>>
>>
>>> Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy, USA
>>
>>
>>
>>> Institute of Science in Society, Mae-Wan Ho, UK
>>
>>
>>
>>> Instituto de Estudios Ecologistas del Tercer Mundo, Ecuador.
>>
>>
>>
>>> International Presentation Association of the Sisters of the
>>> Presentation, USA
>>
>>
>>
>>> Institute for Social Ecology, USA
>>
>>
>>

>>> ITC, Comité Intertribal, Brazil

>>
>>
>>
>>> Island Sustainability Alliance CIS Inc (ISACI) Rarotonga, COOK ISLANDS
>>
>>
>>
>>> Movimiento Madre Tierra, Honduras
>>
>>
>>
>>> Ka Lahui Hawai'i
>>
>>
>>

>>> Kiee Lu'u SSS México

>>
>>
>>
>>> L'Union Paysanne, Canada
>>
>>
>>
>>> La Asamblea Veracruzana de Iniciativa y Defensa Ambiental (LAVIDA),

>>> México
>>
>>
>>
>>> Mangrove Action Project, USA
>>
>>
>>
>>> Movimiento de la Juventud Kuna, Panamá

>>
>>
>>
>>> Movimiento por la Vida y la Equidad Campesina, El Salvador
>>
>>
>>
>>> Na Koa Ikaika KaLahui Hawaii
>>
>>
>>
>>> National Indigenous Peoples of Solomons Islands (NIPS), Solomon Islands
>>
>>
>>
>>> National Toxics Network Inc. Coordinator, Australia
>>
>>
>>
>>> New World Society For Friendship Cooperation And Peace, India
>>
>>
>>
>>> Ngati Hine tribe of the Bay Of Islands, New Zealand
>>
>>
>>
>>> NusaAlifuru of Maluku (Pacific, considered Indonesian)
>>
>>
>>
>>> Observatorio Latinoamericano de Conflictos Ambientales -OLCA, Chile
>>
>>
>>

>>> OFRANEH, Organizacion Fraternal Negra Hondureña, Honduras

>>
>>
>>
>>> Ole Siosiomaga Society Incorporated (OLSSI), SAMOA
>>
>>
>>

>>> Organización de Agricultores Biológicos AC, México
>>
>>
>>

>>> Philippinenbuero eV im Asienhaus; Germany
>>
>>
>>
>>> Proceso de Comunidades Negras de Colombia
>>
>>
>>

>>> Rainforest Rescue – Rettet den Regenwald, Germany
>>
>>
>>
>>> RAPA NUI PARLIAMENT (Polinesia)
>>
>>
>>
>>> Red de Coordinación en Biodiversidad, Costa Rica
>>
>>
>>
>>> Rede Brazileira de Pesquisas em Nanotecnologia – RENANOSOMA, Brazil

>>
>>
>>
>>> REDES AT, Uruguay
>>
>>
>>
>>> SAFEAGE, Observatory, Cape Town, South Africa
>>
>>
>>
>>> Salva la Selva, Spain
>>
>>
>>
>>> Savia, Escuela de Pensamiento Ecologista, Guatemala
>>
>>
>>
>>> SEARICE, Philippines
>>
>>
>>
>>> Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Congregational Leadership, United States
>>
>>
>>
>>> Sunray Harvesters, India
>>
>>
>>
>>> SWISSAID, Switzerland
>>
>>
>>
>>> Seeds Action Network, Germany
>>
>>
>>
>>> Terra de Direitos, Human Rights Organization- Brazil
>>
>>
>>
>>> Terra-1530, Moldova
>>
>>
>>
>>> Texas Drought Project, USA
>>
>>
>>
>>> The Development Fund, Norway
>>
>>
>>
>>> The Enviro Show, Western Massachusetts/USA
>>
>>
>>
>>> The Koani Foundation, Lihue, Kauai, Hawaii
>>
>>
>>
>>> The Noordhoek Environmental Action Group, Noordhoek, Cape Town, South
>>> Africa
>>
>>
>>

>>> Un Salto de Vida, AC, El Salto, Jalisco, México

> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
> Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

[Stephen Salter]

Andrew

I cannot improve your draft.

Stephen

Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
Institute for Energy Systems
School of Engineering
Mayfield Road
University of Edinburgh EH9 3JL
Scotland
Tel +44 131 650 5704
Mobile 07795 203 195
www.see.ed.ac.uk/~shs

On 16/06/2011 10:25, Andrew Lockley wrote:
> Suggested wording, for amendment and endorsement.
>
> A
>
> We the undersigned represent a selection of the scientists, engineers

> and social& policy experts involved in the development of

>>>> Rainforest Rescue � Rettet den Regenwald, Germany, Sisters of Charity of

>>>> Nazareth Congregational Leadership, United States. Certainly we are all
>>>> for biodiveristy, rainforests, Pacific islands, charity, etc. Why run the
>>>> risk of losing them by not considering all of our options for preserving
>>>> them?
>>>
>>>
>>>> I've learned that effective political messaging requires 3 things: a
>>>> victim, a villain, and an opportunity. While HOME et al. certainly have
>>>> the first two covered, they offer no alternative opportunities for saving
>>>> the world. That's truly dangerous. Let's keep all of our options open.
>>>> -Greg
>>>> *
>>>> African Biodiversity Network, Africa, international
>>>
>>>

>>>> ATALC � Amigos de la Tierra America Latina y Caribe, Latin America,
>>>> international
>>>
>>>
>>>> Coordinadora Andina de Organizaciones Ind�genas -CAOI, Andean,

>>>> international
>>>
>>>
>>>> ETC group, international
>>>
>>>
>>>> Friends of the Earth International
>>>
>>>
>>>> Global Forest Coalition, International
>>>
>>>
>>>> Global Justice Ecology Project, International
>>>
>>>
>>>> GRAIN, International
>>>
>>>
>>>> Land is Life, international network of indigenous communities and
>>>> organizations
>>>
>>>
>>>> Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate, International
>>>
>>>
>>>> International Center for Technology Assessment (ICTA), US / international
>>>
>>>

>>>> OILWATCH Sudam�rica, international

>>>
>>>
>>>> Pan African Climate Justice Alliance (PACJA), Africa, International
>>>
>>>

>>>> RALLT, Red por una Am�rica Latina libre de Transg�nicos, Latin America,
>>>> international
>>>
>>>
>>>> Red Latinoamericana contra los Monocultivos de �rboles (RECOMA), Latin

>>>> America, international
>>>
>>>
>>>> Redmanglar Internacional, Guatemala, international
>>>
>>>
>>>> Temple of Understanding US / international
>>>
>>>
>>>> Third World Network, international
>>>
>>>
>>>> Via Campesina, International Peasant Movement, international
>>>
>>>
>>>> World Future Council Foundation, international
>>>
>>>
>>>> World Rainforest Movement / Mov. Mundial de Bosques, international
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Aboriginal Legal Rights Movement Inc, Australia
>>>
>>>

>>>> Acci�n Ecol�gica, Ecuador
>>>
>>>
>>>> Acci�n por la Biodiversidad, Argentina
>>>
>>>

>>>> ADEID, Action pour un D�veloppement �quitable, Int�gr� et Durable,

>>>> Cameroon
>>>
>>>
>>>> African Centre for Biosafety, South Africa
>>>
>>>
>>>> Alliance Sud, Switzerland
>>>
>>>
>>>> Amigos da Terra, Brazil
>>>
>>>

>>>> Amigu di Tera FoE Cura�ao, Brazil

>>>
>>>
>>>> APUNA, Andhra Pradesh United Nations Association, India
>>>
>>>

>>>> Asociaci�n ANDES, Cusco, Per�
>>>
>>>

>>>> Bio WILD Foundation, Biodiversity and Wildlife Integration for Livelihood
>>>> Development, INDIA
>>>
>>>
>>>> Biofuelwatch, UK / US
>>>
>>>

>>>> Casifop, M�xico
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ceccam, M�xico
>>>
>>>
>>>> Cenami, M�xico
>>>
>>>

>>>> Censat Agua Viva, Colombia
>>>
>>>
>>>> Center for Cultural Interchange and Greenheart, USA
>>>
>>>
>>>> Centre for Civil Society Environmental Justice Project, Durban, South
>>>> Africa
>>>
>>>

>>>> Centro Ecol�gico IP�, Brazil
>>>
>>>
>>>> Centro Ecologista Renacer, Argentina
>>>
>>>
>>>> Centro Fray Juli�n Garc�s de Derechos Humanos y Desarrollo Comunitario,
>>>> M�xico

>>>
>>>
>>>> CESTA, Amigos de la Tierra El Salvador
>>>
>>>
>>>> COECOCEIBA-AT Costa Rica
>>>
>>>

>>>> Colectivo COA, M�xico
>>>
>>>
>>>> Colectivo Voces Ecol�gicas COVEC, Panam�
>>>
>>>

>>>> Consejo de Ejidos y Comunidades Opositores a la Presa La Parota (CECOP),

>>>> M�xico

>>>
>>>
>>>> Cook Islands Climate Action Network (CICAN), Rarotonga, Cook Islands
>>>
>>>
>>>> Cooperativa por un Ambiente Biodiverso y Sustentable, CAMBIOS, SC de

>>>> RL,M�xico
>>>
>>>
>>>> Corner House, UK
>>>
>>>

>>>> Cuarto Menguante Aliento por la conservaci�n AC, M�xico
>>>
>>>

>>>> Dewan Adat Papua, New Guinea
>>>
>>>

>>>> Dogwood Alliance � Asheville, NC, USA

>>>
>>>
>>>> Ecological Society of the Philippines
>>>
>>>

>>>> Ecologistas en Acci�n, Spain
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ecomunidades, red ecologista aut�noma de la cuenca de M�xico
>>>
>>>

>>>> Educaci�n AT Argentina

>>>
>>>
>>>> CEIBA AT, Guatemala
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ethiopian Society or Consumer Protection, Ethiopia
>>>
>>>
>>>> Fair Coop (Fair Trade), Italy
>>>
>>>
>>>> Family Farm Defenders, Madison, Wi, USA
>>>
>>>
>>>> FASE, Brazil
>>>
>>>
>>>> Fondation Sciences Citoyennes, France
>>>
>>>

>>>> Frente de Pueblos en Defensa de la Tierra y el Agua, Regi�n Malinche,
>>>> M�xico
>>>
>>>

>>>> Friends of the Earth US
>>>
>>>
>>>> Food First, US
>>>
>>>

>>>> Fundaci�n Heifer-Ecuador
>>>
>>>
>>>> Fundaci�n por el Futuro, Madrid, Espa�a
>>>
>>>

>>>> Fundaci�n Promotora de Cooperativas � FUNPROCOOP, El Salvador

>>>
>>>
>>>> Gaia Foundation, UK
>>>
>>>
>>>> GMWatch, UK
>>>
>>>
>>>> Greenovation Center, China
>>>
>>>
>>>> Grupo SEMILLAS,Colombia
>>>
>>>
>>>> Grupo Thunhupha, Bolivia
>>>
>>>
>>>> IBON International, Philippines
>>>
>>>
>>>> Indian biodiversity forum, India
>>>
>>>
>>>> Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy, USA
>>>
>>>
>>>> Institute of Science in Society, Mae-Wan Ho, UK
>>>
>>>
>>>> Instituto de Estudios Ecologistas del Tercer Mundo, Ecuador.
>>>
>>>
>>>> International Presentation Association of the Sisters of the
>>>> Presentation, USA
>>>
>>>
>>>> Institute for Social Ecology, USA
>>>
>>>

>>>> ITC, Comit� Intertribal, Brazil

>>>
>>>
>>>> Island Sustainability Alliance CIS Inc (ISACI) Rarotonga, COOK ISLANDS
>>>
>>>
>>>> Movimiento Madre Tierra, Honduras
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ka Lahui Hawai'i
>>>
>>>

>>>> Kiee Lu'u SSS M�xico

>>>
>>>
>>>> L'Union Paysanne, Canada
>>>
>>>
>>>> La Asamblea Veracruzana de Iniciativa y Defensa Ambiental (LAVIDA),

>>>> M�xico
>>>
>>>
>>>> Mangrove Action Project, USA
>>>
>>>
>>>> Movimiento de la Juventud Kuna, Panam�

>>>
>>>
>>>> Movimiento por la Vida y la Equidad Campesina, El Salvador
>>>
>>>
>>>> Na Koa Ikaika KaLahui Hawaii
>>>
>>>
>>>> National Indigenous Peoples of Solomons Islands (NIPS), Solomon Islands
>>>
>>>
>>>> National Toxics Network Inc. Coordinator, Australia
>>>
>>>
>>>> New World Society For Friendship Cooperation And Peace, India
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ngati Hine tribe of the Bay Of Islands, New Zealand
>>>
>>>
>>>> NusaAlifuru of Maluku (Pacific, considered Indonesian)
>>>
>>>
>>>> Observatorio Latinoamericano de Conflictos Ambientales -OLCA, Chile
>>>
>>>

>>>> OFRANEH, Organizacion Fraternal Negra Hondure�a, Honduras

>>>
>>>
>>>> Ole Siosiomaga Society Incorporated (OLSSI), SAMOA
>>>
>>>

>>>> Organizaci�n de Agricultores Biol�gicos AC, M�xico
>>>
>>>

>>>> Philippinenbuero eV im Asienhaus; Germany
>>>
>>>
>>>> Proceso de Comunidades Negras de Colombia
>>>
>>>

>>>> Rainforest Rescue � Rettet den Regenwald, Germany
>>>
>>>
>>>> RAPA NUI PARLIAMENT (Polinesia)
>>>
>>>
>>>> Red de Coordinaci�n en Biodiversidad, Costa Rica
>>>
>>>
>>>> Rede Brazileira de Pesquisas em Nanotecnologia � RENANOSOMA, Brazil

>>>
>>>
>>>> REDES AT, Uruguay
>>>
>>>
>>>> SAFEAGE, Observatory, Cape Town, South Africa
>>>
>>>
>>>> Salva la Selva, Spain
>>>
>>>
>>>> Savia, Escuela de Pensamiento Ecologista, Guatemala
>>>
>>>
>>>> SEARICE, Philippines
>>>
>>>
>>>> Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Congregational Leadership, United States
>>>
>>>
>>>> Sunray Harvesters, India
>>>
>>>
>>>> SWISSAID, Switzerland
>>>
>>>
>>>> Seeds Action Network, Germany
>>>
>>>
>>>> Terra de Direitos, Human Rights Organization- Brazil
>>>
>>>
>>>> Terra-1530, Moldova
>>>
>>>
>>>> Texas Drought Project, USA
>>>
>>>
>>>> The Development Fund, Norway
>>>
>>>
>>>> The Enviro Show, Western Massachusetts/USA
>>>
>>>
>>>> The Koani Foundation, Lihue, Kauai, Hawaii
>>>
>>>
>>>> The Noordhoek Environmental Action Group, Noordhoek, Cape Town, South
>>>> Africa
>>>
>>>

>>>> Un Salto de Vida, AC, El Salto, Jalisco, M�xico

--

[John Gorman]

happy to add my name to your draft

John Gorman M. A. (Cantab.) Chartered Engineer

Member of the Institution of Mechanical Engineers

Member of the Institution of Engineering and Technology

[Josh Horton]

Several interesting points have been raised:

1. Ken describes several basic ETC positions. From what I can tell,
there is one additional underlying premise: modern capitalism, built
on science and technology, is responsible for the climate crisis,
therefore, the modern rationalist worldview is incapable of providing
a solution to climate change. The first part of this premise may or
may not be correct, but the second part certainly does not follow, and
the argument itself is divorced from our present reality of economic
inertia, political impasse, and limited options. I invite anyone from
the ETC Group to amend these characterizations.

2. I am willing to accept the list of signatory organizations at face
value, although the extent to which they represent global civil
society is questionable (from my neck of the woods, the Enviro Show? -
http://envirosho.blogspot.com/).

3. Friends of the Earth is a credible group, but it seems to be
fracturing on the question of geoengineering. FOE International and
its US chapter signed this letter, but John cites a 2009 FOE Briefing
Note expressing openness to geoengineering, and FOE (England, Wales &
Northern Ireland) expressed similar openness in a report last year
(http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Environment/documents/
2010/12/15/CarbonBudgetsReportdec14final.pdf). Where exactly does FOE
stand as an organization?

4. It appears that the Guardian has come out in opposition to
geoengineering. Its June 15 article (flagged by Wil Burns and others)
is clearly sympathetic to the HOME campaign, arguably mischaracterizes
the IPCC abstracts as "leaks," and is now followed by a featured
opinion piece from the ETC Group (noted by Stephen earlier). Getting
them to reprint Ken's points may be a challenge.

5. Andrew's draft is well written and timely - please add my name -
Joshua B. Horton, PhD.


Josh

> > On 16 June 2011 09:39, Stephen Salter<S.Sal...@ed.ac.uk>  wrote:
> >> Hi All
>
> >> Pat Mooney of the ETC group repeats much of the IPCC letter in today's
> >> Guardian see
>

> >>http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jun/15/geo-engineering-cli...

>
> >> Can we get the Guardian to print Ken's list of points?
>
> >> Stephen
>
> >> Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
> >> Institute for Energy Systems
> >> School of Engineering
> >> Mayfield Road
> >> University of Edinburgh EH9  3JL
> >> Scotland
> >> Tel +44 131 650 5704
> >> Mobile 07795 203 195
> >>www.see.ed.ac.uk/~shs
>
> >> On 16/06/2011 08:21, Andrew Lockley wrote:
>
> >> You'll have to question them directly
>
> >> I suggest that we circulate a response to each - likely the same as sent
> >> to
> >> the ipcc
>
> >> A
>

> >> On 16 Jun 2011 02:54,<voglerl...@gmail.com>  wrote:
> >>> Interesting list of groups. I will bet $100 that if each group were to
> >>> be
> >>> contacted, that we would find they have no knowledge of this ETC effort.
> >>> I
> >>> just randomly picked one... "Institute for Social Ecology" and searched
> >>> their website for "Geoengineering". This is what I
>
> >>> found....http://www.social-ecology.org/?s=geoengineering&submit.x=10&submit.y=9
> >>> No Result
>
> >>> So, I tried another...."Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy. USA"
> >>> and again searched their site for GE. Here is what I found
> >>>http://www.social-ecology.org/?s=geoengineering&submit.x=10&submit.y=9
> >>> No
> >>> Result
>
> >>> Being and hard headed SOUTHERN fellow, I tried one
> >>> more....."International
> >>> Presentation Association of the Sisters of the Presentation, USA" Here
> >>> is

> >>> the search resulthttp://www.presentationsisters.org/search-results.php

> >>> AGAIN NO RESULT!!!
>
> >>> Ok, I am upping the bet to $1,000. Any takers?
>

> >>> On , "Rau, Greg"<r...@llnl.gov>  wrote:

> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Rau, Greg]

'"Geoengineering is not a public good but could be a giant international
scandal with devastating consequences on the poor," said Diana Bronson, a
researcher with the ETC Group, an international non-governmental
organization.'

What is ETC's answer to the devastating consequences to the poor if by other
means we fail to mitigate climate change and ocean acidification? What are
those other means, aren't they currently failing, and what is ETC offering
as a better strategy? If one is concerned about the poor and the planet it
would seem dangerous to prematurely reject any potential mitigation option
until proven unsafe/unuseful. So what is ETC's real motivation, agenda, and
clientele?
-Greg

E&E News Climatewire
Leaked geoengineering plans draw ire from opponents (06/16/2011)

Scientists concerned about global warming are considering turning to some
radical solutions they hope will allow them to geoengineer the Earth's
climate, according to documents leaked from the United Nations.

Potential plans include painting streets and roofs white, planting
lighter-colored crops and shooting droplets of seawater into clouds, all in
an attempt to reflect sunlight away from the Earth. Other plans include
placing massive iron filing deposits in the world's oceans and suppressing
cirrus clouds.

The leaked papers outline plans that a group of 60 scientists are planning
to discuss and assess next week at the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate
Change (IPCC) in Lima, Peru. Far from being 100 percent confident in their
plans, the scientists expressed concerns that they could have unforeseen and
potentially permanent consequences.

A group of 125 environmental, human rights and development groups sent a
letter to IPCC head Rajenda Pachauri, outlining complaints that the IPCC had
no authority to be considering geoengineering. A larger concern surrounding
the IPCC meeting centers on who or what would regulate geoengineering.

"[Geoengineering] is not a scientific question, it is a political one.
International peasant organizations, indigenous peoples and social movements
have all expressed outright opposition to such measures as a false solution
to the climate crisis," said the letter.

Nations like the United States and Great Britain have supported
geoengineering research with millions of dollars in research funding. That
enthusiasm is not shared globally, though, and Catherine Redgwell, a
professor of international law at University College London, asserted: "A
multilateral geoengineering treaty is not likely or desirable. The appetite
for climate change law-making is low."

Without regulation, geoengineering opponents fear that technologies like the
ones outlined in the leaked papers could be pushed forward recklessly and
without oversight.

"Geoengineering is not a public good but could be a giant international
scandal with devastating consequences on the poor," said Diana Bronson, a
researcher with the ETC Group, an international non-governmental
organization (John Vidal, London Guardian, June 15). -- LN

[Alvia Gaskill]

The IPCC meeting as I understand it, is simply to consider the efficacy of
some of the proposed technological alternatives to emissions reductions,
i.e., geoengineering. It is not to adopt or endorse action plans based on
them. The IPCC has held workshops and published reports on the subject of
climate change for nearly 20 years and I don't think it has been their
policy or should it be to have every meeting vetted or overseen by people
from outside the discipline being considered.

Would you like for example, to have someone from the philosophy department
at your local university "sit in" on every discussion you have on
development of a research tool? Oh, this could have far reaching
implications. Better get the ethics people to sign off on this first. EPA
doesn't do this. I am getting ready to review SBIRs again and I don't think
that it's necessary to have anyone from ETC or the Guardian drop by to make
sure I don't ignore the intergenerational implications of the X technology.
That's for later.

There have been more than ample opportunities for the non science
contributors to make their case against geoengineering and they have already
received a disproportionate share of the attention as well as funding. The
recent meeting in the UK, the Asilomar conference and most recently, Ken's
wrongheaded hand wringing conclusion that the IPCC meeting needs greater
transparency just makes the problem worse. There's an old saying that you
shouldn't feed stray animals because it will just encourage them to come
back for more and bring some friends. Feeding ETC a steady diet of outrage
is just what they want.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Lockley" <and...@andrewlockley.com>
To: <s.sa...@ed.ac.uk>
Cc: <geoengi...@googlegroups.com>

A

Yours sincerely

>>> Rainforest Rescue � Rettet den Regenwald, Germany, Sisters of Charity of

>>> Nazareth Congregational Leadership, United States. Certainly we are all
>>> for biodiveristy, rainforests, Pacific islands, charity, etc. Why run
>>> the
>>> risk of losing them by not considering all of our options for preserving
>>> them?
>>
>>
>>
>>> I've learned that effective political messaging requires 3 things: a
>>> victim, a villain, and an opportunity. While HOME et al. certainly have
>>> the first two covered, they offer no alternative opportunities for
>>> saving
>>> the world. That's truly dangerous. Let's keep all of our options open.
>>
>>> -Greg
>>
>>> *
>>
>>> African Biodiversity Network, Africa, international
>>
>>
>>

>>> ATALC � Amigos de la Tierra America Latina y Caribe, Latin America,
>>> international
>>
>>
>>
>>> Coordinadora Andina de Organizaciones Ind�genas -CAOI, Andean,

>>> international
>>
>>
>>
>>> ETC group, international
>>
>>
>>
>>> Friends of the Earth International
>>
>>
>>
>>> Global Forest Coalition, International
>>
>>
>>
>>> Global Justice Ecology Project, International
>>
>>
>>
>>> GRAIN, International
>>
>>
>>
>>> Land is Life, international network of indigenous communities and
>>> organizations
>>
>>
>>
>>> Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate, International
>>
>>
>>
>>> International Center for Technology Assessment (ICTA), US /
>>> international
>>
>>
>>

>>> OILWATCH Sudam�rica, international

>>
>>
>>
>>> Pan African Climate Justice Alliance (PACJA), Africa, International
>>
>>
>>

>>> RALLT, Red por una Am�rica Latina libre de Transg�nicos, Latin America,
>>> international
>>
>>
>>
>>> Red Latinoamericana contra los Monocultivos de �rboles (RECOMA), Latin

>>> America, international
>>
>>
>>
>>> Redmanglar Internacional, Guatemala, international
>>
>>
>>
>>> Temple of Understanding US / international
>>
>>
>>
>>> Third World Network, international
>>
>>
>>
>>> Via Campesina, International Peasant Movement, international
>>
>>
>>
>>> World Future Council Foundation, international
>>
>>
>>
>>> World Rainforest Movement / Mov. Mundial de Bosques, international
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Aboriginal Legal Rights Movement Inc, Australia
>>
>>
>>

>>> Acci�n Ecol�gica, Ecuador
>>
>>
>>
>>> Acci�n por la Biodiversidad, Argentina
>>
>>
>>

>>> ADEID, Action pour un D�veloppement �quitable, Int�gr� et Durable,

>>> Cameroon
>>
>>
>>
>>> African Centre for Biosafety, South Africa
>>
>>
>>
>>> Alliance Sud, Switzerland
>>
>>
>>
>>> Amigos da Terra, Brazil
>>
>>
>>

>>> Amigu di Tera FoE Cura�ao, Brazil

>>
>>
>>
>>> APUNA, Andhra Pradesh United Nations Association, India
>>
>>
>>

>>> Asociaci�n ANDES, Cusco, Per�
>>
>>
>>

>>> Bio WILD Foundation, Biodiversity and Wildlife Integration for
>>> Livelihood
>>> Development, INDIA
>>
>>
>>
>>> Biofuelwatch, UK / US
>>
>>
>>

>>> Casifop, M�xico
>>
>>
>>
>>> Ceccam, M�xico
>>
>>
>>
>>> Cenami, M�xico
>>
>>
>>

>>> Censat Agua Viva, Colombia
>>
>>
>>
>>> Center for Cultural Interchange and Greenheart, USA
>>
>>
>>
>>> Centre for Civil Society Environmental Justice Project, Durban, South
>>> Africa
>>
>>
>>

>>> Centro Ecol�gico IP�, Brazil
>>
>>
>>
>>> Centro Ecologista Renacer, Argentina
>>
>>
>>
>>> Centro Fray Juli�n Garc�s de Derechos Humanos y Desarrollo Comunitario,
>>> M�xico

>>
>>
>>
>>> CESTA, Amigos de la Tierra El Salvador
>>
>>
>>
>>> COECOCEIBA-AT Costa Rica
>>
>>
>>

>>> Colectivo COA, M�xico
>>
>>
>>
>>> Colectivo Voces Ecol�gicas COVEC, Panam�
>>
>>
>>

>>> Consejo de Ejidos y Comunidades Opositores a la Presa La Parota (CECOP),

>>> M�xico

>>
>>
>>
>>> Cook Islands Climate Action Network (CICAN), Rarotonga, Cook Islands
>>
>>
>>
>>> Cooperativa por un Ambiente Biodiverso y Sustentable, CAMBIOS, SC de

>>> RL,M�xico
>>
>>
>>
>>> Corner House, UK
>>
>>
>>

>>> Cuarto Menguante Aliento por la conservaci�n AC, M�xico
>>
>>
>>

>>> Dewan Adat Papua, New Guinea
>>
>>
>>

>>> Dogwood Alliance � Asheville, NC, USA

>>
>>
>>
>>> Ecological Society of the Philippines
>>
>>
>>

>>> Ecologistas en Acci�n, Spain
>>
>>
>>
>>> Ecomunidades, red ecologista aut�noma de la cuenca de M�xico
>>
>>
>>

>>> Educaci�n AT Argentina

>>
>>
>>
>>> CEIBA AT, Guatemala
>>
>>
>>
>>> Ethiopian Society or Consumer Protection, Ethiopia
>>
>>
>>
>>> Fair Coop (Fair Trade), Italy
>>
>>
>>
>>> Family Farm Defenders, Madison, Wi, USA
>>
>>
>>
>>> FASE, Brazil
>>
>>
>>
>>> Fondation Sciences Citoyennes, France
>>
>>
>>

>>> Frente de Pueblos en Defensa de la Tierra y el Agua, Regi�n Malinche,
>>> M�xico
>>
>>
>>

>>> Friends of the Earth US
>>
>>
>>
>>> Food First, US
>>
>>
>>

>>> Fundaci�n Heifer-Ecuador
>>
>>
>>
>>> Fundaci�n por el Futuro, Madrid, Espa�a
>>
>>
>>

>>> Fundaci�n Promotora de Cooperativas � FUNPROCOOP, El Salvador

>>
>>
>>
>>> Gaia Foundation, UK
>>
>>
>>
>>> GMWatch, UK
>>
>>
>>
>>> Greenovation Center, China
>>
>>
>>
>>> Grupo SEMILLAS,Colombia
>>
>>
>>
>>> Grupo Thunhupha, Bolivia
>>
>>
>>
>>> IBON International, Philippines
>>
>>
>>
>>> Indian biodiversity forum, India
>>
>>
>>
>>> Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy, USA
>>
>>
>>
>>> Institute of Science in Society, Mae-Wan Ho, UK
>>
>>
>>
>>> Instituto de Estudios Ecologistas del Tercer Mundo, Ecuador.
>>
>>
>>
>>> International Presentation Association of the Sisters of the
>>> Presentation, USA
>>
>>
>>
>>> Institute for Social Ecology, USA
>>
>>
>>

>>> ITC, Comit� Intertribal, Brazil

>>
>>
>>
>>> Island Sustainability Alliance CIS Inc (ISACI) Rarotonga, COOK ISLANDS
>>
>>
>>
>>> Movimiento Madre Tierra, Honduras
>>
>>
>>
>>> Ka Lahui Hawai'i
>>
>>
>>

>>> Kiee Lu'u SSS M�xico

>>
>>
>>
>>> L'Union Paysanne, Canada
>>
>>
>>
>>> La Asamblea Veracruzana de Iniciativa y Defensa Ambiental (LAVIDA),

>>> M�xico
>>
>>
>>
>>> Mangrove Action Project, USA
>>
>>
>>
>>> Movimiento de la Juventud Kuna, Panam�

>>
>>
>>
>>> Movimiento por la Vida y la Equidad Campesina, El Salvador
>>
>>
>>
>>> Na Koa Ikaika KaLahui Hawaii
>>
>>
>>
>>> National Indigenous Peoples of Solomons Islands (NIPS), Solomon Islands
>>
>>
>>
>>> National Toxics Network Inc. Coordinator, Australia
>>
>>
>>
>>> New World Society For Friendship Cooperation And Peace, India
>>
>>
>>
>>> Ngati Hine tribe of the Bay Of Islands, New Zealand
>>
>>
>>
>>> NusaAlifuru of Maluku (Pacific, considered Indonesian)
>>
>>
>>
>>> Observatorio Latinoamericano de Conflictos Ambientales -OLCA, Chile
>>
>>
>>

>>> OFRANEH, Organizacion Fraternal Negra Hondure�a, Honduras

>>
>>
>>
>>> Ole Siosiomaga Society Incorporated (OLSSI), SAMOA
>>
>>
>>

>>> Organizaci�n de Agricultores Biol�gicos AC, M�xico
>>
>>
>>

>>> Philippinenbuero eV im Asienhaus; Germany
>>
>>
>>
>>> Proceso de Comunidades Negras de Colombia
>>
>>
>>

>>> Rainforest Rescue � Rettet den Regenwald, Germany
>>
>>
>>
>>> RAPA NUI PARLIAMENT (Polinesia)
>>
>>
>>
>>> Red de Coordinaci�n en Biodiversidad, Costa Rica
>>
>>
>>
>>> Rede Brazileira de Pesquisas em Nanotecnologia � RENANOSOMA, Brazil

>>
>>
>>
>>> REDES AT, Uruguay
>>
>>
>>
>>> SAFEAGE, Observatory, Cape Town, South Africa
>>
>>
>>
>>> Salva la Selva, Spain
>>
>>
>>
>>> Savia, Escuela de Pensamiento Ecologista, Guatemala
>>
>>
>>
>>> SEARICE, Philippines
>>
>>
>>
>>> Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Congregational Leadership, United States
>>
>>
>>
>>> Sunray Harvesters, India
>>
>>
>>
>>> SWISSAID, Switzerland
>>
>>
>>
>>> Seeds Action Network, Germany
>>
>>
>>
>>> Terra de Direitos, Human Rights Organization- Brazil
>>
>>
>>
>>> Terra-1530, Moldova
>>
>>
>>
>>> Texas Drought Project, USA
>>
>>
>>
>>> The Development Fund, Norway
>>
>>
>>
>>> The Enviro Show, Western Massachusetts/USA
>>
>>
>>
>>> The Koani Foundation, Lihue, Kauai, Hawaii
>>
>>
>>
>>> The Noordhoek Environmental Action Group, Noordhoek, Cape Town, South
>>> Africa
>>
>>
>>

>>> Un Salto de Vida, AC, El Salto, Jalisco, M�xico

[Andrew Lockley]

Etc argument that geo research raises risks of inaction on emissions is credible and can't be ignored - even if people may argue it's wrong.

If my research project involved the development and testing of nuclear weapons, I'd think it proper to have ethics and social science support when it was assessed, as its very existence is a game changer.

Etc will not shut up if technocrats make decisions behind closed doors, even if these aren't policy decisions. Lock outs are not smart, imo

The perception that reports are policy is also non trivial. We would be naive to assume others won't take that stance.

We should learn from the past.  Even today, the huge potential of genetics is held back by the history of hubris and recklessness of the eugenics movement

Let's not make the same mistakes again.

A

>>>> Rainforest Rescue – Rettet den Regenwald, Germany, Sisters of Charity of

>>>> Nazareth Congregational Leadership, United States. Certainly we are all
>>>> for biodiveristy, rainforests, Pacific islands, charity, etc. Why run
>>>> the
>>>> risk of losing them by not considering all of our options for preserving
>>>> them?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I've learned that effective political messaging requires 3 things: a
>>>> victim, a villain, and an opportunity. While HOME et al. certainly have
>>>> the first two covered, they offer no alternative opportunities for
>>>> saving
>>>> the world. That's truly dangerous. Let's keep all of our options open.
>>>
>>>> -Greg
>>>
>>>> *
>>>
>>>> African Biodiversity Network, Africa, international
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> ATALC – Amigos de la Tierra America Latina y Caribe, Latin America,
>>>> international
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Coordinadora Andina de Organizaciones Indígenas -CAOI, Andean,

>>>> international
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> ETC group, international
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Friends of the Earth International
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Global Forest Coalition, International
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Global Justice Ecology Project, International
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> GRAIN, International
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Land is Life, international network of indigenous communities and
>>>> organizations
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate, International
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> International Center for Technology Assessment (ICTA), US /
>>>> international
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> OILWATCH Sudamérica, international

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Pan African Climate Justice Alliance (PACJA), Africa, International
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> RALLT, Red por una América Latina libre de Transgénicos, Latin America,
>>>> international
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Red Latinoamericana contra los Monocultivos de Árboles (RECOMA), Latin

>>>> America, international
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Redmanglar Internacional, Guatemala, international
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Temple of Understanding US / international
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Third World Network, international
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Via Campesina, International Peasant Movement, international
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> World Future Council Foundation, international
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> World Rainforest Movement / Mov. Mundial de Bosques, international
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Aboriginal Legal Rights Movement Inc, Australia
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Acción Ecológica, Ecuador
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Acción por la Biodiversidad, Argentina
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> ADEID, Action pour un Développement Équitable, Intégré et Durable,

>>>> Cameroon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> African Centre for Biosafety, South Africa
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Alliance Sud, Switzerland
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Amigos da Terra, Brazil
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Amigu di Tera FoE Curaçao, Brazil

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> APUNA, Andhra Pradesh United Nations Association, India
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Asociación ANDES, Cusco, Perú

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Bio WILD Foundation, Biodiversity and Wildlife Integration for
>>>> Livelihood
>>>> Development, INDIA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Biofuelwatch, UK / US
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Casifop, México
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ceccam, México
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Cenami, México
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Censat Agua Viva, Colombia
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Center for Cultural Interchange and Greenheart, USA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Centre for Civil Society Environmental Justice Project, Durban, South
>>>> Africa
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Centro Ecológico IPÉ, Brazil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Centro Ecologista Renacer, Argentina
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Centro Fray Julián Garcés de Derechos Humanos y Desarrollo Comunitario,
>>>> México

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> CESTA, Amigos de la Tierra El Salvador
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> COECOCEIBA-AT Costa Rica
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Colectivo COA, México
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Colectivo Voces Ecológicas COVEC, Panamá
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Consejo de Ejidos y Comunidades Opositores a la Presa La Parota (CECOP),

>>>> México

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Cook Islands Climate Action Network (CICAN), Rarotonga, Cook Islands
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Cooperativa por un Ambiente Biodiverso y Sustentable, CAMBIOS, SC de

>>>> RL,México
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Corner House, UK
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Cuarto Menguante Aliento por la conservación AC, México

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dewan Adat Papua, New Guinea
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Dogwood Alliance – Asheville, NC, USA

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ecological Society of the Philippines
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Ecologistas en Acción, Spain
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ecomunidades, red ecologista autónoma de la cuenca de México
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Educación AT Argentina

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> CEIBA AT, Guatemala
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ethiopian Society or Consumer Protection, Ethiopia
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Fair Coop (Fair Trade), Italy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Family Farm Defenders, Madison, Wi, USA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> FASE, Brazil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Fondation Sciences Citoyennes, France
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Frente de Pueblos en Defensa de la Tierra y el Agua, Región Malinche,
>>>> México

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Friends of the Earth US
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Food First, US
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Fundación Heifer-Ecuador
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Fundación por el Futuro, Madrid, España
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Fundación Promotora de Cooperativas – FUNPROCOOP, El Salvador

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Gaia Foundation, UK
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> GMWatch, UK
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Greenovation Center, China
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Grupo SEMILLAS,Colombia
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Grupo Thunhupha, Bolivia
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> IBON International, Philippines
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Indian biodiversity forum, India
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy, USA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Institute of Science in Society, Mae-Wan Ho, UK
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Instituto de Estudios Ecologistas del Tercer Mundo, Ecuador.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> International Presentation Association of the Sisters of the
>>>> Presentation, USA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Institute for Social Ecology, USA
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> ITC, Comité Intertribal, Brazil

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Island Sustainability Alliance CIS Inc (ISACI) Rarotonga, COOK ISLANDS
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Movimiento Madre Tierra, Honduras
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ka Lahui Hawai'i
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Kiee Lu'u SSS México

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> L'Union Paysanne, Canada
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> La Asamblea Veracruzana de Iniciativa y Defensa Ambiental (LAVIDA),

>>>> México
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Mangrove Action Project, USA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Movimiento de la Juventud Kuna, Panamá

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Movimiento por la Vida y la Equidad Campesina, El Salvador
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Na Koa Ikaika KaLahui Hawaii
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> National Indigenous Peoples of Solomons Islands (NIPS), Solomon Islands
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> National Toxics Network Inc. Coordinator, Australia
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> New World Society For Friendship Cooperation And Peace, India
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ngati Hine tribe of the Bay Of Islands, New Zealand
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> NusaAlifuru of Maluku (Pacific, considered Indonesian)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Observatorio Latinoamericano de Conflictos Ambientales -OLCA, Chile
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> OFRANEH, Organizacion Fraternal Negra Hondureña, Honduras

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ole Siosiomaga Society Incorporated (OLSSI), SAMOA
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Organización de Agricultores Biológicos AC, México
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Philippinenbuero eV im Asienhaus; Germany
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Proceso de Comunidades Negras de Colombia
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Rainforest Rescue – Rettet den Regenwald, Germany
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> RAPA NUI PARLIAMENT (Polinesia)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Red de Coordinación en Biodiversidad, Costa Rica
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Rede Brazileira de Pesquisas em Nanotecnologia – RENANOSOMA, Brazil

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> REDES AT, Uruguay
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> SAFEAGE, Observatory, Cape Town, South Africa
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Salva la Selva, Spain
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Savia, Escuela de Pensamiento Ecologista, Guatemala
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> SEARICE, Philippines
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Congregational Leadership, United States
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Sunray Harvesters, India
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> SWISSAID, Switzerland
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Seeds Action Network, Germany
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Terra de Direitos, Human Rights Organization- Brazil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Terra-1530, Moldova
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Texas Drought Project, USA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> The Development Fund, Norway
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> The Enviro Show, Western Massachusetts/USA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> The Koani Foundation, Lihue, Kauai, Hawaii
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> The Noordhoek Environmental Action Group, Noordhoek, Cape Town, South
>>>> Africa
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Un Salto de Vida, AC, El Salto, Jalisco, México

[Alvia Gaskill]

And lest you forget, ETC blew off Asilomar (as did Ken) rather
hypocritically, citing funding reasons when that had nothing to do with it.
So they had an opportunity to participate in the largest gathering devoted
to governance and callously passed it up. I would also note that none of
the mainstream environmental groups are making the absurd demands of ETC
regarding the Peru meeting. Where is Greenpeace? EDF? NRDC? Sierra Club?
World Wildlife Fund? By their silence, they endorse letting the scientists
do their job without the circus atmosphere that ETC, the Westboro Baptist
Church of modern technology is sure to bring. And BTW, Mike, the IPCC is
not a city council. It answers to the UN, not whoever shows up with an axe
to grind.

[Mike MacCracken]

Dear Alvia--Legally, IPCC is organized by the UN, but it really answers to
all of us, at least it needs to if it is to be effective.

Mike

>>>> Rainforest Rescue ­ Rettet den Regenwald, Germany, Sisters of Charity of

>>>> Nazareth Congregational Leadership, United States. Certainly we are all
>>>> for biodiveristy, rainforests, Pacific islands, charity, etc. Why run
>>>> the
>>>> risk of losing them by not considering all of our options for preserving
>>>> them?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I've learned that effective political messaging requires 3 things: a
>>>> victim, a villain, and an opportunity. While HOME et al. certainly have
>>>> the first two covered, they offer no alternative opportunities for
>>>> saving
>>>> the world. That's truly dangerous. Let's keep all of our options open.
>>>
>>>> -Greg
>>>
>>>> *
>>>
>>>> African Biodiversity Network, Africa, international
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> ATALC ­ Amigos de la Tierra America Latina y Caribe, Latin America,
>>>> international
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Coordinadora Andina de Organizaciones Indígenas -CAOI, Andean,

>>>> international
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> ETC group, international
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Friends of the Earth International
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Global Forest Coalition, International
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Global Justice Ecology Project, International
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> GRAIN, International
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Land is Life, international network of indigenous communities and
>>>> organizations
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate, International
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> International Center for Technology Assessment (ICTA), US /
>>>> international
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> OILWATCH Sudamérica, international

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Pan African Climate Justice Alliance (PACJA), Africa, International
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> RALLT, Red por una América Latina libre de Transgénicos, Latin America,
>>>> international
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Red Latinoamericana contra los Monocultivos de Árboles (RECOMA), Latin

>>>> America, international
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Redmanglar Internacional, Guatemala, international
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Temple of Understanding US / international
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Third World Network, international
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Via Campesina, International Peasant Movement, international
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> World Future Council Foundation, international
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> World Rainforest Movement / Mov. Mundial de Bosques, international
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Aboriginal Legal Rights Movement Inc, Australia
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Acción Ecológica, Ecuador
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Acción por la Biodiversidad, Argentina
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> ADEID, Action pour un Développement Équitable, Intégré et Durable,

>>>> Cameroon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> African Centre for Biosafety, South Africa
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Alliance Sud, Switzerland
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Amigos da Terra, Brazil
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Amigu di Tera FoE Curaçao, Brazil

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> APUNA, Andhra Pradesh United Nations Association, India
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Asociación ANDES, Cusco, Perú

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Bio WILD Foundation, Biodiversity and Wildlife Integration for
>>>> Livelihood
>>>> Development, INDIA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Biofuelwatch, UK / US
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Casifop, México
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ceccam, México
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Cenami, México
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Censat Agua Viva, Colombia
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Center for Cultural Interchange and Greenheart, USA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Centre for Civil Society Environmental Justice Project, Durban, South
>>>> Africa
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Centro Ecológico IPÉ, Brazil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Centro Ecologista Renacer, Argentina
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Centro Fray Julián Garcés de Derechos Humanos y Desarrollo Comunitario,
>>>> México

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> CESTA, Amigos de la Tierra El Salvador
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> COECOCEIBA-AT Costa Rica
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Colectivo COA, México
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Colectivo Voces Ecológicas COVEC, Panamá
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Consejo de Ejidos y Comunidades Opositores a la Presa La Parota (CECOP),

>>>> México

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Cook Islands Climate Action Network (CICAN), Rarotonga, Cook Islands
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Cooperativa por un Ambiente Biodiverso y Sustentable, CAMBIOS, SC de

>>>> RL,México
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Corner House, UK
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Cuarto Menguante Aliento por la conservación AC, México

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dewan Adat Papua, New Guinea
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Dogwood Alliance ­ Asheville, NC, USA

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ecological Society of the Philippines
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Ecologistas en Acción, Spain
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ecomunidades, red ecologista autónoma de la cuenca de México
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Educación AT Argentina

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> CEIBA AT, Guatemala
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ethiopian Society or Consumer Protection, Ethiopia
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Fair Coop (Fair Trade), Italy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Family Farm Defenders, Madison, Wi, USA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> FASE, Brazil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Fondation Sciences Citoyennes, France
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Frente de Pueblos en Defensa de la Tierra y el Agua, Región Malinche,
>>>> México

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Friends of the Earth US
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Food First, US
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Fundación Heifer-Ecuador
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Fundación por el Futuro, Madrid, España
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Fundación Promotora de Cooperativas ­ FUNPROCOOP, El Salvador

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Gaia Foundation, UK
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> GMWatch, UK
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Greenovation Center, China
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Grupo SEMILLAS,Colombia
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Grupo Thunhupha, Bolivia
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> IBON International, Philippines
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Indian biodiversity forum, India
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy, USA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Institute of Science in Society, Mae-Wan Ho, UK
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Instituto de Estudios Ecologistas del Tercer Mundo, Ecuador.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> International Presentation Association of the Sisters of the
>>>> Presentation, USA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Institute for Social Ecology, USA
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> ITC, Comité Intertribal, Brazil

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Island Sustainability Alliance CIS Inc (ISACI) Rarotonga, COOK ISLANDS
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Movimiento Madre Tierra, Honduras
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ka Lahui Hawai'i
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Kiee Lu'u SSS México

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> L'Union Paysanne, Canada
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> La Asamblea Veracruzana de Iniciativa y Defensa Ambiental (LAVIDA),

>>>> México
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Mangrove Action Project, USA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Movimiento de la Juventud Kuna, Panamá

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Movimiento por la Vida y la Equidad Campesina, El Salvador
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Na Koa Ikaika KaLahui Hawaii
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> National Indigenous Peoples of Solomons Islands (NIPS), Solomon Islands
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> National Toxics Network Inc. Coordinator, Australia
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> New World Society For Friendship Cooperation And Peace, India
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ngati Hine tribe of the Bay Of Islands, New Zealand
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> NusaAlifuru of Maluku (Pacific, considered Indonesian)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Observatorio Latinoamericano de Conflictos Ambientales -OLCA, Chile
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> OFRANEH, Organizacion Fraternal Negra Hondureña, Honduras

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ole Siosiomaga Society Incorporated (OLSSI), SAMOA
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Organización de Agricultores Biológicos AC, México
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Philippinenbuero eV im Asienhaus; Germany
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Proceso de Comunidades Negras de Colombia
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Rainforest Rescue ­ Rettet den Regenwald, Germany
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> RAPA NUI PARLIAMENT (Polinesia)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Red de Coordinación en Biodiversidad, Costa Rica
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Rede Brazileira de Pesquisas em Nanotecnologia ­ RENANOSOMA, Brazil

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> REDES AT, Uruguay
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> SAFEAGE, Observatory, Cape Town, South Africa
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Salva la Selva, Spain
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Savia, Escuela de Pensamiento Ecologista, Guatemala
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> SEARICE, Philippines
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Congregational Leadership, United States
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Sunray Harvesters, India
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> SWISSAID, Switzerland
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Seeds Action Network, Germany
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Terra de Direitos, Human Rights Organization- Brazil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Terra-1530, Moldova
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Texas Drought Project, USA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> The Development Fund, Norway
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> The Enviro Show, Western Massachusetts/USA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> The Koani Foundation, Lihue, Kauai, Hawaii
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> The Noordhoek Environmental Action Group, Noordhoek, Cape Town, South
>>>> Africa
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> Un Salto de Vida, AC, El Salto, Jalisco, México

[Michael Hayes]

Hi Folks, 

Andrew, I think your proposed letter to the IPCC countering the ETC et.alia "Open Letter" should be the main focus. However, I will start compiling a contact info list of the "signers" if a direct response letter is to be prepared. The points which Ken offers are a great rallying flag for anyone interested in GE and Mike's "Engineering Geoengineering" is a clear and practical road map for what is technically needed. Getting that combined vision into the media, in the wake of the ETC offensive, can be profoundly important at this time.     

I  just Goggled the"Open Letter" and have found a small handful of other groups posting copies of the letter. It does appear that the vast majority of the signers have not bothered to reference the letter and so I have to again ask myself; Is the list of groups simply window dressing? As you know, the media has no recognized "GE Group" to seek out a balanced view from and so your efforts are very important and timely.

As to my bet offer, I would have lost as I can see about 5 organizations (out of how many?) did mimic ETC's posting. I should have used the qualifier of "vast majority" of the groups as opposed to the all inclusive phrasing that I used. Still, the ETC effort does remind me of a Peacock.....all show, little meat and lots of fertilizer.

Thanks again for your patience,

Michael           

  

[Ken Caldeira]

I do think it would be useful if there were a media savvy organization with a strong internationalist perspective that would in a responsible way advocate for the need to pursue a broad spectrum of approaches to reduce climate risk.

I listened to an interesting podcast on the history of blood transfusions. There was great opposition to this research in the 17th century, mostly by people claiming the moral high ground. Yet, scientists at that time thought that blood transfusions, while risky, would be a potential way of alleviating harm done by various diseases and maladies. This research was pursued and today we look at blood transfusion as a risky thing to do, but which can save lives in extreme circumstances.

There are parallels between ETC and the people opposing the study of blood transfusion in the 17th century.

http://www.virginiacampbellmd.com/blog/2011/4/27/exploring-17th-century-medicine-with-holly-tucker.html

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/geoengineering/-/pCwJ4fDeT2QJ.

[Michael Hayes]

Hi Folks,

Ken, on the issue of media support, what about a new website;

As this group knows, the issue of GE has a need for broad public education on the many important issues within the general topic. An established PR firm would be a good investment at this time. Yet, who and what will the PR organization represent? Also, who will pay for building public support for a "concept" which has no product and has no current industry. I believe that a volunteer core of interested individuals can be a good start. Boot strapping up this type of network will take time and maybe some support from the "professional" level researchers/institutions in the form of an educational syllabus(s). It would be important to have this peer accepted information prepared at different educational levels. A mirror site to this group, which would provide translations/clarifications and background information, may help counter some of the PR damage some of the fringe groups are causing. 

The amateur class scientist has a long history of important contributions throughout the history of science. On the issue of GE, that class of interested layperson can help translate the science into street level language. Simply finding ways and funds to actually translate the core science papers is an issue that should get some attention. I have had folks in Japan expressing frustration over the lack of translated documents on this issue. Finding means to translate for just the top 10 languages would be a large chore. However, this effort would provide an opportunity to distill down to the core documents which are needed to understand the current environmental/policy situation and the key papers addressing the actual science/technology of any plan of action.

Yes, anyone with a true interest can search out and find all of that type of info within a few web sessions. Yet, I do believe a website of "Cliff Notes" for internet GE literature search is justified at this point. I also believe it should be kept up to date each day. 

Finding access to graphics production for use in this effort is important for obvious reasons. The few websites which mimicked ETC's Open Letter used the same "Contrail" picture. No surprise there, however my point is that all tools will be used against GE and many of those same tools will need to be used in countering these attacks. Many of the main GE concepts provide graphics, yet being able to develop new graphic as issues progress will help to a large degree. Being able to offer to members of the public graphics developement to illustrate a new idea would be a big draw to such a site. If an interested person can describe a "new and useful" concept to the group at a satisfactory level, they could get help to illustrate it. That would show an openness and inclusion which many would like to see and a diamond in the rough just might show up.    

As we know, GE has a much tougher battle than the left fringe as GE needs to be ruled by logic/science/technology and practical policy craft (not to mention complete openness in communications). ETC et alia simply has to draw scary pictures and whine about "Elite Northerners" (and time media releases with their buddies). Even so, they have already won an important battle through the Bio-Diversity scam. GE can, has been and will be subjected to these simple strategic and tactical submarine efforts. GE's only option is to simply out educate and out class the foe! 

Finding the funding for a dedicated website will not be a major challenge and we all know that the funding origin(s) will be subjected to scrutiny. At this time, however, any funding from any source can help the concept of GE weather the strategic attack we witnessed on Monday. 

It take 3 people to start a 501 c3. It would take less than $900 a month to maintain a well done website and the extra cost of translations/graphics can be subjects of yearly fund-raisers. Give the people of the world the basic information in their own language and give them a way to express their own ideas for helping, and they will want to help.

I hope this suggestion helps.

Michael 

[Alvia Gaskill]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110618/wl_afp/unclimatewarmingtechnologyengineeringipcc_20110618101020

Note especially the use of the term "quick fix" as if any of the
technologies could be used quickly and of the term "solutions," as if these
would solve the underlying problem. I also recall that part of the
Republican budget deal for 2011 was to eliminate funding for attending these
meetings as well as the emissions cuts ones. Guess that one didn't make it.

UN meets to mull climate change quick-fix options
by Marlowe Hood Marlowe Hood Sat Jun 18, 6:10 am ET

BONN (AFP) � On the heels of another halting round of talks on climate
change, UN scientists this week will review quick-fix options for beating
back the threat of global warming that rely on technology rather than
political wrangling.

Experts from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), meeting
for three days from Monday in the Peruvian capital Lima, will ponder
"geo-engineering" solutions designed to cool the planet, or at least brake
the startling rise in Earth's temperature.

Seeding the ocean with iron, scattering heat-reflecting particles in the
stratosphere, building towers to suck carbon dioxide (CO2) out of the
atmosphere, and erecting a giant sunshade in space are all on the examining
table.

Critics say such schemes -- some of which have been tested experimentally --
are a roll of the dice with Earth's climate system and its complex web of
biodiversity.

[Which schemes have been tested experimentally? The few OIF field
experiments? Hardly definitive.]

And even if one problem is solved, they argue, it may be impossible to
anticipate knock-on effects and unintended consequences.

There is a political danger as well, climate policy experts caution: the
prospect of a quick fix to global warming could weaken an already fragile
global consensus on the need to reduce greenhouse gases or subvert
complicated methods for measuring emissions cuts.

[1. How would geoengineering "subvert complicated methods for measuring
emissions cuts?"

2. The prospect of a "quick fix to global warming" would be welcomed by
everyone except people making a living studying global warming.

3. The "fragile global consensus on the need to reduce greenhouse gases"
does not exist, unless you actually believe what countries have been saying
for the last 20 years. If you do, then I have some choice land in the
Maldives I would like to sell you.]

"It's a convenient way for Northern governments to dodge their commitments
to emissions reduction," said Silvia Ribeiro of the ETC Group, a technology
watchdog group.

[ETC does not speak for all "climate policy experts," although AFP
apparently thinks they do. Most likely, it is because they are the only
ones complaining about this meeting and the media always tries to give the
objectors equal status to the majority, whether that is justified or not.]

Last week, more than 100 organisations, including ETC and Friends of the
Earth, sent an open letter to the IPCC "demanding a clear statement of its
commitment to precaution and to the existing international moratorium on
geo-engineering."

[Failing to note or even ask who these 100 "organizations" are and how many
people they actually represent. Looks like FOE gets tagged as the
legitimate and recognizable name in the bunch. But as I mentioned before,
WWF, Greeniepeace, Sierra, EDF and NRDC are sitting this one out.]

Only four years ago, in its landmark Fourth Assessment Report, the IPCC
dismissed geo-engineering in a brief aside as charged with potential risk
and unquantified cost.

But now the Nobel-winning panel is taking a closer look, a telling sign, for
some, that the effort to tackle global warming through politics is taking
too long and bearing too little fruit.

Delegates ended another 12-day talkfest in Bonn on Friday under the UN
Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC), still deeply riven over who
should cut their emissions, by how much and when.

Current pledges fall far short of holding temperature rise in check below
2.0 degree Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit) compared with pre-industrial
levels, a widely accepted threshold for safety.

IPCC officials defend the new review on several grounds.

To begin with, it is what members of the 194-nation intergovernmental body
asked for, said Jean-Pascal van Ypersele, a leading Belgian scientist and
vice chair of the IPCC.

[If the helpless and victimized "South" were truly opposed to such
discussions, where is the official statement from their governments?
Indonesia, the 4th most populous nation on Earth? Brazil? South Africa?
India? China? Pakistan? Bangladesh? So it's not a North vs. South issue
at all. And don't tell me the government of Brazil doesn't speak for its
people. The previous president left office with a more than 70% approval
rating.]

"My concern is to fulfill an IPCC mandate to provide the best information
available to take informed decisions to protect the climate and the
environment," he said by telephone.

"We will look at the advantages and possibilities, but we will also look at
the potentially negative aspects."

The experts meeting Monday, he added, review the state of scientific
knowledge but do not make policy recommendations.

[Exactly how this has been described previously.]

"In the absence of an objective IPCC assessment, the only information
available to policy makers would be from quite a diverse range of sources,
some of which might have an interest at stake," he said.

[Correct, but I would caution that among the people participating are some
who have both financial and political interests as well, so that must also
be considered in the final evaluation. In general, though, even with these
individuals involvement, most scientists are opposed to geoengineering, so
anything coming out of Lima resembling "we need further research" would be
considered an endorsement at this point.]

Geo-engineering schemes can be as simple as planting trees to absorb CO2 or
painting flat roofs white to reflect sunlight back into space, a technique
already in use in many sun-baked urban settings.

[In spite of efforts to market it as such, the roof whitening really isn't
on a large enough scale to have any significant impact on global climate
change or even on urban climate. A recent paper published this weekend
found that afforestation in the temperate regions is a waste of time. The
increased albedo offsets any gain in CO2 capture and the amount of land
required impinges on food production.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110619/sc_afp/climatewarmingforestsscience_20110619171818 ]

They also include scattering sea salt aerosols in low marine clouds to
render them more mirror-like, sowing the stratosphere with reflective
sulphate particles, or "fertilising" the ocean surface with iron to spur the
growth of micro-organisms that gobble up CO2.

At the sci-fi end of the scale is a proposal -- which exists, for now, only
on paper -- for a sunshade positioned at a key point between Earth and the
Sun that would deflect one or two percent of solar radiation, turning the
planet's thermostat down a notch.

In an analysis published in September 2009, the Royal Society, Britain's
academy of sciences, judged that planting forests and building towers to
capture CO2 could make a useful contribution -- once they are demonstrated
to be "safe, effective, sustainable and affordable."

It also noted that blunting the impact of solar radiation would still not
lower atmospheric concentrations of CO2, which is also driving ocean
acidification.

[Finally, regarding who should participate in these meetings, I had a
discussion this weekend regarding the Science Advisory Board of the USEPA, a
sort of permanent IPCC and analogous to the Air Resources Board in
California. The SAB does provide policy recommendations and its meetings
are open to the public and the media. But meetings that are tasked with
reviewing the efficacy of scientific information are not open (e.g. grant
proposal rerviews), any more than the meetings that the various bodies held
internally to prepare their reports on geoengineering or me discussing
journal article reviews with the team working on the comments. So Ken and
Mike's wishy washy recommendations that observers be present are simply
wrong. BTW, would you like to have the AFP reporter in the meeting room?
How about reporters "sitting in" with president Obama as he approves the
killing of bin Laden? Of course, there are some areas where full disclosure
is desirable and even mandated. The News and Observer, the paper that
covers Raleigh, NC and surrounding areas (actual the entire state) recently
published a link to a state database where one can see the salaries of all
professors at the state universities. Duke is private, so it isn't
included. Would like to see a similar database for all states, especially
in these budget challenged times. Have fun.]

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/02/24/1011452/university-employee-salaries.html?appSession=974222361451730