Attention Turntable Owners

[John Mayberry]

I’ve been giving it some thought lately and it appears that many of the tables have failed from the same cause.

 

My suggestion is communally work together, find the best resources to address this issue, and sort it out.

 

Clearly the efforts involves someone getting into the units, figuring out the issues and coming up with a long term fix.

 

 

To that end I would suggest the following:

 

1.      Find someone in the group willing to take the task on.

2.      Gather together any and all documentation we can.

3.      Find a servo motor and control specialist and approach him/her with prospect of multiple repairs.

4.      Understand the issue, fix the first table.

5.      Schedule the rest of the repairs sequentially.

6.       

 

Thoughts?

 

John

 

 

 

 

 

John Mayberry

VP, Engineering
Emmaco, Inc.
626 799 9993

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[Sean Gibbins]

Hi John,

Not being a (Gale) turntable owner I can't really speak with any authority on the matter but I think you have pretty much nailed it there.

I wonder if point 2 might also include speaking to anyone who worked on the original design? I seem to recall there was some discussion about this some time ago, but didn't pay it too much attention for the reason mentioned above.

Also, is it worth starting a dedicated 'me too' thread where owners identify their turntables and faults so that they can form an accurate, centralised picture of what they are dealing with?

Sean
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[SimonY]

Thank you John for the thoughts. I also think that the first step is to get a schematic for the motor and controller. My suggestion would be to find and commission an electronics under grauduate to reverse engineer the electronics and develop a schematic: I am told this would be about a weeks work. If the turntable owners were interested in finding and contributing to this effort I believe many of us would have our turntable up and running in no time. With labor rates being cheaper in the USA I would also suggest that an owner over then supplies the turntable:

There is no user manual or setup manual. I never found any design  documents when I was searching. See some of my posts from a year back or more.

Regards

Simon

[Toby (Idiosyncratic)]

What appears to be the main issue? The turntable just not spinning up? Or erratic speed control? Intermittent issues?

I will try and borrow my great uncles GT2101 which is apparently up in his loft somewhere, who knows how long it's been there (20 years!?) so no idea of condition or even whether it's Pre production (he owned DCA (David Carter Associates) so might well of had a development one, I'll try and find out! I believe he also has a pair of Gale speakers but have no idea which ones, be interesting to find out what amp he has.

My electronics engineer is back over from the states in the next month so I'll try and hook up with him (hopefully with the turntable) and take a look at what might be a relatively simple fix or a complete redesign.

[Howie]

Hi All,

As mine is probably the most recent one which has failed (at least on this forum), I think this the ideas presented are a very sound approach.

Right now mine is at an electronics specialist with Naim audio training who has fixed (according to a well known dealer here) some fairly sophisticated electronics for him. If he cannot fix then nothing lost (except my hard earned cash). If he fixes, then I will get a full run down on what he found, fixed, any diagrams he created, scope checks etc in the process.

As per my other thread "Help! My GT2101 won't spin", I have already started down the line of looking at potential replacement bits. Come to the conclusion that its unlikely the motor itself is going to have a problem. Given its got the magnetic suspension thing going on, and the 600 times per second sampling with the glass speed disk ... I think we need to try to keep all that stuff original. IE there's quite a few sources out there who push both ESC and BLDC motor as a combination deal. But often the sampling rate is low (eg once per second) and the torque, rpm sensitivity and size of the motor is wrong. So its all in the ESC working with the strobe pickup. And there's heaps of ESC's which have various design criteria's but very hard to figure out which one might possibly work.

However, seems like a bunch from the RC hobbyist arena, are a potential source of "guru's" who could assist - designing their own ESC's to work with all sorts of sampling rates and BLDC motors. Also, Mark Kelly who is mentioned on various diyaudio threads when it comes to ESC ... For example this thread ... http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/212688-linn-lingo-vs-dr-fuss-square-wave-vs-sine-wave-oscillator-motor-control-4.html 

I had also thought about heading out to either the university or the Inst Technology here in Brisbane Aust to try to talk to students and/or teachers re getting someone to reverse engineer / diagram it all. Quite willing to do this when my ESC and motor come back from repair (fixed or still broken).

So quite happy for anyone else to get their Gt2101's off to their Uni's etc to potentially get reverse engineered, and/or contact people stateside. Might get different answers (!)

In the meantime I will ...

1. Wait for my ESC / motor combo to come back from repairs.

2. Fixed or not, get all the info I can from the repairer about what he figured out/diagrammed/found

3. Fixed or not, approach the uni/inst Tech and see if I can get it diagrammed and list of all cct components

4. Try and get onto some RC hobbyists to discuss ESC's

Cheers

[John Mayberry]

Why don’t we wait for your report and regroup with a plan?

 

Thanks,

 

John

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[John Mayberry]

I’d would certainly willing to contribute to the cost.   Do we have a volunteer to head the effort?

 

Thanks,

 

John

 

 

From: gale-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:gale-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of SimonY
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 10:49 PM
To: gale-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Attention Turntable Owners

 

Thank you John for the thoughts. I also think that the first step is to get a schematic for the motor and controller. My suggestion would be to find and commission an electronics under grauduate to reverse engineer the electronics and develop a schematic: I am told this would be about a weeks work. If the turntable owners were interested in finding and contributing to this effort I believe many of us would have our turntable up and running in no time. With labor rates being cheaper in the USA I would also suggest that an owner over then supplies the turntable:

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[John]

Add me to the effort johnsha...@yahoo.com

Sent from my iPhone

[nige999]

Add me to the list please.

[Howie]

Noticed on the sister site galeaudio.com that a John Shaffer DDS said back in April that his stopped working and could put it up for re-engineering ...

"I have one and for some reason it topped working about a year ago. I would put mine up for somebody to re engineer it. If any body know of someone who has taken one apart i would love to talk to them. I tried to take apart the motor but stopped, I was getting into areas which I knew nothing about. Thanks

Reply"

[John Shaffer]

Im in john shaffer

[domenikus...@gmail.com]

As I told you by email, I'll receive the turntable very soon. It has electronic problems, but I'll also receive some (new ?...) original electronic parts to fix it. I'll tell you very soon.

On Thursday, August 23, 2012 9:59:56 PM UTC+2, John Mayberry wrote:

[Howie]

Hi All,

ESC and motor/sensor is back from 10 weeks at repairer. It's unrepairable due lack of spec sheets and availability of parts. So, I have made contact with University Electrical Engineering Robotics undergrads and awaiting reply re taking the unit to them. Contact there has already come to same conclusion as above and said provided they can get the specs on the motor, then designing an open-loop circuit to control the motor speed and then feed in the optical sensors inputs is the go.

Does anyone have the Inland (?) model number or better still spec sheet for the motor?

cheers.

[Howie]

Hi advitalis,

Any news on trying those NOS electronic parts to get your motor working?

[SimonY]

Howiem there are no spec sheets. Your UEER undergrads would be ideal people to create a electronics diagram I would have thought?

Simon

[John Mayberry]

About 85% confident on these claims…

 

The company has gone through a number of owners but I think is now a division of Moog in North Carolina.

 

http://www.moog.com/contact-us/locations/americas/moog-components-group-murphy-operations-murphy-nc-usa/

 

 

If you check their brushless DC motor with an external HP encoder it may be possible to find something similar…  perhaps more accurate.

 

http://www.moog.com/products/motors-servomotors/brushless-motors/

 

 

John

 

 

 

From: gale-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:gale-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of SimonY
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 1:40 PM
To: gale-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Attention Turntable Owners

 

Howiem there are no spec sheets. Your UEER undergrads would be ideal people to create a electronics diagram I would have thought?

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[John Mayberry]

There is an off the shelf shaft controller that is apparently compatible with the Moog motors…

 

Don’t know costs… from Germany.

 

http://www.heidenhain.de/de_EN/products-and-applications/

 

John

 

 

 

[Howie]

Met with Uni guys. They are just finishing their thesis' off and will then start diagramming in early December. I took ESC and motor along and they were quite interested in doing the job. Earlier emails from them had hinted at maybe just tweaking COTS ESC's to suit, but at the meeting on Tuesday they explained they have to create schematics to understand how it works first as a means to either (a) find new replacement MOSFETs etc to put into the circuits; or (b) recommend they way forward/rebuild with new ESC or whatever??? etc. So will meet up again after they finish their studies for the year. 

[Toby (Idiosyncratic)]

Sounds like you've found the right people Howie, I can get my engineer to do so much free of charge but normally its a discounted £40.00/hr so you can spend a lot quickly.

However the circuit should be simple enough for them to repair/reengineer, mosfets can be replaced even if the original part is obsolete its normally possible to use newer stuff and adjust the circuit for the higher switching speeds. Even the EPROMs if gone can be sorted, you may get the odd physical mods with a few component additions/removals and perhaps a few jumpers for tracks. Lets hope this is the case and it can be kept as original as possible, unless that is you aren't fussed with a complete change to a new design?

[Howie]

ESC and motor goes to the Uni guys tomorrow. Will keep everyone posted. It will be interesting to compare how John and Simon go and compare to the Uni guys.

[Howie]

Dropped ESC and motor today to Uni guys. They are starting tomorrow. Few comments from that meeting ...

1. One of the guys is travelling to Seattle in a week or so time. John et al ... are you guys with Gale TT's which work anywhere near there? Or do you know of anyone from the forum up there with TT?  (longshot but thought I would ask anyway).

2. Has anyone with working Gale TT ever gotten voltage readings, or better still Oscilloscope readings, off a working one? Or know of someone with that knowledge?

[John Mayberry]

Closet I know is San Francisco area…

 

Should have the readings in around a month.

 

John

 

From: gale-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:gale-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Howie
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 4:30 AM
To: gale-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Attention Turntable Owners

 

Dropped ESC and motor today to Uni guys. They are starting tomorrow. Few comments from that meeting ...

1. One of the guys is travelling to Seattle in a week or so time. John et al ... are you guys with Gale TT's which work anywhere near there? Or do you know of anyone from the forum up there with TT?  (longshot but thought I would ask anyway).

2. Has anyone with working Gale TT ever gotten voltage readings, or better still Oscilloscope readings, off a working one? Or know of someone with that knowledge?

 

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[Howie]

Ok, first thing the Uni guys have found is ... mine has a failed/broken TIS93 - PNP General Purpose Amplifier. It is the black bit in this photo of the circuit board in the motor which clearly shows the edge is chipped off. If anyone has had one fail, where'd they get the part from and who'd they get to fix it? (yeah I know ... it's a long shot for such a rare thing).

https://picasaweb.google.com/sm1thst3r/GaleGT2101Repair?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCJ7uzLCHv_qJeA&feat=directlink

[Howie]

Sorry, should also have asked, for those with broken Gale TT's, has anyone checked this component and maybe seen different part in there or solder marks indicating a repair?

[Howie]

Thanks John, I have let the guy know about San Francisco in case his visit isnt just Seattle (or if he want a detour :)

[Pete Wilson]

Easy enough - it's a general purpose transistor. Available probably from Mouser and Digikey.

Ah - here we go:

Unavailable from Mouser.

http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?x=18&y=13&lang=en&site=us&KeyWords=tis93

Need to call for pricing. It's obsolete. Probably any equivalent device will do fine.

-- P

[Jack Ward]

Try this:
http://www.arrow.com/item/detail/fairchild-semiconductor/tis93-j35z

-

[Jack Ward]

and this:

http://www.4starelectronics.com/part_detail/MPS6534FAIRCHILD.html

[nige999]

Sorry folks - replied to the group digest email instead of posting here.

My message was:

Great news !

For obsolete, probably UK sourced components, you might want to try Radiospares. Company has been going for many years and they used to be very good, don't know what they are like now.

One day my turntable might turn again !

[Howie]

Ummm, there's a few threads going on about our TT and the schematic etc ... I might start posting all my stuff in this one thread from now on so we've got a one stop thread for info. Let me know John if you want stuff split into various threads for some reason. :)

John, you asked about the din pinouts ...

The uni guys came through on the din plug pinouts .... see photo link below showing what does what. In that photo it also shows three more red highlights (marked 7,8 and 9) which are important for my particular unit as this is the 3 pins for the TIS93/91 general purpose amplifier which has blown up on that motor PCB.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/U_GnKDk_tSUVMp38-UbptFQI5d1JHh2DZSPcXYC10D4?feat=directlink

The photo of the top of that board which shows the blown TIS is 

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/jv0sftBRF6kLLN1h-QN1q1QI5d1JHh2DZSPcXYC10D4?feat=directlink

In that photo you can see the thing has cracked open. Its the black "bit" with the green dot on it and a 45 degree angle face where it has shattered. 

[Howie]

Thanks Nige999!!!

[timhum]

TIS 93 available here  http://synthrestore.co.uk/products.htm

[Howie]

Update for today from Uni guys.

"Replaced the damaged tis91( sorry typo in prev email) with another transistor. The transistor is used to generate a -10v supply used for two chips (mc3403 and lm339) both are active production, so no issues finding replacements. The 339 appears to be broken, so will order a replacement over the weekend.

My best guess how the tis91 could have failed:

1/ was substandard, and eventually overheated and failed

2/ was underspecified, overheated enough that it failed.

3/ something connected to it failed, causing it to overheat and fail.

In all cases the damage is consistant with a transistor overheating and exploding"

[SimonY]

Hello Howie, the TIS91 blew on my motor as well. It went pop and bits of it fell off !! I got a friend to replace it however as he said it may not work due to the cause been else where. He was right the replacement of the TIS91 did not solve the problem. It went for nothing happening to some movement of the motor but not a proper full turn.

There is one other TIS91 used in the Controller which I think is situated on the board with the magnet.

 

I am impress they way you have an understanding of the causes.

[Howie]

Hi Simon, I'd love to take credit for the description of the possible causes, but alas my electrical skills are limited. That bit was in italics and was what one of my new Elec Engineering friends (Nathan) said. So onto an update from this weekends and todays work .... quite exciting isn't it .....

"I got the replacement parts for the chips mc3403 and lm339. $3.50 for both. Will swap them tomorrow.

I have a suspicion that the damage is fairly new as there was no way you could have seen a speed on the controller with the damage I observed.
In any case,  confirmed the encoder is working well, so with the replacement of the two chips (going to replace both to be sure), the motor should be functional.
Will move onto the controller this week."

Something to look forward to is when I dropped it off to the guys, they mentioned they had some software in which they were going to produce the schematics, and that using it they could also simulate it running. IE help figure out what V and A and signals might be required based on the parts entered into the software. Needless to say, I can't wait to see that!

[John Mayberry]

Sounds exciting.

 

I’ll sit tight, especially since my solid state hard drive failed over the weekend…  All backed up but it’ll take awhile.

 

John

 

From: gale-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:gale-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Howie
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 11:39 PM
To: gale-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Attention Turntable Owners

 

Hi Simon, I'd love to take credit for the description of the possible causes, but alas my electrical skills are limited. That bit was in italics and was what one of my new Elec Engineering friends (Nathan) said. So onto an update from this weekends and todays work .... quite exciting isn't it .....

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[Howie]

Good news and bad news! (Sorry for the long post here people)

Well the guys have got the inland motor and litton encoder working! Bad news though ... the spindle has a wobble. Video is the third file in the link below.

https://picasaweb.google.com/sm1thst3r/GaleGT2101Repair?authuser=0&feat=directlink

So the thing has been dropped in its life that's for sure. We ran it at 0.2A and 1.2V just to watch it rotate .... very very silently BTW! Good news ... they have a workshop, so they are going to disassemble the motor and try to fix the wobble/bent shaft. If this destroys the motor in the process then I am up for new motor, but the wobble makes the motor useless right now anyway. The "platter" which sits on the turned aluminium spindle would wobble all over the place being hard for the arm to track as well as looking plain broken.

Inland Motor + its circuit board + Litton encoder.

         This operates at +15V whereas the led/power tower operates at -15V. Please don't start blasting your broken TT's with + or - 15V yet though, as the guys are doing schematics for this and I may have misunderstood them. The 'bits' on the motors pcb take power supplied by the led/power tower and simply convert whatever V is supplied into smooth rotary motion of the BLDC motor with the rotation speed governed by how much V is fed into it. The circuits do all the 'stepping' of the signal to the motor windings to result in rotation. The encoder and its disc are operating well (saw the signal coming through on the CRO hooked up to it). The guys seemed quite impressed at the elegance of this analogue control to provide a feedback to the led/power tower to sync up to. IE on the CRO if the motor is rotating slowly, the 'pulses' of the sensor through the glass perforated timing disc in the motor are longer. And shorter if faster. As the DC 'pulse' being sent also has a timing component, it looks like the analogue signal from the encoder led/power tower does some trickery to match the timings and hence control speed. Again I will get a better and more complete report for all this from the guru's (as this is my interpretation of what they have shown me at this stage). Summarising the motor + it's PCB and the encoder ... Good news: these have readily available bits in today's market to fix. It operates at +15V which is more normal in today's electronics. Good news: The motor and the encoder signals can be used with a modern ESC without much of a problem (!). 

LED + power + synch tower.

          This seems to operate at -15V which I am told is unusual in today's circuits but was common back in the 70's especially in the computer industry. Apparently the V rise time (?) may be quicker coming up from -V than from +V. Bad news: the 'bits' in the tower are much harder to read and source. Some 'bits' don't have any markings either. The toroid in mine has the covering just about falling off - it crumbles. Apart from the above motor disassembly, the power tower is next to dissect as they now know the V etc and how the motor and encoder work and what CRO signals they need and generate. This will be after Christmas. Summarising the LED power + synch tower .... doesnt have readily available bits. Bad bews: if a bit is found and replaced others in the chain may also be prone to failure given something has already died and sent incorrect power around my kit (the blown transistor and other bits mentioned in earlier posts). 

          But the guys are going to go through it and hunt for bits and recommend fix if possible, or otherwise..... as we did discuss replacing the 'guts' of the tower with a new modern ESC. They believe it can be made to operate using the original LED, spin for rpm red perspex top, and earth touch to spin the platter too in just a week or two! To me, that's kind of attractive. Having said that, they still want to try to get it going with replacement bits. (bless 'em).

Diagrams schematics

          These will be forthcoming when they put the handwritten stuff into the pc. The motor/encoder pcb etc will be far more accurate due it's working!! The led power synch controller less so, though they say they will be able to produce V readouts for each of the contacts on the flexible strip connecting each board. This will enable others to take to repairer to use to quickly figure out which board is broken. And then its in your hand as to hunt bit's or try components where there is no current matching bits, and then hope it lasts a while longer without other bits failing, or just replace with new ESC.

So might not have any updates until New Year. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all until then.

[Jack Ward]

Thanks for the report Howie. This is fascinating to me. I only saw and listened to this turntable a couple of times back in the 70's. First was exposed to one at CES in Chicago, many years ago.

Jack

--

[Howie]

Toby, sorry I was just reading through thread and noticed I never replied to your question re what's actually wrong with my turntable. The platter will not start rotation when you touch the (earthing) button on the top of the red perspex contoller tower like it's supposed to. The red led readout works ... you can press the 33.3 button and it displays that on the led, or you can turn the red perspex top and adjust all the way from 0.00 to 99.9 ... but when you press the 'go - start the platter turning' button ... no rotation and the led rpm readout drops to 0.00.

Now question for you ... you were going to borrow your great uncles 2101 ... did you ever do that? It would help greatly if V and A readings can be taken at various spots. Don't touch it if you are unsure of damaging it. But if you are ok with taking some readings, I will let the uni guys know and I am sure they will send details of which bits to measure. 

[nige999]

Exactly the same fault that mine has !

[Toby (Idiosyncratic)]

Hi Howie,

Sorry for my slow reply! I've been trying to set up a meet with my great uncle through one of his sons but the family has been suffering health issues which has hindered my meeting with them all. I was hoping to chat with uncle David and get some info on the turntable and his dealings with Ira Gale.
You've prompted me to make contact again and see how things are progressing so hopefully I can ask to borrow the turntable for measurements. I imagine its not been used for years, allegedly boxed away in the loft along with speakers (possibly Gales), would be exciting to see what's there!
I'll let you know how I get on, looks like the turntable repair is moving positively though. I don't think there was much wrong with the original design so to be able to repair opposed to redesign seems a better option. Generally electronics last well for decades but capacitors do dry out and this is what causes problems, sorting out the blown components and re-capping the circuits would return everything to original working order.
By the way, where are you based?

[Howie]

Dropped off the chassis today as we felt that the motor might be wobbling due to lack of weight of the platter on top. Guys have gotten even further than last visit. In this video link below, you can see the motor in the chassis with platter running from a lab power supply (set to 1.3V which is about 33rpm). We pan to the CRO which shows the short 'pulse' coming from the encoder. It is the width of these pulses which are eventually matched in the main tower unit of the Gale with the voltage being supplied which controls the speed. Again, better explanation will eventually come from schematics etc. And finally, we pan to show the trial/mock-up bits speed controller/power supply which is being used to figure out the way the whole thing works. Enjoy ...

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/wSAuWkJ1WFAJ4Txc5_qbHtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

BTW, the wobble is gone. We got down horizontally and watched the platter spin and it looks nice and straight.

[Howie]

Sorry everyone, that link appears to be a static shot. If you go to the whole folder link below, and then click on the fourth item you should see the video.

https://picasaweb.google.com/sm1thst3r/GaleGT2101Repair?authuser=0&feat=directlink

Oh, and Toby, we probably won't need the measurements from your Uncles if you can't get it. How it works and what V etc it needs are pretty much sorted.

[Toby (Idiosyncratic)]

Hi Howie,

Ok, I'm still determined to meet uncle and have the turntable for a play/listen, I'd like to own it and keep it in the family as a piece of our family history. It all depends on what ideas my uncles sons have for it.
BTW, off topic but noticed in your photos you have a Nissan Skyline!? Nice car, they nip along well :-D I've just bought a brand new BMW F10 M5, just an incredible machine with 560bhp! ;-)

[Carl Smith]

Very nice machine you have there Toby. I luv Beemers. There's a new 135i M which parks just near me where I park in town at work. 

I sold the Skyline but I still miss it. It was only putting out 290kw at the wheels (about 390hp) which was fun ... so I can't imagine 560hp! Was a nice track day car but very hard ride on the road despite adjustable nismo coils. 

Re the turntable, it's better to be played and enjoyed (and in the family) so good luck with uncle. Let us know what arm and cartridge it has if you do get a listen. I've just refurbished my old sme 3009 II removable headshell which I bought on a Fons CQ30 in 1979. It's fitted with a shure V15 iii though I reckon it might need a new stylus about now. It's all going on the Gale TT when it finally runs.

[Toby (Idiosyncratic)]

Hi Howie,

I've replied to you directly so we don't take things off topic!

[Pete Wilson]

Just to keep things OFF topic, I bought a SAAB 9-5 last year (not my first SAAB). Only 300HP, but very very nice.

Of course, the company went out of business six months later :-)

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[Toby Carter]

Ahhh!! Perhaps we need a car part to the Gale Audio forum? Given that we all appreciate good engineering then surely cars go hand in hand with Hi-Fi?

Sent from my iPhone 4

Tel  Toby - 07767 205205

[nige999]

No we don't thanks.

There are plenty of forums to brag up german motors.

[Toby Carter]

Is that your view Nige? Or that of the forum. It's not about 'bragging' just a general discussion sub forum, it keeps everything alive and I imagine we all have other interests besides Gale including other Hi-Fi brands which is nice to hear people's views on....

When I moderated the BMW MTorque forum we had sub sections for other car brands, motorbikes and Hi-Fi etc.

BTW good cars Pete, shame Saab sadly went down, they were the original big pushes of turbo technology, I've never owned one, always French (Peugeot) and German (BMW) generally.

Sent from my iPhone 4

Tel  Toby - 07767 205205

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/gale-audio/-/GxSEzILNUCYJ.

[Howie]

Happy New Year everyone!

Toby and John (but really anyone who can help with GT2101) ... how are you guys going getting GT2101's open and maybe helping out. Links below are for pinouts for the flex pcb strip and secondly the board components. 

Firstly the pinouts on each board in the controller (red perspex top power toroid tower) which have the flexible pcb connected. Some are not yet figured out, so if you could assist that would be great. If not, that's ok too but Nathan at uni has to get his study/uni timetables together and can't work on it for a little bit. You, or anyone else with a GT2101 might be able to help here.

The second link is the component lists for the boards.

NOTE!!! they are not yet the final copies (ie not quality checked/finalised), so use with caution if you have to use them now. But it shows great start.

Flex pcb pinout pins on each board in control tower .....

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6Hu89oDUW-NQTlHMkpsSTl0UG8/edit

Components in control tower ....

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6Hu89oDUW-NaHpOcTcxb0MtQ3c/edit

If you cant get to these documents it will be because I havent shared them properly in Google Drive. Let me know and I will fix it up.

Howard

[John Mayberry]

Spectacular.

 

Thanks,

 

John

 

From: gale-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:gale-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Howie
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 4:16 AM
To: gale-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Attention Turntable Owners

 

Happy New Year everyone!

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[Howie]

Update ... the new pcb's are still on order from the supplier, but some of the new modern ESC bits and pieces have arrived, including the digital pot (to replace the original resistance wire 10 turn pot), new earthing switch, and programmable controller, and we are ready to start putting the new speed control circuits together as soon as those pcb's arrive. This will mean the entire motor and encoder assembly hanging under the platter will be original (as we have fixed the various problems in that bit of kit). But the guts of the speed control/power tower will be of all new bits even though the operation will be as per the original operation with one exception ... we are going to program the red perspex top to default to 33.3rpm if the speed lock button is pressed (same as original operation), but when pressed and operating at 33.3 a clockwise turn of the perspex will automatically switch to a speed locked 45rpm, and another flick clockwise will lock to 78rpm, and vice versa anti-clockwise down 78 - 45 - 33.3. When the speed lock button isnt pressed the rotation of the perspex will operate as it did originally and move at whatever speed you 'dial in'.

However, in the meantime, one of the guys found an interesting flaw in the flexible 'strap' which joins the various original Gale boards in the tower together. When touched (EG by a multimeter) it reads fine ... ie circuit made, but readings on the various boards were flakey. Turns out there is a very, very fine delamination and tear in the copper circuit foil which is laminated between two pieces of whatever the clear strap material is made from. IE if you carefully look at it and touch the edges almost like trying to peel the back tape off a dymo label maker sticky label (hope you know what i mean here), you can see one leg of the copper circuit stays stuck to the one side of the material which makes up one side of the connecting strap, and the other side of the copper leg stays stuck to the opposite side of the connecting strap. So he's made up a flex computer cable strap with the appropriate bits bared and then connected to the orig gale boards and .... hey presto .... first the good news .... it works ... dial speed on the led, touch the top to rotate, etc! Now the bad news  .... it is really jerky rotation of the platter. The cro shows the signal is being turned on and off repeatedly by something and we don't know what. We await the return of one of the guys in the Uni team who knows a bit more about analogue circuits as he may be able to put some light on which bit is still broken. But boy are we close.

So this puts me in a quandry ... if we do get the original control tower working do I run the faster sampling new and easily replaceable modern stuff in the controller (although the motor and encoder are still original/old but working) ... and keep the original and now working parts as backup. Or vice versa?

Howard

[John Mayberry]

Incredible news.   Can I post your progress up?

 

John

 

From: gale-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:gale-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Howie
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:31 AM
To: gale-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Attention Turntable Owners

 

Update ... the new pcb's are still on order from the supplier, but some of the new modern ESC bits and pieces have arrived, including the digital pot (to replace the original resistance wire 10 turn pot), new earthing switch, and programmable controller, and we are ready to start putting the new speed control circuits together as soon as those pcb's arrive. This will mean the entire motor and encoder assembly hanging under the platter will be original (as we have fixed the various problems in that bit of kit). But the guts of the speed control/power tower will be of all new bits even though the operation will be as per the original operation with one exception ... we are going to program the red perspex top to default to 33.3rpm if the speed lock button is pressed (same as original operation), but when pressed and operating at 33.3 a clockwise turn of the perspex will automatically switch to a speed locked 45rpm, and another flick clockwise will lock to 78rpm, and vice versa anti-clockwise down 78 - 45 - 33.3. When the speed lock button isnt pressed the rotation of the perspex will operate as it did originally and move at whatever speed you 'dial in'.

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[Howie]

Absolutely... post it up. 

[Howie]

Hello everyone. Sorry for the long break in posting status. Both the Uni guys and I have been busy with everyday issues and haven't gotten back to focusing on the GT2101. Them with back to Uni/study work and me with a big 'restructure' going on at work (I might have plenty of time (redundancy) to muck around with the turntable shortly! :)   So hopefully over the next month there will be more progress as we are close. One of the analogue circuitry specialists at Uni is about to look into why the full original innards circuitry is fixed to the point of fully working except the platter isnt holding steady speed, but is instead 'surging'. Once that is solved (if it can be) then it is back to original working order. The digital guys are just waiting for time from study to get all the ESC bits together and assemble/program it all to drive the motor assembly. Will keep you posted. 

[Howie]

Help ... we are having trouble sourcing 4 pieces of AVX or ELCO 00 8129 009 605 003 connectors at a reasonable price. The best we've found so far is http://www.masterelectronics.com/products/008129009605003

but while the connectors are reasonable on that site (~$15 each) they want to charge $50 UPS postage which brings it up over $100. While thats not much given the historic significance of the GT2101, but can anyone help with a cheaper source.

And yes, we are still progressing with the repair ... slowly. Another cct board was ordered to be made up which arrived and was faulty and so had to be made up a second time. The analogue original bits spins the TT but still wont hold speed. Sigh ... no idea why not. The alternate electronics with modern ESC bits is looking more promising/is ahead at the moment. But anyway ... can anyone help with source for the connectors at a reasonable cost incl shipping?

[John Mayberry]

You can always trans-ship through me.

 

John

 

 

From: gale-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:gale-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Howie
Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 9:30 AM
To: gale-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Attention Turntable Owners

 

Help ... we are having trouble sourcing 4 pieces of AVX or ELCO 00 8129 009 605 003 connectors at a reasonable price. The best we've found so far is http://www.masterelectronics.com/products/008129009605003

but while the connectors are reasonable on that site (~$15 each) they want to charge $50 UPS postage which brings it up over $100. While thats not much given the historic significance of the GT2101, but can anyone help with a cheaper source.

And yes, we are still progressing with the repair ... slowly. Another cct board was ordered to be made up which arrived and was faulty and so had to be made up a second time. The analogue original bits spins the TT but still wont hold speed. Sigh ... no idea why not. The alternate electronics with modern ESC bits is looking more promising/is ahead at the moment. But anyway ... can anyone help with source for the connectors at a reasonable cost incl shipping?

--

[CHRISTOPHER SCHULZE]

Hi Howie,

 

I am NOT a turntable owner, but read your progress with interest.  I imagine that the shipping is high since it is international.  I priced shipping to my US address, and it's $6.95.  If you would provide an address, I wil  gladly l purchase the connectors and then send them to you - in the interest of the project.

Chris S

---

From: Howie <sm1t...@gmail.com>
To: gale-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, May 4, 2013 11:30:11 AM

Subject: Re: Attention Turntable Owners

Help ... we are having trouble sourcing 4 pieces of AVX or ELCO 00 8129 009 605 003 connectors at a reasonable price. The best we've found so far is http://www.masterelectronics.com/products/008129009605003

but while the connectors are reasonable on that site (~$15 each) they want to charge $50 UPS postage which brings it up over $100. While thats not much given the historic significance of the GT2101, but can anyone help with a cheaper source.

And yes, we are still progressing with the repair ... slowly. Another cct board was ordered to be made up which arrived and was faulty and so had to be made up a second time. The analogue original bits spins the TT but still wont hold speed. Sigh ... no idea why not. The alternate electronics with modern ESC bits is looking more promising/is ahead at the moment. But anyway ... can anyone help with source for the connectors at a reasonable cost incl shipping?

--

[Howie]

Thanks Chris and John, I'll get onto the other guys tomorrow and just check they havent done some deal over the weekend which I dont know about. If not then I will certainly like to take one of you up on that. Will hear from me tomorrow.

[Howie]

Thanks to John and Chris for the offers of on-forwarding, but it's not going to be needed. One of the guys has figured out how to replace and rewire with another connector lying around. That saves a bit of a hassle. 

Meantime here's the new PCB for modern ESC bits (as the analogue/old bits are still proving to be problematic).

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/unGDQ7AxMuJNj2LVtOCAKNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

and the new second pcb ...

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/vUnBEWr3NW2DXR7icYO7XNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

Still some more bits to arrive and then programmed for rotation. Looks like we'll currently get all the new bits working sooner than the old bits. 

[Jack Ward]

Beautiful work, my compliments to the Chefs.

Jack

[Howie]

Sorry everyone ... ages since posting progress. I was retrenched so have been spending the last 3 months searching for work and doing some share trading to keep the income coming in. While I have been free'd up somewhat to do stuff on the turntable, the Uni guys have had their problems too. All but one guy graduated and got jobs, and the remaining guy is doing his Masters so has continued on. But he has had his thesis and exams and whatever, so he has only been able to spend time when it permits. 

But what a fantastic job he has done! ....... All the new bits (see previous postings) have been built into the old power/speed control tower, programmed and now operate perfectly! 

I brought it home about a week and a half ago and have been spinning it up and checking everything is working fine. It still uses the inputs from the motors sensor and glass timing disk etc to check speeds etc, then sends the appropriate signals to the motor to operate at the correct speed. IE the motor is original (apart from replaced transistors which were proven to be faulty/out of spec). Everything in the power/speed control tower is new.

The old bits are still being looked at by Nathan at Uni just in case he can figure which bit isn't working. He was able to get the original bits to the point of working correctly but with one exception ... it would spin up for a half rotation then coast, then spin up, then coast, etc. There were no responses from Fairchild or Motorola re the old chips spec-sheets or equivalents so he is unsure which one on circuit board two or three is responsible for the problem. It could take a long time to figure out which bit is busted in the old circuitry. It's already been to 2 repairers for 6 months prior to getting it to the Uni guys who have had it for the past 10 months so I figured the new working stuff is at least working and I can enjoy the turntable! I shall take a video and post it as soon as possible.

So ... Nathan is still having a look at the old broken original bits for a month or so. Then I will head over for the final "brain-dump" session to obtain all info to add to the parts lists etc which I note John has added to the Gale GT2101 pages already. I will gather as much stuff as possible to assist others in potentially repairing the turntable. 

Cheers, Howard

[John Mayberry]

Fantastic news.

 

It would be nice to put a process together to get the old tables all sorted.   At some point they’re all going to need “the treatment”.

 

Thanks again,

 

John

 

From: gale-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:gale-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Howie
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 10:23 PM
To: gale-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Attention Turntable Owners

 

Sorry everyone ... ages since posting progress. I was retrenched so have been spending the last 3 months searching for work and doing some share trading to keep the income coming in. While I have been free'd up somewhat to do stuff on the turntable, the Uni guys have had their problems too. All but one guy graduated and got jobs, and the remaining guy is doing his Masters so has continued on. But he has had his thesis and exams and whatever, so he has only been able to spend time when it permits. 

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[Smith McDougall Family]

I agree - a mighty achievement.

As far as I am aware, yours is the only non-functional Gale ttable that has been successfully made viable. Maybe Elton had his repaired - but we never heard about it!

Perseverance beats brilliance every time!

[Howie]

Thanks guys.

I have loaded two video's onto youtube.

The first just runs through the new speed control functionality which is slightly better than the original in my opinion as when speed locked to 33.3 rpm you can rotate the red perspex clockwise to set it to 45 rpm and then 78 rpm. Counterclockwise takes it back down again. I don't think the original had this functionality.

http://youtu.be/KKHxsc86dTc

(If these links don't work I'm sure you will let me know and I'll try again to get the right ones).

The second is the turntable and system playing some tunes ... it's very mesmerising sitting there in the listening position and watching it go round! :)

http://youtu.be/tESodEncMj0

Should be getting back out to the Uni sometime next week to continue with Nathan and tackle the last remaining problems with the original components of the control tower, and also to get all other relevant details on the work so far. 

Cheers for now.

Howard

[nige999]

Howie

That is an awesome achievement.

I hope you will share the techie details with us other turntable owners so we can get them working again.

Regards - Nigel (non functioning turntable owner)

[Sean Gibbins]

No Gale turntable here sadly, but I have been watching the progress of this thread with interest all the same and would love to see a write-up with pictures and videos at the conclusion.

Good job Howie!

Sean

--

[John Mayberry]

Spectacular.   If you don’t mind, I’ll add the links to the site over the weekend.

 

John

 

From: gale-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:gale-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Howie
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 12:52 AM
To: gale-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Attention Turntable Owners

 

Thanks guys.

--

[TOBY CARTER]

I've had a look at your videos Howie....the turntable looks and works fantastically...jolly fine job there! What a piece of beauty still all these years on... Now to find myself one.......oh and someone to recone my Mission 765i's after the A1 got cranked too much! Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

---

From: Howie <sm1t...@gmail.com>;

To: <gale-...@googlegroups.com>;
Subject: Re: Attention Turntable Owners

Sent: Fri, Oct 11, 2013 7:51:46 AM

--

[al]

howie,

hope the gale is still working nicely. I agree with the 'stupendous achievement' comment!

I would (and I suspect a few others here too) would be very interested and in fact delighted if you guys fancied making a few motor controllers... and I am sure we could stump up to make it worth your while. Mine works intermittently (it will cut out after a variable amount of time) but I suspect it's only a matter of time before something goes pop...

alex

On Thursday, 23 August 2012 20:59:56 UTC+1, John Mayberry wrote:

I’ve been giving it some thought lately and it appears that many of the tables have failed from the same cause.

 

My suggestion is communally work together, find the best resources to address this issue, and sort it out.

 

Clearly the efforts involves someone getting into the units, figuring out the issues and coming up with a long term fix.

 

 

To that end I would suggest the following:

 

1.      Find someone in the group willing to take the task on.

2.      Gather together any and all documentation we can.

3.      Find a servo motor and control specialist and approach him/her with prospect of multiple repairs.

4.      Understand the issue, fix the first table.

5.      Schedule the rest of the repairs sequentially.

6.       

 

Thoughts?

 

John

 

 

 

 

 

John Mayberry

VP, Engineering
Emmaco, Inc.
626 799 9993

This electronic message transmission contains information from Emmaco, Inc., which may be confidential or privileged. This information is intended for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify us immediately via telephone.

[John Mayberry]

Are the boys ready for some orders yet?

 

Looking forward to it,

 

John

 

From: gale-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:gale-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of al
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 12:19 PM
To: gale-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Attention Turntable Owners

 

howie,