Victor J28 hose connections.

[Nauris]

Hi all,

after people said not to get AGA, but Victor J28 my plan to start brazing has stuck for a year.
I did got the J28, but got stuck with hose connectors, no one has the right ones in Latvia.
I have been mistaken twice by ordering incorrect connectors from rapidwelding.
First I ordered 3/8'', because Victor website says the connections are 3/8'', but those are way too big.
So now I tried 1/4'', smaller, but still too big.

Could anyone actually using J28 give me a link from where I can order the right connectors?
That would be much appreciated.

Nauris 

[M-gineering]

'What thread is this' will be a recurring problem if you want to mess
with framebuilding as there are numerous threadstandards around. No good
asking, find out for yourself (only last week I had a customer who
couldn't fit a BSC bracket in a BSC frame: the Tange BB was factory
labeled 1.37x24, but a quick check showed it to be Italian! ;))


So get yourself a pair of digital calipers, (cheap oned work fine but
use a lot of batteries) a thread pitch gage , and a buch of tables
(machinist handbooks, fastener catalogues, DiN publications or google
for online sources) and measure them yourself. And with torches etc,
always check for LH or RH threads, as they are often used so you can't
swap hoses.

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Marten Gerritsen

Gerritsen & Meijers, Ingenieurs
Framebuilding & Imports

Dorpsstraat 132
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Netherlands

Tel: +31 598 491865


www.m-gineering.nl

[Nauris]

Yes, I am aware of that and I feel comfortable with most threads found on bicycles.
But I can't get my head around this one.
Measuring it, it comes out to be 3/8-24, but when I order them I get this...

[M-gineering]

With pipethreads the size has nothing to do with anything you can
measure. Pipethread sizes are based on the bore of the original tube,
but with better materials since when the standards were drawn up, the
walls have become thinner.

Get out your thread gauge, that 3/8" will probably turn out to be G3/8"
thread: 16.6mm OD, 19 tpi. Not what you wanted, but it sounded close
enough to somebody who just sells stuff, instead of working with it.

I'd just say sodd them, chuck the lot up in the lathe to make it fit and
silver them together (unfair if you haven't got your workshop sorted, I
know ;))




On 3/17/2015 9:33 AM, Nauris wrote:
> <http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CASRTM7UsAEC7Cl.jpg>

[Mark Bulgier]

Nauris wrote:
> I did get the J28, but got stuck with hose connectors, no one has the right ones in Latvia.

> I have been mistaken twice by ordering incorrect connectors from rapidwelding.

 

I’m not really qualified to answer this question – there are people on this list who know much more about threads, safety etc.  I’m self-taught and a bit of a hack, but here’s a suggestion. (What do the gas-welding gurus say to this?)

 

I’d get an “ultra light weight” twin hose from Tinman Tech http://www.tinmantech.com/html/welding_hoses.php#ulw

Nice to have for light-duty welding or brazing like we do on bike frames – I think the light weight and flexibility makes you better at it, and joints come out better with less fatigue at the end of the day.

 

It comes with the correct thread for a small American aircraft-style torch like your Victor.  If the threads at the other end won’t attach to anything you’ve got, just cut the existing fittings off the Tinman hose, and get some European-style hose fittings with a barbed doodad that goes inside the hose and a generic clamp over the outside.  I don’t know if such fittings exist over there, but they must, right?  The Tinman hoses are flexible rubber and so they’ll stretch enough that inch versus metric measurements won’t matter.

 

Usual practice with the ultra light weight hoses is to connect them to a longer section of regular heavy hoses.  You only need a short piece of ultra-light to reduce the weight and stiffness of the hose basically from the floor * to your hand.  So the fittings you would need are hose-to-hose connectors. 

 

*Some people prefer to run the hose overhead so that it comes down to the torch, rather than up from the ground. That minimizes walking on the hose, and dropping hot globs on it, which should make the ultra light hose last longer.  I never did that though, mine was on the floor, and I thought the hoses lasted pretty well anyway.  And that was in a busy production shop with a bunch of workers, where brazing was pretty much non-stop.  If you’re a one-man operation, with a little care your lightweight hoses should last a long time.  Still, with slow shipping from USA, you might want to have a spare hose ready – so you aren’t out of business if your hose becomes unusable somehow.

 

Since the Tinman hoses are 9 feet long (~2.8 m), if I were cutting the end off to attach Euro-style fittings, I’d be tempted to cut it right in half and have two 4.5 ft (~1.4 m) hoses, both with the correct fittings for your Victor torch on one end.    4.5 ft is not ideal, I’d like it to be a little longer, but for most working positions it’ll be long enough that the heavy connector fittings stay on the ground, i.e. you aren’t having to lift that extra weight with your torch hand.  Especially if you braze/weld while sitting, or if your hose comes in overhead and drops down to you, then 4.5 ft should be plenty, and you got two hoses for the price of one.

 

BTW I think it’s really cool that we have a list member from Latvia.  Keep in touch, let us know what you’re working on.

 

Cheers

Mark Bulgier

Seattle

 

[Nauris]

Thanks a lot.
I guess I will go with this,saves me time finding a lightweight hose also, just have to skip some organic beef burgers and craft beer, since the postage is ~100USD. :D

[Jon Norstog]

Yikes!

Nauris, the hoses should fit in a USPS medium flat rate box.  Postage is $61.75.  There are cheaper ways to ship as well.  Do you have a friend in the US who can do the deal for you?

jn

"Thursday"

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[Nauris]

Yes, I was surprised as well, I once got 4 Mavic rims shipped from California to Philadelphia then to Latvia, was a hell lot cheaper, but that was in 2004/2005.
No, unfortunately I don't have a friend there anymore - acted stupid.

I was just thinking about what Marten said about brazing the hose tails to check valves, 'cos I can get those almost the right size.
I guess I could do it with simple plumbing torch and silver.
But then I realized I wouldn't trust myself yet, or anyone else, if that thing blows - no fun.

[Doug Fattic]

Nauris,

The Victor J-28 is an American torch handle and has American size “A” fitting.  Just like you found they are 3/8”-24UNF.  The other common American size is size B.  It has  9/16-18 threads.  We also have a size C and D but don’t use them with anything that makes bicycles.  Many regulators have a size B outlet so somewhere there needs to be a transition.  Usually this is done at the hose with one end having a size A fitting and the other end having a size B.

Conversions can be a little complicated.  If you have a Latvian hose that has a 6mm inside diameter that you are connecting to your J-28 , there is a hose adaptor made by Western Enterprises that has a 1/4” barb that can do this conversion.  Western Enterprises is a company that makes all kinds of fittings for welding and compressed air fittings.  Their part numbers for the 2 pieces you need (one for each hose) is 14-O (that is the letter O and not the number zero and stands for oxygen).  Their part number 14 is the fitting for acetylene or propane.  The European fittings on your hose are cut off and the new pieces with a barb end are shoved into the hose.  They are held in place with a hose clamp (or 2).  However I do not prefer my light torch handle to be attached to a heavy rubber hose.     

In Ukraine I use 2 hoses connected together to make my conversion.  I use an American hose with American fittings on the torch end and a Ukrainian hose with Ukrainian fittings attached to the regulator/tanks.  I cut off the other end of the Ukrainian hose and replaced it with a barbed American fitting.  An American 1/4” barb fits inside a hose with a 6mm ID.  I use 2 hose clamps to keep them firmly attached.

  

Because I like a light hose on the torch end I use a TM Technologies light hose.  It is 9’ long and has an A fitting on both ends.  They include 2 size B conversion fittings with the hose.  This is an American company <https://www.tinmantech.com> but they can be be bought in the UK here:  

<http://www.gpescientific.co.uk/products/tm-technologies/tm-torch-accessories/ultra-light-weight-welding-hose> 

I understand the UK company also sell American fittings although I can’t find them on their website.  

There are 3 reasons I use 2 hoses connected together.  The 1st is that I like more distance for safety and convenience to have my tanks further away from my work station than the 9 foot TM hose is long.  The 2nd reason is that I like to hang my hose from the ceiling so it never touches the ground.  This requires extra length to do this.  And of course the 3rd reason is that the 2nd hose is modified to make the fittings conversion.

Apparently the inside diameter of the TM hose will fit an 1/8” barb.  The ID of the hose is .112” (2.84mm).  A barb fitting that small is rare and difficult to find.

This is what I did in Ukraine.  On the end of the Ukrainian hoses going to the torch, I put a Western Enterprises (WE) barb for 1/4” or 6mm (part # 17)  on both hoses.  Over the barb/hose is a WE part # 7 nut for oxygen and #8 nut for acetylene or propane.  To connect 2 B size hose fittings together I used male to male hose couplers.  WE part #30 or oxygen and #31 for acetylene (or other gases like propane).  The next part is an A to B conversion that comes with the TM light hoses.  It has a female B end that connects to the coupler and a male A end that attaches to the TM hose.  WE makes barbs of different sizes that all fit a B size nut.

The problem with converting a size A to something else is that A size parts are harder to find.  Size B stuff is much more common and therefor cheaper.  It also depends on what size of hose you have in Latvia.  Size A barbs are for smaller hoses only.

Doug Fattic

Niles, Michigan USA

[Nauris]

Thanks a lot for that info Doug.

I don't have anything but the torch with check valves and tips, so I can most likely go with the lightweight hose from torch, and then get the usual hose to regulators.

[Dag]

Nauris,

I have done this route here in Norway,... getting American torches against European regulators is the usual hassle.... Your solution is, as Doug says to get some "A" fitting barbs, and go onto a hose, with a 6mm bore, and then simply use your "national std" against the regulator. (in case you buy a lightweight hose kit from the us, I also have adapters for "B" fittings against the "european regulators. )   I have plenty of these western Entreprise nuts, and barbs, so give me your home adress, and i will drop you a pair of  "A" fittings in the post.

Regards Dag 

Norway

[Nauris]

Thanks to Dag the problem is solved.

[Steven Shand]

That's because Dag is 'the man'!

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 11:44 AM, Nauris <nauris....@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks to Dag the problem is solved.

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[capnahab]

Does anyone know of a supplier for the western enterprise firings in Europe ( or better the UK ) ?
Cheers
Nick