Omnipotence vs. Omniscience in the context of UDA

[freqflyer07281972]

Dear Bruno and other loyal followers of the list,

I had a thought tonight -- half baked and somewhat vague, but nevertheless I thought relevant to your discussions here...

Is it not true, on the basis of what you laid out in Sane2004, that there is a necessarily inverse relationship between omnipotence and omniscience? For consider, the UDA, whatever it may be, has the infinite power to continue to crank out the algorithim. We, as admittedly self-consistent and yet ignorant of the fact of our self-consistency, have the ability to be omniscient (in the sense that we know the math that leads to our lack of omniscience and yet implies a universal unfolding of every possibility, all of which you will be there to witness) yet utterly unable to interfere with the omnipotence of the UDA, which continues cranking out its various arithmetical possibilities through its own omnipotence, utterly oblivious of the subjectivity (ies) involved.

I'm looking forward to all of your responses for the pleasure of learning about this stuff...

Thanks for all being so smart and lucid, even when you do have opinions I don't necessarily agree with (looking at you, John Clark)

Cheers,

Dan

[Bruno Marchal]

On 09 Nov 2012, at 09:37, freqflyer07281972 wrote:

Dear Bruno and other loyal followers of the list,

I had a thought tonight -- half baked and somewhat vague, but nevertheless I thought relevant to your discussions here...

Is it not true, on the basis of what you laid out in Sane2004, that there is a necessarily inverse relationship between omnipotence and omniscience?

Yes. Above universality, or Löbianity, something like that happens. I just sent a post to Quentin which gives an hint, at least that some sort of omniscience, or just science/knowledge might be possible, but then only in a sufficiently disconnected form, above sharing computations. OK. It is vague, and as I understand it, it is only consistent with comp, but not necessary with it, or derivable from it.

For consider, the UDA, whatever it may be, has the infinite power to continue to crank out the algorithim. We, as admittedly self-consistent and yet ignorant of the fact of our self-consistency, have the ability to be omniscient (in the sense that we know the math that leads to our lack of omniscience and yet implies a universal unfolding of every possibility, all of which you will be there to witness)

Oh yes. Here you are using a more restricted notion of omniscience than the one I have taken just above. Your definition is closer to the one used in logic (the "knowledge of the consequences of our beliefs).

I guess you mean the UD (the universal dovetailer). the A is for Argument (based on the UD). Just a detail.

yet utterly unable to interfere with the omnipotence of the UDA, which continues cranking out its various arithmetical possibilities through its own omnipotence, utterly oblivious of the subjectivity (ies) involved.

OK. That makes sense. I think that what you say might be derivable from comp, and perhaps even more general. Already theologians have argued that a God knowing really everything could not have (free) will, nor real power. And I am not sure what could a God really know, in the case it has *all power*. 

The usual relation between power and knowledge might break above some threshold, where a more complex tradeoff might develop. 

Nice insight,

Bruno

I'm looking forward to all of your responses for the pleasure of learning about this stuff...

Thanks for all being so smart and lucid, even when you do have opinions I don't necessarily agree with (looking at you, John Clark)

Cheers,

Dan

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