Rupert Sheldrake - The Morphogenetic Universe

[Roger Clough]

Rupert Sheldrake - The Morphogenetic Universe

What is space ? There is no such thing as space, there are only fields,
which are mathematical structures.

What is matter ? There is no such thing as matter, because it is only a field.
There is no such thing as mass, which is why there is no such thing needed
as a Higgs field to form what we call mass. Hence we haven't found a Higgs
or field.

What causes a foetus to grow into a baby ? Is it DNA ? Biologists agree DNA does not do that.

If these questions puzzle or intrigue you, you might want to watch

Rupert Sheldrake's "The Morphogenetic Universe"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dm8-OpO9oQ

[Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net]
1/3/2013
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen

[Craig Weinberg]

On Thursday, January 3, 2013 1:14:15 PM UTC-5, rclough wrote:

Rupert Sheldrake - The Morphogenetic Universe

What is space ?  

Space is the experience of gaps between public presences, or alternatively the distance which can be measured of one object against another.
 

There is no such thing as space, there are only fields,
    which are mathematical structures.  

What's a mathematical structure? What is it made of? Fields too... aren't they really complete abstractions?
 

What is matter ?

Matter is the direct experience or indirect inference of public presences. It could be described also as an experience of an obstacle or obstructive invariance within a given range of sensory detection.
 

There is no such thing as matter, because it is only a field.
    There is no such thing as mass, which is why there is no such thing needed
    as a Higgs field to form what we call mass. Hence we haven't found a Higgs
    or field.

What causes a foetus to grow into a baby ? Is it DNA ? Biologists agree DNA does not do that.

Yes, this is the important question. A foetus, baby, and adult can be thought of as one continuous presence with different qualities.There are thousands of causes; physical, biological, zoological, anthropological...
 

[Roger Clough]

Hi Craig Weinberg

You're welcom to your views, which seem socially based, but
my views are no different than those of many modern physicists.


[Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net]
1/4/2013

"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Craig Weinberg
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2013-01-03, 13:39:09
Subject: Re: Rupert Sheldrake - The Morphogenetic Universe

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[Telmo Menezes]

Hi Roger,

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Roger Clough <rcl...@verizon.net> wrote:

 Rupert Sheldrake - The Morphogenetic Universe

What is space ?  There is no such thing as space, there are only fields,
    which are mathematical structures.

Fine.

 

What is matter ? There is no such thing as matter, because it is only a field.
    There is no such thing as mass, which is why there is no such thing needed
    as a Higgs field to form what we call mass. Hence we haven't found a Higgs
    or field.

Ok.

 

What causes a foetus to grow into a baby ? Is it DNA ? Biologists agree DNA does not do that.

This I have a problem with. Biologists agree on no such thing and they do have very compelling explanations for how morphogenesis works. As an aside, I find that someone using some variation of the phrase "all scientists agree" is a very bad sign.

I believe this results from an outdates view of the DNA as an inert blueprint. We now know that DNA is a computer program, capable of conditional execution based on inputs from the environment. Biologists call these mechanisms "gene regulatory networks":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_regulatory_network

The initial undifferentiated cell divides a number of times, and the accumulation of cells and their interactions eventually changes the environment in a way that triggers the expression of other segments of the genetic code.

 

If these questions puzzle or intrigue you, you might want to watch

Rupert Sheldrake's  "The Morphogenetic Universe"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dm8-OpO9oQ

[Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net]
1/3/2013
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen

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[Roger Clough]

Hi Telmo Menezes

All I can find on the web is that DNA only contains instructions to make
various biomolecules such as proteins, RNA, etc. It only works
on the molecular scale; the morphic fields are needed for larger
macrostructrures.

[Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net]
1/4/2013

"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content -----

From: Telmo Menezes
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2013-01-04, 03:51:54
Subject: Re: Rupert Sheldrake - The Morphogenetic Universe


Hi Roger,



On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Roger Clough wrote:

?upert Sheldrake - The Morphogenetic Universe

What is space ? ?here is no such thing as space, there are only fields,
? ? which are mathematical structures.



Fine.
?

What is matter ? There is no such thing as matter, because it is only a field.

? ? There is no such thing as mass, which is why there is no such thing needed
? ? as a Higgs field to form what we call mass. Hence we haven't found a Higgs
? ? or field.



Ok.
?

What causes a foetus to grow into a baby ? Is it DNA ? Biologists agree DNA does not do that.



This I have a problem with. Biologists agree on no such thing and they do have very compelling explanations for how morphogenesis works. As an aside, I find that someone using some variation of the phrase "all scientists agree" is a very bad sign.


I believe this results from an outdates view of the DNA as an inert blueprint. We now know that DNA is a computer program, capable of conditional execution based on inputs from the environment. Biologists call these mechanisms "gene regulatory networks":


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_regulatory_network

The initial?ndifferentiated?ell divides a number of times, and the accumulation of cells and their interactions eventually changes the environment in a way that triggers the expression of other segments of the genetic code.
?

If these questions puzzle or intrigue you, you might want to watch

Rupert Sheldrake's ?"The Morphogenetic Universe"

[Telmo Menezes]

Hi Roger,

On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 5:16 PM, Roger Clough <rcl...@verizon.net> wrote:

Hi Telmo Menezes

All I can find on the web is that DNA only contains instructions to make
various biomolecules such as proteins, RNA, etc.

That's enough. Proteins fold into complex 3D structures with very specific chemical affinities. They are capable of self-assembling into specific macro-structures. Here's a simulation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm-dAvbl330

There's a field of biology dedicated to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developmental_biology

[Roger Clough]

Hi Telmo Menezes

 

Thanks. But can such biomolecular structures

develop into a living cell ?

 

 

Sheldrake's morphisms all pertain to living entities.

 

Monads do also, except that for Leibniz, the whole

universe is alive.

 

 

 

[Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net]

1/5/2013

"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content -----

From: Telmo Menezes

Receiver: everything-list

Time: 2013-01-04, 16:57:26

Subject: Re: Re: Rupert Sheldrake - The Morphogenetic Universe

Hi Roger,

On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 5:16 PM, Roger Clough <rcl...@verizon.net> wrote:

Hi Telmo Menezes

All I can find on the web is that DNA only contains instructions to make
various biomolecules such as proteins, RNA, etc.

That's enough. Proteins fold into complex 3D structures with very specific chemical affinities. They are capable of self-assembling into specific macro-structures. Here's a simulation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm-dAvbl330

There's a field of biology dedicated to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developmental_biology

It only works
on the molecular scale; the morphic fields are needed for larger
macrostructrures.

�

[Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net]
1/4/2013
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Telmo Menezes
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2013-01-04, 03:51:54
Subject: Re: Rupert Sheldrake - The Morphogenetic Universe


Hi Roger,

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Roger Clough 爓rote:

[Telmo Menezes]

Hi Roger,

Hi Telmo Menezes

 

Thanks. But can such biomolecular structures

develop into a living cell ?

Current mainstream Biology believes that's the case. There isn't a complete model yet, but many pieces of the puzzle are already known. The current developmental theory is based on self-organisation processes. A cartoonish view of it would be that proteins are building blocks with highly specific affinities, so you can throw a bunch of them into the air and they will self-assembly into something more complex. This model is not just theoretical. Many cellular processes are known, and they all follow this principle. Effective drugs based on this model have been created.

Modelling and entire cell has not been achieved yet, as far as I know. I know of people who are trying. The main problem seems to be that it's terribly complex. We seem to be getting closer as available computing power increases. Unlike generic artificial intelligence, where no amount of computing power can make up for the fact that we don't fully understand the first principles.

If you don't mind a book recommendation:

http://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Order-Adaptation-Builds-Complexity/dp/0201442302/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1357476298&sr=8-4&keywords=hidden+order

This is one of the books that changed the way I see the world. It's a bit dated but I love it. I think you might like it too, because it's essentially applied philosophy.

 

 

 

Sheldrake's morphisms all pertain to living entities.

I listed to a few of the videos and I can't help but like the guy. I just think that he's wrong in claiming that we cannot explain morphogenesis without his field. That doesn't mean that he hasn't come across phenomena that challenge our current understandings of reality. But we have to keep a cool mind.

 

 

Monads do also, except that for Leibniz, the whole

universe is alive.

I have no problem with that idea.

[Roger Clough]

Hi Telmo Menezes

 

Could be, but so far no success.

 

 

[Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net]

1/6/2013

"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content -----

From: Telmo Menezes

Receiver: everything-list

Time: 2013-01-06, 07:51:49

Subject: Re:

[Richard Ruquist]

Hi Roger Clough,

The reason for this is that a hard problem theory doesn't have to
actually do anything, but a easy problem theory most certainly does.
Any hard problem theory will work just fine, any at all, but the
wrong easy problem theory will send a start-up company into
bankruptcy. So the end result is that being a hard problem theorist
is ridiculously easy but being a easy problem theorist is devilishly
hard, and that's why armchair philosophers concentrate on the one and
not the other.
Author unknown

[Roger Clough]

Hi Richard Ruquist

 

Neither hard or soft solutions are valid

since they fantasize a meterial connection between

mind and brain. Which is absurd.  

 

Leibniz is the only one to have solved the problem successfully.

 

 

[Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net]

1/7/2013

"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content -----

From: Richard Ruquist

Receiver: everything-list

Time: 2013-01-07, 09:39:36

Subject: Re: Re:

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